Nukes and Peace: Hiroshima, 61 Years Later
Over the weekend, the 61st anniversary of the dropping of an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, and subsequently Nagasaki, was observed. It’s common, as Hiroshima’s mayor did this year, to mark the anniversary with a call for a nuclear-free world.
In 2006, when you say “Fat Man and Little Boy,” you could be referring to Michael Moore and George Stephanopoulos, but 61 years ago, devices sporting those seemingly innocuous monikers caused historically unmatched destruction, and ended a long war.
With each passing anniversary of the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan comes the inevitable question: “Was it necessary?”
Our opinion of what is “necessary” is often subject to our personal proximity to the danger, and since so many of us weren’t even alive in 1945, it’s easy to debate that question without the pressures of the moment. Harry Truman and company didn’t have such a luxury.
Isn’t it strange that you don’t often see polls or debates on whether or not it was “necessary” to attack Pearl Harbor in 1941?
Should the atom bomb have been first dropped as a demonstration of its power, such as on a remote island or isolated military base? If you’re somebody who thinks a “demonstration” would have made Japan surrender, think about it for a minute. Japan didn’t even surrender after the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and instantly killed tens of thousands of their citizens. Do you really think blowing up a rock pile somewhere in the Pacific would have made Japan’s leadership throw their hands in the air and wave the white flag?
Rational people who figure their enemy is also rational could be making a lethal assumption.
As you would expect, many of the critics of Truman’s decision are right here in the United States. After all, it can be easy for anti-war Americans to point the finger at the United States when it comes to civilian death in war. The United States has been lucky. With the exception of 9-11, civilian deaths on the mainland America due to enemy action have been minimal. The geographic location of the United States made it tough for enemies of America to stage strikes on its soil. This isn’t due to lack of desire, but rather lack of ability.
Heavy criticism of America’s bombing of civilians implies that their World War II enemies instead focused on military rather than civilian targets (don’t tell that to the victims of the rape of Nanking or the other millions of Chinese civilians killed in the second Sino-Japanese War, or British victims of Germany’s Blitzkrieg), but the United States doesn’t return the favor. Enemies of America were so honorable that, for example, if Japanese leadership discovered that the USS Arizona were filled with Cub Scouts shortly after ordering “Tora Tora Tora,” the attack would have been aborted. Sure.
Because of this, the U.S. critic may find it easy to look at the incendiary attacks on Dresden, carpet bombings on German and Japanese cities, and the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki – millions of civilian casualties in all – and assume the United States was unfairly advantaged because Japan and Germany were unable to return the favor to Joe Sixpack in Boston, Los Angeles and Paducah. American success in World War II violated the tenet of leftist philosophy: fairness. They’ve read and seen “Failsafe” so much that the only acceptable final ending to the U.S.-Japan war would have been for Henry Fonda to order American planes to nuke New York.
In World War II, as far as nations go, the good guys won, and the bad guys lost. Period. Basing historical judgment of wars purely on its kindness, or lack thereof, to civilians, is like searching for anthill-friendly steamrollers.
For the most part, the good guys have nukes, and the bad guys don’t. We need to keep it that way, even by using the threat of, you guessed it, nuclear annihilation.
The mayor of Hiroshima calling for a “nuclear-free world” is a lovely consideration. Now if somebody can invent a time machine and travel back to 1930 we can fulfill his wish.
Until then, let’s allow nukes to remain a terrific deterrent to anybody seeking a repeat of imperial Japan’s dream of global domination. Nuclear weapons were used against human beings in 1945, and haven’t been used since. Whether or not they are ever unleashed again is up to the bad guys, not the good guys.
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August 7th, 2006 at 7:43 am
Nice, but remember there really was no civilians in Japan. One of the reasons to drop the bombs was the fact that every Japanese would have been armed to help ‘defend’ against an invasion. After freeing the occupied islands in the pacific and having almost 60% casualties the estimates of how many would have died, on both sides, in an invasion of Japan was a lot higher that those that died in the two bomb attacks.
Again real facts and history do not jive with anti-american leftist thought.
August 7th, 2006 at 9:34 am
It’s so easy to blame Truman for the atomic holocaust. After all, nuclear weapons are messy and horrible. Myself, being close of the Japanese community of Montreal, I can easily understand their points when the Mayor of Hiroshima ask for a “Nuclear-Free World” and I trully hope it will happend one day.
This being said, it is easy to cast blame on the Americans for those who don’t know the full extend of the situation at that time.
First, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were two legitimate military targets. Hiroshima was a logistic center, Nagasaki had dry-docks facilities. Can anyone imagine the mess that could had been unleashed if the U.S. had made the choice of bombing Tokyo or Kyoto(one of the first chosen target)? They could have tried to decapitate the Japanese high command at a high cost in civilian life, they din’t.
The second point is quite disturbing. I had the honor of hearing a elder of the Japanese community talking about the war. In 1945, she was twelve. One day, a millitary officer came during a phisical exercice class and taught them how to kill a G.I. with a sharp bamboo pole. This is what the U.S. troops were about to face; a war of Annihillation by the Japanese people. As if it wasen’t enough, the U.S.S.R. army was also about to invade Japan on their side. This would had spelled the end of Japanese culture as we know it and a bloddy war on all the sides that would had costed millions of lives.
Yes nuclear weapons are horrible, but so is war. War is not fair, the best way to win one is to throw more crap to the enemy than he throw at you, period. Thinking otherwise is pure fantasy.
August 7th, 2006 at 10:04 am
Great points, Doug.
Anyone trying to dispute whether the atomic bombings of Japan were “necessary” ought to do a bit of research into the historical context of 1945’s Pacific Theatre, paying particularly close attention to Operation Downfall, not to mention Imperial Japanese own plans to strike mainland U.S., not to mention Japanese behavior during the war, particularly in their defensive tactics and treatment of Allied POW’s.
Operation Downfall, the invasion of the home Japanese islands consisted of two components:
Operation Olympic: November 1, 1945. Invasion of Southern Kyushu to provide a large base for naval and air forces within range of Tokyo.
Operation Coronet: March 1, 1946. Invasion of Central Honshu and Tokyo.
An overview of Operation Downfall can be found at:
http://www.ww2pacific.com/downfall.html
I would not dream of trying to lay out all arguments supporting our use of the atomic bomb to force an Imperial Japanese surrender in one post, but I will point out the following:
- Japanese defensive tactics involved kamikaze attacks by plane and boat that would have guaranteed heavy Allied casualties in the event of an invasion of the main Japanese islands, as evidenced at Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
- Unlike other nations, Japanese military and “civilian” personnel were expected to fight to the death, and most of them did, whenever they engaged Allied forces in the Pacific Theatre.
- Japanese treatment of tens of thousands of Allied POW’s, already brutal, was about to get worse in 1945, as Imperial Japanese military units stationed in mainland Asian nations were being recalled to Japan for a last stand, taking all available food supplies with them.
In context, they clearly planned to execute those Allied POW’s in their hands since they could not feed them, could not move them, and would not free them.
Those men who were taken prisoner, suffering untold cruelty already at the hands of sadistic Japanese guards deserved a chance at life too.
As ecotim pointed out, even Japanese “civilians” were expected to engage any invasion forces, even to use bamboo spears to attack Allied military personnel.
And they had at their disposal 1,000 Kaiten manned torpedoes. The Japanese Army had 800 Shinyo suicide boats.
- In March 1945, there was only one combat division in Kyushu. Over the next four months the Japanese Army transferred forces from Manchuria, Korea, and northern Japan, while raising other forces in place. By August, they had fourteen divisions and various smaller formations, including three tank brigades, for a total of 900,000 men.
The Japanese were able to raise large numbers of new soldiers, but equipping them was harder. By August, the Japanese Army had the equivalent of 65 divisions in the homeland, but only enough equipment for 40, and only enough ammunition for 30.
In addition, the Japanese had organized nearly all adult civilians into the Patriotic Citizens Fighting Corps to perform combat support, and ultimately combat jobs.
Weapons and training were generally lacking, but they were expected to make do with what they had.
A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson’s staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7–4 million American casualties, including 400,000–800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities.
Nearly 500,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured in anticipation of the casualties resulting from the invasion of Japan.
As of 2005, all the American military casualties of the following sixty years—including the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf Wars—have not exhausted that stockpile yet.
http://www.answers.com/topic/operation-downfall
Clearly, the use of atomic bombs to force the surrender of Imperial Japan was actually humane in comparison with the massive bloodshed that Operation Downfall would have entailed.
When a captured Nazi U-boat arrived at Portsmouth, N.H., toward the end of World War II, the American public was never told the significance of what was on board.
The German submarine was carrying 1,200 pounds of uranium oxide, an ingredient for an atomic bomb, bound for Japan.
Two Japanese officers on board were allowed to commit suicide.
By most accounts, Japan’s wartime atomic bomb efforts were headed by Yoshio Nishina, who had earlier worked in Copenhagen, Denmark, with atomic pioneer Niels Bohr.
Clearly Imperial Japan made their own efforts to create atomic bombs.
That the Allies, led by the American beat them to it can only be considered good fortune.
http://vikingphoenix.com/public/JapanIncorporated/1895-1945/jp-abomb.htm
August 7th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
Fourthwire, I was impressed until I realized your post was copied and pasted directly from wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall
Stealing others’ work is pretty low.
If you don’t want to be called a liberal, don’t do what they do.
August 7th, 2006 at 7:33 pm
“Fourthwire, I was impressed until I realized your post was copied and pasted directly from wikipedia.”
Hal, visit a proctologist if your head is jammed TOO tightly in your digestive tract.
As the matter of fact, I most certainly did NOT cut-and-paste from wikipedia.org.
I cut-and-pasted ONLY from the three sources that I provided.
Either wikipedia.org quoted from answers.com or vice versa.
Rise up off your knuckles, stop your apparently never-ending research into why those beer bottles will not crush flat on your brow, and have someone a bit brighter than you help you to access http://www.answers.com/topic/operation-downfall
“If you don’t want to be called a liberal, don’t do what they do.”
And if you don’t enjoy being teased for your low IQ, then try checking the sources that I provided…….
….. or have someone who HAS managed to earn their GED do it for you.
Let me repeat from one of our last exchanges:
I am not a “conservative”.
I am not a “liberal”.
I am apparently just quite a bit brighter than you are, Hal.
Get used to the idea, since you don’t seem to be what I consider to be “a quick learner”….;-)
August 8th, 2006 at 3:51 am
Get used to the idea, since you don’t seem to be what I consider to be “a quick learnerâ€â€¦.;-)
Now that’s just harsh. I was so hoping you would think I was a quick learner.
Does the cute little winky-face make you think you’re not being vitriolic?
The point was – you took other peoples work without saying it wasn’t yours. Jayson Blair redux? He was most definitely a liberal. As for calling you a liberal, what you claim you are means nothing. Liberals are liars, who will say or do anything to score points. On this point you stand out quite brightly (way brighter than I, as you so wittily said).
August 8th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
“Now that’s just harsh. I was so hoping you would think I was a quick learner.”
Want another banana, Sean….. ooops, I meant “Hal”?….;-)
“Does the cute little winky-face make you think you’re not being vitriolic?”
Consider the “cute little winky-face” a visual cue for you to knuckle-walk over to the nearest human and ask for assistance, since its presence means that I’m likely teasing you about your IQ, once again.
“The point was – you took other peoples work without saying it wasn’t yours.”
Thank you, my cognitvely-challenged gelding – your “concern” has been duly noted….. and provided with the appropriate level of derision.
Why do you believe that I provided the three links with information about Operation Downfall, in the appropriate sections of my post, my GED candidate?….;-)
Are you once again demonstrating how “incredibly complicated” discussion board technology is a bit beyond your grasp?
Take a break from staring cross-eyed in confusion at the heap of broken glass from those brown bottles that absolutely REFUSE to crush flat on your protruding brow………
…… and ask your mommy why I would provide those links (of which none were wikipedia.org).
“As for calling you a liberal, what you claim you are means nothing.”
Sort of how describing you as “sentient” or “able to walk upright” would mean nothing?…;-)
“Liberals are liars, who will say or do anything to score points. ”
“liberals” CAN BE liars, “conservatives” CAN BE liars, and individuals of any ideological or political persuasion that you care to have pointed out to you CAN BE liars.
Have any nearby human take you by the paw, and explain those little realities to you.
And if you had more than three working grey cells and a dry diaper even you might be able to work out those little details on your own.
“On this point you stand out quite brightly (way brighter than I, as you so wittily said).”
Unless you happen to spent time knuckle-walking alone in a quarry, I suspect that you have very little experience at “standing out quite brightly”, Hal…….;-)
On a more positive note though…… you give every indication of running neck-and-neck with Sean in that regard……;-)
August 8th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
You had links. Okay. You still copied someone else’s work without giving them credit. You are a plagiarist, and you have a superiority complex that can only be explained by being either a) still young and stupid, and/or b) a liberal.
Not to mention the fact it takes you hundreds of words to say nothing outside of a few insults (notwithstanding what you steal and paste, which doesn’t count). Your intelligence isn’t measured by how many words you use. Too bad for you. It would be better for you to lay low and just let people think you’re a nut, than for you to keep proving it.
As for Sean, he is a liberal, with a huge superiority complex, who believes all women are whores. Sound familiar? He also spent much time name-calling, which is likely caused by latent homosexuality, but who knows? Maybe you can help him make up his mind.
P.S. Google your quotes and they pop up on wikipedia. It’s an “encyclopedia” edited by people like you. Amazingly smart people. Way smarter than anyone else. I’m not surprised you managed to get a GED. Now if only the grocery store in your neighborhood would start hiring baggers. You’d have it made.
August 8th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
“You had links. Okay. You still copied someone else’s work without giving them credit.”
LOL…… if I wanted to deny anyone of “credit”, why would I have provided the relevant links, Sean….. ooops, I mean Hal?
“You are a plagiarist,”
Have your mommy explain to you the ACTUAL nature of “plagiarism”, in between your attempts to crush brown bottles flat on your protruding brow, Sean……. (darn, same mistake again!).
“and you have a superiority complex that can only be explained by being either a) still young and stupid, and/or b) a liberal.”
Hal, drooling cretins like yourself could give anyone slightly brighter than a bucket of pond water “a superiority complex”, as I have explained before.
“Not to mention the fact it takes you hundreds of words to say nothing outside of a few insults (notwithstanding what you steal and paste, which doesn’t count).”
Sour grapes, Hal…… learn to walk upright without resting on your knuckles or tail, don’t mention your fear of feminists, or practice deep-throating bananas in public and perhaps more humans would stop laughing at you.
“Your intelligence isn’t measured by how many words you use.”
And your intelligence isn’t measured by the number of brown bottles around your paws, Bonzo.
“It would be better for you to lay low and just let people think you’re a nut, than for you to keep proving it.”
Hal, why would anyone with an IQ above double digits take advice from anything whose eyes cross with the effort required to shamble forward on two legs?
“As for Sean, he is a liberal, with a huge superiority complex, who believes all women are whores.”
Sean and you are both double-threats: ball-less as well as brainless.
“He also spent much time name-calling, which is likely caused by latent homosexuality, but who knows? Maybe you can help him make up his mind.”
I suspect that you’re closer to him than ever, my fuzzy Rhodes Scholar, whether you spit OR swallow…;-)
“P.S. Google your quotes and they pop up on wikipedia.”
P.S. But read the links I provided and you don’t HAVE TO google my quotes, my thick-browed genetic throwback.
“It’s an “encyclopedia†edited by people like you.”
It’s certainly not edited by abject geniuses like yourself…..;-)
“I’m not surprised you managed to get a GED.”
I’m not surprised that you haven’t, my tailed wonder.
“Now if only the grocery store in your neighborhood would start hiring baggers. You’d have it made.”
Now if only you can convert your bruised tonsils and knees into a a cash flow, you would have it made, Bonzo…..;-)
August 8th, 2006 at 6:03 pm
I must tend to my children, and my horses. Have fun being an idiot child, Homer.
August 8th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
Your horses? Boy how many wives you got?
Fourthwire is right; you are a yokel. Anyone who is clueless enough to think that hyperlinks don’t constitute giving authors credit (rather than listing a full text bibliography) ought to stick to shoveling horse manure rather than trying to spread it around where it don’t belong.
Simply providing points of reference to elicit intelligent discussion on a subject is far from claiming that the thoughts he stated are his own exclusive intellectual property.
If ya’ll wanna instigate a real verbal throw down I suggest ya’ll come better prepared next time.
P.S.; watch out for that thar Bessie; she kicks sumthin fierce.
August 8th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
“I must tend to my children, and my horses.”
You don’t have to report on your activities, my bruised-tonsilled “genius”.
Have fun being an idiot child, Homer.
Have fun spitting…. or swallowing, whichever you prefer, Bonzo…..;-)
August 8th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
Whoops….. forgot to “give you credit” (and I wouldn’t want you to start menstruating on THAT account!….;-))
My previous post should read:
“Have fun being an idiot child, Homer.”
Have fun spitting…. or swallowing, whichever you prefer, Bonzo…..;-)
August 9th, 2006 at 8:01 am
Isn’t that cute? Homer cloned himself.
So anyone with horses is a yokel? Funny. After I retired from Goddard I thought I’d gotten past that yokel thing. Well Homer thinks I am one, so I’ll just sell my horses, and do what an idiot child thinks I should. And you are a plagiarist. If you’d actually graduated from anything you would’ve been taught the meaning of the word.
P.S. You’re right. A horse can kick very hard. They can also run very fast. Especially thoroughbreds.
August 9th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
I am going to go out on a limb here and conclude that by Goddard you are referring to the Liberal Arts College and not the Space Flight Center; I would hope a rocket scientist would be able to come up with something better than the tired old retort of, “ifn’ you had gradumerated from sumfin.â€
I mean you couldn’t come up with anything more original like, “Yo mama”?