Evangelical feminism a new path to liberalism, book says

DWG

About ten years ago I very successfully completed training to be a missionary. I wouldn’t accept their ideas of feminism and psychology, so it didn’t work out. It destroyed my family. I will continue to fight this battle till I die.

The evidence for God is, that everywhere in the world, now and wherever we dig up old civilizations, people searched for the gods.

The evidence for how God thinks and feels is something you pick up, when you read scriptures; it is mostly in story form, like a father would tell to his family around the camp fire at night, to teach them about God. The scriptures give us clues about the different ways he thinks and feels about things. The NIV translation makes the stories come alive. Too many theologians think God is impassive, without feeling. But that is their personal preference, probably out of Greek philosophy. I think when God tells us how he thinks feels about different situations, he is trying to help us learn how to think and feel the same way. We were created in his image.

chas –

You speak about God the way I would talk about my nextdoor neighbor.

I see him every day and we make small talk.

How is it that you have achieved this level of intimacy with an abstraction?

You do seem to know a lot about what God feels, though the evidence is entirely subjective, yes?

I will contrast three explanations of what the bible says about the way men relate to women.

First, is the egalitarianism, the feminists saying we are all equal. Second, is the complementarian, saying the differences between men and women are part of the original creation.
Third, my position is that the world is under curses. Both the second and third positions consider the feminism to be a part of the current apostasy of US churches. The second views the danger of feminism, as a loss of orthodoxy. The third, mine, views the danger of feminism, as a loss of social order.

The first view, feminists attempt to achieve egalitarianism by asking, “Who is supposed to be equal?” and “In what respect are they supposed to be equal?” – Wikipedia

The second view, Wayne Grudem and other complementarians, believe that men and women are of equal worth, and are both equally created in the image of God, but have distinct roles in church, home and society, and as a whole view women’s roles in ministry, particularly in church settings, as limited to one extent or another; also is primarily concerned with how the feminists are breaking all the rules Evangelicals have always used to understand and explain the scriptures, and will reshape Christianity, with the danger of taking it down the road to liberalism. – Wikipedia

The third view, the world is under curses, is my way of taking the simplist common sense way of reading what the bible stories said to the people to whom they were originally written, without any agenda of modern or theological sunglasses. While I agree with Wayne Grudem about the danger of feminists causing a loss of orthodoxy, I see a much greater danger in it being a loss of social order. What I understand about the first two views to be correct, is that the scriptures, are the best explanation, for everything in the world. Our humanity is in the image of God. Humans are primarily in relationships all their lives. This is not from an evil source. It is from God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is an equality about the trinity, three separate persons, who are one God in unity. The feminists are saying we are all equal, because we were all created in the image of God, and I totally agree. The problem is that the feminists don’t face the reality that were not in paradise any more, Toto.

Moses writings are the best explanation a father can give to his son to explain the contradictions of being part of a seemingly wonderful creation that is totally screwed up. There are many screwed up things in he world that must never be attributed to God’s original handiwork. The simple reading about the fall and subsequent curses are the best explanations for why many things don’t reflect God’s image or handiwork. We have a sense that God should be here, but God doesn’t seem to be around any more, and that bothers us. We do things that harm God and harm other people and must be restrained while others impose justice. We are ripped apart with grief when someone close to us is lost to death; we have a sense that we shouldn’t die, but we all end up dying. We, especially men, have found our work to be oppresive, and most parts of the world have suffered as slave labor; we have the sense that it shouldn’t be this way, but we all end up suffering. Women have found bearing children to be painful, they have the sense that it shouldn’t be this way, but they all suffer. Women everywhere in the world are under mens authority, but they have the sense they should be equal, and they all suffer. Men everywhere in the world go to war, but we all have the sense that everyone should get along and there should be world peace, but we all are from different tribes, and we all suffer war. The simplist explanation for these all these things is that the world is under curses, described by Moses. God has pronounced many blessings and curses, throughout the scripture. All of them are still binding our world, to bring social order, until God speaks again to release them.

We sense that God should be around but he isn’t; the best explanation for this is that humanity has ”fallen” away from God, but still deep down has a memory, miss how it used to be, and wants to feel close to God again.

People gain power are oppressive commit great genocides and must be stopped. All our communities become blighted with street gangs and poverty if we don’t fight back. There is a difference between the spirit behind a dog, and the spirit behind a cobra, that must be explained. The best explanation for these things, is they are not all in God’s image, or part of his handiwork; our world has been attacked by evil forces and there is a battle between good and evil forces for dominance.

There are many things that are not a part of God’s original handiwork, blessings and curses, that are God’s way of restraining evil; they are the best explanation a father can give his son of why we live in a messed up world, and why we understand it shouldn’t be that way. Everyone has to die, so that evil people will not endlessly oppress people. Moses explained that God had shortened our life span from 1000 years, to 120 years, to 70 years, so that evil people do not endlessly oppress people. The flood was a curse from God, to end a whole generation of evil people, who filled God’s heart with pain, while saving one family to start over. The curse of Babel is the best explanation for why the world is divided into tribes, who endlessly war with each other, but have the sense, we should all get along and should have world peace; God uses this curse to break apart the dominance of evil superpowers, who he breaks apart into ethnic bickering, and a harmful tribe can be restrained by surrounding tribes. Another curse is the dread wild beasts have of us, but we have the sense we should be close to them. Another curse is the death penalty, whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, but we have the sense it shouldn’t be this way.

One of the first curses, is the simple statement to Eve, “he will rule over you.”” It is the best explanation, you can give to your son of why, every where in the world, men dominate women, but we all have the sense we should be equal. The feminist idea that we are equal, which I totally agree with, is theologically based on being created in God’s image, is absolutely true, and we all have deep down that memory of how things should be. “In the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.” “Adam had a son in his own likeness and image, and he named him Seth,” what love, what unity, what intimacy, what faithfulness. But were not in paradise any more Toto. There are very real world social order reasons, once women had the ability to disagee with their husbands, for God to impose this curse, “he will rule over you,” to restrain evil and to keep unity between men and women. While I agree with Wayne Grudem that thie feminists are losing their orthodoxy and heading down the road to liberalism, I see the much greater danger of feminists pretending they are no longer under this curse, is that they will end up in socital chaos. “Love is all you need” has been Christianized into, “if you love your wife you won’t expect her to obey you.” God has PLAN A: love, and PLAN B: obey. Your lives will be in chaos without both. Women and gays, with their illigimate civil-rights struggle, have followed the blacks in their legitament civil-rights struggle; the more serious problem, of women crusading for equality, saying “we shall overcome,” is that they are not fighting against men, they are fighting against a curse placed on our world by God, a curse certain as death. Not one of God’s curses, described by Moses, has been abrogated; they are all fully in effect. All the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles, are very careful to maintain this social order of, “he will rule over you,” in the their teachings about the family and the Church. Just read the plain common sense meaning, of what the Apostles wrote, and what it meant to the people to whom it was written. Ignore it to your own peril.

mruffalo wrote:
“Willow Creek is rated as one of the top most influential churches in America by they the media.”

Any time the media holds something in high esteem, it’s a red flag to rational, objective people that it is highly suspect.

It says right there in the Bible that elders cannot be women. Call it sexist, but if they believe in the Bible, they believe in that. Otherwise, they believe in something else — and that’s fine too (the 1st Amendment supports religious freedom) — except they should overtly say they reject the Bible.

I personally am an objectivist, believing in the power of the individual. The tenets of my beliefs are such that I believe man is an end in himself, not an means to the ends of others. Now if you saw me willingly living as a miserable slave in support of a financial or emotional parasite, that’s a red flag that I don’t follow my purported beliefs. So it is with your experience with the supposedly Christian church with female elders.

mruffalo further wrote:
“Though I attended the church for three years, at first I did not notice there bias against men…”

If you examine the teaching and compare it to the way it is implemented, that right there is a red flag that something is wrong. You may have been judging this church in the eyes of popular culture. And how often has popular culture let men down, as a gender?

John Dias
Founder, DontMakeHerMad.com

This is old news. My former church, Willow Creek Community Church, build a membership of 10,000 with Zondervan Publishing House help.

Willow Creek has had women elders since its founding in 1978. Though I attended the church for three years, at first I did not notice there bias against men, until I asked for help.

Willow Creek is rated as one of the top most influential churches in America by they the media.

Susan Olasky wrote about the churches feminist approach in 1997 for World Magazine in an article ‘Femme fatale: The feminist seduction of the evangelical church: The New International Version of the Bible–the best-selling English version in the world–is quietly going “gender-neutral”‘

Bill Hybles the founder was Bill Clinton’s preacher for eight years.

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns/fbns464.html

http://www.zondervan.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hybels