Seeds of dissolution, Benjamin Franklin

2006-12-06

… as some physicians say every animal body brings into the world among its original stamina the seeds of that disease that shall finally produce its dissolution, so the political body of a … government contains those convulsive principles that will at length destroy it.

- Benjamin Franklin, “Cool Thoughts on the Present Situation of Public Affairs, 1763

Liberty Letters Comment: Why did I post this one? Simply, there is a movement afoot, especially among Libertarians, that criticizes the U.S. Constitution, simply the best Constitution ever written, in favor of a return to the anarchy of the Articles of Confederation, and they support this insanity by quoting various of the writers of the Anti-Federalist faction as to the dangers of centralized power. Okay, sure, centralized power is dangerous, but so is anarchy, or the lawlessness of that very Articles of Confederation that made it all too easy for all of the states, save one, to neglect payment on loans to Europe, thus inviting weakness abroad, provocation for war, resentment and divisions within the colonies (by those who have paid for those who haven’t), and so forth – a formula for disaster. Truth is, prior to that loan fiasco, the U.S. soldiers were not paid as promised, and literally marched on Congress, and may have overthrown the government in favor of a military dictatorship, if not stopped by George Washington. You see, this is what anarchy produces, always has, always will, and so why do so many thinking people trust such insane analysis?
America’s problem never was, and is not now, her Constitution – which I declare is inspired (especially for its divisions of power) – but her lack of vigilance among the governed on moral and political issues. This problem is possible under any system that permits the people to govern, and is thus the seed of a republic’s dissolution, reliance on people, people who are unstable, unpredictable, immoral, traitorous, etc. Nevertheless, let the people rule, if they are virtuous they will prosper – but after they prosper, they will become proud and immoral, and after they become proud and immoral, lax, and after they become lax … well … then they are well on the road to losing their liberties, and then a certain class among the Libertarians of the world can claim that life would have been better with no government at all, and that we ought to return to the Articles of Confederation as a step along the way to their blessed anarchy. Funny, Marx promised no government too.

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fhalskdfh

Dear Mr Ferrel,

You are entirely off the mark. The AoC had a few flaws, yes, and these were supposed to be corrected by the Constitutional Convention. However, the Federalists-instead of doing their duty in amending the AoC-created a whole new Constitution and a highly centralized State (all without input from the Anti-Federalists who were locked out of the proceedings, plus Jefferson was in France at the time). DiLorenzo expands on this well in his book “Hamilton’s Curse”.
fhalskdfh

Dear Mr Ferrel,

You are entirely off the mark. The AoC had a few flaws, yes, and these were supposed to be corrected by the Constitutional Convention. However, the Federalists-instead of doing their duty in amending the AoC-created a whole new Constitution and a highly centralized State (all without input from the Anti-Federalists who were locked out of the proceedings, plus Jefferson was in France at the time). DiLorenzo expands on this well in his book “Hamilton’s Curse”.
fhalskdfh

Dear Mr Ferrel,

You are entirely off the mark. The AoC had a few flaws, yes, and these were supposed to be corrected by the Constitutional Convention. However, the Federalists-instead of doing their duty in amending the AoC-created a whole new Constitution and a highly centralized State (all without input from the Anti-Federalists who were locked out of the proceedings, plus Jefferson was in France at the time). DiLorenzo expands on this well in his book “Hamilton’s Curse”.
http://www.geocities.com/graymada HalcyonKing

One person, One vote is “wrong on principle and mischievous in its consequences.” –Michael McConnell

“A Republic, if you can keep it,” was the answer Benjamin Franklin gave to a Mrs. Powel, when asked whether the Constitutional Convention had produced a Republic or a Monarchy. A Republic–not a Monarchy. A Republic–not a democracy or a rule by simple majority. Regarding democracy, the founders ranked it among the worst forms of government. As Alexander Hamilton put it during the Constitutional Convention, “real liberty is [not] found in . . . the extremes of Democracy.” A Republican form of government was so important to the framers–that it was guaranteed to the States by Article 4, Section 4, which states, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a republican form of government. . .”
http://www.geocities.com/graymada HalcyonKing

One person, One vote is “wrong on principle and mischievous in its consequences.” –Michael McConnell

“A Republic, if you can keep it,” was the answer Benjamin Franklin gave to a Mrs. Powel, when asked whether the Constitutional Convention had produced a Republic or a Monarchy. A Republic–not a Monarchy. A Republic–not a democracy or a rule by simple majority. Regarding democracy, the founders ranked it among the worst forms of government. As Alexander Hamilton put it during the Constitutional Convention, “real liberty is [not] found in . . . the extremes of Democracy.” A Republican form of government was so important to the framers–that it was guaranteed to the States by Article 4, Section 4, which states, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a republican form of government. . .”
http://www.geocities.com/graymada HalcyonKing

One person, One vote is “wrong on principle and mischievous in its consequences.” –Michael McConnell

“A Republic, if you can keep it,” was the answer Benjamin Franklin gave to a Mrs. Powel, when asked whether the Constitutional Convention had produced a Republic or a Monarchy. A Republic–not a Monarchy. A Republic–not a democracy or a rule by simple majority. Regarding democracy, the founders ranked it among the worst forms of government. As Alexander Hamilton put it during the Constitutional Convention, “real liberty is [not] found in . . . the extremes of Democracy.” A Republican form of government was so important to the framers–that it was guaranteed to the States by Article 4, Section 4, which states, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a republican form of government. . .”
http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/steve-farrell/ Steve Farrell

Absolutely correct, Will. This is surely part of the corruption that has occurred, that we have voted to ourselves. We have moved away from a true republic (a government of laws – John Adams definition), to a democracy (which always ends up with socialism). I’m of the opinion that a significant step to slow this process down and perhaps reverse it would be to repeal the 17th Amendment.

Several of the Founders warned in the Constitutional Convention, in essence: “If the time ever comes that both houses of Congress are elected directly by the people, immediately schemes for the redistribution of the wealth shall arise.” Their aim of the Founders was to make the Senate a statesmen-like check on pure democracy, as you know.

Thus, we might call another seed of dissolution, therefore, the amendment clause, when used unwisely.
http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/steve-farrell/ Steve Farrell

Absolutely correct, Will. This is surely part of the corruption that has occurred, that we have voted to ourselves. We have moved away from a true republic (a government of laws – John Adams definition), to a democracy (which always ends up with socialism). I’m of the opinion that a significant step to slow this process down and perhaps reverse it would be to repeal the 17th Amendment.

Several of the Founders warned in the Constitutional Convention, in essence: “If the time ever comes that both houses of Congress are elected directly by the people, immediately schemes for the redistribution of the wealth shall arise.” Their aim of the Founders was to make the Senate a statesmen-like check on pure democracy, as you know.

Thus, we might call another seed of dissolution, therefore, the amendment clause, when used unwisely.
http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/steve-farrell/ Steve Farrell

Absolutely correct, Will. This is surely part of the corruption that has occurred, that we have voted to ourselves. We have moved away from a true republic (a government of laws – John Adams definition), to a democracy (which always ends up with socialism). I’m of the opinion that a significant step to slow this process down and perhaps reverse it would be to repeal the 17th Amendment.

Several of the Founders warned in the Constitutional Convention, in essence: “If the time ever comes that both houses of Congress are elected directly by the people, immediately schemes for the redistribution of the wealth shall arise.” Their aim of the Founders was to make the Senate a statesmen-like check on pure democracy, as you know.

Thus, we might call another seed of dissolution, therefore, the amendment clause, when used unwisely.
http://houstonconservative.com Will Malven

True words Steve. I fear we are rapidly approaching that point as described in the quote that has been attributed to Alexander Tytler, but is now in doubt as to authorship.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury.”

Juvenal stated it more succinctly in his work Satires:

“The people that once bestowed commands, consulships, legions, and all else, now concerns itself no more, and longs eagerly for just two things – bread and circuses!”
http://houstonconservative.com Will Malven

True words Steve. I fear we are rapidly approaching that point as described in the quote that has been attributed to Alexander Tytler, but is now in doubt as to authorship.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury.”

Juvenal stated it more succinctly in his work Satires:

“The people that once bestowed commands, consulships, legions, and all else, now concerns itself no more, and longs eagerly for just two things – bread and circuses!”
http://houstonconservative.com Will Malven

True words Steve. I fear we are rapidly approaching that point as described in the quote that has been attributed to Alexander Tytler, but is now in doubt as to authorship.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury.”

Juvenal stated it more succinctly in his work Satires:

“The people that once bestowed commands, consulships, legions, and all else, now concerns itself no more, and longs eagerly for just two things – bread and circuses!”

Seeds of dissolution, Benjamin Franklin

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