This post over at Bill’s Comments offers his comments on the nuclear Iran scenario. His first point is that it doesn’t look like we’re going to do anything to prevent it.
It has now become obvious that the Western world will not take the necessary measures to stop Iran from building a nuclear weapon. In fact, I think that Iran will build many nuclear weapons. I do not mean so-called dirty bombs, but true fission devices with large kiloton yields. The thinking is just like al-Qaida, create a large, intimidating effect. A dirty bomb would not do that.
And how many people really believe Iran, once it has nukes, won’t use them?
Iran has as its goal the destruction of Israel and the United States. They are our publically declared enemy whether we wish to deal with or not. So far we are doing next to nothing to deal with it, and by the time we do decide to deal with it, it will be too late.
Iran won’t stop at building and testing one nuke. Expect ten or more. And then:
Smuggle 2 or 3 of the weapons to Palestine and give them to Hezbollah to mount on short-to-medium range missiles. Those will be used to hit Tel Aviv and any other sites in Israel except Jerusalem. (Remember Jerusalem is holy to Muslims as well as Jews and Christians.) The remaining weapons will be smuggled into the US via Canada or Mexico. They will need no delivery system, a van will do the job.
In the US the targets will be New York, Washington, D.C., the Pentagon, Chicago, New Orleans, San Francisco, and either Los Angeles or San Diego. I am thinking in terms of two ideas, symbols and decapitation. The feudal thought processes of jihadists think that if the leaders are killed, then the followers are helpless. If they remove our leadership, Washington and the Pentagon, then we will be helpless. New York is a symbol and is also our financial capital. Chicago and New Orleans are the two biggest shipping and transport centers in the middle of the US. San Francisco is symbolic, and San Diego or Los Angeles are the two main Pacific centers for shipping.
This will do serious damage to all those cities. But what it knocks out won’t be America’s will to act, it will be the forces that have been putting the brakes on America’s actions. The State Department, for example, will be pretty much gone. Media concentrations in New York, Washington, and on the East Coast will be seriously damaged if not destroyed. Papers like the Minneapolis Star Tribune will still exist, but they may experience a chilling effect comparable to a Saganesque nuclear winter.
What else can we expect?
Our military will take over the leadership in the vacuum that occurs. It is dispersed, and for the last couple of decades the emphasis has been on decision-making at the lowest levels possible.
There will be rioting, and vigilantes will destroy every identifiable Islamic structure in the country. Anyone looking the least like a Muslim, brown skin, head scarf, turban, will be attacked.
There will also be the inevitable political jockeying. I expect the governors to immediately try to rebuild some sort of national order, but the methods will be highly variable and in some cases definitely suspect. They will all try to do it in a manner to gain power for themselves. Without a central government we will most likely revert to something functionally akin to the Articles of Confederation or the early Federal Republic. Having finally gotten back their power the governors will be slow to relinquish it.
here will be several months of confusion as things are sorted out. Of necessity there will have to be a national level of government. Representatives will be elected, appointed, and created by back room deals. Senators will be created the same way. The fundamentals of the Constitution will be re-established.
In the meantime, the military command structure that is left will launch retaliatory strikes. I don’t expect them to be conventional weapons either. I doubt if we will worry about proving who did it. There will be a wholesale nuclear bombing of Iran, possibly North Korea for helping them, and conventional strikes on any other suspected allies. If enough of Israel is left, they will target most of the Middle East. When it is done, Islam as a religion will be gone, as well as all state sponsorship of it. Mecca and Medina will be glass, and much of Iran. Justice will not be the issue, nor will retribution, it will be vengeance, pure and simple. Americans are the most generous people in the world, but given the provocation we have the capacity to be the most brutal.
China may use the confusion to launch an attack on Taiwan.
Europe will either, wake up and finally do something about their Islamic invasion or else, give up completely.
Having finally seen what isolationism will do to us, the US will transform itself internationally into a bully. We will still be the strongest force on the planet, and we will determine to remain that way. We will approach allies with a whole new suspicion, and there better be plenty of reciprocation for our cooperation. We will also react much more strongly to smaller events, having finally learned that letting things go to be nice doesn’t pay. We will also take our own self-interest more seriously.
At home we will find out that we don’t need a central nanny after all, and the governors will be very jealous of their new-found power.
…[T]he borders will be sealed, and multiculturalism will be dead. The general populace will stand for nothing else.
Will this happen tomorrow? Next year? Probably not. But it may well happen in the next decade.
It is important to realize that they are patient. They think of this as a continuation of a war started hundreds of years ago—witness the statements of al-Qaida that Andalusia is to be returned to Islam. The Moors were thrown out of Spain almost a thousand years ago. If it takes five, ten, or fifteen years to acquire the necessary materials to make that many bombs they will take the time. I don’t think it will take that long.
Heinlein wrote that there were only two ways to protect yourself from an atomic bomb: Not be there when it went off, or work like a dog to make sure it doesn’t get deployed in the first place. We seem to have given up on the second course, and very few people will adopt the first until it’s too late.
An account of what a nuclear explosion in the middle of San Diego will do can be found here.
And while we’re at it, here’s a link to a chart of the effects of a blast in downtown Los Angeles.
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mirwalk said,
I am not sure if we would end up nuking every place in sight but I could see it happening. With a vast retaliation then people would be afraid of attacking us again rather than just regular military operation.
I don’t think I would mind losing San FranFreako or LA for that matter. Losing the Far left bastions would help people wisen up instead of this anti-American EVERYTHING that pours out of those places.
The thing I would worry about is the fallout of nukes. With the right wind conditions that radioactive material can be dispersed over a large section of land and wreak havoc on people, wildlife, and crops.
February 11, 2007 at 12:15 pm
mirwalk said,
February 11, 2007 at 12:16 pm
thurston861 said,
Nothing like culture change.
Don’t like what I say? Others have written over one hundered page books on such things.
Dont’ look at me I am not the one who fudged on our sovereignty at the border and jailed innocent Border Patrol Agents thus making the south land an open gate for “The Pilot”.
Say good bye to centralized government and liberal feminista academia.
We have let them sow the wind, I expect G-D to let us reap the whirlwind. I began to reap the whirlwind and filed suit in FDC MD PA on September 10, 2001, the planes (judgment began on September 11, 2001.
Yep, the economic, political, and intellectual elitists really painted themselves into a corner this time.
February 11, 2007 at 1:57 pm
conservativation said,
Imagine though, those in the cities, and since cities consist of mainly liberals who live in denial of this stuff, they will be the ones w/ zero provision and protection from the anarchy sure to reign there if this happens.
But how can something blindside you when it has been written and preached again and again?
I don’t consider myself a kook, and I believe that for one reason or another, there will be good reason to be prepared for disasters, whether it be a simple power grid failure, a financial meltdown, or a nuke.
That’ll get Elder George’s patriarchy kick started!
February 11, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Toubrouk said,
For more than 60 years, no nuclear bomb went off on a target. There was many show-off and test nukes but no real mess. The bomb, by itself, became a diplomatic weapon instead of a millitary one. in this eyesight, keeping it unused is the best bluff and many countries count on this bluff to maintain some lever of power or security.
The perfect idea is the state of Israel. Reliable sources tell us that they got 200 warheads. If a mushroom cloud just pop in the middle of Tel-Aviv, how long will it takes until Teheran end-up as a radioactive ghost town?
So here’s the idea about nuclear weapons; they are efficient until we have to use them. If someone (say, Iran) chose to push the red button, it’s the whole equilibrium of global diplomacy that will shake. I can say that the next country that will use the atomic bomb will get pounded to death by the rest of the world, period. It’s like having a guard dog; he’s good when he barks but a liability when he bite. Not putting him down will just encourage him to do it again.
February 11, 2007 at 3:37 pm
amfortas said,
Kiefer Sutherland will be lynched if he leaves his house for not stopping the bombing by shooting the bad guys, his brother, his dad, the Vice-President, two ex best mates and next door’s dog. He will claim he is only an actor and hollywood will lead the lynch mob that drags him out.
Hilary will be swept into power by the new Hairdresser Party with massive funding from Mary Kay. Britney will be VP. She is half qualified already. They will preserve the bombed cities as a lesson to not elect Republicans again. To ensure it never happens again, President Hillary will open 500,000 child-care centres and roster everyone who isn’t on a sex offender register to work voluntarily in them for minimum wage, for ‘fairness’. The centres will quickly become shopping malls. There will be a rush to get on the register.
Europe will hold a conference for 28 years; a year in each country until they have all had a turn. They will rename the EU, Eurabia. Great Britain,a once powerful and staunch ally of the USA will become an old folks home run by skinheads and chavettes. The old folk will also blame Bush and ask “Who was Blair? Was he a relative?”. Asia will be inscrutible and carry on as if nothing had happened and continue increasing trade. Japanese goods will have a label saying “What noise?”. Australia will have talk shows about it but no one will watch as they drink up all the remaining stocks of Fosters. The Sea Dyaks will become a force to be reckoned with in the next century.
The average Ayrab will fire guns in the air and dance for an hour or two and shoot someone three streets away in revenge for a slight made against a grandmother’s camel hair carpet 600 years ago. So will the Irish.
The Ice caps will melt a bit quicker and in 50 years the entire American people, minus all the mexicans, will move to Antarctica. It will all blow over. The next great super-power will emerge - Botswana.
February 11, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
“President Gerald R. Ford signed a directive in 1976 offering Tehran the chance to buy and operate a US-built reprocessing facility for extracting plutonium from nuclear reactor fuel. The deal was for a complete “nuclear fuel cycle” — reactors powered by and regenerating fissile materials on a self-sustaining basis.
“Estimates of Iran’s oil reserves were smaller then than they are now, but energy experts and US intelligence estimates continue to project that Iran will need an alternative energy source in the coming decades. Iran’s population has more than doubled since the 1970s, and its energy demands have increased even more.
The Ford administration — in which Cheney succeeded Rumsfeld as chief of staff and Wolfowitz was responsible for nonproliferation issues at the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency — continued intense efforts to supply Iran with US nuclear technology until President Jimmy Carter succeeded Ford in 1977.
Charles Naas, who was deputy US ambassador to Iran in the 1970s, said proliferation was high in the minds of technical experts, “but the nuclear deal was attractive in terms of commerce, and the relationship as a whole was very important.”
Documents show that US companies, led by Westinghouse, stood to gain $6.4 billion from the sale of six to eight nuclear reactors and parts. Iran was also willing to pay an additional $1 billion for a 20 percent stake in a private uranium enrichment facility in the United States that would supply much of the uranium to fuel the reactors.
In 1975, as secretary of state, Kissinger signed and circulated National Security Decision Memorandum 292, titled “US-Iran Nuclear Cooperation,” which laid out the administration’s negotiating strategy for the sale of nuclear energy equipment projected to bring US corporations more than $6 billion in revenue. At the time, Iran was pumping as much as 6 million barrels of oil a day, compared with an average of about 4 million barrels daily today.
That history is absent from major Bush administration speeches, public statements and news conferences on Iran.”
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/9925
Iran has ever right to build a nuclear reactor, just as much right as Israel, which unlike Iran, in not a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treat. As long as Israel has the estimated 200 or more nuclear weapons in its arsenal, supplied by the US, don’t expect Iran to back down from developing its domestic energy program. Would you?
It’s a bitch when you bump into reality, isn’t it?
You have more to ve concerend about from your own government than anything coming our of Iran.
February 11, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Dave Stone said,
I understand the author’s frustration and his fantasy of the US finally waking up and kicking ass, but I think the entire world now knows we are indeed a pathetic paper tiger. After building the mightiest military power in the history of mankind this country has shown it’s adopted the doctrine of stalemate and quagmire. The sensibilities of its enemies trumps America’s desire for victory. We need the sympathies and good wishes of the rest of the world that always has, does now, and always will hate and envy us so there’ll be no retailiation. And, after all, we don’t want to upset the Arab Street.
What I envision is President Hillary, hair covered by a scarf, on TV assuring us that with her chatting and dialogue skills she’s been able to get us favorable terms and that she’s pretty sure we won’t be hit too many more times. And she’ll probably tell us that we will indeed be able to choose the colors of our prayer rugs.
February 11, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
“Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Hermann Goering
February 11, 2007 at 8:20 pm
thurston861 said,
Toubrouk - There is no doubt that Iran will not be launching a missile. That is for amassed armies on its borders. The RAM getting out in the form of easily portable briefcase bombs will be the actual problem. Iran has funded and armed Isalmic insurgencies from Gaza, Traq, Lebanon, Bosnia, Herzagovina, Kosovo, Yugoslavia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Georgia, Armenia, and Chechnya. Whats a few brief case nukes among friends?
New York is putting up RAM detectors on roads going into the city, they will slowly expand that perimeter as I saw at another location. It has to be done, this is why Iran sent “the Pilot.”
The attack will not come from a missile, car, truck, or even ManPad as you saw in the movie The Peacemaker (Clooney/Kidmann).
Read my words carefully. The treat is much closer than you think.
Amfortas - you forgot about us having to teach our grandchildren to speak Chinese with a Mexican accent and Malasia and Indonesia taking over the northern half of Austrailia during the commercial breaks of those talk shows.
Charles - Great Points on #7. Iran was also flanked on two sided by at least two Russian Divisions by the time this was going on. The oil companies and Pentagon wanted to keep Russia out of the Gulf since the Tehran Conference. I think that they were there until shortly afterwards. Yet now we have the usual suspects worrying that as the Russians handed out AK’s to every self-declared revolutionary, that Iran will hand out breifcase nukes.
As I said, they painted them self nicely into a corner.
Dave - LOL that was excellent! But on a serious note, Putin’s comments and Gates’ response is an indication that the truce is over. The Cold War is back on and Russia will take action if we hit Iran in any form or fashion.
Charles - thanks for reminding us of the paradigms that are a danger no matter who is doing the manipulation.
February 11, 2007 at 10:34 pm
amfortas said,
I have, actually, a few good uses for some nukes. If I were the Great Aussie Dictator, I would oversee the greatest population explosion ever seen here. We are 20 million. Think on that. A large city population. A drop in the ocean in a huge continent. One that is short of water and full of desert. I would invite one million people a year to settle here. For the next 50 years. I would put them to work building a wall 100 metres high all around the interior deserts, 6000 miles long, then use the nukes to blast a channel from the Gulf of Carpentaria and from the Spencer gulf, and flood the middle. We would have an enormous inland sea, change the climate to warm temperate, get rid of the droughts, and build 100 cities of half a million population each around it. Let everyone come. They could have a city each for all I care. Any ethnic city that wanted to get shirty with another would have a 5 million man (and woman) army surrounding them in a day and shut them down in a week just by camping outside.
Charles, you are right too. Frankly its none of America’s business who gets the bomb and who gets nuclear plants. The MAD policy did well and that’s all that’s needed. Its no use America whining about Iran today when only yesterday they were feeding the stuff to them. The good that men do, often does them no good.
February 11, 2007 at 11:14 pm
Patriot said,
I also agree that the average liberal in large cities will suffer most. They will be closer to the attacks and since they are in denial of danger they won’t be as prepared.
Many of them might really have a problem when their beloved central government isn’t there to take care of them and ensure their safety. I believe New Orleans is a fair example. Lots of people there depended on the government and those unfortunate people suffered a lot. I know I donated to the Red Cross the first day of TV broadcasts because watching children suffer is a horrible thing.
If Israel is attacked their retaliation will be more extensive then ours because I believe they will also attack Saudi Arabia & Yemen.
CF: Please spare us the “Zionists control the media” line. Everybody knows liberals dominate the MSM.
February 11, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
I’m not ‘everybody’ and I beg to differ. You’re not paying attention, You confuse control with dominate.
I posted the site twice now. Once more:
http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/chart.shtml
“You can observe a lot just by watching.”
Yogi Berra
February 11, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
Have you looked at a map lately?
And how would you know who did the nuking? Because your government told you who it was?
February 12, 2007 at 12:00 am
Patriot said,
1. Your link doesn’t show anything about Zionists or Jews. It’s just a Murdoch hate group. I’ll take Murdoch over Turner any day.
2. Who needs ballistic missiles to deliver nukes? Our borders are wide open.
3. Isotopes are unique to each country. Just like the radioactive material that killed that spy in England you can trace materials back to their origin. Then you just have to figure out who used it. That’s why I said 3 days in my post.
4. FYI: You don’t need satellites to send a missile from point A to Point B. They have their own inertial guidance systems.
5. They could ship missiles on cargo ships and launch them quickly off our coasts. There would be virtually no warning time at all. Unlikely, but within their capabilities with lots of oil revenues.
I really hope we don’t go to war with Iran. I have met a few people from there and they assure me that a great number of people in that country like Americans and hate their totalitarian government.
Hopefully the people will take their country back from that psychopath and things will be solved.
February 12, 2007 at 12:31 am
Charles Fockaert said,
Sure it does, you just didn’t do any further research. It tells what companies own what media. You’ll have to research to ascertain who runs those companies. I would give you more links that do just tha, but they aren’t controlled by Zionists so you most likely won’t find them ‘credible.’
February 12, 2007 at 3:00 am
Charles Fockaert said,
Same thing could be send for our own country. We know for sure this pychopath has nuclear weapons.
February 12, 2007 at 3:01 am
thurston861 said,
def. Government by an elite class of the criminally insane.
February 12, 2007 at 8:39 am
Karl Lembke said,
That was before the Shah was abandoned and before Khomeini took over the reins of government. I hope if Ford had been given access to a crystal ball, and had known Carter was going to midwife the first Jihadist state, he might have done things differently.
February 12, 2007 at 12:44 pm
The Gonzman said,
SEIG HEIL!
“Deutschland, Deutschland, uber alles…”
February 12, 2007 at 1:02 pm
The Gonzman said,
Go back to David Duke and the rest of your skinhead pals, Charles.
February 12, 2007 at 1:04 pm
thurston861 said,
Some went to Iran and sat behind Mr. Duke.
As I have studdied Rabbi Antleman’s ‘To Eliminate the Opiate’ I see that a great idea got hijacked by the Zionists who are socialist, and have demonstrated the same bey the political position they developed in Europe (Socialist) and the form of govenrment that they have in Israel.
It cannot be denied that the Majority of Jews in the World are not Zionists, for they do not live in Israel, they live in the US.
The claim of Zionists(Socialists) running the Establishment Media is considered plausible as they have done well the bidding of the Marxist Feminists.
The results sort of speak for themselves here you think?
Rabbi Antleman penned, jsut as you see in the movie The Believer, that the Holocost was the price paid for the Jewish people abandoning the Torah and embracing Communism.
What parallel price is America paying to embracing Feminist Marxism?
So, I hold out thanks for reminding us of the paradigms that are a danger no matter who is doing the manipulation.
February 12, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
Duke is a convenient strawman when many of you bump into reality.
And it’s anti-Semitic not anti-semetic. Did you know Arabs are Semitic too? And most Jews are Ashkenazi Jews and therefore not Semites?
Didn’t think so.
February 12, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
Marx was Jewish. So were the foremost four founding feminists.
Beginning to see a pattern?
“It cannot be denied that the Majority of Jews in the World are not Zionists, for they do not live in Israel, they live in the US.”
You don’t have to live in Israel to be a Zionist, no more than you have to live in Italy to be Italian.
February 12, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Patriot said,
They probably think they are wowing us with their brilliant insight.
More Jew hating from CF as well.
CF: Is there anything wrong you don’t blame on the Jews?
So far you have told us they, control all media, faked the Holocaust, caused 9/11, started feminism, and basically you’ve said they run everything.
You are free to say and think what you want, but I am surprised you are being allowed this forum to continue preaching hate and blaming everything on people of one ethnicity.
Remind you I am not close to being Jewish, but even to this 4th generation American of German descent your hate mongering is so obvious.
February 12, 2007 at 7:01 pm
amfortas said,
February 12, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
Peter, James, John and Paul had a great influence on the early spread of Christianity. Most Americans would say that the influence of Christianity has been positive. These four men preached Jesus Christ as Savior to the world.
All these men, including Jesus Christ, were Jewish. By mentioning these facts, does that make me a hate mongering hate preaching anti-Semite?
I’m not going to defend myself against your claims, as you hide behind your pseudonym and engage in ad hominem attacks, as they are patently false. All I am doing is stating facts. Facts that have long been surpressed due to exactly the kind of attacks you are making. There is no label feared greater today than ‘anti-Semite.” No label today is used in a more blatantly deceptive manner and purpose. If you’d like to refute the facts I present, please make your attemtp. Otherwise, enough with the personal attacks.
And quite frankly, I’m surprised that “you are being allowed this forum to continue preaching hate’ and personal attacks based upon you not being able to distinguish between rational discourse and libel.
February 12, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Patriot said,
Your actions speak for themselves and you can’t deny them. You have said the Jews control all media, faked the Holocaust, caused 9/11, started feminism, and basically you’ve said they run everything. And that is just in the last week.
All that is on record here in these forums and you have nobody to blame but you.
February 12, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Patriot said,
February 12, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
What I did say was, “If you’d like to refute the facts I present, please make your attemtp.[sic]
But attempting would require you to actually study a bit and by doing that you might find out what I am saying are indeed the facts.
Let’s try an easy one for you to refute:
“A relatively small group of people, [that happen to be Jewish] don’t control over 90% of the main stream media in the United States.”
This one is even easier to get your head around but just as difficult to refute:
“All of the last three Chairmen of the private corporation known as the Federal Reserve Bank, which has printed the entire money supply for the United States since 1913-14 and then loaned it to the US government at interest, weren’t Jewish.’
Go ahead, refute those two statements with facts, without a persoanl attack and without using your opinion.
February 12, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Toubrouk said,
Dunno. Maybe just the need to have a whipping boy nearby to blame everything on him?
This is why the Arabs love Israel; they can blame everything from human rights violations to the weather on them!
Anyway, conspiracy theories don’t exist. If Nixon was unable to keep the lid on an illegal operation involving two dozen mens and if Clinton can’t keep his sexual life inside of a group of five people, how can we explain a Zionist Cabal?
Please, let leave the lunacy of conspiracies to the left.
February 12, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
“These twelve private credit monopolies were deceitfully and disloyally foisted upon this Country by the [Jewish] bankers who came here from Europe and repaid us our hospitality by undermining our American institutions. Those [Jewish] bankers took money out of this Country to finance Japan in a war against Russia. They created a reign of terror in Russia with our money in order to help that war along. They instigated the separate peace between Germany and Russia, and thus drove a wedge between the allies in World War. They financed Trotsky’s passage from New York to Russia so that he might assist in the destruction of the Russian Empire. They fomented and instigated the Russian Revolution, and placed a large fund of American dollars at Trotsky’s disposal in one of their branch banks in Sweden so that through him Russian homes might be thoroughly broken up and Russian children flung far and wide from their natural protectors. They have since begun breaking up of American homes and the dispersal of American children.
Did you get that?
“They have since begun breaking up of American homes and the dispersal of American children.”
This was said by Luis T. McFadden on the floor of the House of Representatives - Chairman of the Banking and Currency Committee for more than 10 years - back in 1933/4.
February 12, 2007 at 9:30 pm
Patriot said,
As you you CF. More paranoid delusions. Some government officials were Jewish so therefore they control the world.
If they controlled the world and had so much power “truth tellers” like you would disappear.
February 12, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
Sure they do, here’s one:
“19 Arabs with boxcutters hijacked four airliners in the most protected airspace in the world and even though they had trouble flying Cessna 152s they were able to navigate and fly two 757s into the Twin Towers and one into the Pentagon and make the 757 that hit the Pentagon disappear.”
February 12, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Patriot said,
I think the manager over at my local McDonalds is Jewish too. They must be trying to control the burger market as well.
February 12, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
Going stick with the personal attacks I see. More energy needed than lifting the remote to actually base your cheap opinions on a factual foundation?
That’s okay, there is a term for LazyBoy intellectuals such as yourself - “useful idiots.
February 12, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Patriot said,
We point things out to you over and over again. You just ignore everyone and everything because reality doesn’t support your paranoia.
Are you more distinguished than the panel of national experts that Popular Mechanics assembled to debunk 9/11 deniers?
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
I am still waiting for you to tell me why the passengers on flight 93 lied to their relatives and cooperated with “the plot”.
Why did all of the passengers and crew from all of the planes cooperate and lie when they called family members and friends.
I am still waiting for you to explain how a government that can’t keep classified information out of the NY Slimes can pull off an operation that would take thousands of co-conspirators.
How did the demolition team manage to get all of their week’s worth of work done without anybody seeing them?
We are all still waiting for you to tell us who did carry out 9/11. Are you lazy? Please show us the way.
Shove all this up your “useful idiot” mind.
February 12, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Patriot said,
February 12, 2007 at 10:14 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
“I am still waiting for you to tell me why the passengers on flight 93 lied to their relatives and cooperated with “the plot”.”
Patriot behind the pseudonym - you’re hardly worth the time, but because others may read this who don’t post I’ll go ahead:
1. Prove to us the ‘passengers’ you say were aboard flight 93 were actually who we were told they were and that they were actually aboard flight 93. Then, show us the evidence, not the statements from the government about the alleged evidence, but the evidence itself for a plane having actually crashed in that Penn. field. [Hint: there is none. What the conspirators are counting on is you won't check the 'facts' and you haven't have you?
2. "an operation that would take thousands of co-conspirators."
What makes you think it would take thousands? Critical thinkers have come to the estimation that it would only take about 50 people to actually be involved. 75 tops. The rest would not know what was coming down, eg, the air traffic controllers.
"How did the demolition team manage to get all of their week’s worth of work done without anybody seeing them?"
3. How do you know anybody didn't see them? Working night shift and weekends for one. Most of the work would have been done in the service areas of the bldgs, where very few have access.
Are you going to need every single question answered before you believe?
"Are you more distinguished than the panel of national experts that Popular Mechanics assembled to debunk 9/11 deniers?"
Know who put together that Pop Mech piece?
25-year-old Benjamin Chertoff, a cousin of, yep, that's right, Zionist Supremacist Michael Chertoff of Homeland Security fame.
[The Pop Mech piece has been debunk by many. Do a Googgle to find out who and where].
If you’d done your homework, you’d know it was Michael Chertoff, as Deputy Attorney General under Ashcroft, who let the Israeli nationals - who were caught dancing in glee and recording the ‘attack’ of the Twin Towers from a bridge in NY and arrestedby the FBI - return to Israel immediately following 9/11 even though all air travel was suspended for most everyone else, except those Saudis of course.
February 12, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
Chertoff said he was the “senior researcher” of the piece. When asked if he was related to Michael Chertoff, he said, “I don’t know.” Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist ? the one who never answers the phone.
Benjamin’s mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, “Yes, of course, he is a cousin.”
“Senior researcher.” LOL
Pretty nifty, sounds like something out of the files of Saddam Husseins Iraq - get a cousin to right a piece that ‘refutes’ the conspiracy theory that your cousin is involved in.
You go with that one Patriot behind the pseudonym.
February 12, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Patriot said,
My 20-year military career tells me the government can’t do anything with 50 - 75 people, but even with that number of people several would have squealed. And just who are your “critical thinkers”? Critically insane?
I know nobody saw any demolition preparations because nobody has said otherwise.
I did several searches. Nobody has disproved the Popular Mechanics report.
And once again anything you can’t explain, and that’s pretty much everything, you blame on the Jews. I’m probably on their payroll.
Your “research” is amazing! I am so convinced.
If you are correct why haven’t the all-powerful Jews taken out somebody like you who has them figured out?
February 13, 2007 at 12:19 am
Patriot said,
They control all media
Faked the Holocaust
Faked or Caused 9/11
Started feminism
Started Communism
Control all finance in the world
Run the Homeland Security Department
All these statements in the last week.
And we are all still waiting for you to tell us who carried out the 9/11 attacks? If you want us to consider believing you, you have to make you case. So TELL US.
February 13, 2007 at 12:30 am
Charles Fockaert said,
That statement tells me what I need to know - the military told you when to get up when to eat when to get rid of what you ate where to live where to go what to wear how to think and why to think it what to do and when to do it and to basically shut up for 20 years.
No wonder you can’t get your head around the fact that 9/11 wasn’t carried out by a conspiracy of 19 Arabs with boxcutters - nine of which are apparently still alive: because your government has told you it was.
February 13, 2007 at 2:01 am
Squiggy said,
As many paranoid delusions, uh, I mean “facts” as you have on your side, you should be able to write some awesomely intricate articles.
Plus, you would have the freedom to go into detail, so that you could convince us that you aren’t a character from “The Simpsons”.
February 13, 2007 at 6:02 am
Patriot said,
And you STILL haven’t told us why the passengers on the aircraft that called their relatives lied to their loved ones about the Arabs with box cutters.
And you STILL haven’t told us who carried out the attacks.
And you STILL can’t get it through your head that MAYBE there are Arabs in the world with THE SAME NAME.
This may shock the hell out of you, but I have known other people named Charles before.
Sloppy attempt at not responding when cornered.
February 13, 2007 at 10:05 am
Patriot said,
February 13, 2007 at 10:13 am
thurston861 said,
His comment was about the circumstances of the culture and environment that you spent 20 years in. Not that he hated the fact that there is such an organization. Just a fact.
Whether or not that circumstance had any effect on your thoughts and the availability of information from multiple sources can only be determined by you.
If he defended the acts of 911 he would be laughing about the 9 that are allegedly still alive when he tells you of them.
Be thick skinned.
I met people who saw the plane go down.
I have met people who did crash recovery for the Air Force. 500mph radical vertical impact into the terrain, there is not much left of bodies and plane.
There are many unanswered questions regarding some far too convenient circumstances. Yet this is not the place, so do not entertain the subject.
February 14, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Charles Fockaert said,
Not true. A jet engine doesn’t simple disappear just because it hits the ground at 500mph. And two of them certanly don’t. Many eyewitness at the alleged Penn. site said there was no plane. Even the county coroner went home within 30 minutes as there were no bodies and that is a recorded verifible fact. check it out.
“Not that he hated the fact that there is such an organization. Just a fact.”
Thank you, accurate statement. I never said nor insinuated I hate the military. I just know that the people I’ve meant, with a few notable exceptions, that have served any length of time in the military tend to not be original thinkers. those who do, like Lt. Watada, get court martialed, which sends a strong message to the rest of the potential ‘free-thinkers.’ Obey orders, even when you think they are illegal, as we will do your thinking for you.
February 15, 2007 at 2:04 am
Squiggy said,
This guy tried to get a free education at a prestigious university, and then screw them, and the rest of us, all at the same time. He’s a damn coward, and a traitor in the tradition of Benedict Arnold and the Rosenbergs.
P.S. You’re trying to give our pet freethinker a bad name. Go away.
February 15, 2007 at 5:22 am
Charles Fockaert said,
Secondly, what is in dispute is the whether or not the orders given are legal or not. You’re the judge and the jury on those tryings of fact? I think not, as you haven’t heard the evidence.
Did you know Lt. Watada offered to deploy in Afghanistan instead of Iraq? Didn’t think so.
“You signed the papers and agreed to the rules. ”
And what are those rules and what did Lt. Watada agree to?
“”I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
That is what Lt. Watada says he is trying to do - support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Following unlawful orders, does not support and defend the US. If we had more men that saw what their duty was - support and defend the UNited states from all enemies both foreign and domestic - we wouldn’t be getting ourselves into wars we can’t win, would we?
The Iraqi war was illegal from the get go - Congress did not declare war on Iraq.
And there are many more military personnel just like Lt Watada, but you’re not being told about them, so I will:
“Service Members Rally Against the War in Iraq
By William H. McMichael
The Navy Times
Monday 15 January 2007
Hutto said they’ve gathered about 1,000 signatures, mostly from enlisted service members and nearly half from the Army, in ranks ranging from E-1 to O-6.
Members of the group will present the petition to Congress on Tuesday morning on the steps of the U.S. Capitol’s Cannon House Office Building. On hand to accept the petition, group members say, will be Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, who opposes the Bush administration’s planned troop surge and favors cutting off funding for the war in an effort to halt that surge.”
“It’s not cowardice,” Cortwright said. “It’s an extraordinary expression of conviction and courage.”
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012307B.shtml
February 16, 2007 at 12:57 am
Charles Fockaert said,
That is the one kind of judging that you have no right to make - judging a person’s motives. You don’t know Lt. Watada’s movtives for joining the service.
Are those more than 1000 service personnel who signed the Appeal for Redress petition cowards too? did they sign up for the military to make America look bad?
Methinks not. Squiggy behind the pseudonym, be as brave as you want others to be - sign up and ask for a tour of duty or two in Iraq, be one of the Surgettes. And make American proud.
February 16, 2007 at 1:06 am
Squiggy said,
Charles, you are a liar.
Watadas “Stryker Brigade” was about to be sent to Iraq FOR THE FIRST TIME. He was never in battle. He was NEVER IN IRAQ! He went to OCS AFTER the Iraq war had started SO HE KNEW HE WOULD HAVE TO GO.
Don’t give me this touchy-feely liberal/idiot crap that I can’t judge someones motives. I may not be able to read his mind, but when he shits on the kitchen table I know he’s not trying to prove what a great patriot he is.
You keep telling us we need to look things up for ourselves, but YOU won’t even look up something as simple as Watadas service record, which is EVERYWHERE on the net.
Which leads me to only one possible conclusion - Charles Fockaert is a character on the Simpsons, with a believability quotient somewhere between Diamond Joe Quimby and Comic Book Guy.
February 16, 2007 at 6:19 am
Halo said,
Get your facts straight on something simple, and your conspiracy theories might not look so insane.
P.S. Say hello to Professor Frink for me.
February 16, 2007 at 7:54 am
christianj said,
Hear, hear.
February 25, 2007 at 7:30 am