Iraq: We Ain’t Losin’

Go to http://www.vdare.com/sailer/070319_diversity.htm for more on Finland and its tremendous control over illegal immigration.

Immigration has been one of this country’s most distinctive characteristics since before any of us were born. All of our ancestors (save native tribes) immigrated here at some time. But that is not the point. The country was attacked from the inside, not Iraq. Any president worth his weight, even a halfway honest man, would have done whatever was necessary to seal the borders after such an attack. Maybe, just maybe, the Finnish example is indeed “thin”, but the Berlin wall, as despicable as it was, is not. These are examples of things that are possible. Sensible borders are not an impossibility, and they are not just “seductive” ideas. Nor are any of the other, more peaceful ideas I and other real conservatives and libertarians have put forth.

MRAs should be concerned about the rights of all men, not just jilted American fathers. This includes the millions of innocent men living in the Middle East, Muslim, Jew, Christian and agnostic, whose lives, livelihoods, and families are ripped apart by a war that some are already saying will go on for decades. And as I write this, our borders are still open, and terrorists can still roam about on our shores, thanks to one dishonest administration after another.

Tyrranical Lie #1: Pearl Harbor. Go to: http://jbs.org/node/58 (John Birch Society, staunch old-line conservatives, not “statements made by the left”.)

Tyrranical Lie #2: Flight 93. Go to: http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/k/kovach/2005/kovach091305.htm (Yup. This very website.)

Tyrranical Lie #3: No forewarning. Go to: http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/Chronicles/August2003/0803CIA.html (Justin Raimondo is a prominent libertarian, not a leftist.)

Tyrranical Lie #4: Wide open borders, and a president who calls citizens that lawfully try to defend those borders “vigilantes”.

Tyrranical Lie #5: The quote I provided in an above post from President Bush, which no one has even touched.

There are more tyrranical lies other than these. For example, go to http://www.angryharry.com/ (an anti-feminist, pro-MRA website) and scroll down to the anecdote about the British government lying to its own people during WWII about the need for recyclable tires for the war effort.

Or why not just spend some time reading “1984″ to get an idea of how governments usurp power from the people, ostensibly for their own good.

You fail to address in any useful fashion so many important points that I made. If we are going to waste hundreds of billions of dollars in the Middle East, why can’t that huge sum of money be put toward a sensible border with Mexico and Canada? You “lol” at Finland, but I don’t think the Finnish thought it was terribly funny when the Soviet Union invaded just prior to the outbreak of WWII, and they have had a capable border ever since. Russians are still eager to get into Finland, as their GDP is much higher and more stable, and their quality of life is much better. But they aren’t getting in.

If it can be done in the frozen forests of Finland, it can be done on a flat, open, sunny and warm border with Mexico.

Germany and Japan survived and thrived after WWII because they had already established ancient identities and unique cultures prior to their defeat. Iraq is a manufactured country composed of many different warring factions, and many different terrorist groups. Good luck trying to suddenly get them to be as industrious, educated, cultured, and efficient as the Japanese and Germans.

Yes, TheRanger, “In a way Iraq is like Vietnam”, in more ways than one. The government told lies and sold propoganda to get us into both, and there is no evidence that either country attacked us. Luckily, though, the government has not yet forced young men to give up their rights (what normally goes under the acronym MRA) by introducing conscription in the present war. Although that idea has already been vocalized. Hope you don’t have any teenage or prepubescent boys. Like S Baker said, “[T]his is going to continue for decades.”

And before you lump me in with Leftists like Jane Fonda, remember that not a single one of the points I have previously made has been seriously addressed or challenged, and that I have a lot of real conservatives and libertarians on my side such as:

Steve Sailer
Vox Day
Pat Buchanan
John Derbyshire
Ilana Mercer
Devvy Kidd
John Taylor Gatto
Rep. Ron Paul
Lew Rockwell
Rep. Tom Tancredo
Justin Raimondo
Senator Chuck Hagel

All staunch believers in the Second Amendment. All staunch believers in limited government. All staunch believers in the free market. All staunch believers in rights granted by God. Jihadists may be counting on a vocal minority, but I’ll count on the above any day over an administration that lies and covers up, while waging deadly war with pretend money against countries that never attacked us; while letting the real perps run free and our borders wide open.

And it’s not a vocal minority anymore. A majority of Americans are sick of the lying as well as I am.

“We still have troops in Korea, Germany, and Kosovo. Let’s see how many years? I was wondering if you object to those troops too?” Yes, I would. So would George Washington:

“Any other tenure by which the West can hold this essential advantage [trade from the Atlantic coast], whether derived from its own separate strength, or from an apostate and unnatural connexion with any foreign power, must be intrinsically precarious.” Korea, Germany, and Kosovo never attacked us.

“The idea is to create a stable form of representative government which is why all the dictators and kings in the area are so frantic to stop it because if it succeeds, they are toast.” If that is the “idea”, or rather, the “mission”, then the mission was not accomplished, certainly not in 2003. You cannot change ideology by force of arms, or we’d still be colonies.

“Point two, either we fight the mass murderers there or here.” No, we don’t, if we leave the Middle East alone and seal our borders.

“Take your pick and get used to the fact this is going to continue for decades.” This, I know. We have always been at war with either Eurasia or Eastasia. “If you don’t know the difference between good and bad and right and wrong I have wasted my time.” If you don’t know the difference between self defense and tyrranical lies to prop up perpetual war, then I have wasted my time as well.

“You paint some ridiculously simple proposals to address very complex issues.” What is ridiculously simple about any of the things I mentioned? Finland has a border with Russia almost as long as our border with Mexico, and it is sealed off. The hundreds of billions of dollars flushed down the toilet in the Middle East could have been put to much greater use finding and expelling aliens on our shores. Bin Laden should have been found by now, after almost six years. He’s not that crafty. You didn’t even address my quoting George W. Bush above. What is ridiculous about detaining bin Laden’s family when they are already in the country? And we can stop immigration and dissolve the INS any time we feel it is necessary.

“The problem is that terrorists have no specific nation, no home. So you can’t go running agents through multiple countries trying to find an outlaw and not tick a few off.” There will always be terrorists of one stripe or another. I think I speak for most Americans when I say we want bin Laden dead, and that’s the end of it. I say again, you cannot change ideology by force, which is why the Soviet Union eventually imploded.

“So finding Bin Laden is no small task.” Another poster who didn’t even address my quote of the president above. HE DOESN’T CARE ABOUT GETTING BIN LADEN. He disbanded the CIA group that was charged with finding him.

“As for shutting off the borders, it would require SERIOUS manpower to be able to fully close the borders… While I would not mind all of the illegals being kicked out, getting Americans to be behind this would be a monumental task. A lot of minorities would call discrimination and Liberals would say that Republicans are repressing people.” I think this argument is pretty weak. Remember what I said about Finland. The majority of Americans are in favor of it, and Leftists whine no matter what. A government that loves to spend money that it doesn’t have could have taken care of the border a long time ago.

Which is more ridiculous, the idea of changing people’s minds with bombs, or putting up a sensible border? Which sounds more like love of country and national defense? Which solution is a greater guarantee of liberty?