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Alec Baldwin and Parens Patriae

Actor Alec Baldwin has been raked over the coals for a phone call he made to his daughter. It was not a very nice phone call, but then most of us can recall unpleasant conversations with family members. How many of us are called on the carpet by the national media, forced to explain our private behavior, subject to a public debate over whether we should be permitted to keep our children, and then summoned to court?

Actually quite a few, or at least we might be better off if there were such a debate. The government appropriation of children is now so out-of-control that parents routinely lose their children for less than what Baldwin did, and with neither public debate nor trial by jury. While it may be true that Baldwin is being publicly pilloried because he is a celebrity, the invasion of his privacy is far from unique.

Since when did every parent in America become answerable to the media and the government for what they say to their children? As several commentators noted, if every parent were to lose their children every time they lose their temper, all the children in America would be parentless.

Which is more or less where we are headed. Whether through involuntary divorce, trumped-up abuse accusations, or the myriad methods exercised by the public education system, the government now has so many ways to seize control of your children – without ever proving that you have done anything wrong – that it is hardly an exaggeration to say that we have already embarked on a system of communal child-rearing.

The circumstances leading Baldwin to lose his composure were created entirely by the fact that he was forcibly separated from his daughter by state officials (in legal terminology, he lost “custody”). What he vented was the frustration of a parent prevented from exercising normal parental authority, whose child has been turned against him with the backing of the state, and who was reduced to parenting through an answering machine.

His intemperance opened the gates for swarms of psychologists, prosecutors, and other “experts” to opine on a private family matter of which they know nothing. The fact that Fox News brought in a “former sex crimes prosecutor” to offer her two-cents worth on Baldwin’s “abuse” is a fairly clear indication that the same prosecutorial culture recently seen in the Duke “rape” case was licking its chops here.

Some pronounced on the “irrevocable damage” done to the child’s psyche by his outburst. Yet few mentioned the damage we know results to millions of children like his daughter by keeping them forcibly separated from their parents and systematically instructing them to hate their parents. On the contrary, these “experts” depend for their livelihood on such damaged children and on the government that creates them.

Contrary to the voyeuristic media, a custody battle today is seldom just a dispute between two parents; it is a confrontation between the state and private life. Most often, the state assumes the role of surrogate father, the protector and provider for women and children. And the state does not like rivals.

The problem Baldwin says he will write a book about – “parental alienation” – is a far nastier matter than has been brought out in this debate. At its worst, it amounts to the active indoctrination of children against their parents – a familiar enough practice of ideological regimes in recent history. Though it is usually perpetrated by the custodial parent, she only wields that power because the state stands behind her.

Though children of broken families may be placed in the “custody” of the mother (a term suggesting incarceration), it is more accurate to say that they become wards of the state, which establishes what amounts to a puppet government within the family. It is even reasonable to see the custodial parent as functionally a government official. She is paid to care for her children with money that comes directly from the state (often after being confiscated from the non-custodial parent). The jargon now used by courts and feminists indicates that what we once called a “mother” has been replaced by a gender-neutral government-appointed and government-funded “primary caretaker.”

Pop psychologists have speculated that Baldwin directed at his daughter anger that he really felt toward her mother, Kim Basinger. But it is probably more accurate to regard his explosion as frustration at seeing his daughter adopt the state as her effective father. For the separated child, whether actively “alienated” or not, inevitably shifts her loyalty to the agent she perceives as effectively protecting and providing for her, and that agent is the state. (Some compare parental alienation to Stockholm Syndrome, the process by which captives, especially children, form a bond with their captors.) The father does not lose the child to the mother, after all; most men have children fully intending to share them with their mothers. The interloper is the state. Even children who are not actively programmed against one parent are still effectively raised by the principle that the state, not the parent, is head of the household.

Whatever his imperfections as a parent, Baldwin showed his daughter he cares enough about her to want to see her and to be concerned about her. For children, such actions speak louder than words, even shouted words. If that caused permanent psychological damage, it is damage we all carry as part of the human condition, and we have tested mechanisms for dealing with it. “When we screw up, we have an opportunity to teach our children that humans make mistakes,” writes Martha Brockenbrough, author of The Mommy Chronicles. “We can ask for forgiveness. We can do better in the future and hope that, when our children become parents themselves, they will have learned that we don’t have to be perfect to be lovable and that forgiveness is a gift that heals.”

Steven Baskerville: Taken Into Custody

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  • http://citizensrule.net right2parent

    thurston861 said: “R2P is guilty of Treason against ALL mankind to suggest that a Court that holds itself out as having jurisdiction over settling matters of Parental Rights creates for itself its own interloping Right in the case and becomes a Combatant for its own cause.”

    Can you break this down for me? What Right does a family court settle? My point was about jurisdiction. Family courts assume your natural right has already been abdicated or taken by another court when they apply laws relating to the placement of a state ward. Can you be a little more specific?

  • http://citizensrule.net right2parent

    hmh1497,
    “Do we all have potential lawsuits against our divorce attorneys for mal-practice?”

    I beleive it would do more good to expose the scam, and start objecting to the state’s abuse of its parens patriae power in the initial hearing on a petition for custody. This is done by a motion to deny releif sought in a petition that fails to state a claim. The claim needs to accuse a father of neglect, abuse or abandonment of the children. It needs to claim he is unfit to maintain his status as the child’s lawful guardian. The divorce itself may not require a showing of fault, but custody is a seperate matter, and it is not always an issue in such a proceeding. Endangerment is the standard for a change in custody under our statutes. It is also the standard for releiving a father of his status in the first place. The dissolusion petition does not do that by itself.

    The courts have said the right is not absolute. What they meant by this is it can be suspended or curtailed for cause. All the cases you read that contain citations suggesting a father’s right no longer exists can be traced to proceedings that determined the child was in some kind of danger if left in his care. This is where the so-called tender-years doctrine came from. Other cases relate to abandonment or neglect. Even poverty became a reason to invoke the state’s power when a burden fell on the state as a result.

    Due process is involved when the state takes charge of your children over your objection, and without a hearing on the issue of fitness. This argument has to be carefully constructed. By asking for joint custody, or even sole custody, when you already have it, is asking the state to award you the same under the laws relating to the placement of a state ward. The laws in my state (Minnesota) have been traced to confirm this. It is a simple task to do the same in any other state as well. The common law is not so easily changed. An inalienable right can not be. It can be regulated in the interest of the state, but it cannot be replaced by an invented equal right to parent. A mother and fathers rights are equally protected, but they are not equal with respect to guardianship, unless, when the state is put in a position to decide, it “awards” joint custody. Is that what you want? Will that restore the institution of marriage to its rightful status?

  • http://citizensrule.net right2parent

    thurston861 said:

    R2P is guilty of Treason against ALL mankind to suggest that a Court that holds itself out as having jurisdiction over settling matters of Parental Rights creates for itself its own interloping Right in the case and becomes a Combatant for its own cause.

    You have no idea what my cause is, and you misinterpret what I said. It isn’t family court that settles matters of parental rights, they place state wards. Your battle is in the wrong court. You also have no idea how the legal system has fooled you into thinking this court has subject matter jurisdiction over all children in all cases. Your combative attitude is way out of line, and counter productive.

  • thurston861

    I apologize for my typos.

    ceceived was supposed to be “deceived”

    spiritual…peers…just…Title…of…think

  • thurston861

    The 13th Amendment and the Peonage Act, I thnk that is Titiel 42 section 1994, if memory serves me.

    A more direct path to USSCT is Habeas Corpus.

    Your understanding of Rights leaves you in an inferior condition at this time.

    You are subject to the redefiniing of “us” being where Rights come from.

    When Jefferson and Adams Penned “endowed by their creator” and it is part of the Organic Law of the United States of America pursuant to Title 1 USC, it made America a Creationist Country, it made our laws creationist, it made our education creationists, so that all learned men could see that the Rights of Man come from G-D, that the Oath of office is solem to the Nation and your family, thus a new value system where there is no creator makes Rights Come from learned Men or Men collectively is Treason.

    Thus, those in Power in Government cannot be Pro-Choice.

    They cannot choose Hell on Earth to place Men into and govern in their temporal life time. They have no RIGHT to do that.

    They cannot choose Evilution that makes the Elected the Most Evolved o Man to tell us what our Rights are.

    They cannot choose to legallize the killing of the would be children of those who reject G-D, because only liberals who deny G-D have abortions.

    If you want success, you must hold the Judges to the fact that they have no Right or Authority over your Sacred Rights without Meaningful due process of law which is witnesses and evidence…a jury of peers (that means intellectual perrs). They have no right to redefine what hte founders had already known and agreed would be preserved forever against them in the 9th Amendment.

    R2P is guilty of Treason against ALL mankind to suggest that a Court that holds itself out as having jurisdiction over settling matters of Parental Rights creates for itself its own interloping Right in the case and becomes a Combatant for its own cause.

    Belief in that is just as dangerous and hamstringing to “unalienalbe” rights as belief that our Rights come forth from a societal contract. For a Right is exercised by takinga breath of air. IF Society can allow government to regulate your breath, then it ceases to be a Right, just as the Democracy of the Third Reich legislated against the Rights of thought and life of over 8-9 million people.

    Be not ceceived hmh1497.

    This is a siritual War as well as intellectual.

    R2P proves the intellectual lie of the Legal system to divert you from the truth of your Rights, jsut as the Court in the William Penn trial imprisoned and tortured the Jury to return the verdict the Judges desired.

    Habeas Corpus ended that struggle.

  • hmh1497

    right2parent, are you saying that when a Dad enters divorce court, he forfeits his right to parent his own children?

    Because, if you are saying that, then how does every attorney get away with neglecting to tell their client that they must first challenge the jurisdiction of the local court?

    Do we all have potential lawsuits against our divorce attorneys for mal-practice?

    By the way, it was Justice Thomas in Troxel, June 2000, who wrote, all parents have a fundamental right to raise their childen, and choose who educates and socializes them. He was simply reiterating over 80 years of SCOTUS decisions dating back to Pierce vs Society of Sisters, June 1925.

    Also, It would be best to be careful how and when we use the word unalienable or inalienable becaue it means ‘not transferable’. Kids are adopted routinely. Rights that are fundamental, natural, or defined as human rights, are not transferable because you own them. You could say they come from God, but that is only a simple way of expressing the self-evident truth that all humans have them when they are born. We have faith as Americans, in that our rights come from us. Our fundamental rights belong to us and our Constitutional principles are what we believe. It is our undying faith in Constitutional principles that makes us the shining city on the hill. Our laws must always be written to protect our principles. I know that nearly every law in the Family Court arsenal violates basic human rights, time and time again.

    The lawmakers are our enemies. The 60s free-love generation is such a great explanation of this mess.

    If there are folks out-there, endeavoring to understand this mess, I’d like to hear form them.

    Where do I find more detailed info on the Peonage Law? I would like to include it in my next path to SCOTUS.

  • thurston861

    “Let this discussion be declared FUBAR: fucked up beyond all recovery.”

    Only because your side lost on the points of facts and intellectual honesty?

    I see WLS1 and R2P would have us all just keep whining and complaining that Wymyn don’t play fair and that we should lick the hands of our masters, and thus never challenge their usurpation of our Rights and a Proper Rule of Law.

  • wls1

    Let this discussion be declared FUBAR: fucked up beyond all recovery.

  • thurston861

    I make a point of the intent of the Organic laws of the United Sates of America per Title 1 of the united States Code, and I am the “idiot”.

    Well we know who is using the invective of the Marxist Matrerialists, and it is R2P.

    I know all about the Courts of the Commonwealth of PA and how they act inconsistently with the Organic intent, function, and purpose of the Laws enacted to protect the Rights of Man. You R2P have made my understanding all that much more clear as to the diseased thinking of the People which has created this impossible society.

    Your twisted diseased thinking is still my Enemy.

    You still do not understand what unalienable means against the government taking tha which can never belong to them under the Organic Law of the United States of America.

  • http://citizensrule.net right2parent

    thurston861, what part of idiot do you not understand. You need to do a little research into the structure of the courts before you get your panties in a bunch. Go pull the limbs off someone and leave the argument for rational people.

    That should get some name calling and capitalized words going. You seem to beleive in some kind of ancient rights, but you know nothing about the right affected when the government takes control of your children. That’s what this is all about.

  • chas

    A one line summary of my post 12: Cultural Marxism isn’t about us burning incense to Vladimir Lenin; it’s about us burning incense to John Lennon. :)

  • thurston861

    The Media ignoring of Ron Paul, who would actually follow limited government of the constitution, which would be the environment we need to get our Rights and Family life back, is evidence of the Marxist Materialist Conspiricy.

    It is not feigned. It is REAL.

    Roger Read the History of Habeas Corpus, it is Alexander’s Sword to the Legal System and their paultry diseased bastard child of stare decisis.

    R2P, you are asinine. THe U.S. Supreme Court states that the Right exists, and you and the Courts have the audacity to state that the Right does not exist and is waived upon the engagement of counsel and the Petition to a Court which holds itself out to adjudicate that Right.

    Your are a Trewasonous Marxists.

    WHAT PART OF UNALIENABLE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND!?

    Juvenile Court is where the State has custody of teh Child, not Family Court, and if such has been so assumed, it is a GROSS violaton fo the Rights of the People.

    Assumed!

    There is no assumtion in the LAW. Such is PREJUDICIAL and UNCOSNTITUTIONAL. It violates ancient Rights. (Treasonous blige)

    R2P-if you really believe what you wrote, it makes me want to hurle and pull limbs off people, YOU ARE MY ENEMY.

  • http://citizensrule.net right2parent

    California courts ruled correctly, that a proceeding for custody “in family court” does not implicate natural rights. That’s because it is assumed they are dealing with a ward of the state. That’s all they can do. The problem is, no one is challenging their jurisdiction to proceed where guardianship is held by right, and where a petition to this court fails to state a claim to the contrary. Family courts are legislative courts, not courts of general jurisdiction.

    It is true that there iis no such thing as a “natural right to guardianship,” in the context of these kind of hearings. This kind of court deals with children who have no natural guardian. It is assumed the right has been lost or abdicated.

  • http://www.antipeonage.0catch.com Roger Knight

    I find it much simpler to scream for the enforcement of the Peonage Law. All of this analysis can be ignored.
    But a federal indictment based on something as simple as the proposition that you cannot use anyone’ debts. obligations or responsibilities as an excuse to enslave,
    cannot be so easily ignored.
    Meticulously untying the Gordian Knot of non-law we face may be an interesting intellectual exercise, but unfortunately as effective as doing crossword puzzles in recovering out Constitutional rights.
    The Peonage Law is the Alexander’s Sword we need to deploy.

    But the federal grand juries will not enforce the AntiPeonage Act if we keep it a secret.

  • chas

    “Feigning an imaginary Marxist conspiracy is barking up the wrong tree and distracts from getting serious and engaging the enemy”.

    The problem, with these cultural Marxists in thee US is they are unaware they have outlived their reason for existing. They think they are normal, and everyone else must follow them, down the same road to utopia. In the cold war, both sides did many things to weaken their enemy. This is not about communism or about economics at all. This hippy movement was about popularizing how cool it was to abrogate and reject authority and power at every level of society. It has since taken on a life of its own. It is based on lies like power corrupts. Possibly half of our population are reeds blowing in the wind. It is lived out every day, everywhere in the US, by people who have this attitude; nobody has the right to tell me what to do. Every form of coercion, control or use of power is called abuse. It is behind the psychology, that parents spanking their children damages the child, and causes the child to become violent, or that strict parenting causes adolescents to rebel against their parents. It is behind the feminism of stripping from wedding vows that wife must obey her husband; come on honey, let’s renew our wedding vows, it’ll be so romantic. It is behind the feminization of men. I would plead with any normal redneck man, never even think about marriage or parenting, unless you have the authority and power to lead. If you don’t, the state, the experts, your wife, and the children, will turn your greatest blessing, into your greatest nightmare, and blame it on you. This rejection of authority is also changing everything about managing the workplace. It is behind all the racial profiling nonsense, and blacks’ general refusal to cooperate with police investigation of crimes. It is behind the immigrant’s rights movement, where some cities say they won’t ask Illegal immigrants their status, because they want them to cooperate in criminal investigations and not be hostile to the police. I’ve even heard the same argument used about the homeless might not cooperate. It is behind the anti-war nonsense that we are the source of our enemies’ hostility, and our military being there it the reason terrorists recruit more terrorists. It is behind the idea that we can’t impose religion or morality. It is behind the neglect of patriotism. If you have fallen for any of these lies, you have been affected by cultural Marxism; it’s a popularized pee in your pants cowardice about your way of life. It causes the social chaos of the US breaking down at every level at the same time. The only way to stop it is to restore everyone’s confidence and courage in God, family, and country, everywhere it has done its damage, and restore the God given authority, to kick people’s a–. If not, we will be very easily be conquered, by the next Napoleon wannabe, who knows our Achilles heel, and decides to finish, what the Soviets started, and didn’t survive to complete.

  • thurston861

    California Law is WRONG. Period

    The U.S. Supreme Court has spoken otehrwise that a Parent has the right to the companionship and society of their Children.

    California is in violation of the Law of the Land.

    The Judges responsible for that ruling should be placed on trail until found guilty and then promptly shot without an appeal, since the words of the U.S. Supreme Court do not matter.

    Time for Habeas Corpus on a mass scale.

  • wls1

    Feigning an imaginary Marxist conspiracy is barking up the wrong tree and distracts from getting serious and engaging the enemy. The special interests like the women’s groups and the divorce industry are being given free reign to shape family law to their advantage, by the inaction of fathers and other concerned citizens. It’s much more a democratic than a nanny system: you have to assert yourself politically—no one’s going to do it for you. If you don’t show up the other side wins.

    Current law includes, for example in California, the precedent that in family court “neither parent is entitled to custody as a matter of right”. Once the court accepts a motion or petition regarding custody or dissolution from either parent, neither parent has the rights they previously had had under other areas of law against state-initiated intervention or other interference. There is no such thing as a “natural right to guardianship.”

    This is where a statutory and case law-based reform program must begin.

  • Thomas

    Stephen,

    Thank You for writting this excellent Article. Rational, logical and intuitive – it needs not numbers or studies – clearly describing how far the escapades of family courts are from our basic understanding of morality and sensibility.

    Tom

  • http://citizensrule.net right2parent

    I tried to make this point in another blog, but it seems appropriate here.

    A father’s natural right to guardianship, is a status that protects the marital relationship. The state is failing to protect the marital relationship, which is clearly in its best interest, by failing to recognize and protect a father’s inalienable right.

    Mothers and fathers have different rights and responsibilities in their respective parent and child relationships. Those rights must be equally protected within the class of fathers or within the class of mothers. The notion of some kind of equal right to parent is only true when the two come before a legislative court to ask it to determine the placement of a state ward.

    This so-called family law “system” is a system that the state needs to deal with the result of the excersize of its parens patriae power. The existence of this power in our system of government is questionable, and often debated. The power is, however, recognized, with little is discussion about its very real limitations.

    Fathers need to learn the rights and responsibilities they enjoy as fathers. A so-called Family Court is there to deal with the children you can’t or will not take responsibility for. The children’s care and custody are intrusted to fathers by right. The fact that you can, or that you will take care of them, determine whether costody is an issue in these kind of hearings.

    A father’s petition or counter-petition for this kind of court to pick a guardian effectively abdicates his status as their natural guardian. A father is then treated as any other applicant for the guardianship of a state ward, under “best interest” standard of review, which is proper in this legislative proceeding. If a father wants to protect his right to parent, he needs to understand how and when the right is threatened. Key to understanding the how and when is a knowlege of the structure of our court system and state welfare laws. If he wants to protect his status as a natural guardian, he has to challenge a petitioner or the state to provide evidence that he has lost this natural status. If a petition for custody raises no issue of fitness, it fails to state a claim for custody. If a parent maintains this status, custody is not an issue a family court can decide.

    While it is generally perceived that parents enjoy the same right to guardianship, the truth is we have been misled to beleive it. Mr. Baskerville rightly suggests the state “assumes” the role of surrogate father. The problem is, no one is questioning their lawful right to do so in every case. What has become automatic, needs to be vigorously challenged.

  • hmh1497

    Thank you, Stephen Baskerville, for that eloquent description of the utter despotism we face. I’ve read (something Jefferson once wrote) that we not only have a responsibility to get rid of this tyranny but a duty to do it. Your work is always appreciated.

    And this guy, Thomas Paine, had a few words to remind us how right we are to keep on keeping on, while exposing the violations to our precious rights to raise our own kids. Baldwin is no doubt liberal and he sees the injustice. Conservatives and liberals, capitalists and Marxists, alike cannot deny the vicious behavior of those who would take our children.

    “I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” —Thomas Paine

  • Ray Blumhorst

    It’s misleading and silly to attribute it all, `vast conspiracy’ fashion, to “the government” a la Big Brother. The divorce industry is an imperium in imperio: if you don’t understand that, you’ll never defeat it.

    I see how one could view divorce court as sovereignty within sovereignty, as an institution existing to serve itself, but the problem can also be viewed in the larger context of the cultural Marxism that is being pushed onto the whole of American society.

    Judgmental ism does little to add to an understanding of either context, where explanation would add greater clarity. People are entitled to their opinions, and through much council, perhaps wisdom is found.

    The divorce industry does not exist in a vacuum, insulated from the influence of other cultural forces. Given the indoctrination of cultural Marxism, and the nanny state, into society from established societal institutions like entertainment, education, news media, and leftist politics, one can see multiple forces contributing to the demise of Fathers and men in legal and other venues.

    The misandry men are facing today in divorce court should certainly be considered from those facets of influence as well, in my opinion. The divorce courts/divorce industry would not be nearly so powerful and effective in destroying good Fathers and men, without all the support they are getting beyond the bounds of their own sovereignty, IMO.

    http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/MRA_06/Misc/CulturalMarxismIsAnEvilParent.jpg

    http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/MRA_06/Misc/CulturalMarxismAnEndlessCelebration.jpg

  • mruffolo

    The American government desires to drive families into trouble, because solving problems is big business.

    It creates jobs, big budgets and revenue.

    Divorce creates money for lawyers, judges, social workers, housing (rental and ownership), and their support staff. For example, when a man is forced out of house leaving most of possessions behind, he now needs to purchase things and get a place to stay.

    With support at around 60% of your net income, he’ll need to get another job. More spending and more jobs mean more taxes too.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070510/federal_budget.html?.v=10

  • red pill

    If you are ever at a loss as to why there is a disproportionate legal and legislative emphasis on the women and children and maintaining their distance and independance from their manipulation by their evil menfolk, understand that women and children have become the easiily manipulated bait for the men that are charged to care for them and redirect this effort from the benefit of the home and future to be willingly diverted to the state through the perception of victimhood by the naive and unrealistic. Nothing will change, NOBODY of significance will address it. Even the local mens rights oriented officers of the court are willing to address this issue only through a veil, only one case at a time (at retail rates), not setting much precedent and what precedent has been set is violated in application and rendereed impotent defacto if not dejur. While I love this land of opportunity we are witnessing the leaders and cultural illuminati of it now willingly presiding over culturally eating our own for the benefits of those gatekeepers and philospherkings that have created the maze with its minotaur we rats now have to crawl through.
    Occams razor as a method of objective efficiency and measure of propriety now lays permanantly dull and rusted…

  • scottkirk

    the Alec balwin affair is one of the best things thats happenned to fathers rights groups in this country since the duke false rape fiasko.

  • roger

    He spoke regrettable words.

    Let this be a lesson to those in similar circumstances – do NOT leave messages of this sort on voice mail or recording machines.
    Better yet – stear clear of making such statements. Find another way of showing your child that you are upset.

    But don’t incriminate yourself.







Right.

Man up.

Buy the book now on Amazon.com. Or listen to Ronnie tell a story at escaping-from-reality.com.

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