I disagree with him on a few points, but agree on far more.

The judge, who was continually filling out forms and rarely looked away from her paperwork, asked a hulking heavy lifter in a cut-off tee shirt if he could manage to pay $5000 a month. My friend said this guy probably wouldn’t see that kind of money in a year. Case after case was like this. An elderly black woman was present with her minister; she owed $30,000. The minister couldn’t do anything. A twenty-five year old woman was summoned to the court on account of back child support–she had been out of work. Her boyfriend was present. The judge even asked the boyfriend if he had any money. When he said he did not, the woman was led away in handcuffs. An Egyptian businessman was present who had paid his wife $2000 directly. It didn’t count: it had to be paid to the court.

The point is that it isn’t necessary to walk in their shoes to see the injustice of a system in which child support is structured as a fine that has to be paid to the court.
The theory that you need to walk a mile in those person’s shoes to understand the injustice against them is a manipulative, solipsistic put-down. And for lack of a predictive theory of human behavior, the question of what it feels like to walk in someone else’s shoes is too touchy-feely to be of any practical consequence.

They need to write more, become more prominent, and eventually help shift the sensibilities of the mass media to pay attention to men’s causes.

Gonz and Glenn are like MRA Yin and Yang, only oscillating their forces.

Each man can write very logically or very emotionally.

(So, FU all you feminazis who want to dismiss men as deficient in both intellectual and emotional I.Q.’s.)

If Marc and Lis can have a weekly face-off on msnbc — why not Glenn and Gonz?

Well, Gonz, you would have to lose the Indiana accent. And Glenn, wax your eyebrows.

You dudes would be great! (on ‘Net streaming tee-vee!)

So much pain. And not only for the guys…for the poor kids.

Gonzman…you sure can write, and your feelings are very moving. May God give you all strength on this father’s day.

TMOTS

men hit from the blues…….women hit from the yellows!

My wife had attempted what she had called suicide by trying to cut off her finger. That involved a couple more operations within that same three year period and it involved over three months of me taking her back and forth to the hospital’s rehab center three times a week for rehab treatments on her finger. She had severed both tendons on her finger. To this day she doesn’t have use of her finger.

I was informed that three days after she was released from that so-called shelter, she was forcibly (twice) comitted to a mental hospital by doctors. When she was taken to the hospital because of yet another suicide attempt, I was warned by friends that if I tried to call the emergency room in order to see how she was doing, I would be arrested! That so-called shelter employed some kind of indoctrination procedure or mind control on our 17 year old special needs daughter because she began claiming she was RAPED when she was 5 years old by another 5 year old immediately after leaving that state-supported ‘terrorist’ organization posing as a battered women’s shelter. My now ex-wife remains under the care of mental health professionals.

As mentioned previously, I walked around for days (if not weeks) in a complete daze …unable to comprehend what was happening to me, since I had NEVER been involved in the legal system before. I kept asking myself, ‘How could this happen in America?’ Looking back, I am lucky in one respect that our children (our son was out of the house on his own) weren’t of a very young age …else I myself, would have tried suicide or perhaps I might have evolved into another Darren Mack in regards to exacting revenge upon the one-sided legal system. I guess my biggest mistake was believing the propaganda of ‘Innocent until PROVEN guilty’ in a court of law. I can see that my situation pales in comparisom to yours or Mr. Mack’s but at that time I thought my world had come to an end. I divorced my wife of 29 years. She got everything (the house, the furniture and full custody of our daughter who at that time refused to even talk to me when it was allowed for her to visit me some months later. I have since found out that LIES, DECEPTION and MANIPULATION are important tools used throughout our so-called “?justice?” system by those in the abuse indu$try!

God Bless You guys. I have no idea of the pain.

Their mother had taken them from CA to Colorado for Christmas. She made sure that they didn’t call me the week of Christmas. I was moving from an apartment to homeless, had a car that I thought would die any day, thought I could sleep in it. (A year or two later the VA – decades after the 60’s, found PTSD, some brain damage, a bit of damage to my body, and they gave me therapy, college for my kids and a disability pension. the called it an “award” not charity. Although my wife, her ex, act as if it’s charity from their taxes, or so they tell the kids who know that neither my X or her husband spent time in the military)

I took my few remaining dollars for dinner Christmas eve – after checking the last item left in the cold and empty apartment, my phone/answering machine, waiting for a message, waiting to get a number where I could call my children. No red light beeping Christmas eve, or Christmas day, or the days after. I bought a few beers … skipped the dinner Christmas eve.

A few days later I unplugged the phone and moved out to start the new year homeless. I spent hours and hours thinking about how I had taken care of the kids while she got her masters, and a good job, how I relocated to a small town to follow her “career” and how she was with them, snow falling, for two weeks at Christmas and New Years, opening presents, and for sure keeping the away from the phone.

I would not have done that to her. I was angry with me, with her, with the world… it’s not a good time to screw around with a man and his children when things are falling apart … act too calm and the courts act as if you don’t care. Show anger and they want to know if you can be a good parent. There is no pressure on the mom. Mom’s are a given. If they want the kids they don’t have to prove they are competent.

I wanted to beat their mothers face in because … and of course I wouldn’t. I knew I would see them again. I knew that if a man messed with me and came between me and my kids I would want to fight him. I think that’s what happens sometimes… the deck is stacked, you roll over and take it, or you fight, both ways a man will lose his children.

I have wondered how many men, who lived with years of violence as children, or who had suffered from the military who have some problems as adults but who could be good parents with minimual social support and counseling, just don’t get it. They do their best but their best isn’t good enough. Truth is, they must be better people than the wife to get custody. It’s she, not he, ,who gets the free pass for being less than perfect.

I have no idea how horrible it must be to lose your kids for years – Just not hearing from them Christmas, just having the fear that the courts would give their mother soul custody, or perhaps keep me away, – PTSD and all, filled me with dread. Those thoughts made me feel crazy (ier) … Luckily I had friends who showed up to get me through it. Luckily I got therapy and my therapists were aware that I could parent “well enough” and that I had done a good job with my kids and could prove it… and because I had been the primary caretaker, and ONLY because I had been the primary caretaker, I had a fighting chance. The bottom line was simple. “If the X said I wasn’t able to be a good parent when divorced, why did she tell so many others how good I was before we divorced” … if not primary caretaker I would have lost them. If I hadn’t gotten counseling and help from the VA I would have lost them.

I was a good dad, not a great dad, but a good dad. My daughter at 18 and son 22 will tell you that. Yet I knew that the courts could take my children from me. I would rather be the lone isolated guard trapped by prisoners in an army prison, and beaten, on a regular basis, then to lose my children for weeks or months. I would rather be raped then to lose my children. (Feminists would challenge me on that – they would lose)

To lose your children for years, to have thousands of men losing their childrens for years of their lives, … it’s impressive that more men haven’t picked up a weapon to find justice. And maybe it’s because more men haven’t that few take men who lose children seriously.

A women who lost her children to the courts and who killed a judge, or X partner would be understood, forgiven, sent to counseling after a brief time in jail. Others would “get it” that she had been pushed too far, lost too much. Mr G laid it out, brilliantly. If you have lost your children for days or weeks, or faced losing them for years, you have the shadow of a clue.

But for men who got raped by the courts, who know, day after day that they were raped by the courts, and the courts don’t care, well, I understand Glenn’s views and political position. And I really do understand why some men “go off” … and I am glad men usually don’t. Still, I must wonder, if more men did, would the judges start to listen? Especially if judges were the target? Sometimes I almost wish those fathers who lost children would push the courts towards fairness with violence. Why? Because begging, pleading, or simply rolling over for the courts, for decades, doesn’t seem to have helped bring fairness to fathers yet.

I got my girlfriend pregnant when I was 16, and have been paying child support my entire adult life. I have never missed a payment, no matter how exorbitant or unreasonable. And that by the grace of God.

I am now 35, and it is finished.

For those here willing and able, raise up a toast, and say Here, Here!

There is one less man with fangs in his neck, and a boot crushing his skull. Although the scars will remain.

I admire the Gonzman for his track record too but also disagree with his major point of critique of Glenn. The fact that so many men haven’t gone through the pain is one major reason that no one takes any friggin’ notice of the fact that the Law and its servants are corrupt. Women don’t join us in droves because they don’t get the boot in the face that men get. But men and women both, have a brain and intelligence and empathy and can easily do the mental and emotional work to understand. Glenn does understand. That’s why he is in the Men’s business and why he does so much good work.

I do agree with the heartfelt position that Gonz takes. I’ve been there too. I have the tee-shirt.

There are many ways in which MRAs challenge the system. Those with patience chip away at it via emails, protests, signs on utes outside the courthouse, letters to the Editor, blog writing, commentary etc, all ‘peaceful’. We have been doing this for years and consciousness is slowly rising. Far too slowly.

Some active men have particular ways of fighting that sits well within their comfort zone. Some are pushed outside that zone into hard territory where our actions and reactions are quite primal.

Primal drive and action are not bad. It is nature, directing. Putting reins on it and have it drag a cart is what is needed and sorely missing from the MRM.

Otherwise good men get tipped over the edge daily. The courts take no more notice of their distress than needed just to jeer. We do not need, as Glenn is doing here, to jeer or condemn either. We need to harness it.

Here is my prediction of how things will unfold. The good and mild guys will continue to protest and the powers that be will continue to ignore them; some really good men will be held back by friends who know what a good idea getting too pissed to stand up can be; but there will be a rising tide of justifiable anger that will spill over into violence.

The Tailors, like Mack, will fit more and more corrupt, uncaring – in fact vicious – Judges with a Full Metal Jacket. In 10 years time every active men’s group that makes any sort of mark, will have an assassin.

Good.

It is meet and just.

The system is not going to fizzle out or change for the better without bloodshed. Terrible though that thought might be. There will be more Darrens, there will be more dead Judges.

Embrace your inner Darren.

If a thief broke in at night and tried to kidnap your child, which of you would not shoot him?

Is it more or less right that the stealing is done under color of law? Done with a facade of justice under the tyranny of the state. I say less. All the pretenses make it all the more evil.

If every father reacted as Darren Mack, the tyranny would have ended a generation ago. The ultimate cost would have been less.

Darren Mack chose the path of Patrick Henry. Give me freedom or give me death.

I, for one, will not judge him in this matter.

They didn’t shoot or stab anybody (I heard you thinking out loud). You would be correct. But is systematically driving a person to kill themself all in the name of profit less merciless than shooting them?

Empathize with Mr. Mack? Sure. But if you insist I will serve as his executioner….. but only after all the mass murderers in the family court business have crossed my gallows first.

to this day, my 33 year old son knows that his mother was a lieing feminist. she still doesn’t get it. thats ok with me.

To condemn Darren Mack is like condemning Nat Turner and Sparticus. It is like condemning the Massachusetts Minutemen for letting the British have it at Concorde North Bridge. It is like condemning the Jews for killing the commandant to get the keys to the weapons locker and using the guns to shoot their way out of Sobibor.

If the judges are too pig headed to follow the law, and the public is indifferent, then what are we to do? Had Judge Weller died from his wounds, all I would have to say is:

Sic semper tyrannis.

The black slaves of the South were not liberated by polite letters and peaceful demonstrations. Neither were the Jews in the concentration and death camps.

If this makes me a whack job, then I am a whack job.

Whack jobs like me created the United States. Liberated the black slaves. Martin Luther King, Jr. was listened to because whack jobs like Malcolm X said things like “We will not be nonviolent with those who are not nonviolent with us.” Whack jobs fought the Germans in the Warsaw Ghetto rather than meekly board the train for Treblinka.

The First Amendment protects our right to speak out against this tyranny.

The Second Amendment is for when people don’t listen.

Again, having no credibility with national media at stake (nor a care about it if I did), I affirm that I can extend sympathy to a man whose ultimate decisions I also condemn.