Working Dads Struggle More!
Marc Rudov Debates Lis Wiehl
on
FNC’s Your World with Neil Cavuto: 06.15.07
“Who Struggles More — Working Moms or Working Dads?”
VOTE for the Winner of the Debate!
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June 15th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
You’re doing a great job Marc. This woman’s position on a “conservative” network shows just how ingrained the feminist fiction is within our society. I don’t doubt this woman’s income is very well into six-figures – and her husbands is undoubtledly at least what hers must be. These women simply refuse to marry “down”!
The Denverpost in 2004 did a profile on a new Petroleum Engineering grad at the Colorado School of Mines. This 22 year old female was starting, with a Bachelor’s degree, at the precise salary I was earning at the age of 45 even though I have three degrees including business, engineering, and a Master’s in Systems Management. There IS a wage gap, and it favors women who get educations equal to a man!
June 15th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Thank you, RScott.
Please vote for the debate’s winner at http://www.FoxFan.com (scroll halfway down the page, right-hand column)
June 15th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
IMO:
Lis Wiehl appeared particularly patronizing to Marc today. Marc did a very nice job in not allowing her condescending comments and mannerisms set the tone of the debate. It appeared to me Wiehl found herself losing the debate again today and had only personal insults as her retorts.
Wiehl might appear more credible if she took some time to “think” before spewing her gender feminizied talking points, but since when has “intelligent thought” ever had any real influence on gender feminist propaganda?
I would have liked to have heard Marc mention “the available stats” on all the time that Fathers spend outside the home, working and commuting, as well as stats about the time Dads (and men) spend: fixing the roof, painting the house, mowing the lawn, changing the oil, building the room addition, etc., etc, etc. Considering the rigors of the debate Marc was in, it’s understandable that time did not allow all valid points their due.
Wiehl seems to think a Mom’s work is never done, but Dad’s never get off their couches to lift a finger. It’s really sad that such a Neanderthal (gender feminist) mentality has become so entrenched in our society, that it passes for enlightened commentary on a major news outlet.
Mr. Cavuto seemed to hinder the flow of cogent debate today, more than help. Some of his joking comments to Wiehl seemed ignorantly misandrist and just “kind of dumb.”
June 15th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Marc…..Have you proposed to appear on the O’rielly show???
June 15th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
I have been on The O’Reilly Factor. CLICK HERE to watch.
June 15th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
wiehl clearly grabbed the upper hand and maitained it thru out. cavuto strives to keep it balanced ( ratings ). that is not to our advantage as no forum and i mean NO forum in this land gives men a break at any level. in our society, a balanced debate is no debate. did our revolutionary forfathers look for balanced debate? i say stand and deliver with vigor or don’t be surprised when you get steamrolled.
i love rudov and enjoy his tips on dating and the way his mind works.
he is not winning the war of words with this shrew, in my opinion.
June 15th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
donnieboy57,
You are wrong. Lis and I have now debated nine times. Based on the mail I’ve been getting, men AND women feel that I have been a winner all along.
FNC began polling two weeks ago. I won that debate 63-37.
Last week, the polling began two hours BEFORE the debate started (an IT problem), and I lost.
Today, the polling also began two hours BEFORE the debate started (another IT problem), and I was way behind as a result. But, I have caught up and overtaken her — in spite of the IT glitch. This means I am really WAY ahead of her.
I have brought this polling problem to the attention of FNC execs, and they are going to fix it.
Clearly, donnieboy57, you have a minority opinion; that is OK with me.
June 15th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
marc..youre doing great…
women have been rocking the cradle without the father around for around 40 years now…and even our sons are going to find that questioning the women-as-victim paradigm is going to be really challengeing..
June 15th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
It’s an interesting coincidence that Fox News would have an “IT problem” which would cause people to vote two hours before your debates, and apparently vote against you no less.
When other individuals debate on Fox News, do they have “IT problems”?
Kind of like the IT problems they have with the computer voting machines not matching the exit polls during elections.
Maybe someone wanted to rig the results Marc.
Just a possibility……………………….
June 15th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
I just checked the poll results and Lis Wiehl is now trailing by 8% in the current Fox News poll. Maybe the IT problem Fox News is having (giving Wiehl uncast votes) is Fox News’s way of compensating for the poor performance of Wiehl in – “the debate gap.”
Maybe Fox News feels “equality of outcome” is so important in the debate gap between Rudov and Wiehl that they have to give Wiehl a head start – just like officials did for women in the Los Angeles marathon, year before last. That year a woman won. I can’t remember if they did that again last year or not. I wonder if any of those “gender norming” officials compensated for the heat, in the sexist time penalty they imposed on male runners who were made to start later in the day – but I digress?
Yes, Lis Wiehl, just like her gender feminist ideology, clearly appears to be losing in this debate poll so is Fox News’s persistent IT problem really a technical, or programming, glitch, or does Fox News feel a politically correct mandate to “gender norm” the debate so that the little gender feminist can be shown to be up to debating the facts presented by the big, bad man, even when all she has is “connected knowing” (women’s ways of knowing) conjured up from advocacy research, anecdotal evidence and other gender feminist propaganda tools?
When I see Wiehl being so self-righteously pompous, while presenting such asinine gender feminist tripe, her countenance appears to me the very pinnacle of overbearing obnoxiousness.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:12 am
I understand that it was likely impossible to respond to liz 76% trash in order to stay on point, but it would have been nice to see the word on that one get out. Have you done a debate with her on the wage gap and if not, is it possible to do one?
June 16th, 2007 at 4:32 am
I think Marc won, but then I know the “stats”. Wiehl complains about “making P,B, and Js” for the kids, but then women do everything possible, with the help of the family courts, to prevent the father and children from having any relationship with each other. Increasingly, women would rather harm the children than “allow” the father and children to show they do just fine without her. Essentially, “allowing” a father to be a father threatens their victimhood, while getting rid of him enables them to relish in it. And if there is one skill women far outperform men at time and again, its playing victim while having her cake and eating it too.
Two observations:
1. Cavuto was hell bent on helping Wiehl with every comment. I suppose he figures that’s the safe way to go, between chivalry and PC, it’s better to help a woman in the “whining cellar” than it is to be accurate, or even worse, cite some stats that show Marc is right and Wiehl is a feminist. Or is Cavuto worried, censoring himself, so his wife doesn’t cash him in at the nearest courthouse?
2. Cavuto stated that, if the results of the poll don’t turn out the way they want them to, then they’ll fix it somehow so it does. Hmmm. Sounds like the same attitude we get from our “justice system” all the time. It’s the same old “the woman better win or else you are sexist” hypocrisy.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:18 am
Nice job Marc.
Unreal how she realy believes that we men need lists and to be trained to do anything at all. What a freaking loon. I loved that you called her statement blatently sexist. Nice shot!
BTW, I was the primary name on the school nurses’ list. Not their mother.
Also, upon marriage, I informed my wife that if she ever gave me a “honey-doo” list, I would make her eat it. Half jokingly, half serious. She was never sure if I was or not, so she never gave me one.
Oh wait, I think that may abuse!
TMOTS
June 16th, 2007 at 6:37 am
Marc, its a shame that in the interest of time you simply are able to state the facts, and rarely have the chance to connect the dots…it isnt your fault, and apparently people know these things intuitively because you are scoring higher.
You were dead on today on this one, and you were able to draw out the utterly predictable set of beliefs that these insulated women are raised with. Cavuto…super nice guy, if he has daughters are going to end up like your opponent. He makes self effacing comments about his cooking etc. and that stuff is reflexive in controlled and feminised men.
Cyber hand shake Marc!
June 16th, 2007 at 6:45 am
marc: women revel in victomhood. we all know that. my point is not that you are not winning intellectually, you clearly are. its demographics that count. fox leans right. therefore, it stands to reason that you start with an edge, even if small, in votes. WE all support you but who cares. conservative women will tend to support you too. so? its the hearts and minds of the left who need to be reached. take a poll of those who watch the view, oporah and other countless feminist bildge and we know who will come out on top. hell, take a poll of the wives, girlfriends, sisters, aunts and mothers of all who post here and check the results. keep up the good fight. i certainly didn’t mean to be negative, just honest. i understand i am more of a hard ass and i intend to work on that….at some time in the future.
June 16th, 2007 at 8:17 am
I want to vote for the new American PRINCESS OF LIES awards for her oppenly changeing her 75 cents to the dollar faulty wage gap…
I can see glen sacks or someone announceing on a talk show…who will be the next princess of lies in america folks…cast youre vote here…
June 16th, 2007 at 8:25 am
who is the new american princess of lies…
who is the head spokeswomen who is cultivateing this feminist victim demagoguery, and the subsequent culture of anti-male hysteria…. that is leading to some serious equal protection constitutional violations for men/fathers/boys……..
June 16th, 2007 at 8:46 am
example…she beats him with a frying pan…and he gets arrested, and he then gets forced to plead guilty to a lesser charge….
June 16th, 2007 at 8:59 am
conserve..”he makes self effaceing comments about his cooking ect. ect.(this is subtle way to show subservience to the princess- It connotates a man with his back brocken so he can’t protect himself)..
And is reflexive (like pavlovs dogs)..in controlled and feminised men..
They have to continually show helplessness, and servility…else the princess be hard on him…
June 16th, 2007 at 9:49 am
I cannot respond to all these good comments.
Yes, we have debated, several times, on the wage gap. Please go to http://www.TheNoNonsenseMan.com — Media & Events page, Archived TV Interviews section — to watch those videos.
Fox News is NOT trying to rig the debate. It is a huge company. The website people and the TV people are NOT in the same organization. The TV people do not have the authority to tell the Website people what to do. The first vote was two weeks ago. THAT vote didn’t begin until 30 minutes AFTER the debate ended: I won 63-36. I spent an hour on the phone yesterday with Cavuto’s producer to help fix a number of Website issues. Over time, we will solve the problems. Look at it this way: this is the first time that the man’s perspective is heard on international TV, before two million viewers, every week.
To those of you who think I’m not winning, let me say this. The voting says I’m winning. The letters to Cavuto say I’m winning. Cavuto and his producers think I’m winning. Letters I receive from people around the world — men and women — say I’m winning.
For the foreseeable future, I will be on Cavuto’s show every Friday. Why? our segment is a ratings bonanza — a surprise to ALL of us involved. This will give me ample opportunity to make all the right points and to show that remaining logical and reasonable — and unafraid of a pretty blonde — is compelling.
If you guys vote for me at http://www.FoxFan.com, you can help make this even-more successful.
June 16th, 2007 at 11:19 am
Mark that sounds awesome… and the fact of the matter is that even if you weren’t winning you’d be helping just by being out there. EVERYONE knows the feminist position… we get inundated with the feminist position on everything… CONSTANTLY. We’re the group that has the knowledge gap that needs closing, so when any of us gets a national podium to provide our position and get folks thinking… it’s a good thing, a DAMN good thing.
Feminists won’t win converts though exchanges like this… sure the sheep will go on thinking that since everyone says 76 cents it must be true, but every once in a while one of those sheep will have the thought “well… since someone is arguing the point maybe the whole 76 cents thing ISN’T as ironclad as I thought”.
June 16th, 2007 at 11:22 am
oops… Marc not Mark… sorry!
June 16th, 2007 at 11:45 am
I believe I may have said this recently, but I take back every bad thing I’ve ever said about Marc Rudov. (I still don’t own his book….)
He is telegenic, articluate and reasoned in a manner that is almost never seen on TV / major web media these days.
I particularly like the way he LISTENS very closely to what that blonde girl — it’s Lis right — not the usual Liz? — has to say.
Lis is so outclassed that I expect very soon Marc will be debating a trio of feminazis. That will be justified at FOX as intellectual parity …. feminist math will be employed to justify the silliness.
The most important — and revealing thing — that Ms. Lis stated (twice) was — “YOU’RE (MEN) GREAT WHEN YOU’RE TAKING INSTRUCTIONS!”
Review the clip. She actually said that!
What further evidence of sexist ideology and gender fascism do you require?
The president of Harvard University got fired for far less incindiary hateful language than this blonde bimbo gets away with!
Fire Lis now!
Get Marc an intellegent woman to debate!
June 16th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Spelling errors nonwithstanding….
please write FOX to get Marc a better class of media girlfriend.
He surely has demonstrated that Lis is a talking head who needs to get a real job.
Can she t-y-p-e?
I would be happy to hire her to preefrood my posts!
Actually, that woman reminds me of my first high school girlfriend.
Big mouth. Small brain.
Good times!
June 16th, 2007 at 11:59 am
The father’s/men’s movement wins when, in a debate, a man has the opportunity to speak the truthfully about what he observes.
It helps if he gives in-depth analysis of a complex idea in men’s rights; supports main points with persuasive example; and, stays focused and organized.
It helps if he uses a story, almost a parable, to illustrate points.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/parables.html
Thanks Marc for helping spread the truth. Keep up the good work.
June 16th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
mruffolo – I would propose that “the father’s/men’s movement wins when…”
VAWA is repealed, the anti-Family Courts are reformed, and the word “misandry” is as common as “feminist.”
The debate is shaping up as a marathon, as you already understand.
June 16th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
davek “knowledge gap” good stuff man..were creating the new dialogue replete with all the new buzz words…
someone should start a mens rights buzzphraze dictionary…
June 16th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
dave k…this is a goog site to combat the “knowledge gap”…refer friends to it..
http://www.mens-links.net/home.asp
June 17th, 2007 at 1:43 am
Simply great!
The best thing is that Marc delivers all the important messages with a smile and complete composure, while Lis Wiehl comes across as struggling for arguments and trying to emotionaly manipulate the audience…
Marc, you are magnificent!
June 17th, 2007 at 7:07 am
When I voted yesterday Marc was up 56% to 44%. I just checked the latest results and Marc is now up 58% to 42%. Awesome work Marc.
June 17th, 2007 at 9:11 am
Hi DadWith2Girls,
I think the fact that Liz Weil is a ditsy blond is GOOD! Just the title of her book says loads about her intelligence level. If Marc was debating a smarter woman, he likely wouldn’t be doing as well as he is. Not because he isn’t good or because he isn’t right, but because the woman would be a whole lot better at lying and obfuscating.
I wish I was as good as Marc at thinking on my feet. I’m better at coming up with better stuff to have said well after it’s too late. There are plenty of times when he says things at the spur of the moment and I say to myself, “Gee, that was good! I never would have been able to come up with that !
Marc’s good and I’m really glad he’s the one representing us in this battle on Fox.
But then again, Marc, I wish you had said… when she said…. Just kidding! Just kidding!
June 17th, 2007 at 10:44 am
The next time Lis Wiehl brings up “the wage gap.” I would love to see these real gaps, that men (and boys) face, presented to her:
Gender-compassion gap
Disposability-gap (includes the suicide and work-fatality gaps)
Spending gap
Legal-responsibility gap
Chivalry gap
LIfe-expectancy gap
Thanks to Darrin of NCFM for making this list and sending it to me. As he stated, I’m sure there are more gaps for men that could go on that list.
June 17th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
ray…spending gap…legal responseability gap….we can work with these!!!
June 18th, 2007 at 10:13 am
I’m not sure I can even call this a debate in that it seemed that all Lis did was spout off bigoted, sexist nonsense. Unfortunately, this bigoted nonsense is taught on college campuses nationwide (which is undoubtedly where she “learned” it). Men aren’t put down as emergency contacts? Come on. We’re pretty good at “honey-do” lists? And we don’t know where the laundry detergent is? Normally, I just think Lis is wrong. This time, she was downright insulting. Does she even know any men? I have a solution for Lis: If she thinks men don’t do enough cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc., well, us men can just stay single. Because, for me personally at least, I was much less busy when I was single.
Here’s the thing that I think people like Lis just don’t understand, and that’s the sheer responsibility men feel for providing for themselves and others. I really, really don’t think most women get this. When women take a job, the mindset behind it is often to supplement the family income (for those who are still married). My parents’ relationship is like this, as is mine. I don’t recall my father ever taking a sick day. He went to work consistently, and unfailingly, despite hating his job. My mother took sick days when she wasn’t even sick, but simply didn’t feel like going to work.
Men worry about keeping a roof over our heads and food on the table, while women, apparently (based on Lis’ comments), keep score about who is doing the laundry more often. If a family faces a financial crisis, who has to deal with it? It’s going to be the man who has to take an extra job, work extra hours, sell his prized possession, etc. to make sure his family is secure. And, if the family decides that they make enough money so someone can cut back on work, it’s usually the woman who quits her job or drops to part-time.
But, of course, women may have to pick up a sick child from school sick once or twice a year (which men apparently never do), so I guess it all evens out.
I also like how Lis didn’t seem to disturbed about her inconsistent income disparity figure. That’s nice. If the figure is true, then it certainly matters what the correct number is. If it’s a bunch of BS, well, then you can just throw any old number out there, can’t you?
I do love women, but Lis is depressing if she represents anything more than a tiny minority of women. She’s practically exhibit A on why men shouldn’t get married.
Lis was terrible in this debate (to the extent that you can even call her performance a “debate”).
June 18th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Gentlemen:
The only “gap” I will continue to discuss is the reality gap. Too many lofty terms get lost in the white noise. Certain words and phrases work well on TV; others don’t.
People will remember my comment about women having no experience paying child support but lots of experience paying Victoria Secret. Did you see Lis’s reaction? People will remember that I implied that Lis doesn’t think (that comment upset my mother, but I don’t care).
The next time Lis complains about being underpaid, I have a special rejoinder planned. Stay tuned for continued fireworks.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:52 am
Check out the Rudov Rap by Genderwar.org
June 20th, 2007 at 11:00 am
Here are the latest poll results on the debate. Looks like Marc won, hands down.
I cannot believe that Lis speaks with such passion, as if she believes wholeheartedly in what she’s saying. That’s scary, that she would actually say that men excel when women give them direction. The next time she tries that, she needs to be called on it.
And what’s with Cavuto and his self-deprecating manner when he talks about whether his wife would approve? He’s the freakin’ host!!
June 20th, 2007 at 11:29 am
what is continually missed in the debates about money is the pain and suffering of men who die of miners lung, or from forestry accidents, or from wounds, injuries in combat.
Ellan Goodman and others discuss how horrid the workplace was in the 60’s so much discrimination against women, she didn’t get the corner office with a view, but while many of her male peers lost their lives – or eyesight and wouldn’t appreciate the view from the corner office, women like Goodman, who are stars in their careers pretend that men all get that corner office, big promotions and never once do they discuss male injuries or deaths – how much LOST income by men resulted from 58,000 dying in Viet Nam. (My personal peeve while living with a 100% disability from the army and while knowing that many veterans disabilities are far worse than mine. What can you do after 100% if a man is crippled, blind, war torn… you can’t give them 200% but some should have that…
Also, on Fox, someone should ask that Warren Farrell’s book “Why Men Earn More” should be in every feminist public classroom that is teaching the only reason men earn more is discrimination.