Perhaps the dropout crisis is no crisis
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution recently ran an editorial noting that Georgia has a lower high school graduation rate than other states and labeled it a âcrisisâ because those with limited educations are âpoorly equipped to compete for the high-skilled, knowledge-driven jobs.â
However, perhaps part of the problem lies in the entire concept of the âdropout.â Different people should complete their formal educations at different levels and, for some, the tenth grade might indeed be that level. It is also reasonable to suppose that different people should enter the workforce or marry at very different ages.
The contemporary trend has been to extend education, and to a large extent the nebulous state of âadolescenceâ with its peculiar combination of rebelliousness and financial and emotional dependence, through older and older age groups.
Any diploma or degree is to a large extent a âsignalâ of a personâs competency. If everyone gets a particular type of certification, it ceases to have any real meaning.
The AJC quotes Diplomas Count researcher Christopher B. Swanson as saying, âIf you do not finish high school, you are relegated to the worst jobs in the economy.â A host of unexamined assumptions lie in that statement. What determines the âworst jobsâ? Paying jobs need to be performed even if they are menial or involve manual labor or do not pay well. All honest work should be regarded as having dignity since some people must take those jobs if the economy is to function.
Perhaps what we need to do is to re-evaluate our entire approach to the subject of education. Instead of calling someone a âdropoutâ we should talk about the particular point at which he or she completed formal schooling. We also need to see it as a matter of course for those who wish to enter the âreal worldâ of work when they are young to pick up their formal education later if they so desire. The GED should be regarded as just as good as the high school diploma. It is at least conceivable that mature people with some years in the labor market under their belts are more likely to benefit and really learn from formal education than frustrated teenagers who are in high school marking time simply because they believe it is expected of them to be there.
Those in high school, like those in college and other educational institutions, should be there because they want to learn the sorts of knowledge and skills being taught and are open to doing so. Young people who are bored in high school are unlikely to learn much. They are apt to spend their time watching the clock, ignoring the teacher, and razzing other kids. Having a large group of students who are learning nothing and would rather be elsewhere is not profitable for them or for society as a whole. Indeed, it may even be lethal to pressure youths to stay in school if they hate being there. Wouldnât Columbine High School have been a lot better off if Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had simply left a place that had become a pit of torment to them?
| More from Denise Noe
Stumble It!
June 23rd, 2007 at 5:01 am
Here in Chicago, there is a program through DeVry where you go there for High School and walk out 3 years later with you HS diploma as well as a degree in computers. Mr. Short, my oldest son’s 6th grade teacher wants to recommend him for it, but my very well behaved passive agressive son hates school and just very politely refuses to do his work. But i’d bet alot of HS age young men would benefit from programs like this as opposed to what passes for HS today. We have explained that this is a two-fer. I will continue to push and pray, where else can you get a degree and only pay for books? Maybe bringing back scared straight programs wouldn’t hurt either.
June 23rd, 2007 at 6:36 am
Sorry ladies but I find this post and response simply preposterous and as posted on MND are directed towards males. Apparently neither of you have read Christina Hoff Sommersâ book “The War Against Boys.” Sister Sommers is apparently the only one well enough educated to understand the problem.
It is ridiculous to conclude that either men or women donât benefit from at least twelve years of education and I suggest that education is a lifetime process. It is a matter of proper motivation and full realization of the distinct differences between men and women. Contrary to popular female thinking, boys and girls need different motivation and techniques and trying to make boys act like little girls is destroying young males desire to continue education.
Education is more than parroting âfactsâ which females do better then men on average. Education is or should be defined as training the mind to apply reason and logic to a given set of data and produce a productive successful outcome. Men far surpass women in this aspect. Ending feminist control of education and permitting boys to be boys will solve the sorry state of American education.
June 23rd, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Some learn differently from others and at different stages of life. I was a terrible student in my teens; king of the truants in my school. It was a good school too. I barely put in two full days a week and dropped out at 16. I much prefered riding my bike all over Warwickshire, swimming in rivers, climbing hills, exploring old castle ruins and more recent gun emplacements, sitting beside a river at a nice country pub with a pint of Newcastle Brown.
I woke to study after the first 6 or 7 years in the military. I did a degree in 2 years, part time; another at honours in three, also part time and both whilst holding down a 70 hours a week military career job; and a Masters in one.
Even bright boys can be intellectually cramped by the school classroom. Many, like me at that time, needed action; the small adventures of youth; the exploratory impulse is high, and the rules, especially the ‘quiet’, ‘conforming’ ones simply irritate. I would be there at school on the days we played rugger but bugger the rest.
The structure of the classroom is feminine geared. Create the ambience suitable for boys and the boys might stay in it. It certainly isn’t just an issue of intellectual capacity.
No one I know considers this: there is more to fill in a boy.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:45 am
Lloyd Selberg said,
Sorry ladies but I find this post and response simply preposterous and as posted on MND are directed towards males. Apparently neither of you have read Christina Hoff Sommersâ book “The War Against Boys.” Sister Sommers is apparently the only one well enough educated to understand the problem.
It is ridiculous to conclude that either men or women donât benefit from at least twelve years of education and I suggest that education is a lifetime process.
(Denise) I strongly agree that “education is a lifetime process.” Perhaps for some people, the best education is in the “real world” of work rather than the academic world of the classroom. If people end formal schooling at 16, they don’t stop learning. They may learn a great deal on the job and elsewhere.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:50 am
Denise:
Have you read Sommersâ book “THE WAR AGAINST BOYS?”
To suggest âPerhaps the dropout crisis is no crisisâ is sheer lunacy.
Before people, especially males, learn from life experience, they must learn the basics, how to learn, to apply reason and logic to facts and develop a love of knowledge. They must have a positive learning experience in their formative years.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:38 am
Lloyd Selberg said,
Denise:
Have you read Sommersâ book “THE WAR AGAINST BOYS?”
(Denise) No, I have not.
To suggest âPerhaps the dropout crisis is no crisisâ is sheer lunacy.
Before people, especially males, learn from life experience, they must learn the basics, how to learn, to apply reason and logic to facts and develop a love of knowledge. They must have a positive learning experience in their formative years
(Denise) I’m just saying that people may wish to leave off formal education at different time periods and that we should not necessarily oppose that practice.
I have long suggested that schools need to be more aware of differing learning styles. The receptive learning style which is most amenable to listening to lectures, taking notes, and reading, is more common among girls and is the style to which most formal schooling is currently oriented. The active learning style, which consists of taking things apart and putting them back together again and exploring one’s environment, is more common in boys. We need more classes with a structure that allows for the more active learning style.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
I see where Denise Noe is going with this and I like it: People should have a variety of options in how they pursue their life.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
PolishKnight said,
I see where Denise Noe is going with this and I like it: People should have a variety of options in how they pursue their life.
Just what options are you suggesting? It’s ok to be ignorant and choose to spend one’s life making all of the possible errors an educaton might have prevented. It’s OK to live in ignornt bliss as it ones right.
An ignorant person has the same right to make choices as to how society is governed in a democracy. Why do we have a society that that ignores reason and logic in favor of political correctness?
âOne trend that bothers me is the glorification of stupidity, that itâs all right not to know anything.â – Carl Sagan
June 25th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Considering how many boys are growing up in a virtually seemless matriarchy, it’s tempting to see the high drop out rate as a Good Thing and a sign of hope for the future. It’s only a crisis for the control freaks and those in the schooling bureaucracy whose incomes depend on a steady stream of bodies to process.
Having taught at both the community college and local university branch level, I know there are plenty of kids who are just riding the schooling conveyer belt without much purpose or intent simply because they can. My best students were always those who had had a decade or so in the ‘real world’ and had become motivated to get courses and degrees they needed to do what they wanted to do and get where they wanted to be. It was definitely harder for them to do school and work and family, but they got way more out of it and appreciated it more. So it may be premature to condemn those who drop-out in their mid-teens to permanent life-long loser status.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Lloyd Selberg said
“To suggest âPerhaps the dropout crisis is no crisisâ is sheer lunacy. ”
It is a crisis, I have two living it. No. 3 in 3 years.
“Before people, especially males, learn from life experience, they must learn the basics, how to learn, to apply reason and logic to facts and develop a love of knowledge. They must have a positive learning experience in their formative years.”
Heres the problem with that, they are not getting anything positive out of school.
They are not learning any logic , emotion yes, logic no.
Why am I at a Mens site? Public education brought me here, the common sense has kept me here. Seeing mistakes i’ve made with mine when I was single, and being able to change “my” attitude has been very beneficial to my boys. This is a fantastic site, you may not think women don’t belong here, but the fact is we are raising boys and not all of us are looking for them to be mommas boys.
Until education gets a major overhaul (i’m not holding my breath) the least amount of time spent in prek thru 12, the better. However I don’t know about anyone elses experience w/special ed. But, my middle son has been doing fantastic. The teachers are more creative and more hands on, he has tested thru the roof.
my 2 cent
June 25th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
MartianBachelor said: Having taught at both the community college and local university branch level, I know there are plenty of kids who are just riding the schooling conveyer belt without much purpose or intent simply because they can. My best students were always those who had had a decade or so in the ‘real world’ and had become motivated to get courses and degrees they needed to do what they wanted to do and get where they wanted to be.
(Response) Your experiences are certainly true for community college and local university branch level, but not necessarily for major universities. My years in sixties as a student at U of Kansas were very different from my years working at U. of Missouri Kansas City.
Students all but lived in the Chemistry Department, Mallott Hall at KU and there were at minimum half a dozen present 24-7, 365 days a year. One was lucky to find anyone in the chemistry department after six or on weekends at UMKC.
At KU students were motivated by the desire for knowledge and the thrill of scientific discovery. At UMKC students were seeking only a piece of paper awarding them a degree.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
debi912 said: Hereâs the problem with that, they are not getting anything positive out of school.
They are not learning any logic, emotion yes, logic no.
(Response) In our feminized and litigious society where everything is too dangerous and subject to legal liability the male approach of hands on with acceptable risk to leaning is impossible. In todayâs world benzene and metallic mercury are reasons to call for protective suits and specially trained crews to deal with these highly dangerous materials.
In the sixties, it was common practice for organic chemist to wash their hands in benzene and kids to amalgamate pennies with mercury. One kid attempted to make nitro-glycerin in my dadâs high school chemistry class and successfully made enough to send hot con-nitric acid spraying a lab bench. Electrolyzing water into hydrogen and oxygen and collecting the mix in glass Coke bottles and igniting the explosive mix was high school chemistry. Amazing but boys found this âcool.â
The UMKC chemistry department had a good source of most chemicals necessary to do basic research until about 1991 when it was determined that they were too dangerous. Most chemistry lab experiments were reduce to paper.
Boys thrive and learn their limits on an element of danger. Unlike women, they want to shoot guns and make loud explosions, show physical prowess, take risk and test authoritative limits. All this has been removed and if they donât act like little girls they are punished. Boys arenât motivated to learn when forced to act like girls. The boys reason and logic and natural instincts are subordinate to female emotion.
Proof that our society is gone nuts: A young man was expelled from school. Yes, apparently the school was passing out condoms and the young man was caught on his hands and knees praying for an opportunity to use it.
Please read Sommersâ book “THE WAR AGAINST BOYS before it goes out of print.
January 12th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
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