Nobody?Can Think Of A Title For This
Nobody Absurdities: The picture pretty much expresses it…the comments on my Hedy Lamarr is an inventor piece.
Lions and Tigers and Bears…oh my!
The fight is on! Let the fun begin! Since there were so many answers to my last piece about Hedy Lamarr, and so many different “suppositions” about just what I was actually saying— instead of continuing to rant on my other piece, I’d thought I’d give it a go here.
First and foremost, I want to thank, once again, Mike Lasalle. Not only have you graciously given this nobody an opportunity to write and practice every night; you have provided, with your own money, and sweat, and I'm sure many, many, countless hours of hard work…to make this site a great place for men to discuss their anger and pain, and the many injustices that occur in order to provide a place for them.
Not to mention all the other vast writings of those that write about politics and humor– like Doug Powers, or the wonderful mind of Denise Noe…and Bob Parks…all the other many great writers that fill us all with such knowledge and enjoyment.
Thank you.
You are a good man, of high intelligence, and great compassion…a rare human being.
The men should thank you more.
To the Men…to insult this man who has generously giving all of you an opportunity, shows a lack of…well…I won’t say it. To call him a "feminist" just because he is siting a "point" in argument, is just plain silly.
I think the reason that Mike actually understood exactly what I had said, was because I’m sure he reads me every day…and he knows what my opinions are on the differences between men and women. I’m not for one or the other…just truth and common sense.
Actually, if anyone had read most of my stuff, you would know when I’m kidding, and when I’m serious. And Mike and I agree on this one subject…Elder George has a different point of view.
So what? ….once again, let me repeat…so what? What’s the problem? He’s siding with a woman? And another man who does not write on this site?
You can’t be serious.
Anyway, let’s take a look at the thoughts one by one;
Scottkirk: men/women have different strengths that complement one another…the (new genderless society) will try to prove otherwise.
Nobody Says: I’ll drink to that. The new “one size fits all” is insane. I hate it, you guys hate it…and we must all fight it. We’re all snowflakes.
GVrooman says: Ms Adams airly dismisses the people who have to work out the detail. Then he sites Edison’s famous quote of 1% inspiration, and uses it to show that Hedy therefore deserves only 1% of credit.
Nobody Says: I know a little something about the patent process myself, since I have three…I got them without a patent attorney, because I didn’t have the money for one. When my patent examiner called and said “he was really impressed” with my work, it really made this nobody’s day, because I had worked many months and put in hundreds of hours on my “idea.” If you have ever gone through the patent process before, you will know that there is a lot of work…researching the patent system, writing claims, and in the meantime you are working…looking for the right material, the right machines, the market, the inventor has to be involved with all processes of his or her “idea.”
I never said I “dismiss” the people that work on the detail. But, it’s much like building a house. Let's say you draw up the plans…then you hire a carpenter, a plumber, a landscaper…would you say they “invented” the house, or the man or woman who designed it? It’s still your baby. You are the conductor. Therefore whether you did the manual work or not, in the inventor’s world, you’re still the inventor. Like it or not, those are the rules.
Edison had lots of very capable engineers and designers taking sometimes one of his napkin drawings and going from just that. Nevertheless…he thought of the concept, like Hedy.
So Mike was right…the discussion here was on answering the question of whether Hedy should get credit. And in the inventing world, as you see from the banner of the Boeing building…she does. It’s not just me, or Mike, or Jack Lander who gives her credit, it’s her peers. I think I remember reading that she spent many, many hours with all the men secretly developing her idea. After all, a war was on, but I’d have to find that article.
Infidel said: (By the way, love the name) Joyanna wrote: “Lots of women are excellent inventors, and it’s only that they’ve come to accept the myth of male superiority in the area of inventing that holds them back.”
The truth is that most women are mechanically inept. Hedy got most of the men to do the work for her showing that she didn’t do anything on her own.
Nobody Says: First: That was actually a quote from Jack Lander…a man in the field of inventing. He is an engineer like you, with the difference being he has worked in the inventing field all his life. He is probably the most sought after advisor in the inventing field in America due to his monthly columns in the bible for American inventors, “Inventors Digest.”
Most women it’s true, are mechanically inept. But nowadays, quite a few men are joining them. This isn’t the 1950’s anymore, where every guy could fix the Ford in his garage. The cars have changed, and so have the guy’s interest.
Actually, I think Jack is right. Women have always been told that they can’t do it, never will, don’t try, so they give up sooner. Not to mention the child-bearing years do take at least 18 years out of your life. And that’s a long time.
BUT…that doesn’t mean that women can’t be taught, if they wanted to learn, and that’s the “point” being discussed here. Are women capable…given the right time and place, and attitude? I believe that some are. And now with all the divorces, women are being forced to learn at least basic things.
Notice to ALL MEN: Read my typing: Some women are…not all.
I’m getting tired of repeating myself here.
Now, here’s a personal look at it. For many years, whenever I went to “talk” to any businessman about..oh say…plastic prototyping, or manufacturing, folding machines…whatever…it happens every single time…I get dressed up nice, and it always seems that no matter what I said, the man I’m talking to wasn’t even listening due to two reasons…actually three:
1. He first thoughts were sexual…a pretty girl…mmmmm…must be stupid.
2. Oh…a blond…must be stupid.
3. Well…I can’t take her seriously, uh…what did you say?
The rest of what he was thinking is up to you to guess.
Now, once in a while, you can tell the real intelligent men…they don’t care if you are a frog, a Roswell alien, or playmate of the year…they get right to your conversation and idea.
Hedy Lamarr was considered in her time the most beautiful woman in the world. It was her misfortune to be born with a brain AND looks. I can’t imagine what she had to go through.
Since men NEVER, ever, ever, have that problem…they can not even relate to it.
Now, back to Hedy…her husband brought up the problem with the torpedoes. It was stumping the entire governmental body of engineers. And Hedy thought up the solution. You’re really stretching it to say that if not for her husband she wouldn’t have known about it, therefore she gets no credit for it.
What’s the point? If Tom Edison had not read his entire town library when he was eleven he wouldn’t have known about Telsa either, therefore he should get no credit for the light bulb?
Now, let’s get to this “guts” thing….that…well, that stinks.
Most of history, men have gone to work, women have stayed home. (Now, as we all know, due to divorces that is changing.) Most husbands want the woman to be there when he gets home. He wants the support. Right? Right. (I’m not saying that’s wrong.)
Now, lets say the woman has an invention…she has to work late into the night at her lab. Do you think she’d be married long?
So, it’s very unfair to say that she doesn’t have the guts. The reality is, a woman has to sacrifice a personal life entirely to go the distance, where a man usually doesn’t.
As far as sports goes, of course women can’t compete. And if you think I’m making that point, you’re being blinded by your own ignorance.
Infidel, I do believe you’ve never met your equal, but do you want to? (ha!)
INTERMISSION: Nobody gets a diet soda and some cracker jacks. The toy is not inside, darn it. Back to the next guy who is:
Thurston861: Man resorts to insulting Mike…calls him…oh my god…a girl dog. Is this guy on steroids? Did he lose his video game? Was the walk home too exhausting? Did the fast food place forget to give him his taco sauce?
MIKE: Mike of course, makes brilliant points; saying exactly the truth…I especially love when he points out, “On the other hand, it’s no use at all, even un-American, to deny an individual the credit for invention solely on the basis of their not being from the statistically correct gender.”
Nobody Says: Hey, now that’s one I can put up on my wall! Yes, it IS un-American!
Elder Goerge: I misspelled his name because he misspelled mine. (It’s okay Elder, I forgive you.)
He did not even read me again…because he did not notice the fact that I credited him with remembering Hedy’s hair color, where I did not. He is obviously a little confused when it comes to this inventing thing. He still insists her husband invented it, and questions Jack Lander’s knowledge…ha, ha!
Well, that’s okay. Jack Lander has 11 patents, and I’d bet my dollar he knows more about the subject then Elder George.
Nobody Says: Mr. Elder, I’d suggest you actually read this whole thing again. Sometimes it takes more than once to sink in.
Thurston861: Insults the editor again, complaining as bad as a elephant in heat that it’s actually a men’s PMS site and Mike is no longer is playing by the fact that the Marxists are taking over the world, and he has run out of drugs. Then he gets really nasty, and shows to the whole world the exact way NOT to act in any situation if you want to be considered to have an IQ above a tumbleweed blowing toward a fire.
Nobody Says: Actually, I write all the time about the Marxists taking over the world, Thruston666. It’s one of my favorite subjects. As far as you attacking Mike with such creative platitudes…you only show just how much you do not understand the subject…which Mike keeps pointing out to you. You are colored by your own mirror, which as I keep reading is cracking…into…little pieces.
Well, it’s getting late….and I must speed read the rest.
Lloyd Selberg…thanks for your support…I appreciate it. I agree…insane. It was nice to see some common sense in all of this.
MMX: You’re pretty much off about me being upset about Elder George. The whole thing on God was just a small humor piece…I basically took a typical afternoon at home with my husband, made him God, me Mrs. God, and went from there. I wrote it for the sheer fun of it! And it was! After the blog written by Mr. Elder, I thought all the arguing was pretty silly, and thought it was time to lighten up a bit. You forgot to mention amforatas’ many wonderful renditions of God with man…which were really great!
Hey, at least I made a man god! I could have made a women god as most “feminists” would have.
As far as me being insecure…one thing, I beg to differ sir. I,— with not anything that I have done on my own, by shear accident, have discovered that I have a talent that was handed down to me over generations…a genetic “flaw” if you must.
Of course, as Jack Lander would know, it took some good men to push me into using it.
I am the seventh-great granddaughter of the original Henry Adams. And if you know anything or have ever read about the founding Adams, they all: John, John Quincy, Sam, Henry…wrote like mad. They read like fiends. And I have their “madness’ in me.
And as sure as the moon goes round the earth, I couldn’t get rid of it if I tried. And by some fluke, it came into a woman’s body—lions and tigers and bears…oh my!
I will be writing with hopefully more and more confidence every day until I die, lord willing. I’ve only just begun…to make a fool of myself.
Therefore, with the madness of such a genetic drive, I have no insecurity at all about writing. I have insecurity about a lot of things, but writing isn’t one of them.
Being able to find my car in the parking lots has me worried, though.
Sooner or later, with hard work and practice, I might make my ancestors proud.
What I do know, (see what Glenn Beck started?) I write about many things that no one else does. The mind is such an amazing thing…and life all around us is so full of..you know! WONDER. There is so much to observe!
Einstein said, "There are 2 ways to live your life: As though nothing is a miracle. OR –As though everything is a miracle."
I love that…
I also have the ability to see “political” things that drive me crazy, just like the guys on this site start foaming at the mouth about “women” ….
Get me around the Clintons, and I want to chop down the nearest tree.
So, see, we all have our passions. It’s just that we must learn to control them.
John Adams said he thought a man should always state his “opinions.”
But, it’s important, like in any disagreement, that we don’t say things we will regret later.
It’s the smart thing to do, it’s the right thing to do…and when we don’t do it, we should apologize. Remember …
“Every action done in company ought to be with some sign of respect to those that are present.” —-Washington’s Rules of Civility & Decent Behavior.
No, it’s not 1776, but it’s never too late to learn.
And no matter how passionate or right your cause, if you can't be civil about it, no one will listen.
Stumble It!
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“Every action done in company ought to be with some sign of respect to those that are present.” —-Washington’s Rules of Civility & Decent Behavior.
a pearle of wisdom…
what washington would rule the current feminist anti-male hysteria….would he call this respectfull, civil behavoir???
July 8th, 2007
one can be an effective mens/fathers/boys activist…using facts/statistics ect…
or one can be an inneffective raving lunatic….
July 8th, 2007
Whack’em ‘n’ smack’em Joy. Give’em your version of Wham, Bam, thank you Ma’am.
If they don’t shape up, well, so what. Even the Elderly and Hairy can learn from differences of opinion and to your’s and nobody’s opinions I will say ‘Thank You Ma’am’, on their behalf, if not behest.
By the way. If I had been around in Hedy’s day, you might have had some competition. She could have had me, you know.
July 8th, 2007
Joyanna — Here’s two things.
(1) You state, “Women have always been told that they can’t do it, never will, don’t try, so they give up sooner. Not to mention the child-bearing years do take at least 18 years out of your life. And that’s a long time. BUT…that doesn’t mean that women can’t be taught, if they wanted to learn, and that’s the “point” being discussed here. Are women capable…given the right time and place, and attitude?”
The masculine inventive nature doesn’t need PERMISSION to exercise itself. You’re pretending that inventiveness comes via social permission; that people will become smarter if we’ll all only “let them” exercise their creativity by “protecting them from discouraging messages.” But it doesn’t work that way, especially since many, if not most, inventions are created in the “Middle Finger” spirit – the sense that the inventor is tired of BOTH the people who have said it couldn’t be done AND the world’s repeated blocking of his knowledge through one failed attempt after another.
Invention comes NOT from “social permission” but from DIRECT interACTION with the world. (You’ll notice that it’s not “interTALK” nor “interDISCUSSION” but interACTION…) DaVinci discovered basic ideas of flight by taking REAL sticks and putting them in REAL water in order to see the REAL effects.
So, given that no one needs permission to interACT with the world with an inventive frame of mind, your “social permission” approach just isn’t going to work. When the feminine insecure force surrenders to words of discouragement, it’s not a tragedy! It’s just simply the law of nature – that feminine insecurity invents absolutely nothing.
(Instead, it always cockblocks the masculine inventive force.)
(2) Step One: Elder writes Pictures and Points to illustrate the difference between the masculine creative force and the feminine insecure force.
Steps Two, Three, Four: Your comments on Pictures and Points, your silly “God – Man” thread, and this equally silly thread.
The Question: Do your articles reflect the masculine creative force by encouraging Elder to go forth in to the world with his vision in mind? Or do they instead reflect the feminine insecure force by discouraging him from acting out his message until YOU give him “social permission” to do so?
July 8th, 2007
Joy, I have yet to see you make “a fool” of yourself. Your thoughts, rants, insights, keen powers of observation, and sui generis views are a bracing refreshment to the soul.
I am very sure your distinguished ancestors have often enjoyed a good chuckle at the many episodes in which you gave the herd a good healthy and much-needed stirring up. Probably in agony with side stitches right about now. A guy can only laugh so much, ya’ know.
July 8th, 2007
Joy, I should first confess, I have really poor judgement and even more tragic karma when it comes to women.
So, anything I say about you (your authorial persona) … you’re off the existential hook, so to speak.
But, I find some of your opinions offensive. (Sadly, I cannot simply call 911 and have the VAWA police pick you up, just because “I’m afraid” of you….)
(JA) – “Since men NEVER, ever, ever, have that problem…they can not even relate to it. The reality is, a woman has to sacrifice a personal life entirely to go the distance, where a man usually doesn’t.”
This is beyond silly. The majority of men are married or in-a-relationship wage-slaves, who sacrifice their personal life to what amounts to a daily lobotomy. The sad reality is that most men actually look forward to work, because it is a sanctuary from the ball-busting, nagging, overweight, narcissistic cupcake … errrr… soulmate … he has to go home to. (That sounded a bit harsh. I meant castrating skanky bloated entitlement princess…)
Joy, it’s a sad fact, but …. Hedy would have dismissed you with a wink and a sly grin.
She had everything you probably lack and likely desire. (Maybe you have it all, but this is an interrogation …. OK?)
And it’s not your fault.
Modern American women are simply not sexy, or desirable, or funny.
At least you have the right role model; although virtually impossible for any feminist-indoctrinated woman to achieve today. (You modern gals have lost that power… of the actual feminine…)
It’s kinda like guys wanting to be John Wayne or Marlon Brando.
Nobody just can’t go home again….
You write eloquently, girl.
Don’t mind my trivial critiques. It’s my way of expressing respect.
Just keep polishing your craft.
July 8th, 2007
DW2G — The flipside of “not being taken seriously because she’s a girl” is “beuing taken too seriously because she’s a girl”.
Joyanna — It’s quite unfair to complain about the first violation while cashing in on the second, don’t you think?
July 8th, 2007
DadWithTwoGirls: What? I was talking about when a woman “invents” something and she has to go all over visiting mostly “men” mechanics, attorneys, manufacturing foremen, companies….
Imagine if you were a man with a new “idea” for a circuit thing a ma jig, and you have to find funding, or maybe you want to license it,
Now, imagine the guy that needs to approve this is gay, and can’t get his mind off your….whatever…and besides, he thinks your a female dog and wants you bad.
Kinda hard to present any product in that atmosphere.
Trying to get her product on the market, or information, a woman has to deal with the first impressions stuff. Where as a man when he first meets another man…doesn’t have to deal with not being taken seriously because of his ‘gender.”
The proof of that “belief that woman are basically stupid” can be found from the many comments.
And I on the other hand could also say that YOU are not as intelligent as Hedy because she would have understood right away what I meant, where you did not.
I was talking about “business.” The world of business.
How did you get the “ball-busting” stuff out of my simple statement?
And thanks for being civil about your….”bra-busting,”
hey, I just started a new word.
There’s bra-bursting, bra-busting, bra-booting, bra-beating, bra-bontiful…
Feel free to fill in….
July 9th, 2007
Joyanna said: It was her misfortune to be born with a brain AND looks. I can’t imagine what she had to go through.
The enormity of that statement is overwhelming to me. And, is it not insulting to the vast majority of women? Is in not the ultimate “stuck-up, snotty, bitch copout” (i.e. “People would take me seriously if I wasn’t beautiful, if I was more like you”?)
Remember the commercial “Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful”? Or the newer one “My husband calls me his ‘trophy wife’”? They make my wife want to kick the crap out of these women.
July 9th, 2007
joyanna…you have a point…
boys are raised sink or swim style and learn to make things happen…
girls are raised into an entitlement belief situation..and if things just don’t “happen” for them in the entitlement style they were raised in ….then they cry “victim”
I’m all about changeing the way we raise our girls/women away from the entitlement belief system…If there weren’t so many entitlement women…some would then be forced into struggleing to survive..and would probibly learn to be more creative at it..
July 9th, 2007
Joyanna:
First, let me explain. I had to go back and read the previous thread(s) because as someone pointed out, there was a background to this whole argument that I was not aware of when I made my comment and ventured into the fray. So I was focusing on a particular remark that you made and was not aware of the “big picture”.
Anyway, you wrote: “Hedy Lamarr was considered in her time the most beautiful woman in the world. It was her misfortune to be born with a brain AND looks. I can’t imagine what she had to go through.”
“Since men NEVER, ever, ever, have that problem … they can not even relate to it.”
Joyanna, in my own humble estimation, I have the same “problem” as Hedy. Looks and brains. Life is tough.
Men envy my brains and women think I’m a brainless jock. Women cannot relate to this problem.
On a more serious note, I do sympathize with women who have to put up with guys who only care about their looks. Unfortunately, some guys are like that. They give the rest of us a bad name.
Now about your friend Jack. Since you seem to be the only one who speaks to Jack, I have no way to verify what Jack actually said. That’s why I quoted the Wikipedia article on Hedy. That is a source anyone on this thread can refer to if they want to. Quoting Jack is your prerogative but you can’t expect us to take that as the last word on Hedy. It’s more convincing to use a public source rather than a private communication that the rest of us are not privy to. We have no way to refute or confirm what you say Jack said. Even if we trust your motives implicitly, we cannot verify if you correctly interpreted Jack, took all his comments in context, or asked him all the right questions. Therefore, it would be more effective to use a public source to prove your points. Do we even need Jack? Is there a shortage of public information about Hedy?
You wrote: “Now, back to Hedy … her husband brought up the problem with the torpedoes. It was stumping the entire governmental body of engineers. And Hedy thought up the solution.”
*All* the government’s engineers were working on it and not one could find a solution? I find that a little hard to believe. Did your private source, Jack, tell you this?
You wrote: “You’re really stretching it to say that if not for her husband she wouldn’t have known about it, therefore she gets no credit for it.”
I did not say that she deserves no credit. She probably deserves some credit, but not all the credit. I’m saying she seems to have had a lot of help.
As I understand it, it went something like this: Her husband brought the problem to her attention and explained what the problem was (by the way, a well-defined problem is half solved). Then she *and* George came up with a concept to solve the problem, and then she and George left it to the actual engineers to make “her” concept a practical reality.
I’m not saying women can’t invent. I’m saying men are better at it. I’m also saying that Hedy is not a good example of a women who can invent because she needed a lot of help to make “her” idea a practical reality. Your point would have been easier to make convincingly if you had chosen another example. It’s not 100% clear (from the Wikipedia article) if she or George Antheil came up with the basic concept, so in a way you are helping to prove Elder George’s point that it’s hard to find a woman who came up with a “conceptual” invention.
You wrote: “The proof of that ‘belief that woman are basically stupid’ can be found from the many comments.”
I’m not saying women are not as intelligent as men. Men and women have different intelligences. They also have different inclinations and different temperaments. All of these things — not just intelligence — are part of the inventive process. Thus, in general, men are better inventors than women. Women have a talent and *proclivity* for nurturing. They are not drawn to invention to the same degree as men, even if many of them have the intelligence to do it.
I think women are often fixated on trying to prove what a women *can* do. Perhaps that is part of what’s going on here. But to me the question is more about what a woman *should* do. Will she be happier in the lab than she would be in the nursery? I think not. And what about the guy? Is he supposed to nurture the kids while she invents or pursues some other traditionally masculine occupation? Would he really find that fulfilling? I see this as a role reversal which is not good for anyone.
Women seek male approval, but because most men are not aware of how strong this need is, the women don’t get as much as they need. The feminists seem to think they will get it by proving they are as smart as men. So they set out to prove they can do what a man can do. So they enter the man’s world. But what men want is not a woman who acts like a man, but one who cheerfully does what comes naturally to feminine women.
Finally, and this is off topic, but I can’t overlook the fact that you quoted Einstein. People are always quoting Einstein. Einstein is not really a reputable source because he was a plagiarist who stole most of “his” ideas from other people. For example, he was not the first to come up with E = m c^2. Olinto de Pretto and Frederick Soddy (a Nobel prize winner in Chemistry), among others, beat him to it.
P.S. I love your name too.
July 10th, 2007
infidel — “I think women are often fixated on trying to prove what a women *can* do.
Excellent post above. Joyanna seems to think that she should just ignore me, simply because I obviously don’t approve of her tactics, and can easily show her where they’re all fouled up.
The major point Elder, I, and cons are trying to show everyone is that very little importance is achieved by those who try to show what women CAN do. One of the most earth-shaking contributions to this whole mess was your list of thinking habits that produce higher inventiveness.
Were you focused 100% on proving what women can do? Absolutely not. In fact, you wanted to improve what people can do, so you posted the list.
July 10th, 2007