Father’s Rights Groups Gather in the Park & Educate the Public

thanks ray…I agree that most men are to beaten down to fight back!!!

Why didn’t you tell the fellow the truth: that a family court judge does not under the law have to listen to evidence? Suggest he learn the law, take charge of himself, work to change it, and avoid the Bar and most lawyers most of the time.

How can you mention parental alienation, and omit that the California Legislature is in the process of making it state law that its existence be denied?

And scottkirk, what do you mean by `men’? Your usage seems quite at variance with that which is traditional.

Sorry, WLS, we are not attorneys (at least one was not present yesterday) and do not give legal advice. We call attention to the issues as best we can and hand out literature that answers a number of the points you bring up, or refers visitors to locations were they may pursue info.
The push to omit PA from the court room was mentioned as it fit into conversations.
Here is a copy of one of the flyers we handed out,
http://www.parental-alienation-awareness.com/Brochure/brochure.pdf
And here is some of the info we displayed on the tables,
http://www.parental-alienation-awareness.com/posters.asp
In the future, we certainly encourage you’re attendance at these picnic/rallies to assist in the push to present the truth.
Sincerely, Ray

We got lucky yesterday with our picnic. It’s raining this morning. Who says it never rains in CA? It is very unusual to get any rain at all in July, and this year has been the worst drought in the recorded history of the state. I have the front door open and am listening to the rain gently fall as I write this. I haven’t seen a drop of rain for months. It will be nice to have clean air (and cool weather) today.

The way I look at it, at least you’re DOING something. Most people just sit around and complain about the system, but are too busy to get involved in changing it. That’s why it has gotten as bad as it is. Good work Ray!

I was there and it was very endearing to meet other men that understood the pain and hardship that men and fathers endure. I remember that also as one of the reasons that the fathers rights movement is so quiet is because we as men are crushed emotionaly and get the dear in the headlight syndrom. what do we do? Im lost, but I wont ask directions. Show up and meet others that can give directions and answers, with honest and intelegent answers. This year is the biggest year yet for fathers rights with the PA being the biggest issue for children. I am glad I went and will continue to show support for this cause. Great to meet you Ray! We need more men like You that understand that we do this because “its the right thing to do” for our children and for our country.

Again, “Go Ray” … someone recently told me that father’s rights groups and Mens Rights groups haven’t “ACCOMPLISHED” anything of sigfificance in 30 years and that only by men hiring lobbyists to represent them will anything be done because if we don’t get it done in the courts and congress it won’t get done.

What’s your take on that Ray?

My feeling was, we need everyone, male or female, a sign or letter to the editor, a law suit, and lobbyists too. So often it seems that men get a group together and then they start competing with other men’s groups, rather than supporting each other.

Your protests, signs and truck always make me smile. Who knows what young man or women will get the message from those of us who don’t understand the word quit, or submit, who will one day lead others to what is true and fair, for all.

SD

“… someone recently told me that father’s rights groups and Mens Rights groups haven’t “ACCOMPLISHED” anything of sigfificance in 30 years and that only by men hiring lobbyists to represent them will anything be done because if we don’t get it done in the courts and congress it won’t get done.

What’s your take on that Ray?”

Steven:

IMO, a lobbyist in the halls of the legislature is vitally important, even though the individual may be counter productive to maintaining his own financial base by not recognizing the hard work of his supporters, and otherwise alienating those who support him/her. INCLUSIVITY, is a vital business/personal management concept such a person needs to learn – I-N-C-L-U-S-I-V-I-T-Y.

That being said, I sometimes wonder if indeed some of what is thrown out to men (by the legislature(s) is merely the crumbs from the political/legislative table. I sometimes wonder if men are just being asked to get used to the size of the crumbs, the appeasement, that is periodically thrown out to keep us “male slaves” placated and subservient. Personally, I’m not all that impressed with the supposed men’s and Father’s issues successes coming out of my states legislature, when looking at the totality of the misandrist situations men and Father’s face in gender feminized CA.

As far as Men’s and Fathers Rights groups having not accomplished anything of significance, nothing could be further from the truth. At least on the Internet, the frontier of communications in the 21st century, Fathers and Men’s rights groups have pioneered their own territory and a wealth of knowledge has been gained by FRA’s and MRA’s, not to mention the public at large. Knowledge too is power, although not as politically “liquid” as outright political power. Being a certificated Instructor at the Community College level in CA, I would be the last to ever minimize the importance of education to an individual, or a movement, or movements. That would be shortsighted indeed.

All that being said, let’s now turn our focus to the importance of the individual citizen lobbyist and the impact that one person on a mission can accomplish, no, has accomplished (with a good amount of help/support from his friends).

Back in the mid eighties I got involved in a certain, workplace, health and safety issue. I went to an Assemblyman’s office in my neighbor hood, who I knew was interested in the issue. I presented a prepared speech, or as I like to call it, a lesson plan on the issue. I tried to persuade the Freshman Assemblyman, through a legislative aide I talked to, to do something about my concerns, to do something about the workplace health and safety issue. To make a long story short, and skip all the subsequent activism that I participated in, and some which I spearheaded, here is a letter from the Freshman Assemblyman (Gray Davis) to me:

“Dear Ray:

Your support of Assembly Bill 2040 is to be commended. You helped make this legislation an important health issue which the Governor could not ignore.

Sincerely yours,

Gray Davis”

Is a lobbyist in the halls of the legislature, who proactively works to remedy issues affecting Fathers and men a valuable resource? Yes. Can individual citizen lobbyists, who works within the system as is his/her constitutional right (and duty), be an important, effective and contributing factor? Yes.

The only question I have is, “Why would anyone make a statement alienating citizen lobbyists from their constitutional right and duty to act as citizen lobbyists?” And don’t tell me it isn’t because the individual citizen lobbyist (and his friends – other citizen lobbyists) can’t be effective – been there – done that.

I encourage every individual Father’s and men’s rights activist to work within the legal system to bring about badly needed reform in family law, domestic violence law, sexual harassment law, Title IX. I encourage every individual Father’s and men’s rights activist to work within the legal system:

# to bring about shared parenting,
# to bring about recognition, not rejection, of Parental Alienation, in family law issues,
# to bring about the formation of a Men’s Commission in CA (and the US, and other states),
# to bring about an Office of Men’s Health in CA (and the US, and other states),
# to bring about the formation of an Office of Violence Against Men in Washington, D.C.,
# to bring about Men’s Studies on college and university campuses everywhere, etc., etc., etc.

Contrary to the propaganda of gender feminists, especially those in legislative bodies, “Women will never be equal, until men have all the rights, protections, privileges, perks and pampering that women have.” Agitate for it, protest for it, lobby for it as an individual citizen lobbyist, and don’t let anyone tell us that we can’t do it. Don’t let anyone tell us we can’t have the same rights, protections, privileges, perks and pampering that women have, IMO.

Given the political climate in gender feminized CA, men’s and Father’s issues activists are definitely swimming against the prevailing tide, making their work all the harder. So be it. Men’s and Father’s issues activists are still right to approach their government for a redress of grievances, for reform of the many misandrist, gender feminist laws. It is the right thing to be doing, IMO. That’s all the reason we need, IMO.

Well Folks … the times are a changing, ten years ago a gathering like this one would not have a happened. People are begining to wake up, it is so bad even some t the liberal have complained. As for the women who came up to complain, well those that will lose out when the reforms come are not just going to lay down and give up. A bully never does this , and that lady and the “government terrorist ” who have undoubtedly backed her are, going to cry when we succeed. That will be the end of their little ” free ride” and it will be time to “grow up, socially, legally and morally.)
It is true, those that stand up and take the side of noncustodial parents, who are mostly fathers, are going against the tide. But that is true of any civil rights movement. We will suceed, there are just too many of us and our number grow every year. More and more people are beginning to figure it out. So don’t let that bitch who wanted to complain, rile you. She and all the other leeches out there know that there days are numbered.
I have a dream, that one day, when I am very old. I will be sitting in my easy chair one spring afternoon and a little child. I always picture a little girl with curls, will come up and sit in my lap. With a very serious look. She will ask me, “grandpa, is it really true , that in the “olden days” ie now, that they took kids away from their daddies? Now I’m old and it takes me a minute to respond. ” Why yes dear, they did take kids away from their daddies and sometime the mommies too.” She will still have the very serious look, but now puzzled too, ” Well didn’t they know that was wrong? With tears in my eyes, I will say” Now they do”
Because by then all this we are doing now will be history and so will the corrupt system that has victimized and abused us. It will just be some pages in a history book.

Thank you for sharing Ray. Great job.

Q: “Why are there so few people in the Father’s movement, if Fathers really are oppressed and discriminated against?”

A: In general over the last forty years, Americians are socialized to dishonor fathers and men. For example, ask you yourself, “how many positive images in media stories and research studies of fathers and men have you seen?” Now compare that number stories and studies that honor mothers, children, and pets. Few people support men as men are not branded as victims.

Agreed – Great Job Ray – Thanks for doing this work. It is critically important and few of us are out there. I know for myself I am so strapped at this point that I don’t even have the felxibility in time or money to do much of anything (a recent graduate of the school of corruption and injustice at FCU – Family Court University).

Tom

Tom:

Thanks. Don’t feel guilty, or unduly obligated.

We are all doing what we can for the most part. It is wise to recognize existing limitations and to take care of ourselves too. The purpose of combining this event with a picnic in the park (instead of a grueling march), is to keep the activity as recreational as possible.

Any individual or organization who seriously pursues reform needs some understanding of the legal basis of the pathology in family court: it doesn’t take a professional legal education, and lawyers aren’t going to do the necessary educating and advising for us. All `fathers’ rights groups’ should be able to on some level answer a question like “why was evidence ignored?” from a father new to the problem.

The internet is overall a vast wasteland as far as these issues go: it has come to be dominated by crackpots, largely following in the tradition of tax protesters. There is no forum for serious discussion of activism.

There once was a statewide organization in California with a dues-paying membership of around 500, which did have some successes—in particular in the area of spousal support—which were moreover not what would pass as `success’ these days, which is usually worse than “crumbs” and a victory for the other side. It appeared to me that what killed it was an unwillingness to work strategically, for the long-run. People quit because there was no evident instant, quick fix and they preferred to sit and wait—and are still waiting—for the silver bullet that probably will never come.

The fundamental problem with the `single lobbyist’ model isn’t just that it “alienates” the citizenry, but that without the citizenry’s direct involvement it can never accomplish anything significant—and unsurprisingly degenerates into fraud.

WHat a great idea, Ray. Not a negative protest but a peaceful, positive disemination of information. You have given me some food for thought. Thanks. Awesome work you guys are doing.

Thanks TBQ. The old saying, “The Easiest Way is Hard Enough,” most certainly has relevance to educating the public about Father’s, Men’s and Boy’s issues.

A protest, rally/picnic can take on many tones. It felt good having so many Father affirming signs in a world that bashes and bad mouths males so much.

I thought of a couple more good signs to make for our events (not my original ideas for wording):

STOP THE WAR ON DADS

The word STOP would be made to look like a STOP sign and would be a good attention getter, but the words “stop” and “war” convery negative under tones that might push some people away, or make them less open and receptive to our ideas.

START SEEING FATHERS, again not my original idea, sounds more Pro-Father and doesn’t carrying any words, in and of themselves, that carry negative undertones.

A FATHER’S LOVE IS IRREPLACABLE was my favorite sign from Sunday’s picnic, and at first it sounded odd, but then I thought of my own Dad and decided that was all the reason in the world I needed to justify the making, and display, of that sign.

That people actually meet disenfranchised fathers in a discussion or teach-in setting matters.

Once, some of us met with a prominent SF Bay area newspaper paper columnist, who, although no friend of the feminist, was initially very sceptical that fathers who lose in family court don’t usually deserve it. She softened considerably in the course of the discussion, however, because she said it really seemed like the people she was facing were decent, conscientious, and apparently truthful. Unfortunately, there’s been little followup to cultivate her as a friend.

If you `demonstrate’ on the lawn or steps of the State Capitol—as I guess was tried—you want to have a table with literature, informative posters, and a place to talk, rather than chant and wave placards. The contacts you can make are with staffers, counsels, lobbyists with related causes, and sometimes legislators themselves.

And you can participate in or crash various outdoor events: anything that draws crowds.

“If you `demonstrate’ on the lawn or steps of the State Capitol—as I guess was tried—you want to have a table with literature, informative posters, and a place to talk, rather than chant and wave placards.”

I like that idea WLS.

We’ll probably continue refining our curriculum, and posters in the park for a while, but I would love to take the whole show (tents and all) to the lawn of the State Capitol. Believe it or not, our activism and interviews on the State Capitol lawn was just an after thought to our earlier protest at the Family court bldg.

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/MRA_06/VideoSacProtest/?action=view&current=SacCapLawnInt1-1.flv

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/MRA_06/VideoSacProtest/?action=view&current=SacCapLawnInt1a.flv

I did get an interview with a reporter from the Capitol Weekly back in late January, by doing nothing more than parking the truck w/sign in front of the State Capitol – - – immediately after the 375 mile drive. I was exhausted and the reporter was asking some very specific questions. Fortunately, in the stretch part of the cab (from all the protesting in d.v. awareness month), I had a lot of factual material to support our position on d.v. laws.

It’s a lot of work, but we plan to continue our efforts, pacing ourselves and making significant statements as effectively as we are able. We’re always open to, and welcome, good ideas. Thank you.