Let’s Work on Causes not Effects
I donate to seven different environmental organizations. The paid staffs and volunteers of these organizations work hard and accomplish a lot. However, they are collectively losing on all fronts. Air, water, and food pollution continue to increase at a rapid rate, as does the disappearance of various forms of life species. The failure of the environmental movement like all else in the West results from attacking the symptom and ignoring the cause—an insatiable desire to consume.
Mother earth was designed to provide for our needs, not to satiate our greed. Mother earth suffers from continual abuse. Environmentalism is essentially ineffectual. My donations are wasted. The effects that result from over-consumption cannot be altered. Ultimately all environmental efforts will prove to be fruitless.
A change in the environment requires a change in our thinking. A change in our health requires a change in our thinking. A change in our government requires a change in our thinking. A change in our morals requires a change in our thinking. Unfortunately, we as a nation want to continue with the old ways but without paying the consequences for our actions. We believe we can defy the great law of cause and effect by the works of our own hands. This attitude is spiritual ignorance and we are wallowing in it.
Women don’t take care of women—men do. Female material thinking cannot save mother earth; only the unseen masculine thinking can. That thinking focuses on causes, which can change effects.
I look to hear from and witness the participation of those real men and women who can tell the difference between a cause and an effect and who have the WILL to do something about it.
I'm also the Chief of Men's Action to Rebuild Society, an organization that not only addresses the issues confronting you, but takes action to resolve these issues. | More from Elder George
Stumble It!
July 30th, 2007 at 10:36 am
Let me share some of my wisdom:
MMX said: “Some MRAs, for all of their loud protests, really do love the fact that men are oppressed, and that women angrily divorce their husbands.”
How do you know this? Where is your evidence?
I could make similar statements as follows:
1) “Some EGists, for all of their loud protests, really do love the fact that EG is criticized, so they keep fanning the flames to bring on more criticism.”
Or,
2) “Some women, for all of their loud protests, really do love being raped, because they can’t get sex any other way and it gives them the power of victimhood status.”
See what silly statements one can make using that logic?
July 30th, 2007 at 10:27 am
One way to help the men’s movement is to purge it of silliness so it has more respectability.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:22 am
You people have me all wrong. I am sharing my wisdom my way.
To do something practical to help the men’s movement, forget about EG and pass out fliers telling people about the injustices men and their children have suffered.
The spelling thing was a joke — I called myself ’severely deluded’ (ha ha) in mock (temporary) agreement with Thurston.
Julie said: “I really need you to not let the boys down. They are going to prison. Do not pass go.”
I don’t understand how people can go to jail because of what we say here. Why not ask EG to rid his articles of the obvious flaws I’ve pointed out? This site is about testing ideas, and many of his don’t pass the test, yet he never learns from that.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:09 am
julie to infidel – “If you have wisdom, please sahre it…”
Easily the best thing anyone has ever said to him. Why do we even have to beg him to do this in the first place?
Everything we do is done because of our values system, which is informed by our spirituality. Some people accept that they are created in God’s image, so they don’t have to be told to do their utmost best at all times. But others believe others to be worthless nothings, because they really believe themselves to be worthless nothings, and therefore don’t see the next to put forth their absolute best effort.
—————————————
julie to us – “What I don’t get is that you BOTH have good points. Why can’t you say something like. “Yes, that’s fair enough but…”
For two reasons. (1) Although we have a common enemy and are in the same boat, some of us only pretend to hate the situation enough to want to do something about it. Some MRAs, for all of their loud protests, really do love the fact that men are oppressed, and that women angrily divorce their husbands. (2) That it’s not enough to “both have good points” but rather to show, in the real world using really big problems, what the effects of every man’s position actually is! When men become isolated from their wives and family, they unwittingly live without opposition. They’ve no wives nor children to contest their beliefs. Theoretically, this means peace, but in practice, it means a stubborn fool who falls in love with imaginary evidence, and cannot be swayed to substitute his imagination for reality.
———————————————-
“And Gonzman is just as bad. OMG, and here is me thinking that Americans are further donw the track from NZ. “
I actually like him a lot! I like his energy! But you did witness how he first began with “Don’t get married!” but then revealed how proud he is to have those houses, cars, and five women sleeping with him. (Can’t you agree that people should discuss this!!? But, lo and behold, where’s the response!?) This is pretending to be just like me, since we both agree that the State shouldn’t be involved in marriage. But in reality he’s far unlike most men, because he has all of those women.
That’s a lot of what happens with the Men’s Movement. Only some people really want it to be a Movement, while way too many others secretly want it to be Men’s Right to Stand Still.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:04 am
Julie, I agree with you that it is getting overboard, endless point by point debates between those two. It’s a bit like a husband and wife who eventually realize there are things they cannot change about the other and agree to disagree and move on. Un less one savors the process more than the result it is pointless to keep this one going.
As to your original observations about men and women, you stated you weren’t sure if it was related but then went on to recount numerous keen observations you’ve made of men and women that are indeed manifestation of what EG says.
I struggled awhile to get past some of the mystical analogies EG draws, focusing on my disdain for new age type “spirituality. But it was in fact the practical things that you pointed out, and many others, things we see daily, that got me a little interested.
Those who smugly keep dismissing EG, saying he is about a religion, are off the mark. He is about real tangible things like those you mentioned. He describes them maybe differently than I would but so what?
July 30th, 2007 at 5:25 am
E.G’s writings, although i can’t grasp them all..has spurred me to take action where I can..If were waitng for the feminists to get a conscience, and see what they are doing us…then were barking up the wrong tree!!
Men must act if there is to be change…The only effective action I can at this point fathom is to educate other men..debunk feminist lies and hysteria..
July 30th, 2007 at 5:07 am
julie.. “Please don’t make feminists have more ammo. You just seem to not have any idea how bad things are”
Trying to negotiate mens rights with the femi-fascist is a noble pursuit, and I wish you gods speed!!
There are many different facets and angles of men trying to battle the feminist juggernaut..I in particular come in at the angle of (negotioation with the gender feminist= prolonged suffering; and futile). Teaching men to lift their heads out of the dirt from 50 years of feminist anti-male propaganda is the position I choose to take!!
It would be unfortunate If you omit Mensnewsdaily from youre brochure..but it’s youre brochure!! But rest assured that in light of the Duke university false rape, and lynchings of innocent boys on college campusses, the university’s are ripe for change..And I/others are also planning a major university outreach campaign!! across the country!!
July 30th, 2007 at 1:54 am
Infidel,
If you also have wisdom, why don’t you share it. I have already put my brochure through to a donator. Why am I feeling like he will say ‘NO, WAY. ”
I am not against you by no means. But i can’t promote dysfunction. Gosh, I can’t spell right under pressure because I am not like you.
But how am I to support you when you don’t like each other?
Why am I having to remind men in your position that this is real? Why don’t you understand that we are hearing you?
I do understnad why you don’t combine and that the femminist hit a lucky shot with the “I am victim” and “I am abused” but you can’t (well it is up to you) please, please doint’ let me down. I have 3 female MP’s speaking up for males. I really need you to not let the boys down. They are going to prison. Do not pass go.
This is a passionate deal to me but I can’t do this without you.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:19 am
Julie (#40). I think MMX is too persistent, and he keeps putting words in my mouth, so then I keep having to clear up his misrepresentations of me. I agree that this is not a good situation, but what can I do?
Maybe just tell people to avoid the debates over EG’s religion.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:10 am
MMX (#38). I refer you to #34.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:08 am
MMX, I don’t know you and Infidel, I don’t know you.
But I think I will stay away from promoting this site. I had put it on my brochure to go to the Universities but you guys don’t seem to understand each other.
What I don’t get is that you BOTH have good points. Why can’t you say something like. “Yes, that’s fair enough but…”
And Gonzman is just as bad. OMG, and here is me thinking that Americans are further donw the track from NZ.
Please don’t make feminists have more ammo. You just seem to not have any idea how bad things are.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:07 am
EG, on a positive note, you are right about causes and effects, insofar as so many people today ignore the causes and treat only the effects. I salute you for pointing that out, although of course I don’t agree with your metaphysics.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:57 am
infidel – “It’s rubbish to say I’ve never explained a single point. You are way off.”
Again, what’s missing? Like when the time you asked me to [insert example here], I clearly responded with [something longer than an accusatory one liner, but not a book list. something that invites the reader to respond to the content itself, not just a blind accusation. something that shows I'm interested in having a conversation instead of just accusing you, or Elder, of being very very bad.]
It’s missing. As in, not there. As in, I’m not making up the fact that it isn’t there, because it’s really not there.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:51 am
MMX (#35), you are blowing smoke and twisting things.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:42 am
MMX (#35), people do blow smoke and twist things. What’s there to explain?
It’s rubbish to say I’ve never explained a single point. You are way off.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:23 am
infidel – “I don’t have time to debate or explain every point to the Nth degree, and I doubt if that would help. Anyway, I am not trying to convert you to my way of seeing things. Cheers.”
So the fact that you have no time to explain a hypothetical 40,000,000 points explains why you never explain a single one of them?
Infidel’s favortie quote, “You’re blowing smoke!” (Never once explained.)
Infidel’s second favorite quote, “You’re twisting things!” (Never once explained.)
Without any explanations, it’s impossible to have a rational conversation.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
MMX (#31). I don’t have time to debate or explain every point to the Nth degree, and I doubt if that would help. Anyway, I am not trying to convert you to my way of seeing things. Cheers.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
When I started getting involved a few of my male friends said, “I know exactly who would like to be on these sites.”
Funny but these males that they told me would fit right in, are losers. Because they allow themsleves to be losers. They have nothing to offer another human being yet they bitch that they don’t get. And yet they create what they get to bitch about.
But here and now, in this very day (just as I say to the radical feminists in person, not online) this is beyond so called losers. This is now a humankind problem. This problem affects everyone whether directly or indirectly.
This is no longer a feminist and masculinist war. This is now everyone’s problem. Especially winners and those with winning attitudes.
For people needing healing from their situation, healing tools need to be given. And for those that have healed a calling is upon us. And for the rest of society ….. well they are soon to find out. And they will because people will tell them.
People just like me and many here who have nothing to lose and nothing to gain. And there are so many like me it is not funny. It is our responsibility to vote for what is right. It is our responsibility to care for the next generation. And no-one will put us down because no-one has anything on us and no-one can treat us as if we are gaining power. For we aren’t doing it for ourselves. And always in life when you give you receive.
Innocent people will find out and people will be angry.
July 29th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Julie, I will support your point that Elder’s words give Men and thus all People as there is the obverse (feminine) theri power back.
The nation Yeshua inherited when he was here was lost and mixed up, everything was disporportionate in the spiritual discourse.
When you give people the truth is sets them free, free to be and accomplish.
The principle is always there, but you obviously, as demonstrated by one character here, cannot make people embrace the truth and the reality of their spiritual opportunity.
G-D cannot be proved, and thus to such people G-D being imeasurable and incoporial they can never believe in HIM because they can never have HIM proved to them.
Same with the spiritual nature of the Masculine and Feminine.
Materialists and Relativists will never get it. They are the majority now, eyes and ears that have no connection to the spiritual.
July 29th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
infidel – “Your points (1) and (2) are both lies. I have never made either of those claims. ”
You know what’s missing here, infidel? The next most logical statement. “What I really said was…” or “What I really meant to say is…” or “Perhaps if I explain it this way, you’ll understand it better.” These are the types of things people say when they’re trying to have a serious discussion about a subject.
But when you leave out those statements, you’re NOT trying to have a discussion at all.
July 29th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
MMX (#29), I think you are coming unglued.
Your points (1) and (2) are both lies. I have never made either of those claims.
I never said that materialistic solutions will solve everything.
When did I say “everything is just an interpretation”? What post was that?
July 29th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
infidel – “I have not offended you. Your interpretation of me has offended you.
Wow, that’s arrogant.
(1) You claim to know my mind better than I do! And it’s my mind!
(2) You claim to know the errors of Elder’s message better than anyone else, but you haven’t met him like I have, nor have you read his book from cover-to-cover, like I have.
You don’t have to do the work, because you’re infidel! But I’m only the lowly MMX. Less is more, because your infidelness is so great!
How about this? You name any major problem in the world today, and propose a materialistic, scientific solution to it. I’ll then counter with a spiritual solution. The spiritual solution will trump yours, as long as you don’t insist like you always do that “everything is just an interpretation.”
Deal?
July 29th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Sorry, in #27 I should have said “articles” (plural).
July 29th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Julie (#16). I don’t think you understand what it is about EG’s article that his critics are critical about. But it’s a long story, so if you really want to know I refer you to the archives of the last few weeks.
July 29th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
MMX (#22). I have not offended you. Your interpretation of me has offended you.
July 29th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
MMX (#22) Perhaps you don’t understand what I think you are mixed up about. In both #15 and #22 you are reading things into what I said. You do that a lot. If people want to know what I think they should read my posts not yours because your interpretations of me are often far off.
July 29th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
SK and Julie #20- EG is not capable of “giving back” or taking away any man’s “power” (whatever that is supposed to mean).
The individual effectiveness of any man lies entirely within himself – notwithstanding the systematic oppressions wrought by Mike Nifong and his grey-suited clones across the western world.
Also, comment- #9 – Oh, Amfortas – you always crack me up. (ROTFLMAO!)
July 29th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Julie – Feminists have problems with men, because their lack of spiritual values force them to view men the wrong way. Men aren’t evil oppressors, but are instead God’s creatures who, like all of God’s creatures, have a purpose on this planet.
This is just one way to show that humanity’s modern problems stem from a profound lack of spiritual insight.
July 29th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
infidel – “MMX #15, if you really believe what you wrote you are hopelessly mixed up.”
So it’s “hopelessly mixed up” to believe that spiritual problems can only be solved by spiritual methods?! That sounds like a statement which needs to be proven with evidence, or at least explained. But I don’t see any explanation nor proof. I just see someone who imagines himself to be more right than everyone else, and isn’t going to stop firing unexplained one-liners until everyone backs down.
Your post above is offensive infidel. It’s one thing to question a man’s spiritual perspective, but to outright insult it without explanation is holier-than-thou.
July 29th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Even though you may not have all the answers!!
you seem to be asking the right questions!!
July 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
julie..
“What is so wrong with an elder giving men back their power”
good question!! theres nothing wrong with E.G trying his best to give men back their power!!
Unfortunatelly were dealing with 50 years of non-stop women-as-victim anti male rhetoric…that men are afraid of themselves!!
We now live in a society that if all women rejected gender feminism because they have realized the destruction on society and themselves…you would see some men trying desperatelly to piece the feminist juggernaut back together..
It’s quite tragic actually that in modern America..men now need feminism more than the women!!
July 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
MMX #15, if you really believe what you wrote you are hopelessly mixed up.
July 29th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
when women have to produce all they consume, they will most likely stop consuming at their currant pace because they will “never” be willing to play from the blue tees instead of the red.
July 29th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
#2 bisquit queen. of course it is a gender issue, unless women are given a pass for the umpteenth time.
more assets are waisted by women than men. not even close. never has been. never will be. stuff has to be produced so women can buy stuff to feel good about themsleves.
thats it!
July 29th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
This may be way off but it is something I am seeing around me. Not on the net but on the street.
Men in general are protectors and providers. They can’t help that. That is the way they are.
The feminists believe that this is just in their minds. That they have been trained like this, or should I say, this behaviour is ingrained in them.
Men are are also hunters and competitors. This also they say is ingrained in them. Many people I talk to seem to think that feminism isn’t about changing women but about changing men. It does seem that feminims has affected alot of men but in truth, and as the men and women I see continue on to say, “Women like men this way. ” And there are many reasons for this.
What has happened is that society is putting men further and further down. And women are being supported and cared for and encouraged to be the best that they can be.
What is so wrong with an elder giving men back their power. Encouraging them to disregard what the world is telling them and look within themselves to be the best that they can be. And about masculinity. I read where a male born in the 80’s said something about his generation cleaning up this mess. He really has to do that. And so do the females of the same generation.
I dun’t knnow about you, but I am grateful to have elder’s wisdom evn though it may come in a form a writing which is the easiest thing to challenge.
What i hope is that he does not get sick of giving his knowledge freely because when you don’t have a clue what to do, it is nice that someone wants to help you figure it out.
Things HAVE to change. Bickering over peoples opinion will not bring change. I have found through my asking quesitons that many in the media are aware of what is going on but they don’t have the strength to be put down for speaking the truth. They mostly only hear from critics. They appreciate it when something writes in and says, “Keep, it up. That was great and I know you had to go against the Governemnt to do that. I believe in you. ” Do you know how rare that is for someone to receive words like this.
EG, is right. If you want to change you situation, you can. Yes, the walls are all around and yes, you heart gets rippied to shreads and everything you have work hard for is being used up by some witch and her new lover and yes, the world has turned its back on you.
At least you know your obstacles. It is a matter of figuring out how to overcome them. But I am sure EG can last a bit longer with the criticism.
July 29th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
infidel – “EG is always dissing what he calls “materialistic feminine” thinking and promoting what he calls unseen masculine thinking and then sc567 blames me for “reading into it” superior/inferior.”
No, he’s dissing the use of materialistic thinking to solive spiritual problems!
That’s why you’tre so upset with Elder. You first assume that everything can be sovled at the scientific / materialistic level, and then you slide the discussion away from the major spiritual problems — (1) The nature of gender. (2) The best way to care for the planet. (3) The nature and purpose of male-female relationships. — and toward materialistic, petty issues (1) The nature and composition of stars and nebulae. (2) The correct way to quote someone. (3) The “real reason” Elder and I do anything.
Do you get it now?
July 29th, 2007 at 11:22 am
For all those reading along, being somewhat confused and being more receptive to take my advice in the last comment, some thinks to keep in mind.
Yin/yang (~= feminine/masculine) are not absolutes. They’re relatives, only to each other.
Therefore, don’t fall too much into a binary (0 & 1, false & true) mindset, although sometimes this identification happens.
Yin/yang will sometimes be named as forces or energies. Don’t take that to literally. Concept or ‘principle’ is a better naming.
And, in the end, yin/yang do exist as much as left and right do exist. They’re ‘navigators’, yin/yang in a much more universal way.
Yes difficult, and paradoxical. Don’t let that be discouraging. Taking things at face value or in soundbites hasn’t brought us really positively further.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:09 am
infidel, you need a reading course do you?
Multiple times I’ve adviced to do a thorough reading, and let it slip in over a longer time (which is multiple days at least).
July 29th, 2007 at 10:04 am
EG said: “Women don’t take care of women—men do. Female material thinking cannot save mother earth; only the unseen masculine thinking can.”
Sc567 said: “Be aware to see the difference between the biological sexes (male/female), and the metaphysical concept of Gender (masculine/feminine ~= yang/yin).”
Sc567, maybe you should tell EG that. He said “women” and “men”. He also said he doesn’t blame “women” for anything. Sounds like he is stuck on the biological thing himself. But then, an EGist likes to have things both ways.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:00 am
EG is always dissing what he calls “materialistic feminine” thinking and promoting what he calls unseen masculine thinking and then sc567 blames me for “reading into it” superior/inferior. Yeah right. Just another case of EGists trying to have it both ways. What else is new?
July 29th, 2007 at 7:01 am
@2 The Biscuit Queen
Be aware to see the difference between the biological sexes (male/female), and the metaphysical concept of Gender (masculine/feminine ~= yang/yin).
in reply to infidel jibba jabba:
Anything who reads in ’superior/inferior’ is stuck in linear thinking which doesn’t suit much more than the physical universe.
July 29th, 2007 at 2:13 am
EG said: “I don’t blame women for anything.”
Render unto Ceasarina, what is Ceasarina’s.
July 28th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
EG said: “I don’t blame women for anything.”
Here EG kisses female butt big-time. However, if we look deeper this is actually an insult to women. It’s as if they are incapable of either good or evil.
If women are not capable of being guilty then they are either angels or subhuman. So which is it EG?
Hey, don’t women drive cars too?
July 28th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Biscuit Queen, with EG and his band of irrational followers, EVERYTHING is a Gender issue. And that’s Gender with a capital G. EG is a pagan who makes everything into a Gender issue since Gender is the heart and soul of his religion.
But don’t try to reason with them because you can’t. Either it “resonates” with you or it doesn’t.
He seems to think that everything material is feminine (i.e. inferior) and everything spiritual is masculine (i.e. superior). It’s seems to be a form of chauvinism. You have a right to be offended.
EG said: “Female material thinking cannot save mother earth; only the unseen masculine thinking can.”
By unseen, he seems to mean spiritual. Isn’t that right EG?
July 28th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
countering 50 years of feminist anti-male indoctrination is going to be a challenge. Most men post 1950 grew up in a complete women dominated society..The voice of the father has been silenced…And chaos is the result!
July 28th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Elder George, hope you have put your money where your mouht is and donated to this site via the Chipin so that this site can continue to publish your philospohy.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:59 am
To the biscuit queen,
Read my other recent articles. I don’t blame women for anything. You’re focusing on the picture, not the point.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:23 am
“Women don’t take care of women—men do.”
Ladies and gentlemen I believe that says it all.
July 28th, 2007 at 7:17 am
I really don’t think this is a gender issue. It is an important issue, and I completely agree with you that we as a society need to address our flawed thinking when it comes to our share of the resources on this planet. I do not, however, think that women are any more or less a part of the problem than men. We all need to change our thinking.
July 28th, 2007 at 7:08 am
“Female material thinking cannot save mother earth; only the unseen masculine thinking can. That thinking focuses on causes, which can change effects.”
countering 50 years of feminist anti-male indoctrination is going to be a challenge. Most men post 1950 grew up in a complete women dominated society..The voice of the father has been silenced…And chaos is the result!!