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‘Today’s dads have a complete inability to discipline their kids…Mom is the primary disciplinarian while Dad treats their kids as equals rather than children’

2007-09-01
By

Martha, a Florida reader, didn’t like my column The Price of Fatherhood–a Father’s Reply to Ann Crittenden’s ‘Mothers’ Manifesto’ (Los Angeles Daily Journal, San Francisco Daily Journal, 1/10/02). The article details the sacrifices that breadwinner fathers make for their children. Martha’s letter is below.

Price of fatherhood article

I don’t know this “father” you speak of in your article. Most of the dads I know are unemployed or under-employed (not by choice) and if they are working, they sure aren’t working a 60 hour work-week. Those who are unemployed aren’t picking up the childcare role or even looking for work, but rather expect the mother’s salary to cover daycare so the men can “find themselves” during the day.

If the kids are school-aged, they are latchkey kids even though Dad is unemployed. These kids come and go as they please around the neighborhood, with their own key to the house and cell phone. Half the time the parents don’t even know where they are and will often call all the homes of their child’s friends (if the parent is even aware of who these friends are) and ask you if their child is there. 

Today’s dads also, for some reason, have a complete inability to discipline their kids, especially their sons. Mom is the primary disciplinarian (if there is any discipline at all in the home), while Dad treats their kids as equals rather than children. This brings disastrous results when these kids become teenagers–I know because this is what we are currently living our household and many of my friends as well.

Martha

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  • PolishKnight

    “Tony Ananda” pontificates:
    ‘When you truly “find yourself”, you won’t blame women, feminists, liberals, Marxists, advertisers, the government, chivalrous males, lesbians or the whole litany of the endless blame game.’

    Isn’t that also part of the blame game?

    I am perfectly willing to accept my own share of responsibility for the condition of the world around me, but I’m also humble enough to accept that I’m just one small person in the greater scheme of things.

    Do let us know when you have the world figured out, Tony. Do you have any lottery numbers for me to try? :-)

  • Tony Ananda

    PolishKnight,

    When you truly “find yourself”, you won’t blame women, feminists, liberals, Marxists, advertisers, the government, chivalrous males, lesbians or the whole litany of the endless blame game. That blame and anger is part of your masculine process. It is that internal, unobserved masculine process that makes men the pudgy, miserable, aggressive, angry, confused harpies they tend to be, blaming everything in sight while being blind to their own uninspected contributions to their relationship misunderstandings.

    Self understanding is not a tactic. It can help one to understand women’s process better as well. Their process is just as conditioned and unhealthy as men’s.

  • PolishKnight

    “Finding yourself.” Where are you?

    Tony,

    I don’t think women were “finding themselves” during the past 40 years. On the contrary, such women have actually been exploited and manipulated by advertising agencies to buy lots of consumer goods to feel fulfilled (in leau of being a good wife nad mother), by marxists to work as a drone in the workplace for “independance”, and by feminists trying to lure them away from heterosexuality and make them into lesbians.

    Consequently, American women now have a worldwide reputation for being pudgy, miserable, aggressive, angry, confused harpies.

    Logically, I argue that a men’s movement shouldn’t utilize the same tactics as the feminist or “civil rights movement” because these were “one off” situations that took advantage of western white male chivalry and liberalism that caused the problems in the first place. It’s like trying to fix a broken watch with a hammer.

    If women truly had “found themselves” and were happy and secure, they wouldn’t seek to bash men as Martha does or engage in shaming tactics to “shut him up” so they can continue looking for more goodies to feed their insatiable addictive appetites. What’s clear is that it’s going to get much worse before it gets better. These women seek to exploit men and therefore, view them as sub-human and ultimately both fear and hate them in order to live with themselves. This goes for feminist apologists as well who like to say they are opposed to “radical feminism”. Given a choice, these “nice” feminists would happily sell all the men down the river just for some mo’ money for women in the workplace. In a heatbeat.

  • PolishKnight

    Questions for Rast4406

    Rast4406, you still haven’t told us what your relationship is like with your daughter. I get the impression that you cut her off and I think that was the proper thing to do. At the age of 15, many young men (and women) have their first part-time job and are expected to think about approaching adulthood.

    Ironically, she cut her nose off to spite her face here: She got herself removed from a cruise just to make you look bad. This young woman, and her mother, come across as cruel and deranged. I’m glad that I decided not to marry an American woman. I thought maybe I was being paranoid since single career women I dated almost always treated me (and everyone around them) with contempt and distrust. Now I see I wasn’t paranoid. It was blindingly obvious.

    Additionally, I’m curious if you saw this behaviour coming from your daughter in previous behaviour and if it escalated. I’ve had relationships with abusive female family members that I eventually reached a breaking point with and looking back, I see how this behavior escalated and established itself early on.

    I’m amazed at how many separated fathers act like martyrs for children that spit in their face for the effort. Isn’t allowing a child to act in such a manner towards someone trying to help them a form of positive-negative reinforcement? Won’t this contribute to them becoming abusive adults?

    Followup: I personally see these abusive relatives straining to restablish contact with me, but minimally since they hope that I’ll jump at the chance to be with them again so they can get away with being sadistic towards me like before. I’ve decided to hold out for a full apology. Do you think it will come? Has your ex and your daughter ever decided to come clean with you to move forward with their lives?

  • Robert Stevens

    If the media and all the other misinformed , misguided or just plain blind and stupid people ever realized, it is the destruction of the family unit, that is cause primarily by women and the “government terrorist” in the family court system that causes problems for our children. Why If I had a dime for every ” single mom” who had deluded herself into beleiving she could displine children as well as a man can, then I would be very wealthy. Women will sit there and tell you , they can do it, but they can’t . Most women, not all, but 80 percent either will not or can not displine adequately enough to produce well adjusted kids. They just can’t do it, no matter how much they claim they can and how much the legal system and the media makes excuses for them. Men and fathers are absolutely necessary, there is no substitute and no way to compensate for a missing or more likely “thrown out ” father.
    These people are either going to have to face the awful truth or let society fall down on their heads. I have a feeling it will be the latter and them it will get ugly.

  • Tony Ananda

    Interesting switch. For decades women have been “finding themselves” and responding to what they found in ways that many men didn’t like or were at least uncomfortable with. Many women found a lot of anger and blame that they then targeted at the men in their lives unfairly.

    Now men are taking the trouble to look within and are responding in ways that make women uncomfortable. Some men are finding that they aren’t too enthusiastic about jumping on board the success train. Some are reluctant to get aboard the marriage and family train.

    An old folk saying says: Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

  • amfortas

    rast4406 tells us: “and as we docked, I was surrounded by a phalanx of ship’s security, county and state police, and immigration officials”.

    Puts a whole new complexion on ‘you and whose army’. doesn’t it. Girls have perfected the game of ‘Let’s you and him, fight’, by age 7. By 15 their mothers have shown them how to mobilise the armed force of the State. And she – they- have the gall to say “”I no longer feel safe with my Father”.

    No man can feel safe with women today. Not even with sub-women. Not with their wives. Not with their daughters.

    It is Emotional Terrorism that men have to try to live with..

    And women wonder why men just don’t want to play anymore.

  • http://www.antipeonage.0catch.com Roger Knight

    These security and police idiots who surrounded rast because he dared to be a father who attempted to discipline an unruly child,

    Aren’t they fathers?

    The daughter is safe with the father, but are these uniformed idiots and the idiots who made these upside down polices?

    It is almost time to plead the Second Amendment.

  • college activist

    The feminist Klans use of constant anti-male propaganda on the radio/television/and newspapers has created a culture of anti-male hysteria!!

  • wheresmy40

    rast4406,

    I’m sorry to see your daughter has been shown to take the easy way out. Her mommy should be proud for instilling this quality in her as it will last a lifetime….a lifetime of unhappiness from bad choices. It’s vitally important that you keep yourself healthy (and out of jail) as you will be the one to blame for everything that goes wrong in that kid’s life. I’m sure your ex already blames you for her screwups.

    DON’T MARRY…..DON’T HAVE CHILDREN!

    P.S. How may I contact Mike LaSalle to donate as I refuse to use paypal?

  • rast4406

    “if my daughter did to me what that guy had done to him, she would forever be out of my life, my will and my thoughts. gotha indeed. wise up.”

    donnieboy –

    You’ll notice that I left out what my relationship with my daughter is now, how I’ve chosen to interact (or not) with her since those events.

    Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough, but I was trying to make the point that we’ve given fifteen year olds and vengeful ex-wives the ability to gainsay our disciplinary actions, no matter how mild. In addition to usurping that authority, we’ve handed the young ones amongst us the ability to jail daddy on a whim. Sure, after a while and piles of money burned at the altars in lawyer’s offices we might get lucky enough to walk free … but the cost … both financial and emotional is horrific. Many of us walk because the only way to win this game is never to play.

    As DaPoet said, “Never marry and don’t have children…Instead use yo hand instead of becoming intimate with a female each and every one of which is little better than a potentional financial rapist these days…”

    Sadly, I made poor, uninformed choices and now live the aftermath, tho’ I’m ten years into my personal marriage and woman strike – and you know what?

    In spite of issues like this one, I’m loving a femi-free life.

  • conservativation

    This is called projection.

  • DaPoet

    The Problem:

    DV laws weren’t created to protect wimmin from violent men but to destroy and nullify the authority of the father within the home while making him a financial slave to his wife and children…

    The Solution:

    Never marry and don’t have children…Instead use yo hand instead of becoming intimate with a female each and every one of which is little better than a potentional financial rapist these days…

  • Ed

    Please God, make the voices go away. Can anyone take this broad serious? How can this a**hole even write this crap?

    Did anyone bother to mention the great Amerikan inner cities where, above all else, “mom” rules supreme? Hello, ever hear of ghetto? Da hood? Where good ole dad is as scarce as the buffalo and antelope?

    Has no one read Warren Farrell’s books? The statistics on fatherless families documenting the failure of mothers raising children is frightening? And this fool tries to make a pathetic claim fathers are the problem?

    This broad is amazing. What’s worse we allow this loser to vote and drive.

    What an idiot.

  • http://www.decriminalizefatherhood.com DcFather

    What children need more than anything today is loving discipline from their father.

    But we live in an anti-father feminazi police state that says anything a father does is wrong. So I’d suggest letting the child do whatever they want as long as there is no serious and immediate threat for considerable harm to them, and hope the mother will discipline them since she can do so without fear of being criminalized.

    Getting berated for not discipling the children is better than being turned into a criminal for giving normal discpline in this particular catch-22 of fatherhood. Should such a situation arise where they can choose which parent it is they want to live with, they will most likely choose the one more lax in discipline.

    If both parents refuse to discipline, then a criminal delinquest is likely to result, but we would need to decriminalize fatherhood prior to holding him responsible for his failure to discipline if we were to return to just treatment of parents and children instead of the gender and money based approach we now employ.

  • donnieboy57

    if my daughter did to me what that guy had done to him, she would forever be out of my life, my will and my thoughts. gotha indeed. wise up.

  • GreatMRNI

    WOW, this is really outrageous. Why do we put up with this? These feminist must be stopped. Every man should be outraged, angry, and demand change. This society is in chaos and I’m concerned that one day we may wake up and decide to round up all these feminist and stick them on Antarctica, Hmmm. Hoist the jib!

  • rast4406

    Martha, let me tell you a story of when I attempted to discipline my daughter.

    A few months ago, I chose to take my fifteen year old daughter on a three day cruise. (Out of Florida, incidentally.)

    On the last evening of the cruise, she and I had a spat about a disrespectful tone she’d taken with me; as discipline, I put her to bed early.

    I was saddened and angry at the dispute; the cabin was small. I decided to step out and take a breath of air and let the situation depressurize. I returned in half an hour to see if she was alright.

    What did I find?

    Ship’s security and my daughter packing her bags. She’d contacted her mother, who’d convinced everyone that this was a safety issue; My daughter repeatedly used the phrase, “I no longer feel safe with my Father”. Even though I was to take her back to her mother’s house, her mother had decided to pick her up at the dock.

    My daughter spent the night with security, and as we docked, I was surrounded by a phalanx of ship’s security, county and state police, and immigragration officials. After turning my daughter over to my ex-wife and we were standing alone for a moment, my ex-wife turned to me and quietly said: “Gotcha!”

    And you know the really sad part of this tale?

    I was relieved that neither my ex nor my daughter filed domestic violence charges for daring to take a stand and discipline; I didn’t go to jail.

    So … next time you wonder why Fathers are timid to discipline their children?

    They might be wondering if they’ll end up in jail for it.

  • GladMadSadDad

    Martha must live on another planet. Many of the problems associated with children raised by single Mothers has everything to do with these single Moms acting as friends rather than parents.

    Although divorced, and having gone through a very acrimonious custody dispute years ago, my ex still relies on me to keep our boys in line. Not a week goes by when I don’t get several phone calls asking me to “talk to the boys”. My children respond more to me over the phone than they do their Mom when she’s there in person.

    I have been remarried for 7 years, and my wife readily concedes that our daughter responds more favorably to my discipline than to hers. I am more consistent and say what I mean much more often. While my wife is better than many Mothers, she still can’t seem to always do what she says she’s going to do.

    I think Martha is looking for excuses for the deplorable job done by single Mothers. The problem isn’t Dad as a friend, the problem remains the neutered Dad.

  • cjo

    Yeah, maybe in Florida!







Right.

Man up.

Buy the book now on Amazon.com. Or listen to Ronnie tell a story at escaping-from-reality.com.

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