Comments on: Phases of the fathers’ rights movement http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/ Men's Rights Activism, MRA Politics, Analysis, Commentary and Global News Sun, 22 Nov 2009 03:31:26 -1000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: merck http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53426 merck Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:05:08 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53426 How many followers does the so-called fathers’ rights movement have? How may people participate in these discussions? My guess is there are a few thousand internet followers who comprise the entire self-proclaimed fathers’ rights movement. Millions of good men and women refuse to pay the court ordered extortion and the number increases daily. These people are not “deadbeats”; they are good Americans who have simply had enough. These people are the fathers’ rights movement, not the few thousand internet groupies who claim to be the movement. In Baskerville’s words: “For all we can be certain, all 16 million parents now being pursued as quasi-criminals by armed enforcement agents of the federal government have been involuntarily separated from their children through no legal fault of their own”. I might add that millions of these fathers are simply paternity fraud victims or men denied the equal protection of our laws when it comes to decisions about parenting. Family Courts are using single females as a type of “cottage industry” to bring in billions in “much needed revenue for the state” via matching federal dollars for the collection of the much prized, so-called, “child support”. These men from all walks of life are the fathers’ rights movement. How many of you groupies have contributed to the ACFC drive to raise money for the promotion of Baskerville’s book? Kevin Merck How many followers does the so-called fathers’ rights movement have? How may people participate in these discussions? My guess is there are a few thousand internet followers who comprise the entire self-proclaimed fathers’ rights movement.

Millions of good men and women refuse to pay the court ordered extortion and the number increases daily. These people are not “deadbeats”; they are good Americans who have simply had enough. These people are the fathers’ rights movement, not the few thousand internet groupies who claim to be the movement.

In Baskerville’s words:

“For all we can be certain, all 16 million parents now being pursued as quasi-criminals by armed enforcement agents of the federal government have been involuntarily separated from their children through no legal fault of their own”.

I might add that millions of these fathers are simply paternity fraud victims or men denied the equal protection of our laws when it comes to decisions about parenting. Family Courts are using single females as a type of “cottage industry” to bring in billions in “much needed revenue for the state” via matching federal dollars for the collection of the much prized, so-called, “child support”.

These men from all walks of life are the fathers’ rights movement.

How many of you groupies have contributed to the ACFC drive to raise money for the promotion of Baskerville’s book?

Kevin Merck

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53340 Roger F. Gay Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:24:41 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53340 BTW: I think that last comment should be good news (so to speak) for radio talk show hosts. For those who have focused on men's / fathers' rights, it means relating to broader issues which may translate to a larger market share. To those who have had a broader focus on politics and change, it means that this is another important topic area to discuss. BTW: I think that last comment should be good news (so to speak) for radio talk show hosts. For those who have focused on men’s / fathers’ rights, it means relating to broader issues which may translate to a larger market share. To those who have had a broader focus on politics and change, it means that this is another important topic area to discuss.

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53214 Roger F. Gay Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:21:29 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53214 Thanks James. I recognize your perseverance as well and appreciate your many years of effort. What old-school and new-school should recognize is that Stephen’s thesis is much broader than the fathers’ rights movement (as we have known it so far). It should go beyond waking up parents (divorced or married). The same political mechanisms are eroding everyone’s rights and the country is going through profound changes. The attack on the institution of family is strategic; to eliminate the most powerful natural enemy of government oppression. Those who seek to destroy and control this country needed to make fathers’ public enemy #1. It was a divide and conquer approach. We are the natural allies with the vast majority of real people; with concerns and interests and reasons to protect and defend that are fundamental to life as we know it. It was a great trick to separate the interests of fathers and families in the public mind - but that trick has gotten old and is dissolving and the corruption has become apparent. A large number of people have already awoken from the spell. Thanks James. I recognize your perseverance as well and appreciate your many years of effort. What old-school and new-school should recognize is that Stephen’s thesis is much broader than the fathers’ rights movement (as we have known it so far). It should go beyond waking up parents (divorced or married). The same political mechanisms are eroding everyone’s rights and the country is going through profound changes. The attack on the institution of family is strategic; to eliminate the most powerful natural enemy of government oppression. Those who seek to destroy and control this country needed to make fathers’ public enemy #1. It was a divide and conquer approach. We are the natural allies with the vast majority of real people; with concerns and interests and reasons to protect and defend that are fundamental to life as we know it. It was a great trick to separate the interests of fathers and families in the public mind – but that trick has gotten old and is dissolving and the corruption has become apparent. A large number of people have already awoken from the spell.

]]> By: Jim Untershine http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53192 Jim Untershine Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:46:29 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53192 Roger Welcome back I always enjoyed reading your articles even before MensNewsDaily (see "The Child Support Guideline Problem", 1998, "http://adrr.com/law1/csp11.htm") . I could always count on you to provide an impeccable montage of historical events that led up to any issue that was currently up for debate. Yourself, Stephen Baskerville, and Glenn Sacks allowed MensNewsDaily to become the recognized voice of Family Law reform as soon as it was brought online. The 'old school' activists were forced to use Yahoo groups, forums, and email lists to spread their opinions to the victims of Family Law. The 'old school' audience has essentially dried up. Not because there are no more problems, but because all the problems have been identified, beaten to death, and they were never able to be solved. Everyone has heard it all before and have realized "THE FIX IS IN". Historically speaking we need people like yourself and Baskerville who have the ability to maintain your composure when describing a shit-storm (it's like wiping your ass with silk}. Leave the criminalizing and the name calling to me or Angry Harry, because we are fully invested in the outcome of this cause. There will be no 'outliers' in this movement, when all these silent victims achieve critical mass after reading Baskerville's new book. Every American parent must be allowed to understand that the political machinery set up to force families into Socialism is evolving into Fascism and Communism. "There ain't no squaring it - not this time - this ain't no bar-room brawl - or some creep with a gas can trying to torch someone - this is BIG. There is no settling down - this is blood for blood and by the gallons - this is the old days - the bad days - the all or nothin days. They're back - and there ain't no choices left - and I'm ready for war." (the movie 'Sin City') James D Untershine Control Systems Designer Long Beach, CA 90804 gzs@gndzerosrv.com www.gndzerosrv.com Roger

Welcome back

I always enjoyed reading your articles even before MensNewsDaily (see “The Child Support Guideline Problem”, 1998, “http://adrr.com/law1/csp11.htm”) . I could always count on you to provide an impeccable montage of historical events that led up to any issue that was currently up for debate.

Yourself, Stephen Baskerville, and Glenn Sacks allowed MensNewsDaily to become the recognized voice of Family Law reform as soon as it was brought online. The ‘old school’ activists were forced to use Yahoo groups, forums, and email lists to spread their opinions to the victims of Family Law.

The ‘old school’ audience has essentially dried up. Not because there are no more problems, but because all the problems have been identified, beaten to death, and they were never able to be solved. Everyone has heard it all before and have realized “THE FIX IS IN”.

Historically speaking we need people like yourself and Baskerville who have the ability to maintain your composure when describing a shit-storm (it’s like wiping your ass with silk}. Leave the criminalizing and the name calling to me or Angry Harry, because we are fully invested in the outcome of this cause.

There will be no ‘outliers’ in this movement, when all these silent victims achieve critical mass after reading Baskerville’s new book. Every American parent must be allowed to understand that the political machinery set up to force families into Socialism is evolving into Fascism and Communism.

“There ain’t no squaring it – not this time – this ain’t no bar-room brawl – or some creep with a gas can trying to torch someone – this is BIG. There is no settling down – this is blood for blood and by the gallons – this is the old days – the bad days – the all or nothin days. They’re back – and there ain’t no choices left – and I’m ready for war.” (the movie ‘Sin City’)

James D Untershine
Control Systems Designer
Long Beach, CA 90804
gzs@gndzerosrv.com
http://www.gndzerosrv.com

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53175 Roger F. Gay Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:47:17 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53175 Times have Changed Here's a rather informal observation that I think is interesting. I've looked back at some of my articles recently, in the process of helping others dig up reference material (aside from the articles themselves, my "commentary" was often laced with citations). I remember, in the context of the moment - with so much anti-father propaganda around - how carefully I wrote. But at the same time, each article felt like pushing for a radical change - and I felt on the edge - an outlier who needed to convince people to think differently - against a whole lot of people who were pushing the other way. Looking back, my articles now seem rather tame. There's nothing there that threatens to make me look like an outlier in the eyes of history. Competent, accurate, and in the end - right; the stuff just doesn't read like radical political material. Times have Changed

Here’s a rather informal observation that I think is interesting. I’ve looked back at some of my articles recently, in the process of helping others dig up reference material (aside from the articles themselves, my “commentary” was often laced with citations). I remember, in the context of the moment – with so much anti-father propaganda around – how carefully I wrote. But at the same time, each article felt like pushing for a radical change – and I felt on the edge – an outlier who needed to convince people to think differently – against a whole lot of people who were pushing the other way. Looking back, my articles now seem rather tame. There’s nothing there that threatens to make me look like an outlier in the eyes of history. Competent, accurate, and in the end – right; the stuff just doesn’t read like radical political material.

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53173 Roger F. Gay Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:37:55 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53173 Lloyd - look very carefully at the source of the data. Lloyd – look very carefully at the source of the data.

]]> By: Lloyd Selberg http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53171 Lloyd Selberg Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:11:06 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53171 Gus: Regarding your question about lesbians. I was thinking of doing an op-ed on some data that I ran into suggesting that the female mind is wired with little or no sex preference, and women in general are sexually motivated by men and women almost equally. Men in general, on the other hand are wired to strongly to be sexually motivated by females with and small percentage strongly attracted to other men. The bottom line is that sexual preference of men is a real brain function and that straight and gay men are fact, but no such clear distinction exist in women. For all practical purposes, one might say all women are bisexual and have a lesbian component. It again relates to the greater variance of men do to the single X chromosome as described in my More Tolling of the Bell Curve. Gus:

Regarding your question about lesbians. I was thinking of doing an op-ed on some data that I ran into suggesting that the female mind is wired with little or no sex preference, and women in general are sexually motivated by men and women almost equally. Men in general, on the other hand are wired to strongly to be sexually motivated by females with and small percentage strongly attracted to other men.

The bottom line is that sexual preference of men is a real brain function and that straight and gay men are fact, but no such clear distinction exist in women. For all practical purposes, one might say all women are bisexual and have a lesbian component. It again relates to the greater variance of men do to the single X chromosome as described in my More Tolling of the Bell Curve.

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53166 Roger F. Gay Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:43:33 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53166 Robert: Other civil rights movements did not have such an easy time. If it had been easy to get their problems recognized by a mass audience and solved, there would have been no reason for an historically significant movement. I note however, that such movements have not been successful but for the impatience of its members. These problems are not naturally solved next year, or the year after that, without action. I'm very interested in seeing what happens in response to Stephen's book. How much attention will it get? Can it and to what extent will it take the issue into the national debate during the election season? etc.? Robert: Other civil rights movements did not have such an easy time. If it had been easy to get their problems recognized by a mass audience and solved, there would have been no reason for an historically significant movement. I note however, that such movements have not been successful but for the impatience of its members. These problems are not naturally solved next year, or the year after that, without action. I’m very interested in seeing what happens in response to Stephen’s book. How much attention will it get? Can it and to what extent will it take the issue into the national debate during the election season? etc.?

]]> By: Robert Stevens http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53159 Robert Stevens Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:38:35 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53159 I don't know the fathers/mens movement stacks up against other "civil rights movements" in history. While most decent people recognize when other groups of people's rights and dignity are being violated, but they seem to miss this when it comes to fathers/men? While it is considered wrong to steal the property , money and children of other people, it seems to be O K when it is done to fathers/men. How long is it going to take people to realize fathers/men are human beings that deserve the same rights and protection as other more " politically correct" groups do! I give one very stern warning those that have violated the rights and dignity of fathers/men, it is GOING TO STOP! Either by recognizing that it is wrong and the appropriate and long over due civil rights legislation is passed. Or........ society will collaspe and the afore mentioned father/men will come after them will guns! But one way or another it is GOING TO STOP! I hope it is the former, but I am beginning to doubt, given the snails pace, that the fathers/mens rights movement has progressed. Well ... I wonder if our society has the time? Our society has some very serious problems and most of them stem from this " Little failed social engineering experiment" the feminist and the family courts are trying on the country. If we don't get a handle on the problems and soon . We may well have the collapse of society I was talking about. Then it will be far too late for those responsible to mend their ways. They will meet a painful and undignified end! And damn it ... they will deserve it! The fathers'men rights movement is still getting started, but is growing and growing exponentially. It is not if they are going to suceed , but when that will happen. I don’t know the fathers/mens movement stacks up against other “civil rights movements” in history. While most decent people recognize when other groups of people’s rights and dignity are being violated, but they seem to miss this when it comes to fathers/men? While it is considered wrong to steal the property , money and children of other people, it seems to be O K when it is done to fathers/men. How long is it going to take people to realize fathers/men are human beings that deserve the same rights and protection as other more ” politically correct” groups do!
I give one very stern warning those that have violated the rights and dignity of fathers/men, it is GOING TO STOP! Either by recognizing that it is wrong and the appropriate and long over due civil rights legislation is passed. Or…….. society will collaspe and the afore mentioned father/men will come after them will guns! But one way or another it is GOING TO STOP!
I hope it is the former, but I am beginning to doubt, given the snails pace, that the fathers/mens rights movement has progressed. Well … I wonder if our society has the time? Our society has some very serious problems and most of them stem from this ” Little failed social engineering experiment” the feminist and the family courts are trying on the country. If we don’t get a handle on the problems and soon . We may well have the collapse of society I was talking about. Then it will be far too late for those responsible to mend their ways. They will meet a painful and undignified end! And damn it … they will deserve it!
The fathers’men rights movement is still getting started, but is growing and growing exponentially. It is not if they are going to suceed , but when that will happen.

]]> By: Gus http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53156 Gus Tue, 16 Oct 2007 02:37:41 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53156 It wasthe lesbian-led feminist movement on campuses that presented women wit the false dichotomy that unless you hated men, you weren't a real woman. Very few women wanted to buck the trend. It wasthe lesbian-led feminist movement on campuses that presented women wit the false dichotomy that unless you hated men, you weren’t a real woman.
Very few women wanted to buck the trend.

]]> By: Gus http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53155 Gus Tue, 16 Oct 2007 02:27:40 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53155 And still no mention of the effect of the homosexual movement ,especially lesbians, on men. Frankly, I find that peculiar. And still no mention of the effect of the homosexual movement ,especially lesbians, on men. Frankly, I find that peculiar.

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53149 Roger F. Gay Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:38:29 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53149 Thanks college activist. Perhaps I misunderstand your comment, but just want to make sure that no one else is misinformed. I'm not the author of Save the Males. That's Richard Doyle's book. http://www.lulu.com/content/279780 Thanks college activist. Perhaps I misunderstand your comment, but just want to make sure that no one else is misinformed. I’m not the author of Save the Males. That’s Richard Doyle’s book.

http://www.lulu.com/content/279780

]]> By: college activist http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53146 college activist Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:58:44 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53146 Roger...Youre a talented, articulate writer!! Richard Doyle....menscollegeactivist recomends youre book..."save the males" second only to Dr. Farrell. Menscollegeactivist.org may be offering a Collegeactivist mens studies 2007 award!! Working out some of the details!! It will be an online vote, so stay informed!! Roger…Youre a talented, articulate writer!!

Richard Doyle….menscollegeactivist recomends youre book…”save the males” second only to Dr. Farrell.

Menscollegeactivist.org may be offering a Collegeactivist mens studies 2007 award!! Working out some of the details!!

It will be an online vote, so stay informed!!

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53143 Roger F. Gay Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:19:18 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53143 And in an exercise of pure logic - if the overwhelming evidence is that the whole gender is as bad as feminists say - then that defines the true nature of men. No government on earth has the moral authority to take away our nature. So, screw 'em anyway. And in an exercise of pure logic – if the overwhelming evidence is that the whole gender is as bad as feminists say – then that defines the true nature of men. No government on earth has the moral authority to take away our nature. So, screw ‘em anyway.

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53142 Roger F. Gay Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:15:48 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53142 Gus; You remind me of the first realization I had that the drum-beating members of the men's movement actually had a point. (I'm not sure whether I need to say so or not, but I'm not joking.) I read a piece by one of the more famous members of that movement (sorry I can't remember the name) where he tells of his meeting with a group of college students. He asked an opening question, and one young man responded that he was ashamed to be a male. Stephen points out in his book that it's been normal for men and boys to think they're an exception. All those other guys really must be as bad as they say, and therefore we're members of the bad gender even though we're not so bad. It's led to an effective form of brain-washing. Gus; You remind me of the first realization I had that the drum-beating members of the men’s movement actually had a point. (I’m not sure whether I need to say so or not, but I’m not joking.) I read a piece by one of the more famous members of that movement (sorry I can’t remember the name) where he tells of his meeting with a group of college students. He asked an opening question, and one young man responded that he was ashamed to be a male. Stephen points out in his book that it’s been normal for men and boys to think they’re an exception. All those other guys really must be as bad as they say, and therefore we’re members of the bad gender even though we’re not so bad. It’s led to an effective form of brain-washing.

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53141 Roger F. Gay Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:05:45 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53141 Something else likely under-represented in my outline are events in California. Although they've stuggled with the laws as much as anyone, there was at least more of a two-sided debate in local newspapers, views expressed by a few public officials, and even some serious success in holding back the tide in places. I recall responding to an article in Reason Magazine which was actually pretty good. The author was from California and discussed the case of a personal friend who was required to pay child support for a child that wasn't his. I'd read articles of that sort from California sources - they actually talked about some of the problems openly. Something else likely under-represented in my outline are events in California. Although they’ve stuggled with the laws as much as anyone, there was at least more of a two-sided debate in local newspapers, views expressed by a few public officials, and even some serious success in holding back the tide in places. I recall responding to an article in Reason Magazine which was actually pretty good. The author was from California and discussed the case of a personal friend who was required to pay child support for a child that wasn’t his. I’d read articles of that sort from California sources – they actually talked about some of the problems openly.

]]> By: Gus http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53140 Gus Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:01:07 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53140 I became a self-proclaimed men's rights in 1998 because I was amazed that American men had become so weak, so compliant and so lacking in self-worth as to accept what the feminists were dishing out. There were no books defending men then that I could find except one entitled "The Myth of the Male Monster and Other Feminist Fairy Tales" by a man I believe named Gordon. But what really amazed me was the degree to which American men had internalized the feminist garbage. I remember talking with a guy at the Y, complaining about feminism then receiving the reply, "We weren't very nice when we had the power." The real surprises were still ahead. A psychologist recommended a Universalist United Unitarian men's group when I asked him for one. I think he was deliberately leading me into an ideological trap because this group was astounding. When I defended something that John Leo had written, I saw real hate in some of those men's eyes. "I'm a mama's boy and I'm proud of it!" a Yalie said with real conviction. They were ecstatic over Willam Pollack's nut-piece about what real boys want. I didn't stay around there long. After my informal research ( I am still ashamed that the best book on what the feminists have done was written by a woman, Dr Christina Hoff Sommer's "The War Against Boys". She brought the beast out into the open accurately and eloquently. The question of why a man hasn't written a book of the same quality still bothers me.) I have come to some conclusions: 1. Most American men are afraid of women. That is one reason why women are allowed to be much more socially aggrssive than men. We have no role models for men setting expectations and limits on women. If a little old lady starts complaining to a man he turns to putty in her hands. If I start complaining, being larger and of the same sex as the guy, they call the cops. American boys are raised in a feminine social atmosphere with a weak father culture. This is one thing that has to be changed and seems to be doing so, thanks to 9/11. Gen Petraeus isn't a girl. The ridiculous spin that feminist writers like Bonnie Erbe tried to put on the Jessica Lynch episode, making her out to be John Wayne when she joined the Army so she could become a kindergarten teacher was the epitome of silliness. And I have talked to fathers who realize that they have a responsibility here that they haven't met before. Young men are also being more cautious about disregarding the feminist cant about "men being afraid of responsibility" and similar foolishness. 2. When the tensions between heterosexual men and women really surface, it is going to be messy. And there is no way around that. It will include everything from spats to divorces. Being women, feminists, and women in general, do not understand reason. They only understand power. Mind you, I am not saying "force" which implies coercion but "power" which is the ability to do something and the willingness to do it. It is not true that men are powerless. Check out any day-time serial or the magazines at the check-out counters in super-markets. They are a little racier than they were in the 50's but the are still basically concerned about male-female relationships. The problem is that we are afraid of using our power because we have been led to believe that men need women more than women need men. How many books entitle"How To Find a Wife" are there as opposed to books on finding a husband? 3. I saw no mention of the effect of the emergence of the homosexual movement in any of the above comments. That is a huge mistake in my opinion. Lesbians and heterosexual men are sexual competitors. I don't know how many of you guys have experienced lesbian hate but I have. And the leaders of the feminist movement had a very large lesbian component. Why was Rosie O'Donnell such a draw on "The View" before she self-destructed? Men will regain thir rightful pride and regard for being a man when they adopt the Rhett Butler philosophy so eloquently expressed when he says to Scarlett O'Hara, who was going to conquer the world in the first page with her 16 inch waist and blue tafata dress, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!" I became a self-proclaimed men’s rights in 1998 because I was amazed that American men had become so weak, so compliant and so lacking in self-worth as to accept what the feminists were dishing out.
There were no books defending men then that I could find except one entitled
“The Myth of the Male Monster and Other Feminist Fairy Tales” by a man I believe named Gordon.
But what really amazed me was the degree to which American men had internalized the feminist garbage. I remember talking with a guy at the Y, complaining about feminism then receiving the reply, “We weren’t very nice when we had the power.”
The real surprises were still ahead. A psychologist recommended a Universalist United Unitarian men’s group when I asked him for one. I think he was deliberately leading me into an ideological trap because this group was astounding.
When I defended something that John Leo had written, I saw real hate in some of those men’s eyes. “I’m a mama’s boy and I’m proud of it!” a Yalie said with real conviction.
They were ecstatic over Willam Pollack’s nut-piece about what real boys want.
I didn’t stay around there long.
After my informal research ( I am still ashamed that the best book on what the feminists have done was written by a woman, Dr Christina Hoff Sommer’s “The War Against Boys”. She brought the beast out into the open accurately and eloquently. The question of why a man hasn’t written a book of the same quality still bothers me.) I have come to some conclusions:
1. Most American men are afraid of women. That is one reason why women are allowed to be much more socially aggrssive than men. We have no role models for men setting expectations and limits on women. If a little old lady starts complaining to a man he turns to putty in her hands. If I start complaining, being larger and of the same sex as the guy, they call the cops.
American boys are raised in a feminine social atmosphere with a weak father culture. This is one thing that has to be changed and seems to be doing so, thanks to 9/11. Gen Petraeus isn’t a girl.
The ridiculous spin that feminist writers like Bonnie Erbe tried to put on the
Jessica Lynch episode, making her out to be John Wayne when she joined the Army so she could become a kindergarten teacher was the epitome of silliness.
And I have talked to fathers who realize that they have a responsibility here that they haven’t met before.
Young men are also being more cautious about disregarding the feminist cant about “men being afraid of responsibility” and similar foolishness.
2. When the tensions between heterosexual men and women really surface, it is going to be messy. And there is no way around that. It will include everything from spats to divorces. Being women, feminists, and women in general, do not understand reason. They only understand power. Mind you, I am not saying “force” which implies coercion but “power” which is the ability to do something and the willingness to do it.
It is not true that men are powerless. Check out any day-time serial or the magazines at the check-out counters in super-markets. They are a little racier than they were in the 50’s but the are still basically concerned about male-female relationships. The problem is that we are afraid of using our power because we have been led to believe that men need women more than women need men.
How many books entitle”How To Find a Wife” are there as opposed to books on finding a husband?
3. I saw no mention of the effect of the emergence of the homosexual movement in any of the above comments.
That is a huge mistake in my opinion. Lesbians and heterosexual men are sexual competitors. I don’t know how many of you guys have experienced lesbian hate but I have.
And the leaders of the feminist movement had a very large lesbian component. Why was Rosie O’Donnell such a draw on “The View” before she self-destructed?
Men will regain thir rightful pride and regard for being a man when they adopt the Rhett Butler philosophy so eloquently expressed when he says to Scarlett
O’Hara, who was going to conquer the world in the first page with her 16 inch waist and blue tafata dress, “Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn!”

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53131 Roger F. Gay Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:32:34 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53131 Hello Richard. I hope you know that I had no intention of slighting you, and welcome your comments. My view of things began in fact at what seems to me like the start of the fathers' rights movement, and I'm much less familiar with the men's movement that existed before that time. Hello Richard. I hope you know that I had no intention of slighting you, and welcome your comments. My view of things began in fact at what seems to me like the start of the fathers’ rights movement, and I’m much less familiar with the men’s movement that existed before that time.

]]> By: Richard Doyle http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53130 Richard Doyle Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:16:53 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53130 I propose that the men's/fathers' rights movement commenced long before Roger suggests, long before my involvement of 40 + years. The history is far too lengthy to post here, but an abbreviated history appears on the Mens Defense Association website: www.mensdefense.org. The site links to my book "Save the Males," the latest, and extensive, revision of which is in progress and should be available in about a month. I propose that the men’s/fathers’ rights movement commenced long before Roger suggests, long before my involvement of 40 + years. The history is far too lengthy to post here, but an abbreviated history appears on the Mens Defense Association website: http://www.mensdefense.org. The site links to my book “Save the Males,” the latest, and extensive, revision of which is in progress and should be available in about a month.

]]> By: Roger F. Gay http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-53128 Roger F. Gay Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:19:32 +0000 http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/10/14/phases-of-the-fathers%e2%80%99-rights-movement/#comment-53128 Ed - The personal has become political - literally. Federal appellate courts have soundly established the principle. Death to the individual. Death to the Bill of Rights. They're beyond coming after men / fathers already. I think that's something everyone needs to understand. The war against fathers was merely a spearhead. So - since we're not all literally dead yet, we shouldn't sluff this off with the old wisdom about coming after one group at a time until no one is left. The age of broadening alliances has begun. We must win and we will. Ed – The personal has become political – literally. Federal appellate courts have soundly established the principle. Death to the individual. Death to the Bill of Rights. They’re beyond coming after men / fathers already. I think that’s something everyone needs to understand. The war against fathers was merely a spearhead. So – since we’re not all literally dead yet, we shouldn’t sluff this off with the old wisdom about coming after one group at a time until no one is left. The age of broadening alliances has begun. We must win and we will.

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