From WomenPayingSupport.com–’Be a Man…Don’t Ask for Spousal Support
“You’ve never heard complaints about paying child support until it’s a woman who has to pay it.”–Seattle Family Law Attorney Lisa Scott
“The only way to abolish alimony is to make women pay it.”–Tom Leykis, nationally-syndicated talk show host.
When men work hard to support their families, they’re often accused of victimizing their poor wives who have to stay at home, chained to their children. The National Organization for Women and other feminist groups often argue that these men don’t deserve joint custody after divorce because they “never took primary responsibility for raising their kids while they were married.” When divorce comes and men have to pay child support and alimony, they dare not complain, or they’ll be accused of disrespecting their long-suffering ex-wives who sacrificed their careers for their families.
So if men who are primary breadwinners can’t win, what about men who are primary caregivers? As usual with the gender wars, men can’t win here, either. Primary caregiving men are often looked upon with contempt by society and sometimes their wives, while their value as caregivers is short shrifted, as mom is still the “real” parent.
(Example–I’ve been my kids’ primary caregiver for the past nine years, but whenever there’s a new employee at my kids’ schools, they call my wife at her office during the day if one of our kids is ill and needs to go home early.)
(Another example–I recall a meeting at my son’s school several years ago when a visiting female administrator walked in, warmly greeted my wife, and then looked at me and asked, “And who might you be?” I felt like replying, “The person who’s taken my kids to school, picked them up and done their homework with them every day, as well as having gone to every single Parent Conference/Back to School Night/Open House for the last I don’t know how many years.” I stifled it and just replied “I’m the dad,” at which point she said hello and then turned to my wife and began explaining the issues my son was having. I wish I had it on film.)
(One more example–A little while ago I actually read a feminist blogger criticize me for victimizing my poor, hard-working wife and sponging off of her, a phrase I’ve never heard her use when describing a woman who both works full-time and is the primary caregiver for her children. For the record, I earn a living with my writing, etc., and my wife wants to be a stay-at-home mom about as much as she’d like to test experimental parachute designs.)
As the press release below shows, when divorce comes, primary caregiving men had better not dare ask for child support or alimony, or they’re not “real men.”
Funny how when dad is the primary breadwinner, it’s poor mom who is the burdened one, yet when mom is the primary breadwinner, all of a sudden she’s the hard-working hero and dad is a lazy bum. In reality, despite the “lazy husband” myth, research clearly shows that both men and women contribute an equal number of hours towards their households–to learn more, see my co-authored column Are American Husbands Slackers? (Tallahassee Democrat, 3/22/06).
Unlike many in the men’s and fathers’ movement, I believe that alimony does have a place. I believe alimony is warranted when one partner–male or female–really has put aside or cut back his or her career to be the primary caregiver for his or her children, and is economically disadvantaged because of it. I certainly think alimony can be abused, usually by women but occasionally by men.
Below is a new press release I just received from www.WomenPayingSupport.com. In their view, men who receive alimony are lazy bums, and they attempt to shame men out of it by using the phrase always used to get men to do something which is not in their best interest–”Be a Man.” That being said, the ladies may well have a legitimate grievance. But if we’re going to tackle the inequities of divorce and family law in order of importance, we have many, many problems to tackle before we get all the way down to the problem of women paying alimony.
Women are Increasingly Paying Spousal Support;
WomenPayingSupport.com Launched
You don’t have to be as successful as Britney Spears or Reese Witherspoon to fear getting sued for alimony. Like the founder of WomenPayingSupport.com, more women today are obligated to pay their ex-husbands some form of financial support. Call it the dark side of the liberation coin.
SACRAMENTO, Calif., October 18, 2007 – The picture of equality looks awfully strange to a 36-year old State of California worker and business owner. (AKA “Ms. Bread Winner”.) She pays her ex, a 41 year-old fellow state worker, hundreds of dollars per month in temporary spousal support.
He’s not seeking alimony to help pay for their son’s after-school sports program or music lessons – there are none. Nor was he instrumental in building Ms. Bread Winner’s business as he sat on the couch, smoked pot and professed he was “sick” throughout their 15-year marriage. The daughter of an Air Force Master Sergeant, she started working for the state when she was 18 and has since risen and excelled as an IT Analyst. She’s also worked furiously to ensure the additional education and success of her home business while raising a family. Small wonder she is outraged at having to write a monthly alimony check.
“I thought spousal support was for people who were out of the work force, to raise a family for example. It might take them longer to support themselves.”, says Ms. Bread Winner. “Maybe it’s my upbringing, but it never occurred to me that I, as a woman, would have to pay spousal support. It was bad enough that I primarily supported him when we were married, but to continue when we are divorced?! I’m so mad that I created a pixel support website, www.WomenPayingSupport.com where people can vent and get a t-shirt with my logo on it!”
No doubt Ms. Bread Winner will find more than a few buyers for her t-shirts. The idea that men can receive spousal support from their ex-wives may feel like a freakish concept but as the alpha-earner woman by need, not desire as in the case of Ms. Bread Winner, have emerged, it’s increasingly common.
A lot of women are indignant now that the shoe is increasingly on the other foot, says Carol Ann Wilson, a certified financial divorce practitioner in Boulder, Colo. “There’s a sense of, “What’s yours is ours, but what’s mine is mine.” Wilson says, “My first response to that is, “All these years we have been carrying our families while looking for equality; well this is what it looks like upon divorce. I know women get angrier about having to pay than men do.” (more…)
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Stumble It!
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:51 am
That slow, dripping sound you hear is my heart bleeding for them.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:22 am
“”The only way to abolish alimony is to make women pay it.”–Tom Leykis, nationally-syndicated talk show host.”
And as he so often is, Tom is spot-on with respect to this particular issue.
Pain and suffering only seem to count in our society when a person with a vagina is the one feeling the pain.
The surest way to mandate better treatment for men requires that women be treated legally as their equals.
Like rastus, it’s difficult to feel ANY sympathy for women who don’t enjoy paying hundreds or thousands of dollars monthly to men, even men who may have cheated on them……….
You’ve come a long way, baby. Enjoy the fruits of your battle for “equality”.
And for those sorry bitches who stated on womenpayingsupport.com that a guy should “be a man” and refuse to ask for alimony – TOO EFFING BAD!
YOU MADE YOUR BED! NOW SLEEP IN IT!
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:31 am
Waaaaaaa, what a bum!
Yawn.
Guess the dark sid of the moon ain’t paved with gold after all. Well, here’s the prize: “You Won!”. Ain’t gonna have to depend on no man no more no more! Hit the road Jack and don’t ya come back no more no more. No siree! You go grrrrrl. You free now, you a strong in-de-pend-ant w-o-o-o-o-m-a-n!
Oh, one more thing, “check’s in the mail Jack”
Man, what a hoot!
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Glenn wrote:
Unlike many in the men’s and fathers’ movement, I believe that alimony does have a place. I believe alimony is warranted when one partner–male or female–really has put aside or cut back his or her career to be the primary caregiver for his or her children, and is economically disadvantaged because of it.
I like his article and respect his views, but I think it’s up to him to support, even in a form of a one paragraph summary, his beliefs especially when stating a contrarian view.
I shall support mine: The notion of someone being “disadvantaged” due to their own 100% personal choices and expecting someone else to foot the bill is something only women can get away with in our culture. These women aren’t martyrs: They are enjoying someone else footing the bill which is what few of them are willing to do for men. Women with this world-owes-me-a-living attitude are now often finding that there aren’t men lining up with open wallets ready to support their “sacrifice.” The men NOW OFTEN say quite simply that if she loves her career so much, she can keep it. And then the rationalizations start:
“I’m making this sacrifice FOR THE CHILDREN!!!”
Does this mean, then, that these women must automatically view women who DON’T make this noble, heroic sacrifice as not loving their children? I’ve seen these mommy wars take place and the feminists take a page out of The Life of Brian: “Let’s not forget sisters who the real enemy is… men!”
So it’s a necessary sacrifice FOR THE CHILDREN unless… the woman decides to just dump them into cheap day care or pay an MS-13 gang member below market wages as a nanny.
Balderdash!
Here’s how it should work: If a woman wants a man to support her, she should treat him with the utmost respect and consideration both before, during, and after courtship and the marriage. Having someone else pay the bills is a HUGE luxury, not an ENTITLEMENT. Glenn likes to sell himself short. I don’t.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Career women sacrifices
This warrants it’s own seperate comment.
Gentlemen, wouldn’t it be hilarious if millions of career women, who already have a reputation for being miserable about a lack of upper income men to date and marry up to, were to openly tell these men that in addition to him busting his hump to compete with her in the workplace that he should also sign off on being liable for her “career sacrifice” to quit her hobby job when it suits her?
Don’t laugh! Get this!!! I actually KNOW young men who have been in this position. They told me that they dated a hot looking but slightly older woman (in her late 20’s early 30’s) and they were desperate to have children and quit their jobs and get married ASAP and they acted like the man was somehow a beneficiary.
The skid marks these young men left are still in the carpets.
Glenn, the women are right: “Being a man” means accepting responsibility for one’s life choices and to be happy if someone paid the bills for them. Or more accurately, that’s what being an ADULT should mean. Unfortunately, “women” and “helpless entitled spoiled adolescent” are synonymous terms in our culture.
If a man wants a good housewife whom do you think he will pick? The entitled and bitter former career woman with a divorce lawyer on speed dial OR a young woman who maybe had that in mind all along? Someone who maybe worked at decent, but not high paying jobs she won’t miss (medical receptionist, dental assistance, secretary, etc.) and built up a repetoire of personal skills in her spare time (music, art, cooking, conversation, etc.) and spends time on her appearance?
I went out with career women and they were AWFUL. Lessee: They sat around on the other side of the table because they, like many men, outside of the workplace they don’t have much to do or talk about. They didn’t keep a very clean house. They didn’t have any hobbies or if they did, they used them against me (_I_ know about world history. You don’t? You don’t deserve me then!) They had the table manners and grace of Donald Trump.
Why, oh why, would ANY man want to have these women “sacrifice” their career to become a housewife? I see Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and these kinds of women are slovenly housekeepers and then the men get nagged by the queers for not being more helpful around the home. Well, _he has a job!!!_ What’s her excuse?
It would seem that alimony is just another straw on the camel’s back of pricing these women out of the market. Way way way overpriced. Like a 2 bedroom condo in the Bay Area…
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:15 pm
It is a crime of peonage either way.
Tom Leykis may be right. If a mother was ordered to work at least 30 hours each week or make three job contacts to pay child support, she can challenge this as declared null and void by the Antipeonage Act and get a somewhat more sympathetic hearing.
The system, however, is reluctant to burn the mothers as much as it burns the fathers.
Because if they did, the Child Support Crusade not only would not be so popular, but its constitutional flaws and its violation of the anti-slavery laws would not be so invisible to the public.
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Gues it’s womens turn to “be a man” and shut up & pay up.
October 23rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Notice the creator of this WomenPayingSupport.com website is charging $20 for each cry-baby woman paying child support to whine on the site about supporting their children.
Ha! ha! This woman (if it’s a woman) is smart. She’s trying to get her child support paid off the backs of her fellow cry-baby women. I hope the guy she’s paying the support to finds out about all the extra money she’s making and takes her back to court to get the support upgraded.
I kinda hope it’s a guy doing this. I like the idea of cry-baby women putting money into the pocket of some smart guy for a change.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:14 pm
“The surest way to mandate better treatment for men requires that women be treated legally as their equals.”
I couldn’t agree more. It is in fact men who are challenging women’s privilege, not the other way around. Women HATE equal treatment.
“I kinda hope it’s a guy doing this. I like the idea of cry-baby women putting money into the pocket of some smart guy for a change.”
What an awesome idea…..collect a crapload of free money, then tell ‘em all you’re really a guy. Absolutely delicious.
October 23rd, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Notice how the need to disparage him is immediate and complete: he just smoked pot and complained he was sick.
HOWEVER(!), when the women is the beneficiary her status as a GOOD person DOESN’T MATTER!
In fact, wasn’t there just an article a few weeks back about a man who wanted to stop paying alimony to his ex because she was guilty of manslaughter in the slaying of their son?
Funny that she’s entitled to alimony, but if any men happened to be lucky enough to get off the hamster wheel for a short while and enjoy being his kids primary care-giver he’s supposed to “man-up” and not ask for support.
Nowadays when I’m being told to ‘man-up’ in some or other article (in my mind) it more accurately means ‘chump-up.’
Pay for dates? Chump-up. Work overtime to pay lavish “the good life” on a woman? Chump-up. Work long hours (or commute) so you’re wife (and mother of your children) doesn’t have to work? Chump-up.
All of these things can and will be used against you in a court of law turning you into a virtual slave. LET NO GOOD DEAD GO UNPUNISHED!
Chivalry IS dead and feminist leaders are holding the smoking gun.
October 23rd, 2007 at 8:27 pm
“Be a man”!
What man is that? The “all men are rapists” man? The sucker? The Jerk? The Creep? The Useless Dork? the “Men !! “(tm) ?
Get f*cked, lady.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:46 pm
The Supreme Court rules in Frontiero v. Richarson that both genders are entitled to same amount of support.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0411_0677_ZO.html
October 24th, 2007 at 5:56 am
Bu…but… the money is not for HIMmmmmmmm! It’s for the children! Honest!
TMOTS
October 24th, 2007 at 6:28 am
How about a new slogan for men’s movement … “Be a Woman. Pay your fair share.”
October 24th, 2007 at 7:25 am
Face it, women, American or otherwise, are just prostitutes trying to be expensive prostitutes.
Actually, that’s not such a bad thing (Prostitution occurs in lots of non-human species), except when women refuse to admit it and overdo their manipulative hypocrisy.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:06 am
KRS said,
How about a new slogan for men’s movement … “Be a Woman. Pay your fair share.”
Not quite. It should be “Be a Woman. Pay your EQUAL share.”
After all, who understands equality better than the AmeriKan fem-nuts?
October 24th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
“Get f*cked, lady.”
Best post that you’ve written lately, Amfortas!