Feminist Bloggers on the Warpath Against Me Again, this Time over ‘Power & Control in the Domestic Violence Industry–a New DV Wheel’
Background: Last month feminist bloggers Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon and Jeff Fecke of Shakespeare’s Sister vehemently attacked me over comments about the domestic violence issue I had made in an interview. The interview was by Pajamas Media advice columnist Dr. Helen Smith and can be seen at Fighting for Men’s Rights (Pajamas Media, 10/8/07), and if anybody can figure out what I said that was so offensive you’re a hell of a lot smarter than I am. To learn more about that debate, click here.
Feminist blogger Jeff Fecke and his compatriot Melissa McEwan are on the warpath against me again. Jeff’s new attack piece The Tune’s the Same, Only the Words Have Changed criticizes my recent blog post Power & Control in the Domestic Violence Industry–a New DV Wheel. In that post I wrote:
“Many readers are familiar with the Duluth Wheel, a visual representation of the feminist view that domestic violence is perpetrated almost exclusively by men and is a function of the patriarchy and men’s alleged patriarchal privileges. For three decades, research has shown that this model is faulty, that women are at least as likely to attack their male partners as vice versa, and that a significant percentage of injuries in heterosexual domestic violence are sustained by men. Research shows that women use weapons and the element of surprise to help balance the domestic scales…
“Recently an authority in the domestic violence field sent me and others this new Domestic Violence Wheel which ‘visually represents some of the obstacles that reform-minded individuals such as yourselves have had to encounter over the years.’”
Jeff writes:
“Ah, Glenn Sacks. For a guy who says he thinks women should be free and equal, he sure spends a lot of time finding reasons that we should repeal all the domestic violence laws. Take his latest creation, the Domestic Violence Wheel, which documents the massive amount of power women have gained by having legal recourse to get out of bad situations.
“While reading through this little wheel of inanity, it occurred to me that I’d seen this sort of rhetoric before. The complaints about the mainstream ignoring them, anger that ideas had been hijacked. It was all so familiar. And then it hit me: I’ve seen the same words coming out of the mouths of the global warming deniers and the evolution deniers!
“I don’t know what it is about denialists that leads them down the same path, but boy, they sure seem to find it…apart from their rhetoric, these three breeds of denialists all share another thing in common: they’re all absolutely, 100% wrong.”
A few points:
1) I realize that Fecke compares me to “global warming deniers and the evolution deniers” as a way of discrediting me, but the analogy seems rather attenuated. Worse, he doesn’t factually contest what is asserted in the DV Wheel, but instead merely tells us it must be wrong because it’s somehow like those who deny global warming and evolution. It’s not much of an argument.
Some feminists have a bad habit of doing this–if you’re against something a feminist group wants, it’s like you’re against women voting. If you say something positive about fathers’ previous role in society, they say, “People used to think slavery was good.”
(As an aside, I believe in evolution, and I think the preponderance of the evidence shows that global warming is real, too. However, I know nothing of science, so I rarely comment on such matters.)
2) Everybody makes mistakes, but Fecke’s sloppiness seems to be more than an occasional thing. He calls the wheel “[Sacks'] latest creation,” even though it’s right there in my original post that the wheel was designed by “an authority in the domestic violence field.” This authority currently prefers to remain anonymous, though that may change. I’d happily claim credit for the Wheel, but it isn’t mine.
3) Fecke implies that when I and those who agree with me describe the domestic violence establishment as an “industry,” we are considering it a “conspiracy.” I don’t believe the DV establishment is a conspiracy, but I do believe that it’s an industry. This doesn’t mean that I think the average DV shelter worker is getting rich any more than I think the average oil field roustabout is getting rich. But the domestic violence establishment (and, even more so, the child support enforcement establishment), often do behave like industries or government bureaucracies. They work to protect and expand their funding, they exaggerate and distort problems in order to justify keeping or increasing their funding, they lobby (officially or unofficially), and they work the media.
The DV industry, like most industries, certainly does some good but, like most industries, also does some harm. Society rightfully despises the wifebeater, but the specter of the wifebeater has been used to justify many destructive policies and civil liberties violations. I don’t want to get rid of the domestic violence establishment–I want to reform it.
There’s a good quote, by Lenin of all people, that the proper way to win a political debate is to counter your opponents’ best arguments, not their worst. If Fecke and his friends are interested in countering myself and others who advocate reform in the domestic violence establishment, they’d do better to deal with our actual arguments, rather than painting spurious analogies between us and groups they consider extremist.
Fecke’s full post can be seen here.
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Stumble It!
November 8th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
“”Ah, Glenn Sacks. For a guy who says he thinks women should be free and equal, he sure spends a lot of time finding reasons that we should repeal all the domestic violence laws.”
Glenn, you might also point out that VAWA does not attempt to make “women free and equal”, it provides special protections, funding and support systems for women that almost always do translate into equal protections, funding and support systems for men.
Don’t expect that walking, talking male vagina to debate you honestly – he’s a feminazi, and he uses feminazi tactics – devoid of integrity, not to mention a logic basis for what passes for his “arguments”.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Sounds like they’re piling on.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Glenn, I should add that you expose feminists’ machinations within our nation’s judicial and legislative systems on a regular basis.
You also expose the D.V. industry and its perversion of justice, not to mention rich payoffs from taxpayers’ pockets, courtesy of Congress.
No doubt human vermin like Fecke and McEwan would like you silenced but know that they cannot accomplish this end.
So they are attempting to discredit you, instead…. hoping against hope that someday you stumble badly so that they feel that they can claim that ALL of your past work has been discredited.
You
November 8th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Gore suggested the debate for global warming is over and that he is 100% correct in his view and those who support him believe every word. His believers think anyone who disagrees is being paid off or ignorant. It turns out that some of the scientists lumped in with those who agree 100% with him really don’t agree 100% – some of the hardly agree at all. And of those scientists who speak out against Gore’s claims, it turns out that many are not getting paid by any group as their detractors claim, one scientist with an old car suggested that if he was getting paid off he would upgrade his car. And why are the ice caps on Mars melting anyway, too many cars? Too many Burger Kings? I believe Gore has part of the truth, maybe even a lot of it, but to say “the debate is over” and we don’t need to hear any other views is wrong. What we need is the truth and then programs developed to help fix any problems that we are sure of.
I am not opposing or siding with Gore’s views, but I HATE it when someone decides there is no room for debate. The DV industry has tried to shut down debate, and it’s only been the last five years that they started to worry about losing their grip. Let’s follow the money. Billions are spent on women centered DV programs. Power, profit, and prestige follow. These women don’t want to give that up and they have the bucks and the votes to influence the ignorant.
The DV industry, and safe houses have shut the door on debate since they hyjacked the safe house movement from Pizzy in the 70’s. Feminists claimed for 25 years that 99 percent of all DV comes from men – so far from the truth that they should be turned out on the streets to let true experts initiate new DV programs working with both gender. When feminists claim 99% of DV comes from men “in homes where DV occurs child abuse is common” we are told. They imply that all child abuse is also the fault of violent men. That was, and still is, sexist propaganda. They told us that there was no use for debate, just watch one of the many films of men beating women if you don’t get it. Just look at the T shirts of female victims, if you don’t get it, and know this, women never lie. BS
The cycle of violence. What’s missing in the cycle of violence as demonstrated by brain dead feminists is obvious to many of us. Their story: The man becomes agitated because of “testosterone poisoning” followed by “The bitch didn’t get his beer fast enough” so he beats her – and he feels better but doesn’t want to lose his cook, sex machine, … so he cries, begs to be forgiven, and then beats her again again. The only change to the story is that he doesn’t beg and cry, he threatens to kill her if she leaves.
What was missing and still is: Women/mothers, commit most child abuse and boys are most often injured or killed. Steve DeLuca’s cycle of violence stars with child abuse. Yes, much of it does come from fathers but it’s mostly from women. Tens of thousands of mothers across the country beat the crap out of their kids, boys mostly, for years. The boy has been slapped, slugged, kicked, (As well as being demeaned by feminist teachers and feminist slogans – harsh views of boys tossed his way in school, or in his community, with women centered “awareness” programs: Oct, “DV awareness month”, “Women’s History Month” April is “Sexual assault awareness month” Valentines day is now V day for Vagina Monologues ) and not once while women bash men and boys do the feminist ever discuss the start, the precursor, the first act of gender war when a woman, four times as big as her son slams him into a wall, shakes him, kicks him, screams at him, slaps him violently across his face, … while telling him his dad, and all men, are pieces of shit. Never once do feminsts ask themselves a simple question. What if tens of thousands of women beat and humiliate their sons, say a dozen, or a hundred, or a thousand times over the first 12 years of his life, is it possible that, say, a few hundred of them when they grow to be men might decide to strike back at women. When those men, beaten and humiliated for many years, realize that this screaming bitch (I know, most are innocent victims and only a few are screaming bitches – but for the purposes here let’s pretend that like many females and males who are abused as children, he marries a woman a lot like his mom, an abusive, screaming bitch) and suddenly the rage against his mother, a rage he could not express to that large and in charge, adult woman who towered over him, the mother he could not get to stop with his tears, and protests… hey, some primitive part recognizes, I don’t have to take this shit from any woman anymore, … I could just slap this bitch, pow.
Most DV occurs in the lower classes where too often both partners grew up with abuse which caused many to do poorly in school, to not “make it” in the work world as adults. Living in poverty, with stress and booze and drugs playing a part leads to violence by both, … isn’t child abuse really the first step toward understanding DV? Isn’t the view of the cycle of violence as shared by feminist women (and their dorky male protectors) always shown as rage coming from a male face and fist, and the victim is always a pretty white woman, or pretty Mexican, who was slapped because she didn’t get the beer fast enough… seem based on propaganda, or gender profiling. Why are women silent about their own abuse of children, siblings, lovers, and parents.
Let’s show that image of a woman who weights 150 to 200 lbs, beating up a boy who weighs 40, often, for reasons that are more about her anger than his disobedience. Let’s show that as the first step in the cycle of violence, always, from now on, and never accept the views that depend on propaganda and gender profiling from now on.
And let’s not allow weasels like Jeff to go unchallenged as he does what feminist men do best, please his mama, so he can feel loved, and better than other men and prove he is not as badly Y chromosome challenged as most men. (I know, I am not his therapist, but that’s what I have seen from feminist men so far: Disrespect of men, ignorance of gender issues, and a real need to “protect” women from bad men. As a friend of mine who teaches women’s history would say, such men are “Psychologically castrated by the victim feminist movement.”)
November 8th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Good work Glenn, keep going. Their response indicate that they are being hit were it hurts and that they cannot cope with rational arguements.
November 8th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
While working with teens in Hawaii and Colorado, and with prisoners in civilian and army prisons, and volunteering with druggies and alcoholics, after growing up in a violent neighborhood and a violent family, I was less than amused when I saw the feminist, feminized, gender profiling image of the “cycle of violence” as presented by feminists who profited (financially and emotionally) from the DV industry.
25 years of claims that 99% of DV comes from men “And in homes where DV occurs, the children are often abused too” lead to that chart while implying – if only we could stop those testosterone poisoned men, women and children would be safe. .
A friend of mine tells me that those men who attack other men who stand up to sexist propaganda are men that have been “Philosophically castrated by the ‘victim feminists’ movement”. Jeff fits that group I am sure. (Jeff read that and thought, ya, some white guy said that. No Jeff, it’s a woman who teaches women’s history who used to think the way you did because she got the propaganda and decided to save women… but at some point she studied the background of these claims and found many were false.)
Boys (Jeff, Glenn, myself, and most others) spent the first ten years of life just as boys do, almost always under the control and power of women: moms, cub scouts, Sunday school teachers, our first public school teachers… almost always women. It might be hugs, kisses and mommies little helper that gets us to want to please them, or beatings and humiliation, but one way or another, most women seem to teach boys that their job in life is to protect women and girls, even if it’s at their own expense as men.
I knew from my own family, and the families in the housing projects, as well as the families of prisoners or druggies, that it’s as likely that the one who runs the house is female, as it is male. I learned that it’s as likely that a female attacks the man of the house, as it is that the man attacks the woman of the house. As a self defense teacher, for schools, the military police, and private business, my wife at the time was suprised (she taught with me after I taught her) to see how poorly some men fought and how well some women did. (As a cop I already knew that) Heads up, fair fight, men will almost always win – but really, how many men and women have learned to initiate an attack with suprise and weapons, and beat the crap out of a bigger stronger person, it’s common. You only need rage and a will to win if you time it right. If you want to kill, or crack a skull, because your rage is so great, it doesn’t take strength or courage, just anger.
The DV industry (Work for us, save your sistas, volunteer, give us money, lots of press, stop bad men. Imagine working at a safe house if you detests men – you get power, prestige, and a pay check – lots of strokes from your sisters. Intoxicating. You can represent women, and the safe house, you can go into police stations, schools, and courts of law with groups of women, “What, no college, no expertise in the field of DV, or child abuse, no problem, we can train you in six weeks, just read our handouts, watch “The burning bed” or “sleeping with the enemy” get together with abused women and extrapolate their experiences to all women and men, it’s not rocket science… ) They told us for 25 years that 99 % of DV comes from men and so does the abuse of children. Feminist and feminized men, always competing for that cookie or hug from mom or the good grades from early female teachers, lined up to get the pat on the head from women’s groups, … you are a man, not good in sport, not handsome, not gifted, not rich, but you want to impress women, no problem, if you write well you can attack other men with your little pen, safely at home, and the sisters will love you for it. Go Jeff, you think you are cutting edge but you are a stereotype recognized not just by “men” but by those feminist women who truly want to treat women and men as equals.
The cycle of vilence, victim feminist version: He didn’t get his beer fast enough, got pissed off, slapped the shit out of her, then she said she was leaving. The thought of losing his cook/sex machine/laundry lady scared him because – typical helpless pig – he can’t take care of himself, so he either
A) begged and cried for her to stay and said he would never hit her again, and lied. Leading to subseqent beatings, or,
B) said he would kill her and the kids if she left.
Never ever will feminist women include a simple fact, the precursor to most DV is child abuse and related issues: People who are abused don’t do well in school too often, they end up in bad jobs, or use drugs and booze more so than most. They are stressed out – too much stress and not enough support from family, or therapy and they are often with partners with similar backgrounds. Ya, DV crosses all sociol economic lines, femnist tell us, and so does driving a Caddy or Mercedes, (The rich get the new ones; the poor when they car is falling apart) but most often the DV and child abuse is in the families at the bottom of the food chain.
So, there they are, feminist women and men deciding to create a wheel to show the flow of violents, they create a pictorial of the cycle of violence, … and let’s leave out one little item they all agree without even speaking of it. Let’s leave out adult women beating other women, or elders or siblings, lets leave out MOTHERS, at 150 to 200 lbs, beating their 20 to 50 lb children, by the tens of thousands across America, with boys getting the most abuse, the most injuries, the most likely to be killed. Let’s not put the photo of a big ass women slamming a small boy into a wall, slapping him repeatedly, kicking him, or telling him he is a piece of shit like his dad, like all men, no stories like that. Let’s not pretend that of the 10’s of thousands of boys treated this way, that hundreds might grow up really messed up, find themselves with a partner much like mom, abusive, sullen, castrating, and let’s not pretend that when they set each other off that the years of rage he built up, the countless humilitations he endured, has anything to do at all with the way he was treated by his mother. His abuse lead too often to his inability to hold down a job, or to an increasing desire for drugs. And when his wife, just as his mother did, gets in his face screaming, slapping, – he let’s it out. Let’s not go there because then it looks like the cycle of violence starts with a woman’s face, too often. Let’s just stick with a pretty white woman, or Mexican woman, and a man beating her. Let’s pretend that women don’t do these things. Let’s get senator my-sister-left-marks-on-me Biden to help us get billions to promote even more convincing ads, more movies, more programs, so that the DV industry can thrive, … hey, he gets women’s votes and most men have been “philosophically castrated” and won’t notice… His billions offer job security (helps if you don’t solve DV too, just keep it going, job security) to women who find power, prestige, and a paycheck, for the job of gender profiling. As long as we have dumb asses who read only feminist views of DV and the cycle of violence, the DV industry will continue to generate money while continuing to claim that around every corner is a violent man.
If Donald Trump had two teams, one of bigots who believe only one gender batters – and they asked for billions for their programs, while the other team of men and women who are not sexist, who offer PROOF that DV is a problem for both genders, who suggest that only by stopping both genders in the home can kids grow up in a home without violence so that they will be less likely to be violent, – while that second non sexist team is ignored, not funded, sooner or later after hearing “we need billions more to sell our sexist program that doesn’t seem to be helping much at all” the Donald would say, “you are fired” … and he would let the second team see if they could do better. There is a second team, a team that protects both genders and holds both genders accountible, they are not into gender profiling. Jeff isn’t on that team, Glenn is.
So, ,Jeff, what’s your point? That we only need to stop have the DV and child abuse, and only hold men accountable? How’s thatworking so far? Instead of reading feminist propoganda go work with teens in treatment programs. Notice how many were trashed by their mothers. That would be a start.
SD
November 8th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
there is a japanese saying..
the bent nail attracts the hammer.
their power is in that they coordinate between them and pat each other on the back and have this kind of organizaiotn to them in that if you become a part of their revolutionary movement, you realize that to move up the ladder in this system one has to write as if one has been handed down things from the top of the pyramid.
its a kind of flocking in which a few leads take up some issue, and then the others in the flock turn the same way… ultimately the majority direction of the flockers is set by th few on the top promoting marxism and such… below they feel the xealous purpose to their lives of slaying dragons and tilting windmills.
what your not realizing is that if one side has forgone truth as a tenet of blief, they are no longer limited to formal meritocritous debate… they are on the losing side in that from the get go… so why bother that? so they take every other take to present the appearance of a win, or the abandonment of the subject from their cause, or the person being abandoned by those who pay them in interest of not getting slammed themselves.
zealotry to their religion… end justifies the means… no need for truth… and all the tactics of revolutionaires at their disposal (dissimulation, the big lie over and over, etc), and support from those who offer them something no one else is… a sense of purpose and meaning, and a ready instand set of warm friends. they would fear not having all that this provides… their whole lives are structured around this.
November 8th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Feminists and American women are used to getting a pass for every lie, distortion, and misrepresentation they express. They are used to feminised men coming to their defense and providing support. No matter how much integrity a man may have, all it takes is one mis-step and everything you are and ever were is destroyed. And if you are a political enemy they will lie, distort, and misrepresent what you say to tag you with a mis-step of their own creation. They will bear false witness against you.
This simply shows that they are afraid. They are losing domination over the issues. They are destroying their credibility. They are digging their own graves.
Relax and enjoy the show.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
Denis, I have created a “throwaway” email account in order to communicate outside of the realm of MND.
Could I ask you to please contact me at:
beltfed.weapon@hotmail.com
thanks,
fourthwire