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The Men’s Movement, as it exists and as it could be

2007-12-12
By

 

(This article appears on the front page of the current issue of Transitions)

 
Let’s face it, the men’s/fathers’ “movement” hasn’t moved in over 30 years.  Part of the reason is fierce opposition from entrenched government officials (judges, legislators, etc.) money-grubbing lawyers, feminists, SNAGS (sensitive, new age guys) and assorted other factions.  But a more damaging cause of our failure to achieve justice springs from within.  As Pogo famously said, “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”

 

I submit that intra-movement factionalism, egotistic ambitions and even the naiveté of newcomers are the root causes of our failure.  These suicidal phenomena have impeded progress right from the beginning.  Soon I expect to place an article on the sad history of the men’s/fathers’ movement on the Men’s Defense Assoc. website (See below).

 

This movement has many philosophies and aspects.  There are so many “organizations” I can’t keep track of them or their acronyms.  Some are one-man endeavors consisting of a pajama-clad zealot with a bedroom computer.  Others are nation-wide operations with talented and numerous followers.  They are by no means restricted to the United States.  Many of these groups are narrowly-focused, concentrating on single issues because they may have personal significance to the leader or leaders.  Examples of such single issues are divorce and child custody.

 

To address that example, I believe that father-bashing is but one aspect of a larger anti-male phenomenon, and that misandry (hatred of men) itself should be of greater concern.  I submit that pursuing single issues are unproductive approaches.  Fathers are but a subset of men, and alleviating fathers’ problems alone still leaves us with the underlying misandry, which will bite us again in another area.  It is like cutting off one head of a many-headed hydra.[1]  I submit that, in order to correct injustice or inequality directed at fathers or at men in general, the entire hydra must be attacked.

 

Many reform proposals have been posited over and over for the last 40 years, and the same speeches given.  Each suggestor and spokesman usually operating under the naive assumption his ideas are new and unique.  I believe that our movement has been bogged down for decades by debating minor issues and prematurely proposing various tactics, however excellent they may be.  To make analogy, individuals have been butting heads against this massive wall of misandry for decades, all getting bashed heads out of it.  I suggest that the way to knock the wall down is for us all to back off, form up, and all hit the wall together.  It will come down no other way. 

 

The above requires certain mutual agreements beforehand.  I suggest it is imperative to determine philosophic Ends before addressing Means of achieving those Ends.  As another analogy, builders cannot build a long-lasting house without a foundation; neither can we build an effective movement without constituent groups agreeing on a common philosophy.  We must build the foundation of our movement before building upper storey rooms.  A common philosophy must be broad enough to include all reasonable approaches and narrow enough to exclude approaches that are actually harmful to that philosophy.

 

I have long proposed the following End: “To preserve the traditional nuclear family through restoration of equal dignity and equal (not identical) rights under the law for all male persons across a broad spectrum of life, including divorce, employment, health, crime punishment and image.”  Anything essentially similar to this will do.  Endless arguments over trivialities must be avoided.  Whatever End is eventually chosen, it must precede debating or proposing Means to that End.  Without such an understanding of Ends, we cannot know who we are – and who we aren’t.

 

The anti-male phenomenon and its gestalt are so massive and intricate, ranging from the obvious to the subtle, that neophyte would-be reformers with limited experience, however brilliant they may be or imagine themselves to be, cannot fathom the problems and solutions.  Oscar Wilde, a dead white male, said, “ In America, the young are always ready to give those who are older than themselves the full benefit of their inexperience.”

 

In the interest of broadening the base of the movement and making it more acceptable to the public at large, it may be necessary to include elements primarily concerned with issues of health and personal growth – or introspection, elements not primarily concerned with external discrimination against men and fathers.  That, of course, is a matter for consideration by the mainstream.

 

Our philosophical differences are not as great as personal ones.  Egotism is a huge problem.  Some “leaders” fancy themselves the Messiah, and would sacrifice the movement itself in pursuit of leadership.  Every barnyard rooster is king on his own dung heap.  Taking a clue from Lucifer in Milton’s Paradise Lost, the motivating principle of some seems to be “Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.”  Someone called it “the Fidel Castro syndrome,” meaning there can be only one Revolutionary hero.  Consequently, many reform organizations have been parochial and militantly independent.  They have even been compared to a circular firing squad.  Historically, we have been unable or unwilling to choose leaders of that firing squad, persons who could reform the ranks from a circle into a line, a firing line facing actual enemies.

 

There is enough talent and resources dispersed throughout the men’s/fathers’ movement, internationally, to successfully confront the enemies of justice if those talents and resources can be properly coordinated.  If we ever mature to the point of shedding egotism and agreeing on an End that all our disparate, legitimate elements can accept, we can then marshal these resources and talents.  In order to know what’s going on beyond our little circles, to know where to direct our attentions and activities, we must be fully educated on issues.  Therefore, the resources mentioned above should include worldwide common information forums such as The Liberator or Transitions and a website, perhaps modification of an existing one.

 

The internet has potential to greatly enhance communication, despite the many pips squeaking therein (The numerous tangential subjects addressed on movement blogsites – arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin ? serve only to distract us from concentrating on our goals).

 

Such a combination of forces and resources would be overwhelming, constituting a force equivalent to or greater than that of feminism.  The resultant “Manpower” would create the political clout necessary to achieve the goal all of us so desperately need.

 

Of course, a juggernaught like this is more easily conceived than constructed.  In theory, if the aforesaid internal problems could be overcome, the best and most efficient construct would consist of a unified organization with democratically-elected leaders chosen from the most capable.  Men’s Equality Now (MEN) International, the last credible attempt to so unify the movement, came to naught.  So practically, in view of situational reality, the most we can probably hope for at present is a greater degree of cooperation among major existing groups.

 

I would urge the top leadership of ACFC and NCFC, perhaps even CRC and the Men’s Health Network (there may also be others of significance) to resolve to pursue intra-movement cooperation.  If these several large ? relatively speaking ? coalitions seriously act in concert, and movement writers take up the cause, the smaller groups should be swept along like lifeboats in the wake of the Queen Mary.  Sure there will be the usual nitpickers and ankle-biters, but their influence would be minimized.

 

As probably the longest-serving living activist, I would be willing to serve in any supportive or coordinating, but non-administrative, capacity current leaders might choose.

 

For anyone desirous of further studying the problems and solutions, I recommend the book “Save the Males” (5th revision in the works), a compilation of many years studying these issues.  It is described in detail at www.mensdefense.org.

 

 

Richard F. Doyle, Editor Emeritus, The Liberator

 

 

________________________________

 

[1] A monster in Greek mythology that had nine heads and was killed by Hercules.  When one head was cut off, another grew instantly in its place.

 

 

 

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  • Denis

    1995-2001 nobody heard of you. If it was on the radar it would have been noticed. Men were receptive to the message especially men like me. Three largest protests in the history of the movement? What, you and who else? Prove it. Did it make it to any media publication? Let’s see it. I probably organise equal numbers when I get with friends at the local pub for a pint or two. Anyone can say anything. At least Glenn Sack’s provides verification of what he is doing. F4J is new, post MND launch. I agree with their efforts and applaud them. YOU are not M4J. Nobody, certainly not I, ordains you with the authority to decide who has rights and who does not regarding opinion and criticism. You are only a self proclaimed leader. BFD. Marc Rudov accomplishes. Glenn Sack’s accomplishes. Steven Baskerville accomplishes. Mike La Salle accomplishes. AngryHarry accomplishes. I have far more success in what I do than in what you do. Until I see otherwise you are just a windbag not worthy of serious interest. You are not original either. The true mark of a fraud.

  • David R. Usher

    It seems again that some of the readers do not realize the history of the movement.

    1. The 1995 – 2001 era was one of much protesting. I organized the three largest protests in the history of the movement as an ACFC board member. However, we did realize that protesting doesn’t change anything unless you have people with white hats on pushing proactive policy changes. Others had learned how to protest, so I moved into the policy department. That’s what I am doing now.

    2. F4J is doing more with protesting than anyone else is. But, as is usual in the protesting biz, the organizations run on anger, which often ends up in organizational disputes. We need more organizations protesting — and they need to do it with a professional attitude rather than a way to get their anger out.

    3. Since their is no well-funded major organization in this movement, no single organization can do it all. Since there are no well-funded organizations, there are precious few that pay a salary to anyone. 99% of the people in this movement, including leadership, are unpaid volunteers. This includes myself.

    4. Egotism: There is a big difference between egotism and speaking from a leaderly position of wisdom. Some have accused me of being egotistical when I am speaking from a position of factual authority. Some have accused me of egotism for pointing out the truths of the past, and pointing out that we do not move forward when we repeat the mistakes of the past. There are some very noisy egotists in the movement who insist they know it all. These are the guys that insist on repeating the mistakes of the past. They are also the most frustrated and angry people because they never succeed at anything. Those who want to succeed certainly should consider new ideas, but always wisely consider the voice of experience before marching off into unproductive areas.

    5. The right to complain: Those who are not actively organizing and leading something that actually has a decent number of people following it have no right to criticize anybody in the movement.

  • amfortas

    Two points stand out:

    “Egotism is a huge problem. Some “leaders” fancy themselves the Messiah, and would sacrifice the movement itself in pursuit of leadership. Every barnyard rooster is king on his own dung heap.”

    “the best and most efficient construct would consist of a unified organization with democratically-elected leaders chosen from the most capable.”

    Whilst we are waiting, as if Godot was eventually going to come, we will continue to have this discussion.

    Democratic processes got us into this fine mess, Ollie, and only a very strong, forceful fellow, without a scrap of deference to current political practices will get us out.

    I recall George Rolph, on this very MND (in the old forum) not only expressing a similar sentiment but offering a sound plan of organisation. And the Gonzman took pains to write a comprehensive manifesto which was sound and inclusive. So, where were you? Where were most of us? Maybe we should dust them both off and set to work.

    Then there was my Presidential Interview, here, a few months ago. That outlined a few relevant issues. There were some items not covered in the short time.

    But, tipping my hat to the requested norm, and despite the calumny of the first quote, I still offer my ego-less, Gnomic proportions to the role of benign (to a few of us like-minded chaps) Dictator-Pro-Tem with a promise to kick a huge number of corrupt arses, were I to be elected. Like the Australian Monarch, I also promise to live overseas and unlike she, can be shot after my term has expired. Messiah? Huh!

    Vote #1 Amfortas. Godot I am Gnot.

  • Denis

    There are few leaders in the MRM. There are plenty of self-proclaimed “leaders” but they are not leaders. They don’t lead anything. Not boycotts. Not Press releases. Not MRM caravans on university campuses. Not protests. Not campaigns of any sort. Nothing at all.

    I became aware of a MRM when I came upon http://www.angryharry.com in 2000. I read ideas, opinions, observations, anger that I myself had held. For the first time in my life I came upon another man who saw what I saw. Experienced what I experienced. Observed what I observed. Was angry about what I was angry about. Someone who thought like me. I came upon MND in 2001. I’ve been commenting on and off since.

    I consider there to be only a few “pre-eminent” leaders in the MRM: AngryHarry, Mike LaSalle, and Steven Baskeville. Steven’s book is the best written work the MRM has.

    People lament that the MRM has been slow. They are expecting to see the men’s version of the feminist movement.

    The real progress has been at the individual level. A good deal of that comes from visitors to MND, AngryHarry, and several other sites. More about men’s and father’s rights is being spread on college campuses because of guys like college activist. He’s getting the word out there. Marc Rudov is making an impact. Glenn Sacks is having an impact in the advertising world and has had success fighting against bias on public television programming. Hell, even I have had an impact. I’ve opened the eyes of quite a few guys in my world here in Assachusetts and elsewhere.

    The main point here is that a lot of guys call themselves leaders but have not done anything except complain, or shut out counter opinion, or tell others what they should do and how they should do it. I won’t pin my future to the MRM or what these “leaders” say. The greatest change will come about, and is coming about, because many average guys already know they are getting screwed in America. Most don’t know how badly their rights have been eliminated but they do know that women are immensely favored in this society at their own expense. Every year more and more go looking for places like AngryHarry.com and MND like I did 7 years ago.

    I don’t expect to see an organized men’s movement mainly because those that call themselves leaders have not done anything that can be described as leading. But thank God great men like AngryHarry and Mike La Salle provided a forum for men. And thank God for Steven Baskerville for providing such a good defense for the case of men’s and father’s rights. And thank God also for the average guys who come here, can find a common cause, and spread the word out into their own world.

    All you other “leaders” with (weak) egos are nothing more than entertainment for me when I get really bored.

  • Denis

    There are few leaders in the MRM. There are plenty of self-proclaimed leaders but they haven’t been leading anything. Not boycotts. Not Press announcements. Not MRM caravans on universirt campuses. Not protests. Nothing.

    I came upon the MRM in 2000 when I discovered Angryharry.com. It was a breath of fresh air for me. For the first time in my life I was reading from another man thoughts, ideas, opinions, viewpoints, observations, and anger that I

  • http://www.mensdefense.org Lloyd Selberg

    Why are there no comments directly on Rich’s proposed philosophic End?

    End: “To preserve the traditional nuclear family through restoration of equal dignity and equal (not identical) rights under the law for all male persons across a broad spectrum of life, including divorce, employment, health, crime punishment and image.”

    DOES ANYONE AGREE THAT THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE UNIFYING END GOAL?

    It would be nice to have agreement of those commenting that it is appropriate first step rather than simply acknowledging Rich’s wisdom. What does it take to get Baskerville and Levy to put in their two cents?

  • college activist

    .. I believe the seat of feminist power lies …”rape hysteria”
    And also “domestic violence hysteria”…

    …Alot of Men tend to shy away from these topics…(possibly because 40 years of feminist indoctrination..agit-prop) has neutered them psychologically!!

    …False rape accussations are a serious epidemic that is being covered up by feminist manipulations of police agencies!!
    …Domestic violence facts are being manipulated…by domestic violence arrest quotas!!

    ..These two items are the cornerstone of feminist hysteria control!!
    ..Men need to not back away in these 2 issues..

    America has a dark history with rape hysteria!!

  • David R. Usher

    All,

    You must remember that Rich Doyle has been around these tables longer than anyone. He learned everything the hard way. There was no instruction manual or leadership in the early days. It has taken many years of tough mistakes to get to where we are today.

    While there are some former leaders who deserve some blame, Rich Doyle is not one of them. The guys who deserve blame are not involved in the movement longer, and you wouldn’t know them if I mentioned them. These guys tried all sorts of crazy things that either did not work, wasted a lot of time and distracted movement progress, caused tremendous dissent, ripped off organizations, brought a lot of negative attention to the movement, or all five of these things.

    There is wisdom in Richard’s writings. He has seen tremendous progress, as have I. His suggestions are more directional — and that has always been Richard’s role as long as I have known him. I am more of a front-line, practical, call-it-like-it-is guy (which made some folks real nervous back in the old days). Other leaders today serve other roles. Add us all up and it all fits together.

    But we still have a long way to go baby. Move forward wisely, listen to the voice of history, do not repeat mistakes of the past, calculate the next step wisely, and then execute on it.

    This is a war — which means that mistakes will be made and unexpected battles will be won. Executing a war, and criticizing it from the peanut gallery are two entirely different things. Remember Roosevelt, who was excoriated for screwing up WWII, but many years later historians realized that he pretty much did the right things and had everything in place for Truman to execute on when he died.

    We have the same thing going on in the movement right now. One has to trust leadership, throw ideas into the pot, and trust that the leadership will call the right moves.

  • Richard Doyle

    Some of the responses illustrate why our movement has resembled a train wreck, demonstrating the naïveté of newcomers mentioned therein. They either failed to comprehend, or blithely ignored, the thrust of the article ? which was that we must rise above petty internecine arguments, and begin cooperating, not just locally, but internationally. We must determine and agree on ends before suggesting means to those ends. We need to keep the horse in front of the cart.

    Gus, by misunderstanding those priorities, we damage ourselves more than do feminists or lesbians.

    Eric, whatinhell is FIRM? Your comments illustrate the wisdom of the saying, “You can tell the pioneers by the arrows in their backs.”

    On the other hand, Thomas and College Activist seem to have been around long enough to understand the depth of our problems and how to start on the road to correction.

  • http://BerkshireFatherhoodCoalition.com Rinaldo Del Gallo, III

    I am immensely enjoying reading Richard’s book, “Save the Males.” The biggest problem with the men’s movement is the guy that has a problem in court and never shows up at father’s rights meeting or helps the cause.

    That said, I was shocked at the amount of lack of support from others, the amount of infighting in groups, and the amount of inter-group disrespect. There is one fairly well known father’s rights group that views itself as a “competitor” that will eventually “replace” other father’s rights groups.

    Good Article Roger

    Rinaldo

  • http://www.mensdefense.org Lloyd Selberg

    Gus:

    You have a point about men offending women. Men have become simply afraid to offend women after years of observing the consequences of other men that tried to stand up to the women. Most men in committed relationships believe themselves superior to the poor, abusive and controlling slobs that that find themselves in a divorce or victims of general misandry. Few men have a problem with Montel stating that one in four men sexually abuse their daughters believing that it is always the other guy though knowing it to be false. They only complain when they are the accused.

    The ultimate example is Kansas Attorney General Paul Morrison, who after two decades of prosecuting every female criminal accusation as Kansas Tenth District Attorney and now finds himself accused of federal sexual harassment and numerous crimes involving attempting to discredit his political rival by a former office lover and confidant. While I have little respect for Morrison, I find his situation totally ironic. Kansas Governor, Kathleen Sebelius is calling for Morrison’s removal if the allegations are true. Morrison has admitted to a two year extramarital affair with his accuser.

    Clearly men in relationships with women, male politicians and media have no desire to offend women. Speaking the truth is secondary to offending women to the majority of males. Only the victims complain and as long as popularity and money are more important the scientific fact little will change. In our egalitarian democracy, emotion trumps reason and logic. No one intends to restore our constitutional republic envisioned by our founding fathers.

    Thomas Jefferson believed that in a republic a “natural aristocracy” of virtue and talent should rule. In our egalitarian democracy it is everyone but those of virtue and talent that rule.

  • Thomas

    Richard,

    I must compliment you on your post, superbly written and well presented. Overall you have brought some important points to the table. One of the most significant is egos. Men, more then women are clearly failing in this area and it is their downfall. One of the key reasons women rally together for a cause is they find it easy to relinquish their ‘souls’ to the crowd, easier than men do. Saying that men do not do this so easily is not an insult – in many instances it is why the man can survive in situations where the woman can not – however, it is a huge deficit when full cooperation is required to fight an insidious beast in unified battle as an outgrowth of a ‘grass-roots’ movement.

    I’ll give you two concrete examples.

    A member of our ‘movement’ is involved in periodic mass media debates and has been very successful in getting his message out. I sent him an email suggesting that it might be a good idea for him to use his leverage to perhaps get some exposure for Baskerville’s new book ‘Taken into Custody’ (A clearly important work). His response and I paraphrase was “I’ve worked really hard to get where I am, Baskerville will have to do the same if he needs exposure for his book!” The bottom line here is that it is not much additional work for this activist to mention Baskerville’s book to those who are in a position to do something about it and further more it raises the question as to whether or not this person is really working for the movement. In war, when one platoon member makes it to the top of the hill, it is in his own interest, the interest of the war, and the interest of his fellow soldiers to give them all a hand to advance them forward to his position. The only reason not to do this is EGO. And I fear that is exactly what happened here.

    Here in NY CRC holds a monthly meeting at the YMCA on 14th street. They have been holding these meetings for years and nothing has changed. The same 2 ‘coordinators’ run the meetings and fundamentally run them as if they were elementary school classes. It almost seems like these coordinators get a high off of sitting at the front of the class and telling people when they can speak and when they can not and what they can do and what they can not. I have attended a few of these and tried to engage in productive debate about why things have not been successful. I was quickly hushed and in a most ridiculous manner. I have seen others try to air their concepts or ideas and I have witnessed the same. Basically, the 2 coordinators are fearful of someone else providing solid leadership better than they do…Ego! The group is simply not going anywhere.

    BTW, when I have an opportunity, I periodically purchase a hundred copies of ‘The Liberator’ and strategic place them everywhere (Doctor’s waiting rooms, cafes, diners, train stations, etc.). It is one of our most important periodicals.

    Tom

  • college activist

    ..Richard, I say that the mens/fathers movement is finnally getting through the white noise of the media lace curtain!!

    ..Marc rudov is a weekly event on Fox news..and is cracking feminist miss-information about domestic violence!!

    …The duke lacrosse case has awakened college males to the reality that false rape accussations are easy to make, and hard to defend against!!

    ..Internet activism is circumventing main stream media bias,..and we’re even seeing some main stream media exposure that challenges the women=good…Man=bad..”group think”

    ..I think we’ve made some staggering progress this year, and internet activism is just getting started!!

  • http://www.firmncp.com Eric

    The so called “Men’s Rights Movement” has not proceeded as it should have has to do with the so called “founders of the movement” including you.

    Thomas Lessman (Million Dads March) saw it when you did not give the paper to FIRM (me).

    Milquetoasts will never make it happen. It’s people like David Usher and others that call a spad a spade regardless of political correctness.

    We lost the “war” when the so called “left limped” decided that they can make some money off the rest of us…Albeit…a small amount of money, but money is the goal.

    Solutions? LOL

    The ONLY solution is radical go for the jugular righteousness (from a legal perspective).

    When at war, PC does not equate… PC does not equate… PC does not equate…

    Eric

  • Gus

    My apologies for my typing and spelling.

  • Gus

    An excellent article but with two things left out:1) men will have to startoffending women. I don’t thinl I’m the only man to sense that sense of confidence ine women that has been built up falsely by 40 years of ego massaging by the feminists, the psychology business and the media.
    There is no nice way of doing this but it must be done. For example whenever I say that I am a men’s activist when I am in mixed group of people, the emotional atmosphere changes.
    2) the question of lesbianism must be addressed. The fact that lesbians turned out to be the leadrers of teh femoninst movement has meant that they can be as reckless in what they do and say as they want without having to worry about their future need for a relationship with a man. the case of Gloria Steinem still intrigues mes. She could have lived with the man she married but there is still something in the souls of heterosexual women that longs for men. Not so with lesbians. Heterosexual men and lesbian women are competitors wand we cannot forget that.
    Lastly, we must attack. Many American men have played role of “being “above it all” while eating their guts out inside. I have had enough negative personal experiences with women to know that this is true. it is not enjoyable but American men have to start learning to set limits on women.
    Feminists would laugh at that statement but I’ll bet there were a lot of Al-Quaeda people who laughed when Gen Petraeus talked about the surge.
    Our first wapons are the computer and the telephone.
    When you see or hear an anti-male commercial or comment, do something about it.
    Wal-Mart just got whacked again for having inappropriate panties for little girls. Las summer I called the general offices along with a lot of other people to protest inappropriate anti-male t-shirts for girls.
    Let’s get off our ases and raise some real hell.







Right.

Man up.

Buy the book now on Amazon.com. Or listen to Ronnie tell a story at escaping-from-reality.com.

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