Alec Baldwin is NO Poster Boy for “Father’s Rights”
After a marriage of nine years and then divorcing his wife (actress Kim Basinger) in 2002, actor turned author Alec Baldwin will bestow upon us today (Tuesday September 23) his 240-page memoir titled “A Promise To Ourselves.”
Mind you, I’ve not yet read his book, but from all accounts this is what I’m hearing…
The author attacks the family law industry, calling for a re-examination on how divorce and custody should be decided relative to fathers. He laments about taking entire days to fly across America to attend court appointed fathering sessions with Ireland only for the same to be cancelled once he lands in Los Angeles. Baldwin recounts all of the lies and courtroom arguments in a book that would have garnered more credibility had Dr. Stephen Baskerville (author of Taken Into Custody) written the Foreword.
Baldwin attempts to become the spokesperson for “father’s rights,” impeaching the family law industry for how the same treated him in and out of court. He was court ordered to attend therapy sessions as well as anger management classes. But, what about that short temper of his? Ostensibly, Baldwin did bash the very person he professes the system failed. (Note the infamous 2007 voice mail message to his now 12 year-old daughter, Ireland, in which he berated her by calling her “a thoughtless pig”.) He claims the court did not act in Ireland’s or his best interests (the family court’s only obligation is to order in the CHILD’S best interest), but did he put Ireland’s needs in front of his own? Perhaps, he would have been better served by titling his book “A Promise To Myself” with a desire to clean-up his “act.”
I’m not defending Kim Basinger’s possible alienation of Ireland against Alec, but did he foster the relationship pf the child with her mother? After all, parental alienation cuts both ways. As someone who has gone through and survived two incredibly contentious divorces over the past quarter century (one with children) - I know firsthand, perhaps better than anyone, what wielding a child as ammunition in the midst of a divorce and custody battle does to “the child.”
We, as men, and fathers, are supposed to take it on the chin. Not that we deserve it. Not that it’s right. But if we are going to educate and articulate anecdotal information about parental alienation to a lay public that is going to show a pre-conceived bias toward mother and child, we should do so with academicians watching our back. Without the likes of experts like Stephen Baskerville, Richard Warshak, Michael Lamb, or Kyle Pruett adding empirical points to Baldwin’s memoir it’s possible his book will do more harm than good with respect to “father’s rights.”
Please keep an open mind before promoting “A Promise To Ourselves” as the book that saved all men and fathers from future bad orders in family courts across America. If you think his book is going to change public policy regarding divorce and child custody, please think again! It will increase awareness of the topic of parental alienation, but that may be as far as it goes. As for Baldwin, he should stick to acting as he surely is not the poster boy for father’s rights.
Dean Tong, MSc., is a Forensic Trial Consultant and expert witness who has been retained by parents and attorneys in divorce, custody, dependency, criminal, administrative and appellate cases from 46 states and Canada. | More from Dean Tong
Stumble It!
September 23rd, 2008 at 10:07 am
“Short term marriage of nine years”?
Please rethink your opening sentence.
Note: the opening paragraph has been edited for clarity. – Admin
September 23rd, 2008 at 10:24 am
“I’m not defending Kim Basinger’s possible alienation of Ireland against Alec, but…â€
That is EXACTLY what you are doing.
Kim blatantly ignores 93 court orders and gets away with each and every one.
Kim gives a copy of a voice message very hurtful and damaging to her daughter to the most vile, low-life “journalist†she can find, and gets away with it.
Would you have the same opinion of Alex and the situation if the message was known to nobody besides those two, dad and daughter later talked and both apologized for what they did, and moved on?
…Kim even wins this one, doesn’t she?
September 23rd, 2008 at 11:16 am
I’m not passing judgment on the writer of this article because he is certainly entitled to his own opinion.
I’d say that Baldwin also has a right to his opinion, and doesn’t need the approval of any “father’s rights†advocate, to voice it in any way he chooses.
Whether or not, it will help or harm the situation, only time will tell.
I think the worst thing we can do is emulate feminists by stigmatizing anyone who doesn’t adhere to their “group-think†mentality.
As for anyone being “Poster Boy†for father’s rights … good luck. That poster will end up as someone’s dartboard, no matter who the person is, or what position they take.
Father’s rights are inalienable rights, protected by the Constitution, regardless of your popularity with the public. No one should have to prove their worth as a father, anymore than any woman is expected to prove her worth as a mother.
September 23rd, 2008 at 12:06 pm
I’m no supporter of Baldwin. Bur anger is a human emotion that almost all of us share. Jesus drove the money changers out of the Temple. Jews fear the wrath of God. Let the perfect parent cast the first stone. Baldwin needs to see that the enemy is Biden and NOW, no matter how politically uncorrect that is.
September 23rd, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Dean,
Who are you talking to? Poor Alec Baldwin Still Doesn’t Get It
September 23rd, 2008 at 3:40 pm
for the last ten, twenty or even thirty years there has been virtually NO national coverage of men’s issues. any man who complained about his terrible (and unconstitutional) treatment in the family courts was typically labeled as unbalanced or just bitter. he was ridiculed, shunned, and if he showed any resistance to his removal from his childrens’ lives, was treated as some sort of crazy, and quickly removed from their presence, forever. end of story.
i will take potential help and exposure on these issues from wherever it comes. who can say what will eventually wake people up to how badly men are being treated in the “family” courts, and how marriage is being sold short?
imho anybody who tries to bring these (and other) men’s issues to the forefront, by whatever methods, is a friend. the enemy of my enemy …
September 23rd, 2008 at 6:21 pm
MensIssuesObserver,
Do you know Alec Baldwin personally that you are assured of such details as a private conversation between him and his daughter?
September 23rd, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Alec Baldwin is certainly no poster boy for fatherhood, but neither is Basinger a poster girl for motherhood. That should matter. And whether Baldwin has a clue or not, family law does force parents to battle over children so that lawyers can make money.
Baldwin being a die-hard leftist makes it a lot like the situation they have with Sarah Palin, in that they are forced to attack what they claim to favor in order to preserve the hypocrisy, with more of it.
Tonight I heard Alan Colmes give a coherent overview of parental alienation, speak of bias against fathers in family law, and talk about the frustration of being denied the fundamental right to see your own child.
That said, I won’t get my hopes up that the left is suddenly going to decide fathers matter and should have rights too, because anti-fatherhood is so entrenched in the Democratic party that they’ll dump Baldwin in a heartbeat if he ever gets close to improving the lot of fathers and their children.
For example, Joe Biden is so beholding to the feminazis that I would be shocked to see him come anywhere close to admitting the basic truths Colmes addressed.
September 23rd, 2008 at 9:08 pm
A dyed in the wool ‘leftie’ is hardly to be expected to change his spots overnight. But this Baldwin fellow has a profile and a reach and is singing from the right page in the book. Let him sing.
He will add to the clamour of voices. He will stimulate some people to understand the Horror of the family Court. He will persuade some people that men have a very rough time at the hands of corrupt lawyers and Judges.
One more nail in the coffin is one more nail that I, and you, don’t have to drive in.
Baldwin is not a perfect ally but I do not seek perfection, just shooting in the same direction will do if that’s all he can bring to the battle. Hand him an ammo pack.
September 24th, 2008 at 2:39 am
[...] Here is the story from Men’s Daily News. [...]
September 24th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Dean,
What father who has been to hell and back hasn’t flown off the handle once or twice?
Children can and do actively take part in PA to avoid discipline entirely and stick tightly to the permissive parent who lets them do whatever they want. I have been there and seen it personally. At some point the kids must be held responsible for their own behavior — which is where he was headed — but did’t execute it in a reasonable manner.
While Baldwin’s one error is certainly not to be condoned, it does not erase what was done to him and the child by Basinger.
When one has lots of money, one can spend it as they wish. Baldwin is to be greatly commended for spending his time and money where so many just move on to the next cheap Hollywood relationship.
However, he would do far better if he worked with the best folks in the movement. Baldwin blew the PA issue badly: whether or not it is a psychologically-definable “syndrome” has no bearing on the fact that PA does take place quite frequently. In calling it a syndrome, he set himself up to be buried by Fink, who fully supports the immensely profitable feminist enterprises at the APA.
September 24th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Perfect Alec Baldwin aint. As far as taking it on the chin like a man, well even men get knocked down and hurt.
Liberal,leftie or not any public exposure of the gross injustices fathers and men suffer at the hands of the Government sponsored kidnapping and extortion racket laughingly called( no I aint laughing) the family court, is well waranted and long over due. As far as Alec’s outbust, any decent parent treated the way he has been, will get very angry. It is natural, he does not need anger management, he and the rest of us too, needs anger abatement. That means the gross injustices done to us in the name of “Political Correctness” and in the so called ” best interest of children” needs to stop.
We need to ram the constitution and the Bill of Rights down the throats of all these Evil Bastards.
What everyone needs to understand, is that this God awful evil system is very powerful and very deeply entrenched, it will take all of us putting pressure on it to make a change. Remember an old adage, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and liberal or not, perfect or not Alec Baldwing it the enemy of our enemies.
September 24th, 2008 at 9:39 am
This criticism of a man fighting for something that he believes in and, superficially at least, this board supports, is asinine.
September 24th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I’m very disappointed in this piece. No parent is perfect.
teri
jugsforjustice
September 24th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Dcfather:
“Tonight I heard Alan Colmes give a coherent overview of parental alienation, speak of bias against fathers in family law, and talk about the frustration of being denied the fundamental right to see your own child.”
Perhaps the article I did about Colmes, and the radio interview I did with him for treating Baskerville very rudely caused him to change his mind? Colmes was pretty disgusted with the interview because he couldn’t find a weak spot in my position, and I let him show all of his by letting him walk into his own traps.
See:
FOX News Alan Colmes: Who Needs Air America?
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/12/05/fox-new%E2%80%99s-alan-colmes-who-needs-air-america/
The interview: http://mensnewsdaily.com/audio/alancomes-2007-12-17.mp3
The Debate on Alan Colmes: Who Won?
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/12/17/usher-on-alan-colmes-tonight-10pm-ct-11pm-et/
September 24th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
David R. Usher said,
Dean,
What father who has been to hell and back hasn’t flown off the handle once or twice?
Well, me for instance. No matter how angry I am at someone else, my children aren’t punished for it. And guess what? My children (one and all) choose ME to live with.
Guys, just because Kim Bassinger is a world-class bitch doesn’t excuse Alec one iota. He took his anger out on his child. Not acceptable.
Having said that, read his book if you want. Quote from it (if it’s worth quoting). As amfortas said, at least he’s shooting (these) arrows in the right direction.
September 25th, 2008 at 10:30 am
There isn’t one of you who knows exactly what Alec Baldwin has been through. As such, the ‘holier than thou’ attitude expressed by some folk round here is truly lamentable.
And with regard to the implication (of some) that Alec Baldwin’s contribution to our cause has been insignificant – or detrimental to it – I can only say “absolute rubbish”.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
And with regard to the implication (of some) that Alec Baldwin’s contribution to our cause has been insignificant – or detrimental to it – I can only say “absolute rubbishâ€.
Harry, I normally agree with you, but not this time. Go pick anyone at random and ask them to tell you anything they know about Alec Baldwin and his children. 99% will not know anything except that he called his daughter a pig. But if he gets to be known as part of the fathers rights movement, that couldn’t be anything but detrimental. There’s no way to put lipstick on this particular pig.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I am in agreement with Harry. Alec Baldwin has seen the beast up close. He knows they live. At last he’s been forced to put the glasses on.
September 25th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Mike LS – What a dreadful film! LOL!
Squiggy – I am too tired to slug it out with you – but I can tell you this!
You’re wrong.
There will come a time – hopefully – when the perception of ‘aggressive’ men being linked to the MM will, indeed, be detrimental to it. But at this point in time, we need to get all the attention that we can.
Perhaps it’s like this …
If people were looking at our ‘problems’ and seriously considering them, then the Alec Baldwin outburst might not be very helpful.
But very few people indeed at the moment are bothering to consider men’s rights, and so we need to start turning a few heads in our direction.
And the heads that we are most likely to turn at the moment belong to those men who are rather angry – because of the way that they, themselves, have been treated.
Now, it would be nice if we could turn those heads simply by using polite discussion etc etc.
But this does not work – and it won’t work.
Now, you might argue that many people would be put off the MM by the Alec Baldwin outburst. This is probably true – BUT – those people were mostly not bothering to help us anyway.
But what Alex Baldwin will have done, is reached slightly into the heads of **millions** of men who have experienced, almost experienced, or seen others experience, what he has gone through.
And he has *publicly* pointed out the enemy to them.
Furthermore, he has stuck is head out (probably quite a long way given his line of work) and this will encourage others to do the same.
In addition, so heavily stacked against men is the situation in so many areas at the moment, that almost any increase in the public discussion about men’s rights will add to the growing awareness that something is wrong with the way that men are being treated these days.
Indeed, I even saw an article yesterday by a woman talking about the plight of fathers in connection with a father’s murder/suicide.
And you certainly wouldn’t call a murdering father a poster boy given what you said about Alec Baldwin, would you?
But this father’s murderous actions have actually led a **woman** journalist to think about – and write about – fathers!
And here it is!
http://tinyurl.com/4strpo
One day Squiggy, you will be right. But not at the moment – in my view.
September 26th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Baldwin or any other man will not change anything.
Most men are feminist like usefull idiots in the passed.
IT HAS to be worst before it get better.
Patschef
http://www.masculinisme.blog-cty.com
September 26th, 2008 at 9:33 am
A message from the American Coalition for Fathers and Children:
Dear Reader,
Last Tuesday, Alec Baldwin’s long anticipated book, A Promise To Ourselves: A Journey Through Fatherhood and Divorce, chronicling his experiences with Parental Alienation and the family courts of Los Angeles was released.
On Wednesday Alec gave his first live TV interview about the book on ABC’s daytime program ‘The View.’ In addition to Alec’s story, Jill Egizii related her experiences as a mother battling parental alienation and how she has spent years out of the life of her children. I was also interviewed regarding the need for family law reform and shared parenting.
There was strong opposition from several groups protesting the content and airing of the program. Executives at ABC indicated their email system was overwhelmed by all the negative traffic.
Our thanks to Alec Baldwin for his courage in writing a candid book about his personal experiences with parental alienation and the courts. We also thank ABC and ‘The View’ for having the courage to tackle this controversial subject.
The View’s audience is predominately female. I’m pleased to report there was significant support from both the audience and the hosts for improving the family law system in such a way that children are able to maximize their relationships with both parents, regardless of the parents marital status. ‘The View’ was a positive for Shared Parenting.
Click here to see a couple of photographs from the show.
Sincerely,
Mike McCormick, Exec. Dir.
ACFC
September 27th, 2008 at 7:29 am
Well, Roger, that will certainly shut Squiggy up! LOL!
But let me tell you the problem with the Squiggys of this world. They are too honourable – and they think that most of the people with power are just like them.
But they are not.
I used to feel the same way as Squiggy about how to approach the problems that we face, and it took me a long time to realise that the ‘decent’ approach would have virtually no effect at all.
And, in a nutshell, the reason for this is that only those who are prepared to sacrifice their integrity to reach the top of their various trees actually get to the top of those trees and stay there.
And those possessing much in the way of integrity haven’t got a hope of competing with them.
A boxer who plays by the rules has no hope against a boxer who cheats!
Indeed, I find myself more angered by my discovery of this general ‘fact of life’ than I am by the feminists!
I could not describe to you just how outraged I was/am at discovering just how deceitful, dishonourable and self-serving are so many of those people whom, for most of my life, I had trusted; judges, academics, journalists, senior police officers etc etc.
It is probably too much of an exaggeration to say that, “my whole world collapsed,” when I began to see what was going on, but those words are not far off the mark.
I really do feel outraged and cheated by them.
It’s like discovering that your wife of 20 years never really loved you at all – despite all the apparently sincere pronouncements that she did so – but was just interested in your money.
It hurts!
But, of course, you could always walk away from her having discovered her true feelings; and try to get over it.
But you **cannot** walk away from this permanent deluge of man-hatred. You cannot escape from it. It comes at you from every angle.
And those bastar#s who are pulling the strings, and who are creating and maintaining this deluge of man-hatred in order to serve themselves have got to be taken down and disempowered.
And this is not going to happen by talking politely to them – any more than Saddam Hussein would have given up his power following a few polite words.
Yes, we do need polite words, but we are also in need of highly aggressive publicly visual activists who grab people’s attention and who, quite frankly, intimidate those self-serving shysters who try to get in their way.
Well, that’s my view!
September 27th, 2008 at 7:48 am
Angry Harry:
I very literally understand exactly what you mean. And to your last comment to squiggy, I got tired a long time ago of leaving men on the battlefield because they don’t meet feminist requirements for a proper “poster boy.” Misplaced perfectionism and intolerance of real human character or anything that doesn’t serve the self-serving self is in fact just another psychological problem. According to feminists, all men everywhere are bad. If that’s the case, that is what men are and if feminists have psychological problems living in the real world with real people that’s their problem. Make room for “bad men” because that’s what real humanity is made of.
September 27th, 2008 at 8:27 am
angry harry: There isn’t one of you who knows exactly what Alec Baldwin has been through. As such, the ‘holier than thou’ attitude expressed by some folk round here is truly lamentable.
I totally agree! Absolutely! This stuff cause some men to commit suicide.
teri
September 27th, 2008 at 8:48 am
Teri,
I made the point that regular guys probably don’t connect with Alec Baldwin’s experience in my article on this topic; but you disagree with me there too. I’m a bit confused about what your perspective / position is at this point.
September 27th, 2008 at 11:59 am
I’m saying I think he is helping men. For some people just knowing they aren’t alone can make all the difference. I can’t comment on the contents of the book as I haven’t read it yet.
I was very impressed with his interview on The View. They were very supportive of him. One host even mentioned she was going through the same thing (probably meaning an ugly divorce.) We’re getting through.
I don’t have any problem supporting him, even after he left that voice mail. I helped protest with Fathers4Justice, the California Men’s Centers and CRISPE outside one of his court hearings in Los Angeles. He’s only human, and he feels remorse.
As far as 20/20 getting tons of negative mail, how do we know all the mail was negative? When we write against VAWA, we’re listed as being for it. The opposite could be true in this case.
I’m not a popular gal around election time. People start to remember I’m a liberal. So I’m trying not to say too much about politics, yet.
September 27th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
AngryHarry:
What is the conflict here?
It can be simultaneously acknowledged that
A) “Alec Baldwin is no poster boy for fathers rights”
and
B) issues raised about the so called family court system and parental alienation are valid.
Fathers Rights advocates can put forth statements like, “While not agreeing with Alec Baldwin’s words to his daughter, his case raises valid points which apply to millions of fathers who have never talked like that to their kids in the first place.”
And then go into a variety of points about parental alienation (dropping the word ’syndrome’) and the systemic war on fatherhood.
September 27th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
FathersHaveNaturalRights: “What is the conflict here? It can be simultaneously acknowledged that A) “Alec Baldwin is no poster boy for fathers rights …â€
*THAT* was not the whole claim being made by Squiggy. Squiggy suggested that Alec Baldwin’s activities would be ‘detrimental’ to the cause.
And, worse, he said it in a bold font!
September 27th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Angry Harry:
I appreciate the astute objection to misuse of bold font.
Thank you for that.
But my question was to you alone, directly, not to or about or referencing Squiggy.
I wanted to suggest to you directly that advocates for fathers rights can and should simultaneously disclaim Alec Baldwin’s personal conduct and use the notoriety of his case as a way to spotlight real issues…
…as opposed to either ignoring his conduct or ignoring the opportunity that the attention on him provides.
My use of bold in this post is very selective and I hope placed well. And thank you quite sincerely for the work that you do at A.H.
September 27th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
FathersHaveNaturalRights said, “I wanted to suggest to you directly that advocates for fathers rights can and should simultaneously disclaim Alec Baldwin’s personal conduct and use the notoriety of his case as a way to spotlight real issues.”
Aha. I understand!
No, I do not have any problem with such a position at all.
However, I, myself, would probably ‘justify’ his behaviour on the grounds that men are being pushed to the limits and that, firstly, they have every right to get mad and, secondly, that they are only human beings – as per Roger above; i.e. they are not saints.
(I must state, however, that I do not know much about the Alec Baldwin case – just the headline stuff.)
Perhaps of greater importance regarding my own state of mind on such matters at the moment, however, is that I now believe that men who have been treated badly by those in officaldom have every right to fight back with more than just words.
In other words, I no longer accept the view that just because someone holds a lofty position that this means that they should continually be allowed to get away with treating people badly – just because ‘the law’ says that they can.
It seems to me that we, as men, take legislative blow after blow, and yet we are expected to use only words when it comes to defending ourselves or attacking our enemies.
For example, a judge says to a man that he cannot be with his own children – an absolutely devastating situation for many men – and yet if the man fights back using means other than words (perhaps, like F4J, he sits on the judge’s roof) then he is castigated for it by the public, and prosecuted by the courts.
Well, in my view, the situation is now so bad, for so many men – with many officials *knowingly* and *persistently* inflicting much hurt and much harm on to so many thousands of men – that those officials have lost any moral right to expect their victims to remain ‘passive’.
In fact, I wrote about this sort of thing in two of my most excellent pieces!
http://www.angryharry.com/esWhyViolenceIsOftenJustified.htm
http://www.angryharry.com/es-The-Golden-Rule.htm
And, if you read them, you will see that I no longer believe that words alone will do the trick, and that, as such, ‘aggression’ is very much justified; not only from a moral point of view, but also with regard to forcing some sense of fairness and decency back into the legal system.
For example, it seems to me that most of us would feel quite justified in using some form of ‘aggression’ to prevent A from treating B appallingly (if words alone did not work).
Well, I see no reason why, for example, this should not also apply to government officials who PERSIST in treating people appallingly.
Why should we feel any different just because of who they are?
I’m all for treating such people with respect etc etc – but this respect has got to go both ways!
And when it comes to ‘men’, we are not being treated with respect at all by these people. We are being treated like dirt – on so many fronts.
Anyway – I’m getting wound up now, so I had better stop, or I’ll never get to sleep! LOL!