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	<title>Comments on: Who is Amfortas?</title>
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	<description>Men&#039;s Rights Activism, MRA Politics, Analysis, Commentary and Global News</description>
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		<title>By: Mr. Anthropic</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-71030</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Anthropic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 09:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-71030</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the two-sided coin of the Fisher King/Grail King that interests me personally. It seems like a very complex yet cyclical story. A bit like an exotic knot.   
   
The Fisher King, too injured to tend his Kingdom, fishes the stream as his lands wither around him. He is transfixed and immobile. All he can do is Fish.    
   
Yet he is the King of all he can see.   
   
There are other versions of this story wherein there are two Kings -- one the younger Fisher King who interacts with Percy, and also a Grail King, immobile and on the brink of death. The older King is only sustained by the Grail.   
   
Speaks to me of some kind of internal transition.... perhaps a picture of man transitioning into retirement... or even death. Also, there&#039;s obviously a Christian component, referencing the first disciples as &quot;fishers of men&quot;.    
   
Not to get too esoteric, but I can visualize an almost superorbital/suborbital relationship in the Fisher King/Grail King duo -- wherein one transitions to the other in predictable cycles: From Percy, to Fisher King to Grail King. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#39;s the two-sided coin of the Fisher King/Grail King that interests me personally. It seems like a very complex yet cyclical story. A bit like an exotic knot.   </p>
<p>The Fisher King, too injured to tend his Kingdom, fishes the stream as his lands wither around him. He is transfixed and immobile. All he can do is Fish.    </p>
<p>Yet he is the King of all he can see.   </p>
<p>There are other versions of this story wherein there are two Kings &#8212; one the younger Fisher King who interacts with Percy, and also a Grail King, immobile and on the brink of death. The older King is only sustained by the Grail.   </p>
<p>Speaks to me of some kind of internal transition&#8230;. perhaps a picture of man transitioning into retirement&#8230; or even death. Also, there&#39;s obviously a Christian component, referencing the first disciples as &quot;fishers of men&quot;.    </p>
<p>Not to get too esoteric, but I can visualize an almost superorbital/suborbital relationship in the Fisher King/Grail King duo &#8212; wherein one transitions to the other in predictable cycles: From Percy, to Fisher King to Grail King.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Anthropic</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-71028</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Anthropic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 09:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-71028</guid>
		<description>So to the question, &quot;Who does the Grail serve?&quot;            
            
Here is my literal conception of the essential Human Mandala: Heaven above, Earth below. Men in the middle.            
            
For me, God is synonymous with the Eye of Providence. It Sees us before we see It.            
            
This is not only a metaphysical truth, I also think it is the most optimal psychological configuration for most if not all human beings. Any other configuration would be sub-optimal in my opinion.            
            
Going with my Christographic narrative, I see the Holy Cross as symbolizing the vertical relationship of men (and women) to God (the vertical axis), and in the individual&#039;s relationship with all other things (the horizontal axis).            
            
Thus the Christian Cross is a symbolic representation of the individual human being as a medium -- a middle man -- between God and everything else.            
            
The Grail is a metaphor --- I THINK --- for the collective expression of Intelligent Purpose and Intention.            
           
I would call the Grail an interface or transition point between human ideations and Divine Providence. Christians interpret the Grail directly as the &quot;The Holy Spirit&quot;.       
           
Each individual being would find the Grail located at the Heart of himself -- at the foundation of personality and consciousness.... the Axis of the soul.     
    
Like Colin Wilson, I think this Axis/Mandala is held collectively in some way.       
            
In Christianity, each individual is called to pursue the Higher Good. It&#039;s duty to God over duty to man.  (This is to the effect, &quot;Serve Him first, and God will provide for you after.&quot;)     
            
Who does the Grail serve? Once you know what the Grail is, the answer becomes plain. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So to the question, &quot;Who does the Grail serve?&quot;            </p>
<p>Here is my literal conception of the essential Human Mandala: Heaven above, Earth below. Men in the middle.            </p>
<p>For me, God is synonymous with the Eye of Providence. It Sees us before we see It.            </p>
<p>This is not only a metaphysical truth, I also think it is the most optimal psychological configuration for most if not all human beings. Any other configuration would be sub-optimal in my opinion.            </p>
<p>Going with my Christographic narrative, I see the Holy Cross as symbolizing the vertical relationship of men (and women) to God (the vertical axis), and in the individual&#39;s relationship with all other things (the horizontal axis).            </p>
<p>Thus the Christian Cross is a symbolic representation of the individual human being as a medium &#8212; a middle man &#8212; between God and everything else.            </p>
<p>The Grail is a metaphor &#8212; I THINK &#8212; for the collective expression of Intelligent Purpose and Intention.            </p>
<p>I would call the Grail an interface or transition point between human ideations and Divine Providence. Christians interpret the Grail directly as the &quot;The Holy Spirit&quot;.       </p>
<p>Each individual being would find the Grail located at the Heart of himself &#8212; at the foundation of personality and consciousness&#8230;. the Axis of the soul.     </p>
<p>Like Colin Wilson, I think this Axis/Mandala is held collectively in some way.       </p>
<p>In Christianity, each individual is called to pursue the Higher Good. It&#39;s duty to God over duty to man.  (This is to the effect, &quot;Serve Him first, and God will provide for you after.&quot;)     </p>
<p>Who does the Grail serve? Once you know what the Grail is, the answer becomes plain.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Anthropic</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-71021</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Anthropic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 06:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-71021</guid>
		<description>Well, tell you what, Dr. Amfortas -- I like the Fisher King. That&#039;s the mask for me.    
  
And check it out: &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mask_%28film%29&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Mask with Jim Carrey&lt;/a&gt;. Ben Stein is in this one, too. He&#039;s hysterical....lol... I remember the scene in which Jim Carrey visits his psychologist, played by Stein. Carrey explains that, whenever he dons the Mask, his physical body becomes somehow inhabited by Loki. Ben Stein pulls out a nuanced deadpan, and drolly informs his patient, &quot;You&#039;re suffering from a mild delusion.&quot; ROTFLOL.    
    
To all the knights out there who may read this, buy a DVD copy of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&amp;keywords=Jim%20Carrey%20the%20Mask&amp;tag=mndnet-20&amp;index=dvd&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Mask&lt;/a&gt; AND support this site by clicking &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&amp;keywords=Jim%20Carrey%20the%20Mask&amp;tag=mndnet-20&amp;index=dvd&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;THIS LINK&lt;/a&gt;.    
    
VHS available here: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/6303347657?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=mndnet-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=6303347657&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Mask [VHS]&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, tell you what, Dr. Amfortas &#8212; I like the Fisher King. That&#39;s the mask for me.    </p>
<p>And check it out: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mask_%28film%29" rel="nofollow">The Mask with Jim Carrey</a>. Ben Stein is in this one, too. He&#39;s hysterical&#8230;.lol&#8230; I remember the scene in which Jim Carrey visits his psychologist, played by Stein. Carrey explains that, whenever he dons the Mask, his physical body becomes somehow inhabited by Loki. Ben Stein pulls out a nuanced deadpan, and drolly informs his patient, &quot;You&#39;re suffering from a mild delusion.&quot; ROTFLOL.    </p>
<p>To all the knights out there who may read this, buy a DVD copy of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&amp;keywords=Jim%20Carrey%20the%20Mask&amp;tag=mndnet-20&amp;index=dvd&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325" rel="nofollow">The Mask</a> AND support this site by clicking <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&amp;keywords=Jim%20Carrey%20the%20Mask&amp;tag=mndnet-20&amp;index=dvd&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325" rel="nofollow">THIS LINK</a>.    </p>
<p>VHS available here: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/6303347657?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=mndnet-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=6303347657" rel="nofollow">The Mask [VHS]</a></p>
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		<title>By: amfortas</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-71032</link>
		<dc:creator>amfortas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 02:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-71032</guid>
		<description>There have been quite a number of scholarly tomes written about the meaning of the story. Wolfram was a Christian but not quite the sort one would imagine for his day . I think even he was &#039;lead&#039; by some intuitive ideas of what the Grail is and indeed only describes the stone it stands on. Personally, I see the Grail as being the inner  - divine - being of man - of an individual man. And more. It is his core or essence of him. A young chap might catch a glimpse of himself when young and it is almost immediately swamped (snatched from him)  by his own ignorance and selfishness.  
 
But who does it serve? The Christian perspective is expressed perfectly in the child&#039;s Catechism. 
 
Others might see things differently, of course. I have tried to interpret the theme of the story in terms familiar to Men&#039;s Rights Advocates. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There have been quite a number of scholarly tomes written about the meaning of the story. Wolfram was a Christian but not quite the sort one would imagine for his day . I think even he was &#039;lead&#039; by some intuitive ideas of what the Grail is and indeed only describes the stone it stands on. Personally, I see the Grail as being the inner  &#8211; divine &#8211; being of man &#8211; of an individual man. And more. It is his core or essence of him. A young chap might catch a glimpse of himself when young and it is almost immediately swamped (snatched from him)  by his own ignorance and selfishness.  </p>
<p>But who does it serve? The Christian perspective is expressed perfectly in the child&#039;s Catechism. </p>
<p>Others might see things differently, of course. I have tried to interpret the theme of the story in terms familiar to Men&#039;s Rights Advocates.</p>
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		<title>By: amfortas</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-71014</link>
		<dc:creator>amfortas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 15:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-71014</guid>
		<description>One could also look at Percy and Amfortas as not boy to man but sonhood to fatherhood. I take a fairly ideosyncratic approach to interpreting meanings in the story, as do so many others far more scholarly than I. Carl Jung himself saw Amfortas in his father and even refered to him as Amfortas.  
 
There is also the mentor role in there. So many young men, clad in armour today need an Uncle. And in the Greek view of &#039;woman&#039; Psyche and Hera were often seen as neice and Aunt. 
 
So, Percy could be to Amfortas as Psyche was to Hera. 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One could also look at Percy and Amfortas as not boy to man but sonhood to fatherhood. I take a fairly ideosyncratic approach to interpreting meanings in the story, as do so many others far more scholarly than I. Carl Jung himself saw Amfortas in his father and even refered to him as Amfortas.  </p>
<p>There is also the mentor role in there. So many young men, clad in armour today need an Uncle. And in the Greek view of &#039;woman&#039; Psyche and Hera were often seen as neice and Aunt. </p>
<p>So, Percy could be to Amfortas as Psyche was to Hera.</p>
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		<title>By: amfortas</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-71013</link>
		<dc:creator>amfortas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 14:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-71013</guid>
		<description>&quot;......the male transition from boyhood to manhood...from Percy to Amfortas.&quot; 
 
A stage is missed here. A chap doesn&#039;t get to be Amfortas until he is old and even then.... He moves from boyhood into manhood - a manhood which is marked predominantly by the rules around him and the armour he wears. He can only become a &#039;Keeper&#039; by accepting that he can never possess the Grail but simply Guard it. He cannot even take benefit from it for himself. But the Knight - ah - the young man, the developing man in his twenties and thirties and forties, aye even in his fifties, can bring the essence of the Grail to the World. It can heal the World.  He has to know Who the Grail Serves. THAT he can know early on and do such wonderous things with - that is his prize, not the Grail itself. It isn&#039;t for him.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;&#8230;&#8230;the male transition from boyhood to manhood&#8230;from Percy to Amfortas.&quot; </p>
<p>A stage is missed here. A chap doesn&#039;t get to be Amfortas until he is old and even then&#8230;. He moves from boyhood into manhood &#8211; a manhood which is marked predominantly by the rules around him and the armour he wears. He can only become a &#039;Keeper&#039; by accepting that he can never possess the Grail but simply Guard it. He cannot even take benefit from it for himself. But the Knight &#8211; ah &#8211; the young man, the developing man in his twenties and thirties and forties, aye even in his fifties, can bring the essence of the Grail to the World. It can heal the World.  He has to know Who the Grail Serves. THAT he can know early on and do such wonderous things with &#8211; that is his prize, not the Grail itself. It isn&#039;t for him.</p>
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		<title>By: amfortas</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-71012</link>
		<dc:creator>amfortas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 14:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-71012</guid>
		<description>Complex, we all are, but whether that part of me that is Amfortas is a sinner or fertility god, pagan or symbol-in-reality, is a matter for others to see. A man has difficulty in seeing inside himself - hense the journies he has to take. It is easier for me to see the journey of most men in Percy, and myself as I look backward. It is easy for me to see the wisdom and moral &#039;standing&#039; I could have daily as Amfortas were it not belonging to Someone far greater and it being simply paraded before me en route elsewhere. The woundedness of men is all too easy to see. 
 
But the point of my podcasts was to outline that Younger Man&#039;s journey as a warning - perhaps - and as a rough outline of what lies ahead for those that I used to be. The mass of wannabee Knights but ever farm-boys in armour. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Complex, we all are, but whether that part of me that is Amfortas is a sinner or fertility god, pagan or symbol-in-reality, is a matter for others to see. A man has difficulty in seeing inside himself &#8211; hense the journies he has to take. It is easier for me to see the journey of most men in Percy, and myself as I look backward. It is easy for me to see the wisdom and moral &#039;standing&#039; I could have daily as Amfortas were it not belonging to Someone far greater and it being simply paraded before me en route elsewhere. The woundedness of men is all too easy to see. </p>
<p>But the point of my podcasts was to outline that Younger Man&#039;s journey as a warning &#8211; perhaps &#8211; and as a rough outline of what lies ahead for those that I used to be. The mass of wannabee Knights but ever farm-boys in armour.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Anthropic</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-70988</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Anthropic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 13:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-70988</guid>
		<description>So... the female narrative transition from Psyche to Hera is analogous to the male transition from boyhood to manhood...from Percy to Amfortas.... or from the Fisher King to the Grail King.  
  
But I am struck by the respective assumptions of these myths and masks. Hera appears to be all about social-control.  
  
This myth is repeated in a different way in the story of Percival -- where the symbol for social control is divided between the lost father (the dream of social order), and the sorrowful and over-protective mother. Thus in the absence of Gamhuret (Percy&#039;s father -- the first older-male transitional figure), Herzloyde&#039;s unchecked internal motivation leads her to thwart her son&#039;s natural developmental inclinations, thereby breaking the cycle upon which social order is dependent.  
  
But isn&#039;t the concept of self-control at the very heart of Classical Liberalism? In what way, then, are &quot;Liberals&quot; liberal?  
  
BTW -- there is an excellent &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20080117.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BBC audio discussion on the story of The Fisher King here&lt;/a&gt;:  
  
Here&#039;s the blurb:  
  
 &lt;blockquote&gt;THE FISHER KING  
In the world of medieval romance there are many weird and wonderful creatures &#8211; there are golden dragons and green knights, sinister enchantresses and tragic kings, strange magicians and spears that bleed and talk. And yet, in all this panoply of wonder, few figures are more mysterious than the Fisher King. Entrusted as the keeper of the Holy Grail itself, he resides in a castle made of magic where he lies blighted by a wound that does not heal.  
  
He is a complex and poetic figure and has meant many things to many people. From the age of chivalry to that of psychoanalysis and beyond, he has been Christian and pagan, tragic and enduring, a sinner, a fertility god and a symbol of sexual fear and desire.  
  
Contributors  
  
Carolyne Larrington, Tutor in Medieval English at St John&#8217;s College, Oxford  
  
Stephen Knight, Distinguished Research Professor in English Literature at Cardiff University  
  
Juliette Wood, Associate Lecturer in the Department of Welsh, Cardiff University and Director of the Folklore Society &lt;/blockquote&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230; the female narrative transition from Psyche to Hera is analogous to the male transition from boyhood to manhood&#8230;from Percy to Amfortas&#8230;. or from the Fisher King to the Grail King.  </p>
<p>But I am struck by the respective assumptions of these myths and masks. Hera appears to be all about social-control.  </p>
<p>This myth is repeated in a different way in the story of Percival &#8212; where the symbol for social control is divided between the lost father (the dream of social order), and the sorrowful and over-protective mother. Thus in the absence of Gamhuret (Percy&#39;s father &#8212; the first older-male transitional figure), Herzloyde&#39;s unchecked internal motivation leads her to thwart her son&#39;s natural developmental inclinations, thereby breaking the cycle upon which social order is dependent.  </p>
<p>But isn&#39;t the concept of self-control at the very heart of Classical Liberalism? In what way, then, are &quot;Liberals&quot; liberal?  </p>
<p>BTW &#8212; there is an excellent <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20080117.shtml" rel="nofollow">BBC audio discussion on the story of The Fisher King here</a>:  </p>
<p>Here&#39;s the blurb:  </p>
<blockquote><p>THE FISHER KING<br />
In the world of medieval romance there are many weird and wonderful creatures &ndash; there are golden dragons and green knights, sinister enchantresses and tragic kings, strange magicians and spears that bleed and talk. And yet, in all this panoply of wonder, few figures are more mysterious than the Fisher King. Entrusted as the keeper of the Holy Grail itself, he resides in a castle made of magic where he lies blighted by a wound that does not heal.  </p>
<p>He is a complex and poetic figure and has meant many things to many people. From the age of chivalry to that of psychoanalysis and beyond, he has been Christian and pagan, tragic and enduring, a sinner, a fertility god and a symbol of sexual fear and desire.  </p>
<p>Contributors  </p>
<p>Carolyne Larrington, Tutor in Medieval English at St John&rsquo;s College, Oxford  </p>
<p>Stephen Knight, Distinguished Research Professor in English Literature at Cardiff University  </p>
<p>Juliette Wood, Associate Lecturer in the Department of Welsh, Cardiff University and Director of the Folklore Society </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Mr. Anthropic</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-70987</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Anthropic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 12:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-70987</guid>
		<description>So... the female narrative transition from Psyche to Hera is analogous to the male transition from boyhood to manhood...from Percy to Amfortas.... or from the Fisher King to the Grail King.   
      
But I am struck by the respective assumptions of these myths and masks. Hera appears to be all about social-control.       
      
This myth is repeated in a different way in the story of Percival -- where the symbol for social control is divided between the lost father (the dream of social order), and the sorrowful and over-protective mother. Thus Herzloyde&#039;s selfish, internal motivations leads her to thwart her son&#039;s developmental inclinations.   
      
But isn&#039;t the concept of self-control at the very heart of Classical Liberalism? In what way, then, are are &quot;Liberals&quot; liberal?      
     
BTW -- there is an excellent &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20080117.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BBC audio discussion on the story of The Fisher King here&lt;/a&gt;:  
 
Here&#039;s the blurb: &lt;blockquote&gt;THE FISHER KING  
  
Find out more about this subject by using our research page  
  
In the world of medieval romance there are many weird and wonderful creatures &#8211; there are golden dragons and green knights, sinister enchantresses and tragic kings, strange magicians and spears that bleed and talk. And yet, in all this panoply of wonder, few figures are more mysterious than the Fisher King. Entrusted as the keeper of the Holy Grail itself, he resides in a castle made of magic where he lies blighted by a wound that does not heal.  
  
He is a complex and poetic figure and has meant many things to many people. From the age of chivalry to that of psychoanalysis and beyond, he has been Christian and pagan, tragic and enduring, a sinner, a fertility god and a symbol of sexual fear and desire.  
  
Contributors  
  
Carolyne Larrington, Tutor in Medieval English at St John&#8217;s College, Oxford  
  
Stephen Knight, Distinguished Research Professor in English Literature at Cardiff University  
  
Juliette Wood, Associate Lecturer in the Department of Welsh, Cardiff University and Director of the Folklore Society &lt;/blockquote&gt;  
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230; the female narrative transition from Psyche to Hera is analogous to the male transition from boyhood to manhood&#8230;from Percy to Amfortas&#8230;. or from the Fisher King to the Grail King.   </p>
<p>But I am struck by the respective assumptions of these myths and masks. Hera appears to be all about social-control.       </p>
<p>This myth is repeated in a different way in the story of Percival &#8212; where the symbol for social control is divided between the lost father (the dream of social order), and the sorrowful and over-protective mother. Thus Herzloyde&#39;s selfish, internal motivations leads her to thwart her son&#39;s developmental inclinations.   </p>
<p>But isn&#39;t the concept of self-control at the very heart of Classical Liberalism? In what way, then, are are &quot;Liberals&quot; liberal?      </p>
<p>BTW &#8212; there is an excellent <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20080117.shtml" rel="nofollow">BBC audio discussion on the story of The Fisher King here</a>:  </p>
<p>Here&#39;s the blurb:<br />
<blockquote>THE FISHER KING  </p>
<p>Find out more about this subject by using our research page  </p>
<p>In the world of medieval romance there are many weird and wonderful creatures &ndash; there are golden dragons and green knights, sinister enchantresses and tragic kings, strange magicians and spears that bleed and talk. And yet, in all this panoply of wonder, few figures are more mysterious than the Fisher King. Entrusted as the keeper of the Holy Grail itself, he resides in a castle made of magic where he lies blighted by a wound that does not heal.  </p>
<p>He is a complex and poetic figure and has meant many things to many people. From the age of chivalry to that of psychoanalysis and beyond, he has been Christian and pagan, tragic and enduring, a sinner, a fertility god and a symbol of sexual fear and desire.  </p>
<p>Contributors  </p>
<p>Carolyne Larrington, Tutor in Medieval English at St John&rsquo;s College, Oxford  </p>
<p>Stephen Knight, Distinguished Research Professor in English Literature at Cardiff University  </p>
<p>Juliette Wood, Associate Lecturer in the Department of Welsh, Cardiff University and Director of the Folklore Society </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Mr. Anthropic</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-70986</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Anthropic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 02:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-70986</guid>
		<description>So... the narrative transition from Psyche to Hera is analogous to the male transition from boyhood to manhood...from Percy to Amfortas? 
  
But I am struck by the respective assumptions of these myths and masks. Hera appears to be all about social-control.   
  
This myth is repeated in a different way in the story of Percival -- where the symbol for social control is divided between the lost father (the dream of social order), and the sorrowful and over-protective mother whose internal motivations lead her to undercut the natural development of male self-control.  
  
But isn&#039;t the concept of self-control at the very heart of Classical Liberalism?   
  
In what way, then, are are &quot;Liberals&quot; liberal? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230; the narrative transition from Psyche to Hera is analogous to the male transition from boyhood to manhood&#8230;from Percy to Amfortas? </p>
<p>But I am struck by the respective assumptions of these myths and masks. Hera appears to be all about social-control.   </p>
<p>This myth is repeated in a different way in the story of Percival &#8212; where the symbol for social control is divided between the lost father (the dream of social order), and the sorrowful and over-protective mother whose internal motivations lead her to undercut the natural development of male self-control.  </p>
<p>But isn&#039;t the concept of self-control at the very heart of Classical Liberalism?   </p>
<p>In what way, then, are are &quot;Liberals&quot; liberal?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Anthropic</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-70985</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Anthropic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 02:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-70985</guid>
		<description>So... the transition from Psyche to Hera is analogous to the male transition from boyhood to manhood.... 
 
But I am struck by the respective assumptions of these myths and masks. Hera appears to be all about social-control.  
 
This myth is repeated in a different way in the story of Percival -- where the symbol for social control is divided between the lost father (the dream of social order), and the sorrowful and over-protective mother whose internal motivations lead her to undercut the natural development of male self-control. 
 
But isn&#039;t the concept of self-control at the very heart of Classical Liberalism?  
 
In what way, then, are are &quot;Liberals&quot; liberal? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230; the transition from Psyche to Hera is analogous to the male transition from boyhood to manhood&#8230;. </p>
<p>But I am struck by the respective assumptions of these myths and masks. Hera appears to be all about social-control.  </p>
<p>This myth is repeated in a different way in the story of Percival &#8212; where the symbol for social control is divided between the lost father (the dream of social order), and the sorrowful and over-protective mother whose internal motivations lead her to undercut the natural development of male self-control. </p>
<p>But isn&#039;t the concept of self-control at the very heart of Classical Liberalism?  </p>
<p>In what way, then, are are &quot;Liberals&quot; liberal?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Anthropic</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-70971</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Anthropic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 13:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-70971</guid>
		<description>Percy is the offspring of Sorrow (Hertzeloyde) and Government (Gamhuret).           
           
Amfortas mentioned Hera....         
          
&quot;Hera may bear in her hand the pomegranate, emblem of fertile blood and death and &#8230; for the narcotic (of) opium.&quot; &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hera&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wiki entry on Hera&lt;/a&gt;   
          
Hera = female fertility / wine  -- two things that drive men &lt;em&gt;out of control.&lt;/em&gt;, and that represents orgiastic release (eg., as in &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dionysus&lt;/a&gt;.).        
          
Hera symbolizes not just the maternal reproductive instinct, but also Legal Contracts and social order. This is social control, which intersects with Percival&#039;s personal discovery of self-control.         
         
But Hera does not have much in the way of self control... so she pines for Laws to exert control over others. Thus -- Maternalism.        
          
Hera has all the trappings of Government: She is a controlling Spirit who cannot control herself.  She is vain and temperamental. She is pomp and ceremony. She wants others to obey her rules for their own good. Her hunger for control is... out of control.           
           
Father is gone. Mother is left. Social control has triumphed over self-control.            
           
This is the beehive. This is socialism. Drink the wine.           
           
Welcome all, and bow. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Percy is the offspring of Sorrow (Hertzeloyde) and Government (Gamhuret).           </p>
<p>Amfortas mentioned Hera&#8230;.         </p>
<p>&quot;Hera may bear in her hand the pomegranate, emblem of fertile blood and death and &hellip; for the narcotic (of) opium.&quot; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hera" rel="nofollow">Wiki entry on Hera</a>   </p>
<p>Hera = female fertility / wine  &#8212; two things that drive men <em>out of control.</em>, and that represents orgiastic release (eg., as in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus" rel="nofollow">Dionysus</a>.).        </p>
<p>Hera symbolizes not just the maternal reproductive instinct, but also Legal Contracts and social order. This is social control, which intersects with Percival&#39;s personal discovery of self-control.         </p>
<p>But Hera does not have much in the way of self control&#8230; so she pines for Laws to exert control over others. Thus &#8212; Maternalism.        </p>
<p>Hera has all the trappings of Government: She is a controlling Spirit who cannot control herself.  She is vain and temperamental. She is pomp and ceremony. She wants others to obey her rules for their own good. Her hunger for control is&#8230; out of control.           </p>
<p>Father is gone. Mother is left. Social control has triumphed over self-control.            </p>
<p>This is the beehive. This is socialism. Drink the wine.           </p>
<p>Welcome all, and bow.</p>
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		<title>By: amfortas</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-70976</link>
		<dc:creator>amfortas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 10:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-70976</guid>
		<description>Fortunately Hera was back in the days of the Old Greeks. They had a mix of &#039;societies&#039; including the predominantly Matriarchal one of Sparta - which is all too often seen as &#039;masculine&#039;.  
 
But Hera was a highly symbolic personage for women rather than Greek society. She was the older of the two female &#039;models&#039; - The Mother and the Girl.  
 
As I said, Hera and Psyche were well known, and phased one into the other, but with one as &#039;teacher&#039; 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fortunately Hera was back in the days of the Old Greeks. They had a mix of &#039;societies&#039; including the predominantly Matriarchal one of Sparta &#8211; which is all too often seen as &#039;masculine&#039;.  </p>
<p>But Hera was a highly symbolic personage for women rather than Greek society. She was the older of the two female &#039;models&#039; &#8211; The Mother and the Girl.  </p>
<p>As I said, Hera and Psyche were well known, and phased one into the other, but with one as &#039;teacher&#039;</p>
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		<title>By: amfortas</title>
		<link>http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/05/12/who-is-amfortas/comment-page-1/#comment-70975</link>
		<dc:creator>amfortas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 10:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mensnewsdaily.com/?p=85631#comment-70975</guid>
		<description>I am honoured by these transcripts being published and hope they generate much thought by people </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am honoured by these transcripts being published and hope they generate much thought by people</p>
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