In what has become a more or less common turn of events, the female Hofstra University student that accused five men, including one classmate, of gang raping her in a school dormitory bathroom has recanted the charges. That’s legal and media speak for admitting she cheapened herself by taking on five men willingly on a men’s room floor and lied about it later out of what little capacity for shame she had.
I suppose, I say yawning, that this is the time for outrage. And there are plenty of reasons for it, starting with Nassau Police Detective John Allen, commander of the special victims squad. Allen announced in a press conference that the men had tricked the 18 year old woman into coming to a dorm by taking her cell phone.
“Clearly,” he said, “I think the cell phone was taken to lure her away from the crowd to do her harm.”
And of course, in the Nassau Police Department as in so many others, “Clearly” means she said so.
And next we have Nassau County District Attorney Kathleen Rice. After releasing four of the men from jail (the fifth was still being hunted down), Rice issued a statement that a criminal investigation would be conducted but that no decision had been made as to whether to file charges against the woman.
Rice already has more evidence of an actual crime committed by the woman than she did against the four men that were incarcerated. Which is to say that she didn’t have any evidence against them at all save a single allegation. And she is waiting now for what, the fair application of justice? Due process? Her next hair appointment?
I guess we can also save some indignation for when, over the next few days, stories of the woman’s mental health issues and other reasons emerge to soften her treatment. This will happen, regardless of the DA’s decision on whether to prosecute, and it will be used to lessen the consequences, if any, for what the woman did.
After all, we shouldn’t imperil the future of a woman simply for committing a possible felony that lead to the false imprisonment and public humiliation of four innocent men.
And I suppose that there should be some ire directed at the media, who continue to print the names of the men but not their disgraced accuser, hiding the name of the only real criminal in the story. Her name will come out now, but only after the search engines bring back a few thousand returns on the names of the men.
There should be too, I assume, and yawning again, a fair amount of finger pointing at feminists who pushed for and got these insane rape shield laws, resulting in so many travesties of justice, so many lives ruined.
Truth tell, though, when I read what one of the accused had to say about the matter, I’d rather focus all my anger at him. In fact, I want to put him back in jail myself and throw away the key.
Upon being released, accused Stalin Felipe had this to say:
“Basically, I have no hard feelings toward her. I don’t know why she did it. I don’t know her so I don’t want to say anything bad about her.”
Bottom line is, if this guy wants to give her a pass, why should anyone else give a damn?
And the truth is that this guy is not unlike most men. Even with their neck planted squarely on the guillotine, if a woman’s hand is on the lever, the last words of men will likely as not be, “I’m sorry if I get your blade bloody.”
Men are, it seems, the greatest masochists of all time. Whatever you do, don’t get between a man and an opportunity to excuse a woman for whatever harm she causes to others.
You’ll be road kill in a nanosecond.
And that is precisely what men are becoming. They are like dumb animals that wander onto the super highway of gender politics, unable to grasp the concept of speed and Mac Trucks. After getting hit, the ones who don’t get squashed flat simply limp off to the shoulder, covering their pain with a smile and saying, “Please, ma’am, may I have another?”
Is this blaming the victim? You better believe it. And it is blame they have coming. Truckloads of it.
I am not going to bother asking. ‘where is the outrage?’ It’s like asking ‘where is the free health care?’ There isn’t much point in pursuing fantasies. I’ll leave that to police departments and DA’s. They have become experts at it.
I know that in the minds of many I am supposed to point to the nobility of men’s desires to protect women at all costs. That is why men continue to remain silent while they are destroyed before each other’s eyes. Yeah, that’s the ticket, it’s the nobility.
Normally, I’d expect feminists to find a way to mistake cowardice for nobility. Such delusions seem more their forte. It’s disgusting to see so many men do it. But such behavior has become part of the modern masculine repertoire. And frankly I am growing weary of men, myself included, protesting modern affairs as long as we are leaving jails and courtrooms like grinning weasels, wearing our disgraces like badges of honor.
Where are the Duke three? Why are they not all over this story? Why aren’t they doing anything to help prevent what happened to them from happening to others?
I’ll tell you where they are. They are busy being men. Which is to say that they are doing nothing at best, doing more damage at worst. It is the same place the Hofstra five will be by early next week. And with that they will join the legions of men wrongfully accused, falsely imprisoned, publicly humiliated and shamefully silent.
The only way that this is going to change is if some shepherds emerge to protect a flock that is incapable of, and unwilling to, protecting itself.
It is going to be a hard job. Not only do the sheep need to be protected from the wolves now stalking them, they have the unfortunate tendency to collude with the wolves themselves, to seek their approval and attention, and to extend to them blanket exonerations, even as the wolves size them up and make dinner plans.
The same sheep also have the insane habit of pushing each other into the line of fire whenever they get the chance. They then stare at the carnage of their dead brothers in front of them, in the words of Don Henley, “uncomprehendingly, like cows at a passing train.”
It reveals a bitter truth that advocating for men is trying to extend the lifespan of lemmings.
And so it isn’t just standing guard for the shepherds, it’s remaining on suicide watch the whole time. And it explains why so many efforts for men to organize and make things happen result in exactly squat. It’s easier to heard snakes with a stick.
Better that a few shepherds go wolf hunting on their own than to take the sheep with them, keeping in mind the whole time that the sheep themselves could be sneaking up behind them.
In what has become a more or less common turn of events, the female Hofstra University student that accused five men, including one classmate, of gang raping her in a school dormitory bathroom has recanted the charges. That’s legal and media speak for admitting she cheapened herself by taking on five men willingly on a men’s room floor and lied about it later out of what little capacity for shame she had.
I suppose, I say yawning, that this is the time for outrage. And there are plenty of reasons for it, starting with Nassau Police Detective John Allen, commander of the special victims squad. Allen announced in a press conference that the men had tricked the 18 year old woman into coming to a dorm by taking her cell phone.
“Clearly,” he said, “I think the cell phone was taken to lure her away from the crowd to do her harm.”
And of course, in the Nassau Police Department as in so many others, “Clearly” means she said so.
And next we have Nassau County District Attorney Kathleen Rice. After releasing four of the men from jail (the fifth was still being hunted down), Rice issued a statement that a criminal investigation would be conducted but that no decision had been made as to whether to file charges against the woman.
Rice already has more evidence of an actual crime committed by the woman than she did against the four men that were incarcerated. Which is to say that she didn’t have any evidence against them at all save a single allegation. And she is waiting now for what, the fair application of justice? Due process? Her next hair appointment?
I guess we can also save some indignation for when, over the next few days, stories of the woman’s mental health issues and other reasons emerge to soften her treatment. This will happen, regardless of the DA’s decision on whether to prosecute, and it will be used to lessen the consequences, if any, for what the woman did.
After all, we shouldn’t imperil the future of a woman simply for committing a possible felony that lead to the false imprisonment and public humiliation of four innocent men.
And I suppose that there should be some ire directed at the media, who continue to print the names of the men but not their disgraced accuser, hiding the name of the only real criminal in the story. Her name will come out now, but only after the search engines bring back a few thousand returns on the names of the men.
There should be too, I assume, and yawning again, a fair amount of finger pointing at feminists who pushed for and got these insane rape shield laws, resulting in so many travesties of justice, so many lives ruined.
Truth tell, though, when I read what one of the accused had to say about the matter, I’d rather focus all my anger at him. In fact, I want to put him back in jail myself and throw away the key.
Upon being released, accused Stalin Felipe had this to say:
“Basically, I have no hard feelings toward her. I don’t know why she did it. I don’t know her so I don’t want to say anything bad about her.”
Bottom line is, if this guy wants to give her a pass, why should anyone else give a damn?
And the truth is that this guy is not unlike most men. Even with their neck planted squarely on the guillotine, if a woman’s hand is on the lever, the last words of men will likely as not be, “I’m sorry if I get your blade bloody.”
Men are, it seems, the greatest masochists of all time. Whatever you do, don’t get between a man and an opportunity to excuse a woman for whatever harm she causes to others.
You’ll be road kill in a nanosecond.
And that is precisely what men are becoming. They are like dumb animals that wander onto the super highway of gender politics, unable to grasp the concept of speed and Mac Trucks. After getting hit, the ones who don’t get squashed flat simply limp off to the shoulder, covering their pain with a smile and saying, “Please, ma’am, may I have another?”
Is this blaming the victim? You better believe it. And it is blame they have coming. Truckloads of it.
I am not going to bother asking. ‘where is the outrage?’ It’s like asking ‘where is the free health care?’ There isn’t much point in pursuing fantasies. I’ll leave that to police departments and DA’s. They have become experts at it.
I know that in the minds of many I am supposed to point to the nobility of men’s desires to protect women at all costs. That is why men continue to remain silent while they are destroyed before each other’s eyes. Yeah, that’s the ticket, it’s the nobility.
Normally, I’d expect feminists to find a way to mistake cowardice for nobility. Such delusions seem more their forte. It’s disgusting to see so many men do it. But such behavior has become part of the modern masculine repertoire. And frankly I am growing weary of men, myself included, protesting modern affairs as long as we are leaving jails and courtrooms like grinning weasels, wearing our disgraces like badges of honor.
Where are the Duke three? Why are they not all over this story? Why aren’t they doing anything to help prevent what happened to them from happening to others?
I’ll tell you where they are. They are busy being men. Which is to say that they are doing nothing at best, doing more damage at worst. It is the same place the Hofstra five will be by early next week. And with that they will join the legions of men wrongfully accused, falsely imprisoned, publicly humiliated and shamefully silent.
The only way that this is going to change is if some shepherds emerge to protect a flock that is incapable of, and unwilling to, protect itself.
It is going to be a hard job. Not only do the sheep need to be protected from the wolves now stalking them, they have the unfortunate tendency to collude with the wolves themselves, to seek their approval and attention, and to extend to them blanket exonerations, even as the wolves size them up and make dinner plans.
The same sheep also have the insane habit of pushing each other into the line of fire whenever they get the chance. They then stare at the carnage of their dead brothers in front of them, in the words of Don Henley, “uncomprehendingly, like cows at a passing train.”
It reveals a bitter truth that advocating for men is like trying to extend the lifespan of lemmings.
And so it isn’t just standing guard for the shepherds, it’s remaining on suicide watch the whole time. And it explains why so many efforts for men to organize and make things happen result in exactly squat. It’s easier to heard snakes with a stick.
Better that a few shepherds go wolf hunting on their own than to take the sheep with them, keeping in mind the whole time that the sheep themselves could be sneaking up behind them.
Paul Elam is the Editor-in-Chief of Men’s News Daily and the Publisher of A Voice for Men
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Stumble It!
September 19th, 2009 at 3:34 am
One of the great myths of feminism is that men look out for other men, in disregard of women, when in fact the opposite is nearly unanimous. My guess would be that more men would take the side of the false accuser in this case, even after the truth is out.
In fact, unless there is a fee involved, this is pretty much it, right here, right now. Men who have been falsely accused in the past, usually by an ex-wife who wants his savings and income while giving nothing in return and doesn’t even want to “allow” him to continue as a father to his children, will make statements that support other falsely accused men, and that’s pretty much it. There are notable exceptions, but I know I’m at least somewhat guilty of that.
Meanwhile, PC dictates that we all pretend evil men routinely gang up on innocent women and victimize them, even as living this lie presents no viable future for our children and society, just as the Commies who invented PC planned all along. Problem is, there is no shortage of useful idiots watching their idiot boxes thinking whatever they are told to think. Then comes another PC dictat, i.e. thou shalt not speak the truth for fear of “offending” a member of the victim class who is dumb enough to be a follower of PC, which roughly translated means expose a PC lie and we’ll attack you.
September 19th, 2009 at 2:00 am
These guys are most likely simply following the advice any decent lawyer would give them. When a woman falsely accuses you of committing one of the crimes where males are presumed guilty, you dare not say anything negative about her, even when you can prove it is undeniably the truth.
A “culture of rape” is code for male guilty, female victim, facts irrelevant, pre-judgement based on group membership. Never mind the fact that “unreported rape” flourishes in prisons across the world, but hey, those men “deserve it”, even if they are there as the result of a false accusation from a member of the eternal victim class.
When you’ve been falsely accused, the first thing you want is get the charges dropped, not retaliation against the false accuser. In our “culture of rape”, that translates into saying nice things about her, referring to her false accusations, not her, as “reckless” at worst. Otherwise any politically correct D.A. will use taxpayer money to charge you with something for not believing in the “culture of rape”, i.e. that women are always victims even when they are the perpetrator.
Assuming a male succeeds in getting the charges dropped, the best thing he can do for himself is to then keep quiet, lest the “culture of rape” have another round of attacks against him. That is why you never hear anything from the victims of Crystal Mangum and her partner in crime Nifong, because our culture is in denial of the undeniable fact that a male can be the victim of a female.
The only exception would be if the male had not only done nothing illegal, but nothing immoral as well, and most importantly his wife had suffered some considerable negative consequences, thus presenting a female as victim, the only allowable circumstance in a “culture of rape”.
September 18th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Jezebel.com also took and interest in this piece, also reducing any and all arguments against it to the use of the word “cheapening” in describing Ndonye’s behavior.
Here is my response to them:
As the author of the Men’s News Daily piece I must say it has been amusing to watch a scattering of internet ideologues struggle to comprehend it. And I must admit some empathy for them as I struggle to comprehend the attempts at logic proffered here and other places in response.
First we have the oft bemoaned double standard of how women’s appetite for casual or “deviant” sex is met with derision while the same in men often results in high-fives and bragging rights. It would be a fair enough complaint if I had even commented on the men’s sexual conduct. I didn’t.
But for the record, I don’t see any difference between the men and Ndonye in the events that preceded her allegations. All of them were engaging in risky, questionable and yes, self-cheapening conduct.
But as the men had already been falsely accused of behavior that far exceeded irresponsible sex, handcuffed, incarcerated and publicly humiliated it seemed to me that whatever their actions, they had more than paid the price for them. Tossing invective at the falsely accused on the way out of jail cells hardly seemed appropriate or even responsible.
But speaking of double standards, I also need to point to the incredulity of taking an indignant stance at my assertion that she cheapened herself with her actions, and then also bemoan that those actions were presented to her on a video recording as a refutation of her story.
So, women are to be freed from double standards of sexual conduct, but suddenly are replete with old school feminine modesty and vulnerability when viewing a few seconds of themselves engaging (quite enthusiastically, I understand) in that freedom? And of course they need our protection from it, even when it refutes a false allegation that could effectively destroy the lives of innocent men.
You have got to be putting me on.
I note from above:
“If reporting a rape means lawyers will force you to watch your own “sexcapade” until you “crack” no wonder more women don’t report it.”
This shockingly obtuse and convoluted interpretation of what happened is precisely what breeds the “us and them” mentality so bemoaned by Hess and others.
Ndonye was “forced” only to watch the clear and damning evidence of her lies. And it wasn’t until she ’cracked.’ it was until she told the truth.
Rape and false allegations are both serious social problems. And I agree that making them compete with each other for primacy in social consciousness goes nowhere, which is why Jezebel should have put up a “dead end” sign by the second paragraph of this piece.
September 18th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Feminists routinely make reference to rape culture, but no-one is making any reference to slut culture. So if it is politically incorrect to make reference to a slut culture, then it follows that the politics in power, the politics mantracizing the phrase “rape culture” is actually the driving force of the slut culture, which ultimately lies at the heart of all of this. It also follows that the politics of feminism is directly associated with “slutism” and the immoral conduct of women. Perhaps we should start to mantracize the phrase “slut culture”, because that’s really what it is, isn’t it?
September 18th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Newsday, a newspaper local to this crime, has taken it upon themselves to remove the numerous online comments linked to the articles about this event as they were overwhelmingly against the lying female perpetrator and were critical of the district attorney for her lack of action. The newspaper also closed all further comments to any article linked to the story. If you link to Newsday (you won’t stay long as the new format sucks) it is easy to see and very well known that this paper is obviously against any opinions negative to women and always covers up the ethnicity of criminals unless they are non-minority males.
My comment to the newspaper:
Where is the outrage? This has gone on too long. Double standards are killing this country one man at a time. Those men faced up to twenty five years in prison and if it were for the real criminal in this case not recanting her lies and instead continuing her ruse through a trial, these guys would have been ruined for life. The weight of her crime should equal that of the crime of which she falsely accused those men. Why is her picture and name not on the front page of this newspaper? Why is D.A. Rice not prosecuting this criminal?
Not too harsh is it Miss Andrist?
September 18th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Two… er, no, three key issues in Paul’s article:
1) The question of how the law treats men. Isn’t this really what Paul’s article was about? The rest, really, has nothing to do with it.
2) But seeing as Washington city paper did drag “rape culture” into this, then we can be specific in our response… the morality of the men and the woman is in the sewer. The entire western culture is at a moral crisis point. This is a separate, complex topic. If Hess thinks that she has the correct interpretation of all of this, then she is being simplistic and wrong.
3) Case in point… Hess discusses “rape culture” but never considers what role “slut culture” might have to play in all of this. If there is, supposedly, such a thing as a “rape culture” (whatever that’s supposed to mean), then at least by the same tenuous threads of feminist “logic”, we can more compellingly assert, with all the feminist hype in empowering women, that there exists a “slut culture” that lies at the heart of it all. “Rape culture”, presuming a culture comprised in large part of obsequious, chivalrous gollums who are supposedly capable of rape, is not as compelling as a “slut culture”, with feminism encouraging women to go grrrl, you can have it all, without any consequences. “Slut culture” is somehow more real in this day and age than is “rape culture”. The very story inspiring Hess’s argument suggests that the law is applied in favour of slut culture over rape culture. Hess is putting the cart before the horse… slut culture comes first, rape culture is the response.
September 18th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
@Mashed;
Your point is well taken about “rape shield” laws. Like the Queen in Alice in Wonderland “Verdict first, trial afterwards”
On Mike Nifong of Duke case comment”
Now we can ‘Nifong’ someone when we want to trump up criminal charges based on flimsy evidence allegedly for political purposes. In short, when we want to screw up someone’s life.”[5]
September 18th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
I have no problem with one “false accuser” squeezing under the umbrella the protects legitimate victims than to take away the protection for all of them, that is insane!
Yet this is precisely what rape shield laws do to the accused: take away the protection that protects even serial killers and mass murderers. It even prevents the media from naming people who make false allegations of rape without providing the least skerrick of anonymity to the victims of false allegations.
Rape shield laws are a vile and disgusting destruction of the very bedrock of our justice system. The right to a fair trial.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
the only reason the woman,who is named in the following article,recanted is because there is a video.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,552300,00.html
September 18th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
“If our culture was more understanding and open of “alternative” sexual lifestyles (which are so common as to be the de facto norm) perhaps these behaviors wouldn’t be so repressed and find expression in harmful and negative ways. Perhaps if genuinely poly-amorous people were “permitted” by mainstream society to life the lifestyle that is most fulfilling to them, we wouldn’t be treated to being spectators as a good friend, or even a Sig. Other, destroyed themselves in pursuit of sexual satisfaction.”
Being more understanding and open to alternative lifestyles is what caused these men to be falsely accused of rape. Monogamous sex, inside of marriage, is the safest route for men not to be falsely accused of rape by a woman because of the court’s bias against men.
Personally, I see nothing morally wrong with group sex, but I wouldn’t advise it,legally. Not for men,anyway.
“Rape is one the most underreported crimes of all time and this is exactly why!”
How do you know it is? I’ve never seen the results of any legitimate scientific study that claims rape is more under-reported than any other crime. If I had to guess, I’d say domestic violence against a man by a woman is the most under-reported crime. But that would simply be conjecture.
September 18th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I’m with you on blaming the victims. What the hell were they thinking with – their d*cks?
Dudes, get a clue:
Save yourself for your legally married wife.
Go Celibate!
September 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Of course our politicaly incorrect ideas are going to attract attention from other media outlets. I thought this is what we wanted. I thought we wanted this debate on the front burners of political discourse. Don’t fall for the shaming language. They can pick apart specific lines from our articles all they want, it is the overall, far reaching ideas that matter in the long run. Lets not be afraid of the debate, even with feminist. No one said this wasn’t going to be messy.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:41 am
#13
RStewie Said:
Yes, everyone’s guilty. Their behavior is outside of my comprehension. No sympathy from me. But there is a dynamic here that you seem to be ignoring.
I think it’s important to acknowledge that, unlike any of the men, the woman acted as an individual vis a vis a group. If she was enveloped by the desire to have ritual sex with five braves, she had to make a compact with each and every one of those men, and with the group as a whole.
I could speculate that the men made a tacit agreement to depart as a group from conventional public behavior. I call it “Bacchanalian” because I think the roots of this sort of thing can be informed by anthropology and evolutionary biology. Five young men having public sex with a single woman is an archetypal image. You could see how inclined individuals might become prone to their own animal impulses when confronted by an opportunity that roughly simulated some secret erotic fantasy.
That’s how I see it: as the “object” of the men’s collective behavior, the woman must take special responsibility for having created the conditions wherein the group coalesced in the first place. That is, if the woman were not there to make it happen, no sex party would have occurred in the first instance.
The same cannot be said of any one of the individual men. This is why I say there is a one-to-many relationship at work here.
Of course the men were all participants, and so all are culpable. But ignoring the fact of the woman’s unique control over this kind of situation is not reasonable.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:35 am
@RStewie
“Mike, what about the guys? Since all five of them allegedly “trained” on this girl consensually, where is their shame?”
Allegedly? Do have any proof that these guys “allegedly trained” on this girl? I doubt that. Even if they did “train” her, it’s not their fault that this girl willing whored herself out. So, don’t blame the guys for this girl’s bad choice of being a slut. She should be shamed for being a whore and for wasting man power with her bogus rape allegations. It is because of girls like her that real rape victims do not get taken seriously.
“Or is that another of those “scorecard” hookup things?”
Or is that another of those stupid male stereotype labels that man-hating feminists like to put on men who enjoy sex? Besides, I don’t see you condemning women who sell there bodies off for money.
“It’s hilarious that you guys just CAN NOT see the point.”
No, it’s hilarious that YOU can not get the point, since you can’t understand logic and facts, anyway. Feminists like yourself are too stupid to.
“I am so glad my husband and the other men I know and am around are not so determined to stand up for their “rights””
That’s because your husband and your male “cheerleaders” are just a bunch of emasculated, *****-whipped, mangina, eunuchs who love seeking female attention and approval and are willing to excuse women’s bad behavior even at the expense of their own manhood.
They wouldn’t even know what their “rights” are nor would care about the rights of other men.
“that they ignore the facts of reality.”
Men do not ignore the facts of reality. YOU and your feminists cohorts do. You wouldn’t know the facts if they bit you in the ***. You’ve been detached from reality all throughout your “centuries of rape and oppression”.
“Next thing you know, Paul will put forth a wordy and self-righteous article “proving” there is no sexual harassment in the workplace, women make as much as men do, etc etc.”
Don’t blame the messenger for speaking the truth. If that makes Paul self-righteous, so be it. I would rather be self-righteous than ignorant.
Also, sexual harassment is two-fold and hypocritical. That is why it is so difficult to take seriously on a case-by-case basis. A man could get accused of sexual harassment just for staring at a women or even for having the nerve to call a co-worker when she is at home to invite her out for a drink. On the other hand, if a woman finds a co-worker attractive, she wouldn’t see his come-ons as harassment, she would she it as flirting.
The pay gap myth has been debunked to death, but it always seems to fly over your dumb feminist head. Men work more hours than women do and tend to take less time off. Men also tend to take more hazardous jobs which tend to pay more while women tend to take jobs that are less risky like office work and nursing which tend to pay less.
Believe it or not, some women in younger age brackets do tend to make more money than some men in the same bracket due to more women being in college and better job opportunities for women (although one reason for this is because of men being passed over in favor of getting more women into the workplace due to positive discrimination). Then, you have to factor in the money women get from alimony, child support, and other government funded programs which men don’t have the benefit of.
It is usually when women get into their thirties is where the pay gap widens and men make more overall due to women leaving the workforce to start families.
“Also, how hilarious is it to me that the majority of the adverts on this site are for dating sites?”
What does that have to do with the content of the article or with the content of the site itself? Adverts are usually used to draw hits to other sites and to pay for bandwidth on this site. Are you assuming that men only use this site as forum to pick up women? Yeah, right.
“…thanks for the chuckle, guys.”
I don’t find anything funny about all this. If there is anything funny, it is the ignorance coming from you.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:30 am
“Insane rape sheild laws?” Are you serious, Paul? Rape is one the most underreported crimes of all time and this is exactly why! I have no problem with one “false accuser” squeezing under the umbrella the protects legitimate victims than to take away the protection for all of them, that is insane! While I agree that it is beyond repulsive for someone to falsely accuse another (or in this case several others) of a serious crime, it is obvious by the tone of your entire article that you’ve taken this “opportunity” to slam ALL women in general and chastise men for “allowing them” to have any type of power or ability to even make an accusation in the first place. Your disdain for women as a whole is totally transparent as you seem to imply that rape is a made up fantasy that no longer occurs this day in age, I mean how could it right? With all these feminists traipsing about the place emasculating all the poor innocent men? The fact is…THIS ONE girl lied and did horrible thing by accusing a group of men that she was at first so willing to please sexually, maybe because she wants cover up her slutiness, or maybe she’s evil, or maybe she’s crazy, blah blah blah. It doesn’t matter because she was still wrong to do this, but what you have remember is that she is only ONE of the millions of women whom you seek to discredit and strip of their power. Maybe you should move to an Islamic country, their laws would probably suit your viewpoints better.
September 18th, 2009 at 8:34 am
While “Philosopher Kings” have varying views on gender morality,legal reality is much more strong. District Attorneys (States Attorneys in some jurisdictions) have “prosecutorial immunity” and they also have “prosecutorial discretion” to see if the evidence is strong enough to proceed with a trial
While some DA like Jim Garrison in former President Kennedy assasination investigation haunted Clay Shaw, it was Duke University case that caused prosecutors to be more diligent.
“Don’t get Nifonged” was reportedly one canditates motto for DA, alluding to DA Mike Nifong who headed the very public case. Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong
September 18th, 2009 at 7:40 am
I feel genuinely sorry for all you people who seem to think the only “good” kind of sex is between one man and one woman who are in a committed (and presumably) long-term relationship, hopefully a pre-cursor to marriage.
I feel sorry for you firstly because if this is the kind of sex you believe in, then you probably aren’t getting enough of it, and certainly haven’t had the pleasure of being educated by a number of caring, enthusiastic partners in the finer points of love-making, which no amount of porn can instill in you.
Secondly, I feel sorry for you because you cherish an unrealistic image of human beings as sexual animals. Yes, some people are monogamous and only want to have sex with people they truly love and want to spend their life with.
But Most People are Not.
And it is this unrealistic image of human sexuality that twists and perverts people’s healthy and normal sexual appetites into something fetishized, hidden, and shameful.
How many times, in our private lives and in the press, do we see some hypocrite being outed as a “cheat” or a “whore” for following thru on an urge that was so undeniable it caused them to risk (and often lose) their family or their career? High-profile examples come to mind (Gov. Sanford, Ted Haggard and Bill Clinton) but everyone knows someone who did something just as shitty, dishonest, and “shameful.” I can think of three examples of it among people I know in the past year.
If our culture was more understanding and open of “alternative” sexual lifestyles (which are so common as to be the de facto norm) perhaps these behaviors wouldn’t be so repressed and find expression in harmful and negative ways. Perhaps if genuinely poly-amorous people were “permitted” by mainstream society to life the lifestyle that is most fulfilling to them, we wouldn’t be treated to being spectators as a good friend, or even a Sig. Other, destroyed themselves in pursuit of sexual satisfaction.
Surely I can’t be the only one who feels this way? Or perhaps I, along with Gov. Sanford, Mr. Haggard, Pres. Clinton, and millions of others, am just a sicko, a weirdo, a pervert, and, oh yeah, a “cheap slut.”
September 18th, 2009 at 6:29 am
I like one of the posters above would not have wished to be the sixth guy. It just would not interest or appeal to me. Actually these days very little does. That said I would not condemn the men. Who knows all the circumstances. May be for some of them this is the closest they have ever got to sexual intimacy with a woman. It could be that in their lives this was the best that was on offer.
May be we need to remember that a man’s sex drive is extremely powerful and does lead a man to folly like getting married. I think it is in the nature of sexual desire that it does at the very least cloud ones judgement.
In fact it is a propelling force that where we rid of it there would be no need for MRAs at all.
September 18th, 2009 at 5:12 am
@ Tarrou
Of course the other criticism I got was that I didn’t sufficiently “moralize” the behavior of the men.
You can’t please everyone.
I don’t think covering this story or writing on men’s issues reduces me to the position of moral relativist. Nor should it. If I can’t point out that sex on a bathroom floor with five strangers is dehumanizing, then I shouldn’t point out that lying about it and putting men in jail is morally inadequate.
Puritanical baggage? Nope. Common sense. This whole thing began with poor decisions. Gang sex on the washroom floor was one of them, and it hardly makes me puritanical to point that out.
I also pointed out in my piece on the Duke Lacrosse case that the accuser, Crystal Mangum, was a drug addled hooker. And she was. Is that more puritanical baggage, or valid information that rightly affects her credibility?
I would not have felt it appropriate to comment on her sexual behavior, except that it was clearly that behavior that set the scenario for the false allegations to emerge.
If I am going to guard myself from feminists who will practice such loose associations with my words, then I won’t be able to write anything at all. I don’t try to appease the mentality of people who routinely claim that any assertion on behalf men is hatred of women.
I’d be glad to thump my bible if I had one, but I am not a religious person. I am as far as the Christian right as you can imagine. But one needn’t be a Christian to see shaky and questionable behavior and take an honest look at it.
September 18th, 2009 at 2:47 am
” That’s legal and media speak for admitting she cheapened herself by taking on five men willingly ”
And this is the sort of opening statement that we should be striving to excise from our discussion of the topic. It’s useless, misleading, plays into feminist stereotyping of men. Not to mention being the sort of rank moralizing that instantly raises my hackles. Look, if that’s a person’s preferred sexual practice, or even a one off, thats not my business or yours. I certainly won’t line up to be #6, but I’m not going to go all puritanical over multiple sexual partners. That covers me, let’s move on to why it’s a bad idea in general.
1: It adds nothing to the debate. Yes, we get she’s a horrible human being, she perjured herself and attempted to send five innocent men to prison. A sexual kink really doesn’t weight the scales any more.
2: It excludes the men, who by all accounts seem to have participated, leading to:
3: Playing directly into feminist stereotyping of the rape-related legal process. I.E. “women are stigmatized but men aren’t, the courts always blame the victim” etc.
It’s not true, of course, but why throw it in? Why give ammo to teh enemy, while giving us nothing new or useful? To satisfy your own concept of morality? There’s a million ways in which this is yet another clarion call for men to resist our discrimination in the courts. We don’t need (and I personally don’t want) to be burdened with WASP puritanical baggage while we do it. Men’s Rights is not a purview of the christian right. If that’s where you hail from, great, glad you’re with us, but try to keep the focus on what really matters, and leave the bible thumping for the creationist forums.
September 18th, 2009 at 1:34 am
Porky,
Of course…… I should have guessed.
If you are female, and you try and destroy 5 other people’s lives, it’s not your fault : You simply need help and understanding.
Good Grief, I need to hurry up and get out of this collapsing matriarchy as soon as possible….
September 18th, 2009 at 12:37 am
The false accuser was Danmell Ndonye, and Rice has already set up a defense with this statement…
“Her actions and her demeanor depict a very troubled young woman in need of some help,”.
Aw, the poor thing! She’s troubled, so here comes the female sentencing discount, that’s if they even decide to prosecute of course.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
RStewie: “Open your eyes. Be a “Man”.”
You came to the wrong forum. No one here is frightened or oppressed by yet another woman presuming to instruct men regarding what men are “supposed to be like” or are “supposed to do”. We’ve seen it before countless times and are are monumentally unimpressed. News flash: you do not determine what it means to be a man. That is for men to do.
“When you’ve gone through centuries of rape and oppression”
Oh BOY did you ever come to the wrong forum. There is not a single person here who believes for a moment that you are centuries old. When you are, then you can talk about the centuries of oppression that you have suffered under and expect to be taken seriously.
The “Rape Culture” meme is a fantasy built up around a single fact: Many women find it convenient and uplifting to be pursued by men for sex and companionship rather than having to pursue men. Being the pursuer is difficult and psychologically draining because it consists almost entirely of rejection punctuated by the occasional “conquest” while being the pursued is easy and psychologically uplifting as it consists almost entirely of compliments, free meals and other gifts.
The vast majority of disapproval of promiscuous women comes not from men (who enjoy associating with such women even when they don’t intend to marry them) but from other women who regard promiscuous women as debasing their sexual currency. After all, what need has a man to pursue a largely unavailable woman while there are other women who don’t need to be pursued at all?
Calling this “Rape Culture” is nothing but a reprise of the old feminist standby: Cherchez le Homme. When a woman does something or when women do something, find a man or men to blame. Think on this: female pornography (the “romance” novel) are referred to as “bodice rippers” for the unsubtle rape theme that underpins the entire genre. Male pornography on the other hand, in the vast majority of cases, involves one or more women who desire sex just as much as the men depicted therein.
When women fantasize about being raped and men fantasize about women who just want sex, it’s not men constructing any “rape culture”
September 17th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Reading down the comments I have read a lot of nonsense probably sent here from a feminist website. Joseph’s comment-
“but more importantly don’t participate in something that society would universally agree is unacceptable just because you find someone that wants to do it.”
particularly small minded and bigoted. Here he is referring to groups sex (in this case one woman and several men). Actually Joseph other peoples sexual behaviour is nothing to do with you and putting forwards your own small mindedness as something ’society would universally agree’ is just to elevate your own prejudice beyond its true status.
Jpseph we need no sex police like you. What likes and dislikes you have are your business but if other want their sex alone, with one other or in groups is their business.
September 17th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Paul Elam is quite right…and as for those posters who “cannot sympathise” with someone who has been falsely accused of a crime, I say the following:
Even the idiot Hollywood Execs (who, let’s face it, are the biggest anti-male BLUNDERERS, cancelling good shows and keeping bad ones), these Hollywood types understand exactly what it means to sympathise with those who have been falsely accused and imprisoned. Hence movies like “the Shawshank Redemption”. Oh, but I forgot, he was a man so he “deserves” no sympathy. Yes, my mistake.
Instead we get this howler:
“What kind of men have gang sex with anyone?
Please, what about civility and class?”
It was CIVIL for the girl to falsely accuse 5 guys (at least some of whom we now know she had never met) of a really bad crime like rape?
It was “classy” for her to ruin the lives of 5 men (at least some of whom we now know she had never met) by happily seeing them hauled off to jail for a crime she KNEW never happened?
REALLY?
This is like trying to tell everyone that Al Capone was actually a Public Hero who was really an honest used furniture salesman.
This is like trying to tell everyone that Joseph Stalin was actually a Terribly Misunderstood Public Figure – instead of the cruel murderous vicious cowardly dictator he really was.
Has “sex” become so WORSHIPPED that anyone who even HINTS that something might not be right with it is to be condemned? And in that defence of sex, if someone is shown to have falsely accused men of sexual assault, well, no lie is too awful, no sewer too low to stoop into, in order to defend the SPOTLESS pure-as-the-driven-slush character of modern sexuality!!!!!!!…?
As for this statement:
“I have trouble finding much sympathy for these guys, because i’m assuming that the girl was drunk/impaired, and taking advantage of someone in that condition is just plain wrong.”
You ASSUME she was drunk? What about FACTS?
The FACT is she lied her head off, causing 4 men to be jailed, and a further man to be hunted down like a dog because it’s a FACT none of it happened. We KNOW that at least some of the men NEVER MET HER.
How is never meeting someone “taking advantage” of them? There is no possible logical connection between “never meeting” someone and “taking advantage of” that person.
Once again, as Paul says, we spend our time condemning guys (even males they know to be utterly innocent) in order to exonerate girls we know to be demonstrated liars. WHY?
How often do you have to be duped?
How often do you have to see your reputation – and the reputation of your gender – get massacred before you realise that being lied about is a BAD THING?
These men will have this false allegation follow them FOR LIFE. Their reputations have been utterly RUINED. Their ability to obtain gainful employment has been so badly compromised, in the present economic circumstances, it is likely they will never be able to escape the story and thus never get work, and that’s a fast road to financial ruin.
So – for those who cannot grasp that this is a really nasty thing to happen to them, we see the innocent men who:
#1. never did what the girl said they did;
#2. face instant exclusion from their previous circle of friends (because of reactions like those above)
#3. face being forced to continually face the humiliation of explaining “they didn’t really do it”
#4. face the high likelihood of being unable to obtain employment due to the fear any potential employer has of employing those who have been accused of a sex-crime (even if the accusation can be shown to be utterly false);
#5. face the high likelihood of going broke as they are saddled with education-related debt(s) and (because of #4) they cannot pay them off
#6. face the high likelihood of being unable to find anyone willing to “partner up” with them because of this allegation (so no wife and no kids for them)
and so on and so forth.
Hey, for those of you who STILL condemn the men (now know to be innocent):
CONGRATULATIONS! You have witnessed the COMPLETE RUIN of 4 (possibly 5) men based on your belief of the lies of one nutty girl.
Well Done! Andrea “all men are rapists” Dworkin would be PROUD of you.
Oh, and let’s not forget the OTHER, unnamed victims of this girl’s lies:
#1. the legal system – which will now find it more difficult to secure convictions against those who have actually done the wrong thing
#2. the Police – who look really stupid (as if they needed that)
#3. those who really DO have a genuine complaint about sexual assault, who will find it all the more difficult to find anyone to beleive them (who certainly do NOT need that)
WELL FRIKKIN’ DONE!
September 17th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
@ Amfortas
Perhaps you didn’t understand the line that so offended you.
The fact is that men, despite hogwash about it being “a man’s world” are clearly not wired to coalesce around and ameliorate their own disadvantages. The lack of any real momentum for men’s initiatives, indeed the struggles we still face over 20 years after the first printing of Myth of Male Power, is clear enough evidence of a problem that we cannot continue to blame simply on misandry or feminism.
It is clear to me after enough years of being a student of men’s lives that most of reason for the lack of progress is in the laps of men who won’t fight back and who don’t even think they should.
In other words, acting like lemmings heading for he cliffs.
That is what I see, so that is what I say. And I have naught but to take an honest look at the world around me to find all the defense required for it.
I am never assured of universal agreement. Indeed, I understand the reality of guaranteed dissent with each keystroke. It comes with the territory.
I can’t speak for why anyone but myself as to why I am here. For me, it is clearing the miasma of the gender disharmony of the past forty years and searching for clear air. If that involves the periodic look in the mirror, then I will live with it.
And I am quite aware of the weight of this position. I won’t do anything to lessen it by being unfaithful to my own beliefs.
September 17th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
@ Paul: “but they didn’t react to it by threatening the well being of innocent people.”.
That is small comfort to all the other men accused unfairly and incarcerated on a lie when they were not involved in any incident in any manner.
These five men WERE involved and in a ’suspicious’ manner.
It is the incontinent actions of men like this that gave the power to the Feminist lobby to bring in such draconian treatment of innocent men.
And that said, I certainly do not want them locked up and their names and lives ruined over their poor behaviour.
And, a criticism has to be made of you Paul.
As Editor you speak with an ‘Authority’ like it or not, legitimate or not. To have the words “The Editor of MND” prefacing critical comments in a newspaper brings MND into the spotlight. It behoves you to make your comments and articles FAR more clear and defensible than those of any other contributor here, contributors that you can simply throw off when a criticism appears, so as to protect MND.
I take particular and personal offense to this line in your article – “It reveals a bitter truth that advocating for men is like trying to extend the lifespan of lemmings”
What are we here for? Are we all wasting our time?
Is this a useful Editorial attitude?
Leadership?
Who approves your articles?
September 17th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
This was Amanda Hess’ description of rape culture:
“Rape culture does not just encourage men to proceed after she says “no.” Rape culture does not simply teach men that a lack of physical resistance is an invitation. Rape culture does not only tell men to assert ownership over whichever female body they desire. Rape culture also tells women not to claim ownership over their own bodies. Rape culture also informs women that they should not desire sex. Rape culture also tells women that saying yes makes them bad women.”
Maybe I can get behind the idea that some of us live in a “rape culture.” But of all the people I’ve known, only a few would arguably have come from such a place that would send them out to the world with a hint of such values… and none of them have been either a rapist or rape victim. I’d be curious to learn where rape culture is such a real and pervasive threat that it needs a name.
Hess’ zeroing in on your lack of rebuke to the boys may be fair enough to point out, but if ones puts aside the post-act accusation and recanting, do we see an example of “rape culture”? Hess does not necessarily point to the 5 guys/1 girl scenario itself as an example, but she does try to defend citing your piece with her last paragraph:
“Meanwhile, the four released men in the case carry no such group-sex stigma when they pose triumphantly outside the jailhouse doors.”
If there had been no accusation of rape, should we still assume the girl’s actions would be viewed through the rape culture lens as being those of a “bad girl”, while the boys would be admired as sexual conquerors? I don’t buy that at all – not on today’s college campuses, anyway. Not the part about the “bad girl.” In fact, I have known some young women who carried no social scars for having reputations for sexual daring (or perversity, pick your term.)
It seems more like a thoughtless “porn culture” rather than a values-based approach to the opposite sex. I wonder how many young people learn everything they know about the sex act – the physical, practical knowledge of “what do I do now that my clothes are off” – from porn, and have to work backwards to achieve a more valuable intimacy with others? Without getting into whether porn is a linchpin in the “rape culture” argument (I would assume the over-educated types say it is, but cannot bother verifying,) I see this – at best, in terms of a cultural critique – as “porn culture” begets “rape culture.” Too much culture if you ask me, and not enough sanity regarding equal protection under the law.
September 17th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
@ Amfortas
All very cogent points. Of course, in retrospect, I could have given mention to the fact that the behavior of the men was, at least in my opinion, as low rent as that of the woman. And indeed, the criticism I got at the Washington City Paper focused on that aspect as well.
But honestly as I wrote that, the sexual boundaries of the participants wasn’t much more than a passing thought. I focused on the girls shame and ’self-cheapening’ because she was the one that lied, presumably to cover that shame, putting the men in peril.
My guess would be that those clowns were giving each other high-fives when it was over and bragging to anyone who would listen.
Certainly they were good examples of being low rent, but they didn’t react to it by threatening the well being of innocent people. And that may well mean that their standards were even more questionable than hers.
Perhaps all of them should have ended up in some self reckoning, but I know you agree that none of them should have ended up behind bars.
September 17th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Another good article Paul with hard hitting words and – perhaps – just a little confusion. I too look to the day when men can find some guiding Principles that contain their behaviours; and woman can too. Not that such Principles are unknown.
It is becoming all too common for the Prosecutorial knee-jerk to kick the men to an unjust touch while letting the woman carry the ball over the line for touchdown.
But I think your opening regarding the woman could be taken as bias and be offensive to some. “That’s legal and media speak for admitting she cheapened herself by taking on five men willingly on a men’s room floor and lied about it later out of what little capacity for shame she had.”
Yes. I agree. But that applies equally to the five men involved. They have cheapened themselves and seem to have little capacity for shame.
That needed to be said. Clearly. Far more clearly than you do.
Five men and one woman? Consented sex ?
I have never been able to comprehend this sort of thing. Apprehend it, yes, as it seems to happen from time to time. But grasping it? Understanding it? It beats me.
Why would five men/boys want to all have one woman?
What possible erotic potential does it have?
What sort of people would revel in this sort of sexual activity?
I can understand the erotic potential of a threesome, which would be assymetric of course; or a foursome where there are two couples. I can even understand the erotic potential of a room full of writhing bodies. But there is something sinister and perverse about a large number of men and one women.
From her POV, I ‘might’ understand the erotic potential of so many ready and available men, just as I could see a chap revelling in having five naked women in his bedroom. But what can possibly motivate the five women with one man. What can possibly motivate five men with one woman?
Frankly, to me, it is a situation largely involving being demeaned. The four chaps watching one chap with a woman, what are they there for? To tell him what to do? To learn how to do it themselves? Are they scared of being naked with a woman by themselves? Are they waiting their turn to show off?
Where is the intimacy?
Maybe someone can explain this to me.
Perhaps anyone trying to educate me here might say whether they would join with four other men to have sex with one over-used woman.
There are psychopaths and sociopaths around who have no conscience; the have no sense of ‘guilt’; no empathy. They are morally deficient and that pre-disposes criminality.
Feminism encourages this lack of feeling ‘guilty’ – for women, that is. Men are always guilty until proven otherwise and even then…. But the ‘free-pass, no-guilt woman has become a societal menace. As have her protectors in the legal system.
But there are also people around with no sense of shame; no sense of disgust. No Integrity. No Honour. I suspect that the five chaps you talk of are amongst that cohort.
September 17th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Movies and TV like “Sex and the City” promote promiscuity for both men and women. Then when some people are unable to find a partner, they resort to other means like selling sex. Police in Florida busted dozens of people who had advertised availability on Craigslist.
Fox link to story and includes a link to the pictures. Yet other vilolent crimes continue to rise. Maybe police and prosecutors seek publicity and extra funding. ( In many jurisdictions the DA is elected) Link:
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/state_news/091409_Dozens_arrested_prostitution_bust
September 17th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
“Are you afraid to walk to your car once it’s dark because you feel someone might attack you in the parking lot?”
Yes. Since men are the victims of about 80% of murders and physical violence, I would say that I take that fact into account wherever I go.
“Do you lock all your doors at night when you’re home alone because you’re afraid someone might break into your house to assault you?”
Yes, that is part of being a responsible homeowner. Also, keeping a gun in the home is not a bad idea.
“When you go out to a club, do you religiously watch your drink to make sure you don’t end up like one of your friends: sick and sore and in an unfamiliar place?”
The most common “date-rape drug” is alcohol,which women consume of their own volition,if that is what you’re referring to. Numerous studies debunk the idea that anyone is putting anything in the drinks of supposed “drink-spiking victims”.
“If you are sexually assaulted do you expect to be treated well by the hospital/police you report to and are not?”
No. I expect to be laughed at, and told to “suck it up”, or “be a man”, if I ever report a sexual assault. I have been statutorily raped by two women, and just plain raped by another woman. I know about the treatment men receive when reporting sexual assault.
“Do you find the circumstances you face after being assaulted to be as victimizing as the assault itself?”
Absolutely.
Rape is a crime that has been punished by death,castration, and/or long sentences of imprisonment by men the world over for centuries,maybe millennia.
There is no such thing as a “rape culture” anywhere. Even in countries where rape is more common, there are still harsh punishments existing for rapists, if and when they get caught.
You act as though men sit around retelling rape stories to each other and high-fiving each other over it.
Have you ever met a man who had anything but the most abject disapproval for rape or rapists? Men in general are probably more horrified by the act of a rape than women are. Women fantasize about being raped and make their fantasies into movies for lifetime television,men write laws to punish rapists to the full extent that society will accept.
On a side note, this place is becoming a ====ing nest for goddamned feminist agent provocateurs. What the —- is wrong with some of you people?
“Men, as a group, DESERVE the treatment we get at the hands of our post-feminist society.”
Bullshit,we do! If it wasn’t for us there wouldn’t BE any society!
We don’t deserve to have ANY of this bullshit foisted on us.
After everything we’ve done for women and children for thousands of years,building their houses,dying to protect them, inventing all the technologies that have made their lives easier over the years, we deserve to have statues built in our honor and be canonized as ****** SAINTS. Not be sent to prison on a woman’s word because she engaged in a gang bang like a slut and then didn’t want to wear the label she earned for her behavior.
September 17th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
The woman lied, she was in the wrong, and she obviously has some major issues, BUT these guys shouldn’t be up in arms about anything or expecting an apology from anyone. While technically they may not have done anything wrong, it was very poor judgement and such a dubious activity carried with it a HUGE potential for things to end up badly. Every man that I know would not have participated in anything like this even if it was consensual. The writer, nor these guys should be taking the self-righteous angle. Everyone can take something away from this – don’t get involved with crazy chicks, but more importantly don’t participate in something that society would universally agree is unacceptable just because you find someone that wants to do it.
September 17th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
@ Sean
I think it is a fair bet that the guys were drinking too. Part of the overarching problem is the knee jerk to see women as children and victims. This woman made a choice and ultimately admitted to it. There is no evidence at all that anyone took advantage of her.
In fact, it was clearly her that took advantage of them.
As long as people keep seeing perpetrators as victims simply because they are female, we will keep jailing innocent men.
September 17th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
@10
Anyone can imagine things to be afraid of. Virtually everything you’ve said is based off of what happens in your imagination. If I’m afraid of space aliens it’s my problem. It doesn’t mean that space aliens have actually done anything to me or that I have anything to worry about.
Have you gone through centuries of rape and oppression? That is a ridiculous argument. My ancestors are from a bunch of countries that have had countless wars with each other. If some of my ancestors oppressed some of my other ancestors how does that affect me?
September 17th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
When you’ve gone through centuries of rape and oppression,
How many hundred years old are you?
September 17th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I have trouble finding much sympathy for these guys, because i’m assuming that the girl was drunk/impaired, and taking advantage of someone in that condition is just plain wrong.
And yeah, I also think it’s pretty funny about all the adds for dating sites. MND is probably fortunate that match.com has not
clued in that their ads are shown here.
September 17th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Mike, what about the guys? Since all five of them allegedly “trained” on this girl consensually, where is their shame? Or is that another of those “scorecard” hookup things?
It’s hilarious that you guys just CAN NOT see the point. I am so glad my husband and the other men I know and am around are not so determined to stand up for their “rights” that they ignore the facts of reality.
Next thing you know, Paul will put forth a wordy and self-righteous article “proving” there is no sexual harassment in the workplace, women make as much as men do, etc etc.
Also, how hilarious is it to me that the majority of the adverts on this site are for dating sites? …thanks for the chuckle, guys.
September 17th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
@ Jay R
Part of my post (unoriginal): “False rape accusations are the means by which all women keep all men in a state of fear.”
Are you **** kidding me? What’s worse, being held in a state of fear that someone might accuse you of hurting another person, or living in a state of fear that someone will actually hurt you? How many unreported rapes are there in this country compared to false accusations? Not to mention victim shaming (in this case, the woman who had group sex with 4 men was immediately called “cheapened” by the author of this piece of shit article) that can lead to recanting of rape accusations.
I know being accused of a terrible crime is an awful experience, but to hold it to be a worse experience than the thing actually happening and therefore making it more difficult for real victims to have their voices heard and a measure of justice brought to them is really cruel.
September 17th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Those particular guys are innocent of the crime. But they (and the girl) are guilty of Bacchanalian excess.
That’s why nobody’s shouting over this. It’s embarrassing and none of these people garner any sympathy from men or women.
The key element, though, is the next morning regret/lie/allegation that lead the arrests and bs charges.
What a mess. Maybe Miss Pornstar should do a walking tour of high schools in her community. Wouldn’t that be humiliating? Now there’s justice.
September 17th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Wow. I came from the topic posted above, and obviously there are a number of men out here on the Internet that have NO CLUE as to the culture they are living in.
Are you afraid to walk to your car once it’s dark because you feel someone might attack you in the parking lot?
Do you lock all your doors at night when you’re home alone because you’re afraid someone might break into your house to assault you?
When you go out to a club, do you religiously watch your drink to make sure you don’t end up like one of your friends: sick and sore and in an unfamiliar place?
If you are sexually assaulted do you expect to be treated well by the hospital/police you report to and are not?
Do you find the circumstances you face after being assaulted to be as victimizing as the assault itself?
Maybe you should check with your wife/girlfriend/mother/aunt/female cousins to see if these apply to them. If they do, we live in a rape culture. Did it not occur to you that possibly she recanted because she realized she didn’t want to be the “gang-raped girl” on campus for the whole time she was at college. Maybe she had consented previously with one or more of the men but in that instance said No and now the police and legal system seemed against her. Maybe she felt threatened by being the new girl on campus and didn’t want to face the scorn of her fellow classmates…the ones that thought she must have “wanted it” or was lying.
Open your eyes. Be a “Man”.
When you’ve gone through centuries of rape and oppression, then you will have a leg to stand on concerning what does and does not constitute a rape culture.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Hey, Jay! Thanks for the suggestion about voicing my opinion on the “rape culture” nonsense.
Part of my post (unoriginal): “False rape accusations are the means by which all women keep all men in a state of fear.”
September 17th, 2009 at 10:30 am
The last thing the world needs is another reason for women to be afraid of reporting rape. The problem of rape is far greater than that of false accusations.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:01 am
I responded to the “False Rape Accusations and Rape Culture” story linked to above in the comments section. Everyone should voice their opinion there. Apparently they believe that we live in a Rape Culture!! Thats right, they think that our culture actively supports rape!! No longer is it just the Patriarchy, now we have the Rapetriarchy!
September 17th, 2009 at 9:47 am
You’ve come a LONG way, baby! Women are now just as disgusting and vile as they (justly, for the most part) accuse men of being. Congratulations on your “progress,” ladies.
But I agree with you, Paul. Men, as a group, DESERVE the treatment we get at the hands of our post-feminist society. We have been our own worst enemies — arrogant, stupid and venal. We have been stupid enough to believe feminists’ rants about how “powerful” we are — and so have done nothing while the power we once had has been relentlessly diminished in the service of the new, feminist order. Bulls have allowed themselves to be made steers — because they have been told that this is what the cows wanted. And, being just as stupid, of course, the cows have come to accept that this is indeed what they want. So, most everyone is getting a trip to the slaughter house.
In effect, under feminism’s perverse influence, women have informed men, “We are going to rape and emasculate you financially, legally, emotionally, socially and psychologically, but you’ll get some “free” sex out of it.” We men, dumb bastards that we tend to be (even the “smart” ones), have responded, “Ok, that sounds fair!”
Men have largely turned into pathetic jokes. Women, now that they are getting what they asked for, are unhappier, more pressured, and less satisfied than they have ever been. They are getting what they deserve, as well.
None are so blind as those that will not see, none so deaf as those who will not hear. I find myself surrounded by voluntary Helen Keller’s.
If only the bill for all of this mess wasn’t inevitably delivered to the kids’ table.
September 17th, 2009 at 8:57 am
@ Paul Elam
You had alredy articulated the ourage just when I found on Drudge Report the false accusation, no name for woman and doubts by police if she will be prosecuted. Link
http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/hofstra.rape.case.2.1189029.html
September 17th, 2009 at 8:36 am
[...] yet, even the people who care most about false rape accusations seem to find ways to keep rape culture going strong. In his coverage of the case, Men’s News Daily editor Paul Elam writes: In what has become a [...]
September 17th, 2009 at 8:34 am
@ Pax
Are you kidding me? We can discuss civility and class when those things apply to the criminal justice system. These men had their whole lives threatened by a lie and you want to focus on THEIR lack of class?
Please
September 17th, 2009 at 8:02 am
Once again from Paul Elam, powerful words. True leaders, great leaders, leaders who inspire their followeres to victory, do not choose to lead as much as they are chosen. Show me where to go, and I will follow. I have found my leader.
September 17th, 2009 at 7:55 am
What kind of men have gang sex with anyone?
Please, what about civility and class?