Yawning at Hofstra
In what has become a more or less common turn of events, the female Hofstra University student that accused five men, including one classmate, of gang raping her in a school dormitory bathroom has recanted the charges. That’s legal and media speak for admitting she cheapened herself by taking on five men willingly on a men’s room floor and lied about it later out of what little capacity for shame she had.
I suppose, I say yawning, that this is the time for outrage. And there are plenty of reasons for it, starting with Nassau Police Detective John Allen, commander of the special victims squad. Allen announced in a press conference that the men had tricked the 18 year old woman into coming to a dorm by taking her cell phone.
“Clearly,” he said, “I think the cell phone was taken to lure her away from the crowd to do her harm.”
And of course, in the Nassau Police Department as in so many others, “Clearly” means she said so.
And next we have Nassau County District Attorney Kathleen Rice. After releasing four of the men from jail (the fifth was still being hunted down), Rice issued a statement that a criminal investigation would be conducted but that no decision had been made as to whether to file charges against the woman.
Rice already has more evidence of an actual crime committed by the woman than she did against the four men that were incarcerated. Which is to say that she didn’t have any evidence against them at all save a single allegation. And she is waiting now for what, the fair application of justice? Due process? Her next hair appointment?
I guess we can also save some indignation for when, over the next few days, stories of the woman’s mental health issues and other reasons emerge to soften her treatment. This will happen, regardless of the DA’s decision on whether to prosecute, and it will be used to lessen the consequences, if any, for what the woman did.
After all, we shouldn’t imperil the future of a woman simply for committing a possible felony that lead to the false imprisonment and public humiliation of four innocent men.
And I suppose that there should be some ire directed at the media, who continue to print the names of the men but not their disgraced accuser, hiding the name of the only real criminal in the story. Her name will come out now, but only after the search engines bring back a few thousand returns on the names of the men.
There should be too, I assume, and yawning again, a fair amount of finger pointing at feminists who pushed for and got these insane rape shield laws, resulting in so many travesties of justice, so many lives ruined.
Truth tell, though, when I read what one of the accused had to say about the matter, I’d rather focus all my anger at him. In fact, I want to put him back in jail myself and throw away the key.
Upon being released, accused Stalin Felipe had this to say:
“Basically, I have no hard feelings toward her. I don’t know why she did it. I don’t know her so I don’t want to say anything bad about her.”
Bottom line is, if this guy wants to give her a pass, why should anyone else give a damn?
And the truth is that this guy is not unlike most men. Even with their neck planted squarely on the guillotine, if a woman’s hand is on the lever, the last words of men will likely as not be, “I’m sorry if I get your blade bloody.”
Men are, it seems, the greatest masochists of all time. Whatever you do, don’t get between a man and an opportunity to excuse a woman for whatever harm she causes to others.
You’ll be road kill in a nanosecond.
And that is precisely what men are becoming. They are like dumb animals that wander onto the super highway of gender politics, unable to grasp the concept of speed and Mac Trucks. After getting hit, the ones who don’t get squashed flat simply limp off to the shoulder, covering their pain with a smile and saying, “Please, ma’am, may I have another?”
Is this blaming the victim? You better believe it. And it is blame they have coming. Truckloads of it.
I am not going to bother asking. ‘where is the outrage?’ It’s like asking ‘where is the free health care?’ There isn’t much point in pursuing fantasies. I’ll leave that to police departments and DA’s. They have become experts at it.
I know that in the minds of many I am supposed to point to the nobility of men’s desires to protect women at all costs. That is why men continue to remain silent while they are destroyed before each other’s eyes. Yeah, that’s the ticket, it’s the nobility.
Normally, I’d expect feminists to find a way to mistake cowardice for nobility. Such delusions seem more their forte. It’s disgusting to see so many men do it. But such behavior has become part of the modern masculine repertoire. And frankly I am growing weary of men, myself included, protesting modern affairs as long as we are leaving jails and courtrooms like grinning weasels, wearing our disgraces like badges of honor.
Where are the Duke three? Why are they not all over this story? Why aren’t they doing anything to help prevent what happened to them from happening to others?
I’ll tell you where they are. They are busy being men. Which is to say that they are doing nothing at best, doing more damage at worst. It is the same place the Hofstra five will be by early next week. And with that they will join the legions of men wrongfully accused, falsely imprisoned, publicly humiliated and shamefully silent.
The only way that this is going to change is if some shepherds emerge to protect a flock that is incapable of, and unwilling to, protect itself.
It is going to be a hard job. Not only do the sheep need to be protected from the wolves now stalking them, they have the unfortunate tendency to collude with the wolves themselves, to seek their approval and attention, and to extend to them blanket exonerations, even as the wolves size them up and make dinner plans.
The same sheep also have the insane habit of pushing each other into the line of fire whenever they get the chance. They then stare at the carnage of their dead brothers in front of them, in the words of Don Henley, “uncomprehendingly, like cows at a passing train.”
It reveals a bitter truth that advocating for men is like trying to extend the lifespan of lemmings.
And so it isn’t just standing guard for the shepherds, it’s remaining on suicide watch the whole time. And it explains why so many efforts for men to organize and make things happen result in exactly squat. It’s easier to heard snakes with a stick.
Better that a few shepherds go wolf hunting on their own than to take the sheep with them, keeping in mind the whole time that the sheep themselves could be sneaking up behind them.
Paul Elam is the Editor-in-Chief of Men’s News Daily and the Publisher of A Voice for Men
Possibly related posts...
Bio available at my website | More from Paul Elam
Stumble It!
Wordpress snowstorm powered by nksnow 
[...] Hope My Generation Isn’t Yawning Jump to Comments Paul Elam’s “Yawning at Hofstra” on Men’s News Daily has so many things wrong with it that I cannot possibly address all of [...]
Joy Watson for Nassau DA
PO Box 741
Mineola, NY 11501
Contact: Dianne Baumert-Moyik 516-903-1107 or Joy Watson (516) 456-1083
For Immediate Release 9/25/09
Statement from Joy Watson, Candidate for Nassau County District Attorney on the Failure of Nassau DA Kathleen Rice to Charge the “False Rape” Accuser Today
(Mineola, NY) — September 25, 2009 — I am outraged that Nassau District Attorney Kathleen Rice has made a side deal with the individual who falsely accused five young men of rape–and that this individual will not be charged. The public, and the falsely accused men, have waited since Tuesday, September 15, 2009, for the Nassau DA to do something. She waits until Friday, September 25 to finally make a decision.
In my view, the current DA is out of line. Rape is an extremely serious allegation and a false claim is highly damaging to those accused–as we have seen in this highly controversial case. Even though she has prosecutorial discretion to let someone walk, in this case the facts are that the accuser lied in a sworn statement and only recanted after a video was produced about the incident. This is not a simple false allegation over a petty theft. Short of accusing someone of murder, there is no more serious charge than rape. The accuser should be charged and the DA should allow our criminal justice system to decide her fate. She is sidestepping necessary input from the probation department and the bench, whose role it is to recommend and decide the appropriate criminal sanctions.
Rice’s pattern of minimizing criminal activity like she did with the Walmart holiday stampede in Valley Stream and her “deferred prosecution agreements” with drug dealers on Terrace Avenue in Hempstead and as used in this case, sends the wrong message to those who commit crime in Nassau County.
———
Watson, a 20-year veteran former Nassau County prosecutor and now State Supreme Court law clerk, is running on the Republican and Conservative lines on November 3. She is the former bureau chief of the Nassau County Sex Offense and Domestic Violence Bureau. She has been endorsed by the Nassau Detectives Association, Freeport PBA, Hempstead PBA and Adjunct Faculty of Nassau. Visit http://www.joywatsonfornassauda.com
.
@72
If you ever become an adult you’ll realize that crime conviction shouldn’t hinge on whether one is thought a slut or a loser. Women usually won’t clearly say or indicate what they want in any situation, why should we expect it to be any different in this one? Most chicks are “subtle” because it helps them be manipulative. This foolishness leads to constant misunderstandings between men and women but in no way means that there is a “rape culture.”
I’m not in the least bit troubled by your claim that men would be admired for having sex with five women while women would be scorned. Men have a much higher sex drive than women so if a man manages to pull this off it is most likely because he wants it and if a woman consents to it it is most likely because she is a pathetic spineless people pleaser. I don’t think either of them have anything to be proud of but It’s quite obvious why they aren’t thought of the same way.
@73
The reasons the male and female are not thought of the same way for the same behavior are for the reasons mentioned above. This is obvious. I do agree with you that it would be better if we could all learn to not engage in stupid sexual exploits. Anyone who does engage in this sort of thing should realize that they may be taken advantage of or do something stupid and regret their behavior. If you do something like this and then accuse some innocent person of a crime to make you feel better about your own stupid behavior you are the scum of the earth.
Haha, goodness, that last paragraph confused me a little. But, I do understand that it’s a very personal subject for many people (believe me, it is for me as well). I suppose insults keep it interesting. Just not overly mature.
Then again, who ever saiding that getting older makes you mature? Bah, humbug.
Just so long as we don’t resort to complete mudslinging here.
“Think about it: there was probably a reason why that girl said those men raped her. Maybe she honestly feels like they did, and that they pressured her into having sex.”
So its still the men’s fault by your logic, or should I say, wild speculation. Even if this were true, based on your female intuitive leaps of insight, honestly feeling like something doesn’t make it true or right or even rational. It sure as hell doesn’t justify it legally. I’m sure plenty of rapist honestly felt like their victim was asking for it.
Your argument to me sounds like this:
Think about it like a feminist: there was certainly a legitimate emotional reason this helpless girl accused evil men of raping her. She intuitively knows that they really did rape her despite her consent, because they forced her into agreeing to be raped to begin with. We will call it Pre-Rape, and thus for hear on out, by decree of feminism, all men are guilty of Pre-Rape, until proven innoscent, by the sole word of the victim/lover, after said rape/intercourse has transpired.
“It may be futile to ask for rude and senseless comments to not get in the way of actual constructive discussions, but one can dream, surely.”
I agree 100% you pansey-ass wimp. Are you scared of words?! Are you!! Are woo scared of the wittle words?! Its okay, I’ll pwotect woo! Just kidding, I do agree, but these issues are emotional for most people, including me, so it is noble, but yet a futile idea. Truth be known, its more fun with the insults and anger. Just is. Doesn’t make it right. Doesn’t make it mature. Just is. I feel like you get a dose of both sides anyways. There is always a couple academics who wade in and stay polite. The diversity of human opinion and human reaction is what makes it interesting.
My opinions on this aren’t fully formed, and I’m not the wisest person out, but here’s my two cents.
If we reverse the situation here, making it into five women with one man, no man would ever report these women to the police as gang rape. What are the reasons for this? A (heterosexual) male would not be viewed as a slut, or any other equivalent term, for being with multiple women at once. If anything, he would be congratulated. He wouldn’t be believed, because women just don’t rape men. Right? Besides, any of them could turn around and say that he put date-rape drugs in their drinks, and they have a pretty good chance of being believed, even considering the circumstances of the group sex.
So, from this, I must conclude that there definitely exists a “rape culture”, of male raping female, female is always believed, etc. However, how can we can conlude that the dogma that “a woman never lies” is beneficial to her at all?
Yes, in the individual situation, they avoid the humiliation of having others find out that they (god forbid) engage in, and enjoy, group sex. The potential for humiliation in the first place stems from (I believe) gender stereotype and just centuries of the taboo surrounding sex, but I won’t get into that. These days, I believe that if you can’t bear to have -anyone- know about it, perhaps you shouldn’t be doing it – and that applies to both sexes.
But for women as a whole, it’s a negative thing, because it gives far too many other women an unwarranted way of getting out of shame that is really their own damned fault. It gives the individual the power of gender stereotype to get out of their own sticky situations – whether they escape or not, it’s still feeding -a- stereotype, which is of course detrimental to any concept of gender egalitarianism. Like I said, don’t have group sex if you don’t want others to know. C’mon, you just slept with five men who are probably pretty stoked about it and are probably tweeting or facebooking about it. What part of this did you possibly think could remain secret? It’s exploitation of your own gender to use rape culture to avoid the shame of your own naivety.
Ugh, you have no idea how much the foolishness of this woman irritates me. But moving on.
Clearly, the fact that this woman had no qualms (at first) about accusing the men of rape, and yet I am against the entire concept of group sex, shows that her actions do not represent an entire female culture of victimisation.
Similarly, the fact that many men do indeed rape women, but all men posting here are (I trust) disgusted by the notion of taking advantage of anyone in that way, shows that the actions of one rapist does not represent an entire male culture of rape, and what have you. Nor does the good behaviour of the males here represent an entire male culture of charming, respectful men who wouldn’t dare take advantage of a woman.
In other words, we’re all individuals with our own minds. If we could all learn to a. Not engage in stupid sexual exploits and b. Stop using the prejudices and stereotypes of our gender to cover up or justify said sexual exploits, then perhaps a few of these situations could be avoided.
My last point is that while I understand that this is a heated debate, I’m not overly impressed with how rude some posters have been with their comments, on both “sides”. I’m about half the age of most posters here, and can’t help but think that if this is how the “wise” older generations choose to sort out their gender issues, then we’re all doomed.
It may be futile to ask for rude and senseless comments to not get in the way of actual constructive discussions, but one can dream, surely.
I’m pointing again to the “rape culture” article and encouraging people to actually read it instead of making assumptions based on the title. Because the general point of the article is this: it’s a Catch-22 for both parties.
If a woman doesn’t say “no,” she’s a slut, so what it really means is that the guy (guys, in this case) asking clearly just needs to put more effort in to seducing her so she can acquiesce without damaging her reputation (see quote below).
Conversely, the guy is expected to keep pushing because otherwise he’s a loser who can’t find a way to get into the woman’s pants and furthermore, because of the above mentioned woman-must-say-no-then-yes thing, how is HE supposed to know if this is a serious ‘no’ or a coy one?
So yes, we do live in a rape culture. The cultural expectations imposed on both men and women set them up for rape. Women are expected to say “no” when they mean “no” and “no” when they mean “yes” and men are expected to be able to tell the two apart. That’s not fair to anyone and it needs to change.
And we haven’t even addressed the subject of male rape which has huge issues and stigmas all its own.
Relevant quote: That’s legal and media speak for admitting she cheapened herself by taking on five men willingly on a men’s room floor and lied about it later out of what little capacity for shame she had.
Other bothersome thing about this: If a guy managed to have sex with five women at once, he wouldn’t stop bragging for the next month and a half. When a woman does the same with men, she’s “cheapened herself.”
you got me on the name calling, congratulations. You can go ahead and call me a misogynist. I couldn’t care less if you are a female or if you consider yourself a feminist. Neither of those things matter. You are using the shaming tactics, although I’ve lost the interest in explaining exactly how so I’m just referring you to google.
You have nothing. I threw out a little bit of noise and you abandoned the topic to focus on that. There is no reason to believe that the guys did anything illegal. The facts are that it is the guys and her against her. That’s all there is. What is further investigation going to uncover? If she is questioned further she may change her story again and that will further demonstrate her inconsistency. So what?
She was a hooker? She solicited sex? Did they pay her? No?
@ 66
“the other broad with the big imagination” . . . ?
Nice comeback, Jon! I’m sure everyone is very impressed by your clever and mature name-calling on public forums!
I did google ’shame tactics,’ by the way. And I laughed. Mostly at your analysis of my post and how my assertion that the case needs to be fully investigated somehow (according to you) qualifies me as having a ‘big imagination,’ and therefor requires me to google ’shame tactics.’
I’m sorry, Jon, but I’m truly not the dim one here. I’m actually looking at the facts.
By the way, don’t you think it’s a little screwed up that you immediately assumed I’m a feminist (and a female) simply because I believe that the girl who made the rape claim should explain where she’s coming from? Thanks for that. Does that mean I get to call you a misogynist for calling me a broad?
“you have absolutely nothing” in no way contradicts “nobody can ever know for sure” You have to PROVE guilt. What you imagine could’ve happened means nothing. I couldn’t care less how she feels. I also don’t care why she made the accusations, only whether or not they are true. My comment about imagination is directly related to what I said in comment 16 to the other broad with a big imagination.
I think the vast majority of feminists are just easily manipulated and dim.
google “shaming tactics”
@64
Hey Jon,
I think I have a pretty substantial case, actually. In fact, you prove to me the one misled: you said, “you are right that nobody can ever know for sure,” and then contradicted yourself by telling me I have “absolutely nothing.” Go figure.
I’m not disagreeing with you, by the way, when you say that “nobody should ever go to jail over imaginary crimes.” Did I ever even vaguely elude to that? I don’t think so. What I was trying to say, and think I articulated pretty clearly, is that this situation should be looked into and examined as to why this girl made these claims. Maybe she was trying to make one of them look bad because she had some sort of personal vendetta against them- – in which case, it IS her fault. Or maybe she honestly felt that she was raped because she was coerced into have sex by five boys and was too scared to say no. In which case, someone needs to talk to both her and those boys and let them know what is and isn’t okay when it comes to sexual encounters.
Who knows. Neither you nor I will ever know what happened exactly, but I do think it is important to figure out why she made the claim that she did. And that’s ALL i’m saying.
By the way. You should rethink that statement you made about me being ‘just another feminist who expects us to respond to the nonsense she imagines.” Homogenizing people isn’t very nice. It’s not too intelligent, either. If you actually think all feminists are evil lesbian man-haters, which I’m getting a feeling you do, you’ve really got some research to do. Patriarchy isn’t the enemy; ignorance is. And unfortunately, jon, your comment was pretty damn ignorant.
@61
you are as ridiculous as ageb. You have absolutely nothing. The female has 2 different stories and the males all have the same story. You are yet another feminist who expects us to respond to the nonsense she imagines. NOBODY SHOULD EVER GO TO JAIL OVER IMAGINARY CRIMES. She changed her story and now says it was consensual. She is responsible for her actions. The reason she said they raped her is almost certainly that she did something she shouldn’t have and didn’t want to accept that it was her own fault. How childish. You are right that nobody can ever know for sure. That is why it is important to be careful of the company you keep and where you keep it. duh.
My response to the Amanda Hess piece and ensuing discussion:
Lets separate the forest from the trees. The root problems here aren’t “rape culture” or false accusations.
The real problem is represented by a simple catch-phrase: “murder and rape.” The real issue is that rape ain’t exactly murder. Not even close. Sorry, girls, including to my otherwise dear co-worker who recently voiced that rape is worse than murder: just because it happens to you more than us guys doesn’t make it a worse crime than it really is.
To be sure, rape CAN be a serious crime. For instance, rape of a straight guy by a fellow-guy is an unnatural and horrible and despicable act. It involves the insertion of one body part into another body part where it is clearly both not intended to go and where such body part is not welcomed by the recipient.
The very horribleness of guy-on-guy rape is what keeps most of us guys from a life of crime, which usually leads to more money and – as all of us guys know by now – both as a result of the crimes and the glam that comes with being the “bad-boy,” leads to more girls.
Rape is also a serious crime when involves the spread of disease, and can certainly be a serious crime when it results in an unwelcome pregnancy. And to be sure, rape is often accompanied by other serious crimes, such as murder and mayhem.
But whether something is a truly serious crime shouldn’t merely depend upon who is doing it. Rape, of course, does. Few women in the United States would deny themselves the opportunity to have Derek Jeter insert his penis in their vagina, not even knowing anything about Derek Jeter’s penis, and yet if another guy, possibly with a nicer penis and better cocksmanship, does the same thing without the consent of the girl, or even with her consent but falsely claiming he is Derek Jeter, he faces decades in prison.
In contrast to rape, now matter how much I adore, revere, often fuck, have dated, sex workers, and no matter how much I even want to someday marry a sex worker (contrary to the theory of the misguided girls that think guys hate sex workers), I wouldn’t even want the likes of Carmen Luvana to cut off my arm, or going all Lorena Bobbitt on me. That’s the difference between rape and mayhem – with mayhem, the act is virtually always a bad thing.
And, as vividly demonstrated by the Hofstra case, where the only “crime” these guys apparently committed was not inviting accuser Ndonye to breakfast the next morning, a serious crime isn’t something that could just as easily be the fantasy of a lifetime fulfilled. Especially when that fantasy of a lifetime is actually being forcibly raped. It can even be rape if the woman enjoys getting raped, as some surely have.
This is not to say rape shouldn’t be illegal. After all, guys, think about how disgusting it would be if a fat chick tied you down against your will, planted her smelly, hairy, yeasty pussy on your face, and kept gagging you with her filthy labia and engorged penis-like clit. Such a thing CAN’T be legal.
Personally, I abhor rape – even borderline, getting-a-girl-in-bed-by-claiming-to-be-Derek Jeter rape. OK, maybe that’s not so bad, but most rape is. I don’t want to see it happen to anyone, girl or guy. Its makes girls hate guys, its wrong, its cheating, and it denigrates the accomplishments of guys like me who can occasionally get hot chicks in bed voluntarily. And with hot 19 year-olds only a few phone calls, $200, and a couple of hours away courtesy of sites like Craigslist, raping is being cheap. In fact, in effect, its stealing.
A lot of guys don’t really understand why women consider rape so horrible. It sometimes looks to some of us like running over to console a toddler who just fell or knocked its head against something but didn’t think to start crying until everyone starts coddling. And even some of us thinks rape is a lot worse than it really is by putting ourselves into the woman’s shoes, but when we do so, we really, in effect, put our asses into the woman’s pussy, which makes it seem worse than it is, since its worse to fuck our asses – they aren’t for penis insertion, but pussies are. In fact, the overwhelming majority of the time, women quite like it when penises go in them – it makes them juicy, and throb in a good way.
What really drives the cult of rape, if not its “culture” as described by Amanda Hess, is that rape is about that favorite obsession of women, to wit: power. Of course, it isn’t about power for the rapists, just to the victim, because it shatters the illusion of power women carry with them. The true power of penis-worthy women emanates from between their legs – the limits they place on access to their vaginas, and the shortage of attractive women, is what keeps us paying attention to them, paying for their lifestyles, paying them cash, and coddling them like toddlers. Most attractive women considers only the most elite males truly worthy of their time and affections, and consider themselves the power equivalent of professional athletes, billionaires, and rock stars. Upon being raped, they suddenly realize that any old dreg in a dark parking garage has power of them, too, and the illusion is shattered. Women hate rape because its a reality check.
This isn’t just DirkJohanson speaking. The world, or at least any reader of The Balls Monologues, now expects a piece like this by me. Rather, other guys say things like this to me all the time – they bring up the subject, out of thin air. We are beginning to accurately assess rape.
By complaining about everything and anything under the sun for more than four decades about guys, including through what I call sperm libel (false, generalized statements about guys such as saying that we hate sex workers), by discarding equal protection under the law for empowerment, by using every trivial slight to attack everything guys do and attempt to garner the fruits of our labor through spurious lawsuit and claims, women have lost the issue of rape – ironically, perhaps the singlemost pro-woman issue guys felt most strongly about long before the Steinems and Dworkins and Ciccones came along. We used to take womens’ words for it that rape was horrible, but ladies, you’re credibility is shot now, not just because of Ndonye the Duke case, and other false accusers, but because of so much of what you’ve said in the past four decades.
So, society needs to come up with a new catchphrase to characterize serious crime. I propose “murder and mayhem”- it even alliterates.
Mayhem. Now that’s a serious crime!
“Clearly,” he said, “I think the cell phone was taken to lure her away from the crowd to do her harm.”
Clearly + in my opinion ???
Lured???
This fellow needs a change in scenery.
Clearly, I think he can no longer swim strongly enough to rise above the bullshit.
He just isn’t up for the job. A real man would take responsibility for his error in judgment and seek remediation and honour.
Consider this
You find a man in women’s washroom just hanging around.
You find a woman in a men’s washroom just hanging around.
You find a woman in a women’s washroom just hanging around.
You find a man in a man’s washroom just hanging around.
Four men to one woman.
Four women to one man.
ideology divorced from technology breeds illusion.
… Okay, Big_M, I think I follow that you are angry and concerned with the lack of what you consider to be logic in feminist discourse. But, how do you reconcile the following two statements plucked from your emotional rant with your apparent disdain for unfair double standards? To wit:
“Even if they did “train” her, it’s not their fault that this girl willing whored herself out. So, don’t blame the guys for this girl’s bad choice of being a slut.”
“Or is that another of those stupid male stereotype labels that man-hating feminists like to put on men who enjoy sex?”
… No, no, don’t trouble yourself with another explanation, sir (I worry about your blood pressure). I suspect one might take away from your wise words that enraged, stream-of-consciousness diatribes should still be read through before posting – otherwise we might glean, through your careless inclusion of contradictions (and in such close quarters too!), the underlying beliefs that colour your motives.
Thanks for the chuckles, indeed.
Ageb Says:
September 20th, 2009 at 4:39 am
Any man who feels threatened by feminism, and thinks all feminists are man haters, are just as pathetic as the women who falsely accuse innocent men of rape.
Feminism doesn’t threaten me. It out and out attacks me. It created a legal system that reduces me to nothing more than an economic tool. It slanders and libels me. It tries to brainwash me. It shames me for being nothing more than a male.
Pathetic is a strong word to toss around. As much as I hate feminist, I hardly consider them pathetic. They are too dangerous to just dismiss. I wonder if you would use that same word in a face to face conversation. I wonder if you would feel as superior and rightous without having a keyboard and monitor to hide behind. Pathetic indeed.
My issue is that no one actually knows what happened that night, and because all the charges are dropped, no one is probably going to actually look into it and find out.
Think about it: there was probably a reason why that girl said those men raped her. Maybe she honestly feels like they did, and that they pressured her into having sex. Maybe she said yes, which could be considered ‘consensual,’ but only after she was egged on by those five males to say yes, and felt she had no other way out. And then perhaps she was pressured to change her mind later when she was told by police that technically she gave consent, even if the consent was under pressure (which actually doesn’t count as consent).
Maybe none of that happened, and it was entirely consensual. Who knows. What i’m saying, though, is that people need to find out what happened before she can jump to conclusions about the men or the girl.
There WAS a reason why she said they raped her. And think about it: If there were five men, she must have had a damn good reason to say something. That’s five stories against her one story. If police questioned those five guys and all their stories were entirely consistent, down to the moment of consent, they’d question her validity. And obviously, she’d realize that before deciding to ‘cry rape’ as a lot of you guys are suggesting.
So honestly, take a step back and look at the story. You don’t know what actually happened, and all these stupid attacks on feminists and women in favor of ’slut culture’ (talk about double standards, guys) just make a lot of you look like players in that dreaded ‘rape culture’ you’re all making fun of.
@Ageb
What about communism , feminism, fascism etc. Does your analogy apply there also?
@ armyvet
So when did she lie? When she made the report, or when she recanted it?
This is a perfect example of the lasting negative impact of a false allegation. Once the finger has been pointed, many people will believe it is true, regardless of exoneration and even regardless of the accuser turning the pointed finger toward herself.
Maybe these cheap guys don’t care about her “lies” because they really did rape her.
Any man who feels threatened by feminism, and thinks all feminists are man haters, are just as pathetic as the women who falsely accuse innocent men of rape.
@ Joy Watson
“Watson, a 20-year veteran former Nassau County prosecutor and now State Supreme Court law clerk, is running on the Republican and Conservative lines on November 3. She is the former bureau chief of the Nassau County Sex Offense and Domestic Violence Bureau. Visit http://www.joywatsonfornassauda.com.”
That’s one for the ages. A female candidate for prosecutor dares to defy the “conventional wiadon”. Let’s hope that your enemies don’t take the low road and try to dig dirt on you to feed to the media.
A female candidate for mayor of our state capital just withdrew, even she had won the nomination” because the dirt they dug up on her.
Update: She is sitll on the race
Annapolis mayoral candidate still in race
Baltimore Sun – Nicole Fuller – ?47 minutes ago?
The Annapolis mayoral candidate, whose spokesperson announced her withdrawal from the race Friday amid revelations …
Pierre withdraws from mayoral race Arundel Muckraker
Pierre abandons race after legal history surfaces Annapolis Capital
Annapolis mayoral hopeful bows out Baltimore Sun
all 14 news articles »Email this story
We need a law that says “knowingly making false accusation of ANY crime shall carry the mandatory incarceration penalty of the crime alleged.” THIS would restore some justice to our current INjustice-system. We also need to educate folks that the law deals in technicalities, and that words mean things, no matter what is being “felt.”
@52
It is amazing how some folks seem to think that their sympathy matters. What possible difference could my sympathy make? I wouldn’t be proud of myself if I did what they did but that has nothing to do with any conversation about whether or not a crime was committed.
Statement from Joy Watson, Candidate for Nassau County District Attorney on the False Rape Claim at Hofstra University
(Mineola, NY) — September 19, 2009 – “In the aftermath of the falsely reported Hofstra rape incident, the accuser must be immediately charged,” said Joy Watson.
“Whether or not there are circumstances in her background warranting leniency is a matter to be considered in structuring an appropriate disposition or sentence. The circumstances should not prevent the Nassau District Attorney from holding the false accuser accountable. Her delay is a signal to the public that such acts are tolerated in Nassau County.
There is no question that a crime was committed here. There is no question who committed the crime. These young men had their reputations and lives negatively impacted by these false allegations. A delay can only be seen as an injustice to these young men or a ploy to get more news coverage for the District Attorney. In either case, justice is not being served. The five young men who were falsely accused deserve nothing less that a district attorney who will stand up to protect their rights.
The delay also smacks of a publicity grab at justices’ expense, as we are six weeks from the November 3 election. I think the public can see right through our current District Attorney and see where her priorities lie,” Watson added.
———
Watson, a 20-year veteran former Nassau County prosecutor and now State Supreme Court law clerk, is running on the Republican and Conservative lines on November 3. She is the former bureau chief of the Nassau County Sex Offense and Domestic Violence Bureau. Visit http://www.joywatsonfornassauda.com.
“I have trouble finding much sympathy for these guys, because i’m assuming that the girl was drunk/impaired, and taking advantage of someone in that condition is just plain wrong.”
You ASSUME she was drunk? What about FACTS?
Wow, I thought I was reading something on MEN’S News Daily, not on Oprah. Having already had one very mild comment not make it past the censors here, I expect this one also might not, but I feel compelled to make it anyway.
Replacing law with whether or not one feels sympathy for the accused is the ultimate in feminist expression. The issue here is not whether what was done was admirable or the sort of thing which elicits “sympathy”, but whether or not it was a CRIMINAL action.
In the aftermath of the Duke non-rape debacle, many people took the stand that “well, they might not be guilty of ‘rape’, but they certainly must be guilty of something, so they still need to be punished.” I see a load of that same kind of mentality expressed here.
These 5 “young men” (barely), most of them not yet out of their teens, raised in a culture which shoves sex in their faces 24×7x365, were apparently invited by an attractive young woman to engage in what the culture at large has taught them is the peak of all human experiences – sex. We certainly know their names and ages, but we know little else about these guys. How many of them were raised by single mothers? How many of them have had absolutely no moral guidance in their lives other than the totally corrupt public education system? How many of them actually did have sex with the woman? A couple of them claim that they didn’t, and it is quite possible that the one who saved their lives by recording it didn’t either.
Yes, all these so-called “good moral Christians” here are stampeding to the rock pile to stone these guys. Each little detail of this woman’s lies seems to have to be demolished individually, instead of looking at the fact that most of the story was a lie and tossing it out in whole and then constructing what really happened one fact at a time.
Once again, one of the few intelligent comments made in this thread –
You ASSUME she was drunk? What about FACTS?
Hey, they don’t need no steenkeeng facts, they have their bigotry!
Unfortunately, one aspect of the poorly-named “rape culture” narrative is true – that we live in cultural denial of women’s sexuality and sexual agency. The entire concept that a young woman might have found the prospect of several young men wanting her to be quite exciting and thrilling will not be allowed in the discussion at all. Both the conservative traditionalists and the “rape culture” narrativists only allow one role for the woman – that of victim – and one role for the young men involved – that of “abuser”, perpetrator, victimizer.
It is utterly insane to castigate 5 young men for acting in a way that is somewhat consistent with the cultural norms they have been taught, and lay all of the blame squarely on them while keeping not only the actions and role of the woman invisible, but actively denying the cultural influences which are completely devoid of the high-horse morality being preached here. These are not your sons, and there may be men here who would have taught their own sons better values, but were prevented from doing so by the family courts.
Whether the behavior of these guys was immoral, immature, unwise, or just plain stupid is not the issue. The issue is – was it criminal?
Anyone who endorses the treatment they received is advocating criminal penalties for violating that person’s moral value system. And, that value system is based on a fundamental denial of reality – that women cannot be anything but victims, and if they do something bad then some man must be blamed for it.
When the day comes that one of these people gets thrown under the bus in the same manner, I am sure that they will find as little “sympathy” for their situation as they have for others, and will undoubtedly be bewildered that such is the case.
On the subject of the male sex drive, just take a look around you right now. Anything and everything there, including you, would not be there were it not for men having a very basic need for sex, roughly on par with a woman’s need for shelter.
The dawn of civilization itself was that same instant when the male sex drive was channeled to benefit society by way of the family. Woman gives man his own children, and he will do anything and everything for her and them, even die for them. Works great for everyone.
Except now, in the age of government control over everything, men are expected to do all of that for nothing, save whatever casual sex he can muster on a bathroom floor along with four other guys, then hoping he doesn’t get arrested and raped in prison because the entitled woman feels remorseful afterward. Alas, to expect otherwise in a matriarchal feminist jurisprudence based society such as ours is absurd.