On Spreading a Meme…
Periodically, there will be a sudden flaring. A burning out if you will. A prominent MRA will throw up his (or, in some cases, her) hands and say “Screw it, this is going nowhere…what a bunch of whining do nothings!”.
And with a flourish, that MRA disappears from the scene. Sometimes even for good.
What that person is typically missing is the viral nature of the men’s rights movement. We do not lead. We do not tell the “masses” what to think… This is not a top down organization, if “organization” as a term even remotely applies.
We are not a shaper, a mover, a shaker, or any other kind of “power” in the sense that we can effect real change ourselves.
It is the failure to recognize this blunt fact that some MRA’s have trouble coming to grips with.
…What we do is refuse to allow people to be silenced…
In a relatively well known essay, another prominent MRA has described us as people who are simply “telling [society] what time it is”. I personally agree, with a caveat. In knowing the time before others, we can shape the “message”…the spin, as it were, on the issue.
I know, it’s crass. But it’s the truth. We have naught but the ability to frame an argument, in the hopes of public support. We cannot effect direct change without massive expenditures for minimum return.
But, like the rocket scientists we all wanted to be until we found out how mind-numbingly boring it would be, we can effect change in the long term. Small course changes amount to big corrections over time. We can frame the debate on OUR terms, if we start now, and persist.
In fact, we should press that agenda at every turn.
Want proof this is necessary, and effective?
Look at Feminism. What did they do? Effect change directly? No, they manipulated public opinion through various channels, until the changes they desired could be supported through public sentiment (however manufactured). It must also be noted that they shut down opposition vehemently, and continue to try to do so to this day…at the expense of actual equality it seems…
These lessons are not meant to be lost, but modified. We have no need to lie, or cruelly manipulate, like feminists have done for decades. But we need to frame the debate in terms of men, and maleness, as being essentially, and inherently, valuable.
The “worst” part about a false accusation of rape is NOT, for instance, any supposed “chilling effect” on “real victims”…that detracts from (hell, completely ignores) the REAL victim of false accusation…namely, the guy. Not allowing ANYONE, be it a “friendly” person or not, to frame this type of issue in this way without first and foremost acknowledging the hell it puts a man through is, I think, the first thing MRA’s should have in mind.
By that, I mean that denigrating men, even through omission or inference, cannot, and should not, be tolerated.
Again, for proof look to feminist behaviour.
“Oppression Olympics” ring a bell? How about shaming language meant to shut men up mid-complaint? “Poor white male” comments ever get thrown your way?
Simultaneously controlling both the debate and the language, while suppressing dissenting voices, was the formula Feminism followed for success. Our job as MRA’s is merely the job of publicizing that fact, and exposing the government, certainly various swaths thereof at best, as the massive cynical man-hating parasite it really is, feeding from such a hateful ideology…
It really is that simple. And that complicated.
Getting heard is not easy these days, and lack of credibility will lose you a ton of public respect…hey, just ask me, I’ll tell you.
It takes diligence, and a focused effort..but really, only sporadically.
Want to be an effective MRA? Want to effect real change? In a hurry? Here’s how. Go to www.standyourground.com (for simplicity’s sake), post on a thread in the introductions section, and list your skills. What do you do for a job, what do you like to do for a hobby. What city you live in. Make yourself available for some small labour projects. I understand about the protesting and the embarrassment thing…if you’re not into it, no one’s going to twist your arm.
Write articles, if you can write. I do a magazine…send an article in for consideration. Do research for someone if he can write, but can’t research. Put yourself on a mailing list (try SYG again…why not?) and offer to email your representatives with questions. Are you an artist? Make some art…we can always use cultural pieces regarding men’s issues…hell, it’sactually a glaring deficiency, so if you can, please do! Know how to crunch numbers? Compile data for the poor souls like me whose eyes cross immediately upon laying them on a multi page spreadsheet…
Many of you do this already. Keep doing it, or if you get bored, move on to something else for a while…come back when you feel ready for it again.
This is a grassroots movement here people. Try not to forget that. All we need do, is let the most men know as we possibly can, that it’s OK to feel however they feel, that it’s OK to think certain aspects of society are bull, that men deserve equal rights, and that anyone who takes issue with this idea is the jerk, not the person advocating for it. The important thing is, to do the absolute best job of it we can, and put our best argument as far forward as we can.
When the term “mens rights advocate/activist” no longer confuses, we will have won. And the best part is, to arrive there, all we need do is tell the truth. And no, it doesn’t have to be a full time job…as long as the job gets done…you know?
Thanks for Listening
| More from Factory
Stumble It!
October 6th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
“And with a flourish, that MRA disappears from the scene”
More often, it fades away. I have seen a couple of dozen start up, be active for a while, often only a few months and then disappear as quickly as they appeared. I even had several ask me if Shattered Men would do this too. It is still here even after several attempts to destroy it. Our website had a dozen or two pages when someone hacked into it and deleted it, now it has over 1,000 pages. Our interactive group was destroyed on April 1st a couple of years ago. When I called our leadership, they at first thought it was an April fool’s joke but my voice assured them it was not. We were up and running again within an hour and on Oct 31st, we will celebrate our tenth anniversary.
One reason many fade so quickly is as you have stated, “We are not a shaper, a mover, a shaker, or any other kind of “power” in the sense that we can effect real change ourselves” To often, we may think we can write one or two letters and open the eyes of the public and see instant changes. Often we may not even think we are not even making a difference but we have to keep trying. Although I have seldom gotten recognition from any major organizations, I have gotten them from those it means the most….when people have contacted us and said, “I am a life that was changed” and they tell me how they were about to take their own life but found they were not alone!. My advice to those who feel like they have lost everything to a corrupt system, become A Formidable Enemy!
http://shatterdmen.com/Enemy.htm
October 6th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
This isn’t the first article by an MRA who wants a men’s movement comparable to the feminist movement. I’ve been seeing this idea promoted by a few people during the entire couple of decades that I’ve been aware of them. A couple of problems exist in relation to this idea, including a well-defined purpose. In the current article, it seems the only purpose is to build an organization and play politics. To what end?
The backlash against feminism has been around for a while. I sometimes wonder if some MRA:s missed it? Feminism has and continues to fail politically all over the world. The legacy of the feminist age is a bit multi-faceted, but the issues that need to be addressed are now rooted in political corruption, not the clout of the feminist movement.
Maybe I’m just telling time, but quite often – that’s good to know.
October 7th, 2009 at 4:13 am
The problem with the grassroots strategy is that it typically takes someone mainstream to acknowledge it before that strategy gets more widely adopted. To be honest, the men’s movement needs to move past that stage and begin addressing issues that affect boys and men in the larger political and social arena. The focus cannot simply be challenging feminism as it will lead to a movement that never grows and it will lead to men’s movement versions of people who make absurd claims and simply launch into anyone who does not agree with their opinions.
The greater concern needs to be for boys and men, and that honestly cannot be done by creating a movement that is the mirror of feminism. The focus needs to be far less about playing politics or sticking it to feminists, primarily because feminists are already entrenched in their power structure and can better exploit the political power they have than those who are struggling to achieve acknowledgment.
October 7th, 2009 at 4:28 am
@ Roger
Interesting. I read almost the opposite of what you did into this article. Or maybe I am just reading you wrong.
Factory doesn’t seem to promote the idea of organization and politics as much as he acknowledges the lack of both in substance and the lack of either in necessity. I tend to agree with him.
I won’t be one of those that burn out on “the movement” because I don’t look for a movement in any tangible sense.
I like being an MRA because I like shooting fish in a barrel, intellectually speaking. To me it is fun to assail feminism simply because it is, at once, as weak and porous as it is universally accepted.
I don’t say that to make light of its often deadly consequences, even as they are now fostered by corrupt government. It is just that it provides so many opportunities for me to do what most writers love to do.
Shake people up a little and make them think.
I am perfectly OK with the idea that I have to settle for doing that just a handful of people at a time.
October 7th, 2009 at 5:29 am
The problem isnt even nor ever was feminism but femaleism of which as many males as females are complicit perpetuators.
Hence the mens movement appropriately being a loosely defined body of anti-misandric and anti-femaleist men and women of varying political persuassion.
October 7th, 2009 at 7:00 am
@ Paul Elam,
Because you stated it so well, I won’t write my difference of opinion with Roger. Even if something is obvious, it needs to hammered in so it remains in public awarenes. Feminism is fading from newspaper pages. But it has morphed more insidiously into editorial control of both electronic and printed media. Quote from “Factory”
Look at Feminism. What did they do? Effect change directly? No, they manipulated public opinion through various channels, until the changes they desired could be supported through public sentiment (however manufactured). It must also be noted that they shut down opposition vehemently, and continue to try to do so to this day…at the expense of actual equality it seems…
The ridicule and ostracism for those who spoke on behalf of fathers/husbans was in full force some 30 years ago when I became active. I can’t count the times I wanted to give up since the isolation
was so intense and opposition so fierce. Maybe MRA won’t achive a better world in our lifetime. But if one takes a lesson from history, some have fought hundreds of years and somehow the next generation has had some improvement.
October 7th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Feminism is a toxin that has seeped below the surface. It is nowhere to be seen (and thus is difficult to directly engage), but it still underpins the latticework of anti-male laws and policies that support women at men’s expense. Even after feminism is “dead,” its hateful artifacts will have to be actively dismantled in order to remove its lingering and still baleful effects, and pave the way for true gender equity and reconciliation.
As for MRA’s, perhaps it is only our duty to keep telling the truth, “The Empress has NO CLOTHES!” At some point, the general mass of society will turn and ask, “Yeah. What’s been going on here?!”
Thank goodness for the internet!
October 7th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Roger: “This isn’t the first article by an MRA who wants a men’s movement comparable to the feminist movement.”
I do not want a movement comparable to feminism, I want to look at their tactics, and what worked, and why, and apply it to ourselves. We have been sitting around bitching at each other for 15+ years (ok, more for many)…how’s that working out for you? Happy with all the change that’s come about?
Actually, I am. But I think it’s time for the next level. If you have a better idea for how to get there, I’d like to hear it. I’m sincere about that by the way. I read your work quite a bit.
Shatteredmen: “More often, it fades away. I have seen a couple of dozen start up, be active for a while, often only a few months and then disappear as quickly as they appeared.”
Which is why I advocate grouping rather tightly around a few well travelled spots. Sites like MND have been quietly gathering up as much of the writing talent available in the MRM for a reason…
This whole thing is about to explode. It’s a powder keg out there…the confluence of the economy, rising taxes, lowered standard of living, and aging population is going to spell bad things for the Marxists.
Contributing one well-researched and thought out article a month to a large site is worth a lot, and will only grow in value as the quality and trustworthiness rise.
Toysoldier gets it in one: “To be honest, the men’s movement needs to move past that stage and begin addressing issues that affect boys and men in the larger political and social arena.”
Exactly!! Ding ding ding!
The counter feminist aspect of the MRM exists primarily as the slap in the face to bring society out of it’s collective hysterics. It is meant to illustrate that our respective societies have been misled, and these lies have caused massive social damage.
Showing the public what that social damage is should be our prime consideration now. Showing it clearly, and believably, and personally connecting with the audience, is of prime importance. The MRM has some serious PR work ahead of itself it seems.
I suggest we start with branding. Think about it.
Paul: ” It is just that it provides so many opportunities for me to do what most writers love to do.
Shake people up a little and make them think.”
I agree with your sentiment. But writers, like all artists, crave a large appreciation…audience if you will. Would you rather write for your family and their 6 buddies, or have a bestseller that changes society?
Pretty easy answer, I think. And I’m a Pisces, and therefore don’t care about money
.
Mr. K: “Maybe MRA won’t achive a better world in our lifetime. But if one takes a lesson from history, some have fought hundreds of years and somehow the next generation has had some improvement.”
I think we’re working on a MUCH shorter timeline than you think. All it takes is the right nudge.
And society is positively ACHING for that nudge.
Jay R: “Feminism is a toxin that has seeped below the surface. It is nowhere to be seen (and thus is difficult to directly engage), but it still underpins the latticework of anti-male laws and policies that support women at men’s expense.”
Feminism as a word is considered a swear by most people nowadays, a reputation soundly earned. I agree with you. So do a lot of other guys (and some girls). Those hateful artifacts happen to be the main issues we as MRA’s are trying to correct.
But we need not continue to pound on the feminist angle. Just give it a tap every once in a while… You know, talk about boys and education, the lack of opportunity boys have, etc. Then tap on feminism by mocking the idea that somehow the “wage gap” makes it OK to hamstring a generation or two of boys, and how much you’d have to hate your little boys to agree with that.
Start framing things in male terms, how it affects HIM, how HE is unfairly punished, and how HE is going to suffer. Humanize the male, personalize the male side of stories, ask how it affects him and if it’s fair…
We’ve already shown feminism to be a hate movement, we have shown the links from one issue to the other and how feminism relates. Now we have to distill the message for public consumption, and simultaneously develop expertise in men’s issues.
One step at a time…it’s a long uphill battle, everyone here knows that..
I just think it’s time we drove instead of walking.
October 8th, 2009 at 4:05 am
Factory: “I do not want a movement comparable to feminism, I want to look at their tactics, and what worked, and why, and apply it to ourselves.”
Thus the confusion I guess. Your response seems to beg the question: How would that not lead to an comparable result? Their tactics involved organization. So how do you apply organizational tactics without organizing? Their tactics involved politics. How to you do that without playing politics?
I think the answer is that the circumstances are so completely different that I don’t see any success coming from it – exactly as it has been all along.
The only tactics that have gotten attention were borrowed from Green Peace rather than the feminists.
October 8th, 2009 at 7:30 am
@ Factory
Screaming out loud laughing here. You do hit the nail on the head in many ways, and in doing so illustrate. as is evidenced in this thread, some of the difficulties in intended organization regarding the MRM.
One of the things that cripples us is a lack of ability to even seek concensus, much less find it. Take a look at through some of the many good articles on this site and then read through the comment sections. What you will find on many of them amounts to nit picking at the details to the point that the big picture gets lost.
Most of us do it. Pelle Billing found that out with one of his first pieces. He suggested, rather tacitly mind you, of a dialogue with feminists. We ripped him to shreds, lol! He is a good man with pretty thick skin so in the end it didn’t matter. But it was a good example of what most all of us do, which is to divide with each other over largely insignificant and inconsequential matters.
It is as though there is a standard that every word of every work must pass muster with every MRA or we come out of the woodwork and dilute the whole message with argumentative minutia. It is happening on this thread as we speak. And all of us are contributors.
So for me it is just a matter of ignoring all that, understanding that we don’t have a unified voice and pushing on with the core of the message…men’s rights.
I agree with your assessment that current conditions favor a rapid expansion of those voices, but I think they will be as splintered and disparate as they have always been. Largely because we collectively suffer from one aspect of masculinity that, despite my distaste for stereotypes, appears to be true.
Most of us want to be the guy that is right
And we spend more energy on that than we do pushing each others voices into the public domain. That is what makes men like Mike Lasalle such a rarity. He set up a publication of varied voices and supports all of them unless they pose a threat to everyone else’s voice.
You are right, as a writer, my ego craves a larger appreciation. But this is sketchy territory for writers of this genre. In most cases, IMO, those who write on this topic do so with the understanding that mass media is likely not in their future. So I think most of us do it because we are driven toward social justice.
And I think that is a good path. When society gets ready to embrace the MRM message, there will be a veritable Library of Congress of that message available here and elsewhere on the internet.
October 8th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Paul,
I think your info about the Italian group was interesting. They did a nice job of defining their purpose and summarizing their views. Quite realistic in their thinking it seemed to me. No long-winded philosophy, no personally invented new-speak – just a straight forward description of their purpose.
F4J also had an protest action plan and got a lot of attention from that. They also had specific reasons for protesting.
For those more philosophically inclined – I’ve never seen philosophers starting social – political action groups to push their philosophical viewpoints. They join and sometimes drive other specific causes that they feel is part of implementing their beliefs, of course. But philosophical discussions tend to take place largely through individual writing and in small academic groups.
October 8th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
All good points Paul. I’ll quote so I can order my thoughts…
“But it was a good example of what most all of us do, which is to divide with each other over largely insignificant and inconsequential matters. ”
I’d call this effect a by-product of the manner in which the MRM came into being. It started as a highly interpersonal movement, where the authors conversed directly with the readership, in a conversational (or other..) tone. While this is a tendency to distract from purpose, the value in it is a faster dissemination of ideas into the general membership, as it were..
While this is not a “top down organization” (heck, not even organized), we do have certain “luminaries” that tend to write the bulk of the most-discussed and -read articles. Certain types of people tend to gravitate around each of those types.
If we were a direct mirror of feminism, these types would splinter into many “brands”, a concept we are all familiar with. This argument back and forth between “factions” does slow focus of attention…but it also ensures none reign supreme. I support the interconnection of wildly disparate MR sites for that reason.
Yes, MRA’s have a tendency to tear down others work, rather than showing them up with better work of their own, or helping to make someone else’s better. I think this is definitely an area that needs a LOT of improvement. I don’t think it’s hubris in so many cases as it is self-devaluation, frankly.
I also think, more importantly, that most MRA’s think the only thing they can do is go stand outside some courthouse holding a sign. I have my own perspectives here, of course, but I think anyone that can write, or draw, or paint, or sculpt, or speak, or edit video…you get the meaning I’m sure.. But we also need people who will host sites, and help with security, and create databases (databasi??), and stuff like that. We need people to help researchers, to do research, and other things that end in “earch”.
The unifying forces exist, the media faces exist (Glenn is a great example, as is Marc) already, fighting the good fight..
“Most of us want to be the guy that is right
And we spend more energy on that than we do pushing each others voices into the public domain. ”
This is where we would have done better listening to the feminists when they kept asking for statistics… Not because we should know them, but because it illustrates the need for legitimacy, the need for you to be an established “expert” before you are allowed to opine, or explain. This is also manifest in the defenders of certain approaches to solving these issues.
It also means we should start debating in articles, or essays (for the higher brow academic types who can research…we need that stuff too), rather than comment threads. This doesn’t negate the usefulness of comments though…since anyone reading this thread, for example, gets a far more nuanced understanding of this issue than one single person could provide…
October 8th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
The crass, simple suggestion?
There’s an awful lot of young men and boys, cast adrift and looking for something to believe in….and that’s just in the UK…
It’s really a question of marketing.