Sex and Control: How Men Get Screwed by Emotionally Abusive Women
Sex is a very important part of a healthy and loving relationship. If you’re involved with an emotionally abusive narcissistic and/or borderline woman, the sex has probably become bad for your self-esteem and general well-being, just like everything else in your relationship.
Women with these issues basically have three behaviors toward sex: hyper-sexuality, “hot and cold” or frigidity. Sometimes, the same woman can alternate between all three behaviors.
[Note: Sex drives may vary greatly from person to person and aren't necessarily an irresolvable issue in an otherwise loving and compatible relationship. This post focuses on the unhealthy attitudes and behaviors these women have toward sex.]
First, let’s explore the essential elements for love and a fulfilling sex life.
Vulnerability, trust, intimacy, empathy, and respect (or the lack thereof).
There are 5 prerequisites for love and great sex:
- Vulnerability. This means taking a risk, exposing your true self, your needs and desires. It’s risky because you could be rejected or ridiculed. It’s impossible for an NPD and/or BPD woman to make herself vulnerable because she’s invested most of her life in crafting an elaborate and rigid false self to hide her highly damaged true self.
- Trust. You trust your partner to accept you and to not deliberately hurt you. This woman trusts no one. She believes everyone is out for themselves and trying to “get one over” on her. This is an example of projection. She’s out for herself and tries to constantly get one over on you.
- Intimacy. This is about sharing and getting close physically, psychologically and emotionally.
- Empathy. This requires being in tune with the other person and being able to experience how they feel and what they want and need.
- Respect. This woman treats her husband or boyfriend like an object; not an equal partner whose feelings and needs are just as important as her own. Bottom line: She doesn’t respect you.
An emotionally abusive NPD/BPD woman is incapable of empathy. She’s incapable of seeing any viewpoint other than her own and only cares about her needs and feelings. She’d rather stick bamboo splinters under her fingernails than feel vulnerable and she cannot, cannot tolerate emotional and psychological intimacy. She can tolerate some physical intimacy, as long as it doesn’t lead to the other forms of intimacy. Basically, in order to avoid emotional and psychological intimacy, she either engages in hyper-sexuality or avoids sex altogether. But why?
True intimacy means sharing your good qualities as well as your faults and insecurities with your partner, which this woman will never do. Not only does this woman not let down her guard, she ‘s constantly attacking you or pushing your buttons in order to keep her vulnerabilities from being exposed. Consequently, you feel unsafe and on your guard, even though a love partner is the one person with whom you should feel safe enough to let down your guard. This doesn’t bode well for a mutually satisfying relationship or sex life.
So why is she even in a relationship if she doesn’t trust, respect or love you?
1. You’re her normalcy prop. Being married or in a committed relationship gives her the appearance of normalcy to the outside world. You play an integral role in maintaining her false self. “See. Someone wants me. There’s nothing wrong with me. Normal people get married. Therefore, I’m normal because I’m married.”
2. She can’t exist without attention. Good attention, bad attention; it doesn’t matter. For her purposes, you could be anybody. She likes the idea of having a boyfriend or husband in the abstract, but the reality of being in a relationship is filled with frustration and disappointment for her because you’re not “perfect” or “good enough” for her highly inflated false sense of self. She soon grows to resent you and then the covert and overt abuse, rage attacks and/or sullen withdrawal begin.
As a result of not living up to her lofty and unrealistic expectations, which no one is capable of doing, she doesn’t really like you very much. She plays the role of martyr to the hilt, professing her love for you in one breath and cutting you down and shutting you out with the next. You can’t have a satisfying emotional and physical connection with someone who doesn’t like you and sees you as a “disappointment.” This is another example of projection. In reality, she’s the disappointment and failure as a life partner.
It all comes down to control and bolstering her ego.
Sex isn’t about expressing love, lust, intimacy, passion, affection or mutual pleasure. Instead, many of these women use sex to lure you into the relationship. Once she feels confident that she’s hooked you, sex becomes one of the ways she controls you—either by “sexing you up” or by withholding it. There are two primary ways of doing this.
1. The insatiable sexual virtuoso. The sex starts off with a “bang.” The sheer intensity of it is mind blowing, but DECEIVING. The intensity is actually a symptom of the severity of her pathology. What seems like intense passion to you, is really her intense need to control and dominate you into submission. I repeat, it’s about controlling you, not pleasing you.
You’re also her sex prop. She treats you like a mechanical object/scratching post/human vibrator and/or a way to make herself feel desirable, sexy or “the best.” Roger Melton, M.A. explains: “I love you” means “I need you to love me.” “That was the best ever for me” means “Tell me it was the best ever for you. Show me that I have you.” Sex isn’t an act of true intimacy, but rather another way for her to feel admired and in control. Eventually, this will cause you to feel used and distant instead of loved and emotionally connected. This form of sexuality may be constant or blow hot and cold. It depends upon how often she needs this kind of validation and/or how great her need for control is.
2. The withholding “welcher.” Alternately, an emotionally abusive, NPD/BPD woman lures you into a relationship with the unspoken promise of passionate sex once you’ve “proven” yourself and she “feels” she can “trust you.” Alexander Lowen, M.D. explains this kind of seduction as “a false statement or promise to get another person to do what he or she would not otherwise do. The promise can be explicitly stated, or it can be implied. Psychopathic swindlers openly promise something they have no intention of giving. But most seductive ploys involve promises that are not clearly stated” (Narcissism: Denial of the True Self, p. 102).
This is a trap because the passionate sex never materializes. You have to keep proving yourself “worthy” of her and, as many of my readers know, nothing is ever enough for these women. You can never be “nice” enough, do enough or meet any of her other ill-defined, diffuse, shifting rules and requirements enough for her to “reward” you with sex. Sex is a chore for this woman, an obligation or a “favor” she begrudgingly bestows with growing infrequency and ultimately becomes a transaction.
A transactional relationship is one in which person “A” provides a service in exchange for person “B” providing a service. Prostitution is a kind of transactional relationship and so is sex with this kind of NPD/BPD woman. In other words, if you want to get laid, then you have to give her something she wants or behave how she wants you to behave. This is another way she controls you.
There’s always an agenda, even if it’s having sex so you won’t end the relationship. It’s still a transaction. “You owe me because I let you have sex with me. I did my ‘duty,’ so now you can’t leave.” Most men are so grateful for even the smallest scrap of affection that they ignore the perfunctory and disinterested way in which their wife or girlfriend treats sex. Like a man who’s been wandering through the desert views a thimble full of water; you’re grateful for what little you get.
No matter the scenario, you’re not her beloved, equal partner; you’re either a “to-do” list item, a human vibrator, and/or a way for her to feel like “she’s still got it.”
Shame and sex don’t mix.
This kind of woman may also increase her control by combining sex with shame. For example, she labels you as “perverse,” “sick” or “abnormal” for wanting sex, when she’s the one who has a perverse, twisted sexuality and relationship beliefs—this is more projection. Typical statements include: “There’s something wrong with you. You’re a sex addict. You’re a pervert. All you want is sex.” Shaming you for the very natural desire of physical intimacy in your committed relationship is incredibly abusive and scarring.
The NPD/BPD woman will only have sex when she wants it, which is usually after you’ve been so beaten down that you no longer have any interest in touching her. Contrary to what she believes, criticism, rages, and the cold shoulder do not make for great aphrodisiacs. When you tell her that you’re not in the mood (go figure), she insults your manhood, accuses you of infidelity, of not loving her and so on and so forth.
She expects you to perform a thousand and one feats of devotion before she takes the lid off the cookie jar, yet expects you to perform on demand whether you want to or not. This is another example of her utter lack of empathy. Sex is about what she needs in that given moment and has nothing to do with you. You’re nothing more than object who exists to service her every whim, need and insecurity.
Screwed, but not in the good way.
In the end, a Narcissistic-Borderline woman tends to make a poor lover. Even if she’s mastered a range of techniques, sex is ultimately a mechanical act devoid of true intimacy. If you view sex as simply a mechanistic, impersonal stimulus/release interaction, this may be enough. If you view sex as a medium of expression in which you share love, lust, playfulness, raw animal passion, desire, tenderness and mutual fantasies, sex with this kind of woman will never be enough. Sex becomes just another empty and dissatisfying exchange with your partner.
For those of you who think you’ve lucked out because you’re with the sexual performer, think again. It may be more difficult to end your relationship because you’re also confusing sex with intimacy and can fall back on the lie, “at least the sex is good.” Is it really? Or is it making it more difficult for you to recognize the degree to which you’re being abused, to end the relationship and to find a woman who’s capable of true intimacy?
by Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
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Dr Tara J. Palmatier holds a Psy.D. in Clinical Psychology and M.Sc. in Counseling Psychology. She has over a decade of experience delivering direct services to diverse populations in a variety of settings. She left the clinical field in 2005 to begin a career in multimedia editing, writing and consulting. Dr Palmatier is presently the principal clinical writer and editor for the Mastering My Life program, which provides confidential guided therapy sessions on a variety of life issues. She also runs her own blog, A Shrink for Men, and a private relationship consultation practice for individuals, primarily men, who are suffering emotional abuse in their relationships. Dr. Palmatier has a strong interest in the application of psychoanalytic theory to the Arts. Her dissertation, Ceci N’Est Pas Une Thèse: An Applied Psychoanalysis of René Magritte (May 2004) examines early childhood parental object loss, incomplete mourning, repetition compulsion and creative outcomes. Dr. Palmatier is a member of the board of directors of the Hospice Education Institute, a member of the American Psychological Association, a former graduate member of the British Psychological Society, and past coordinator of Jungian Seminars in Switzerland. | More from Dr. Tara J. Palmatier
Stumble It!
This is the first time I have seen myself described. I have been this way since I was a teenager (it was a conscience decision). All fits me but unable to feel love. I do love others. I don’t want to hurt my boyfriend because I love him. I don’t know how to change myself back now though. Now that I have identified my problem, how do I fix it? Tonight I am suppose to “take control” and play the role reversal. To him this is about physical pleasure. For me it is about control and I am afraid of what beast it shall release. Please tell me. Is there any help for me?
@Paul
Out of the mouths of babes. . . and crack addicts! (insert wink-smiley face)
That is the second best think I’ve ever heard uttered by someone with a drug addiction. My other all-time favorite was when one of my former patients at a substance abuse clinic who had a dirty urine test state, “I swear to God I didn’t use. I was with my ex-wife. It’s second hand crack smoke.” I couldn’t hold it together. I began laughing and gently reminded him that people in recovery shouldn’t be hanging around others who are actively using—even if it was just for sex!
Priceless.
@ Trust, Dr. Palmatier
I think another important aspect of this was demonstrated in Veronicas post. These women “play” the mental health jargon and sensitivities well, in order to manipulate people away from putting the attention on their real problems.
I will never forget one day in a group session, this BPD went on for 10 minutes of so in a diatribe about how her earlier abuses led to the way she conducted her life in the present.
She was so good at it that for a moment or two, she almost had me nodding my head. However, when she was done, a male group member, a crack addict with maybe three or four days clean just flatly stated:
“Sounds like all therapy ever did for you was give you a language to justify what you do.”
I had to remained composed, but inside I saw myself jumping up out of my chair and slapping high fives with that guy. He nailed her to the wall with nothing more than common sense.
We used to say have an expression with BPD’s You don’t treat borderlines, you ignore them.
I know, that sounds callous. But it is true. Personally, I think the only treatment for personality disorders is age and heaps of abandonment.
As you can see from Veronica;s post, there is never really a focus on improving themselves, just manipulation designed to make others feel guilty for even acknowledging that they have problems and what they are.
In a nutshell: How people feel emotionally is important, but how they behave is more important. When feelings are elevated above behavior, there is an excuse for every abuse.
@ Paul and Trust,
I agree with both of your comments 100%.
@ Veronica,
I’m offended by individuals who use their diagnosis/diagnoses to get a free pass for their abusive and indefensible behaviors as adults and psychologists and other mental health professionals who enable them.
I have the deepest sympathy for girls and boys who have been abused, neglected and/or invalidated by their families of origin, but no sympathy for grown men and women who lash out at others. Most BPDs I’ve encountered will admit their behavior is bad and hurtful up until a point. Then comes the never-ending series of BUT’s.
“But you triggered me.”
“But you hurt my feelings.”
“But you were ignoring me.”
“But you made me feel…” (This one is a peach as the facts of a situation rarely match the injured feelings.)
“But I can’t help it. It’s part of my disorder.”
“But you know how I am. You brought this on yourself.”
“But you know I love you. Just try to remember, even as I’m driving you over the edge, that it’s because I love you so much.”
“But I’m afraid. I hurt you because I’m afraid you’re going to hurt me or abandon me.”
Enough already. Trust is correct. If it were a man spouting these excuses and entitlements it wouldn’t get him anywhere. He would be labeled an abuser and ostracized. Abusive behavior is wrong and unacceptable whether you label it borderline pathology, narcissistic pathology, paranoia, bullying or just plain old being a creep.
“I was astounded by the wording in this article and felt that it was basically saying that BPD women cannot be loved because they cannot love. While writing these words you are condeming BPD women to live a life of solitude, which is worse for them than anything else in life.”
Ah, the fake outrage of the victim/aggressor. I’m sure that individuals with these issues feel something akin to love, but is a horribly mangled version of it. I don’t think a person deserves to be in a love relationship until they can learn to not abuse the people they claim to love. What’s more important: your fear of abandonment and rejection or that the man you claim to love is being abused, invalidated and hurt on a regular basis?
I think a woman or man who has received this diagnosis should let potential love interests know about it well in advance before an attachment is formed—just like you would let a potential partner know you had an incurable STD before getting too deeply involved.
“It scares me that these attitudes exist, and it makes me fear any man I ever am interested in finding out that I have BPD. You should really be careful the things that you say about a disorder…”
And I am frightened by the damage and pain caused to unsuspecting men and women by individuals with these traits. I am very careful about the words I use to help those who have been or are currently involved in abusive relationships with borderlines, narcissists, etc. I encourage you to be careful about making veiled threats in writing with a traceable IP address.
Furthermore, a man may never learn that his wife/gf has BPD, but he will know something is incredibly wrong by her behavior.
Veronica,
Your post is interesting to say the least. I can’t recall often meeting women that ever thought there were any excuses for male mistreatment of women, emotional, physical, testosterone, or otherwise, much less argue for sympathy of the abuser. But here you are, sharing a sentiment probably common among women and feminists in particular. When a man is the perp, no excuse, but when a woman is the perp, we need sympathy and there must be another reason (emotional, PMS, etc). Conversely, when a woman is the victim, we need sympathy, but when a man is the victim he needs to man up.
In fact, the only time I’ve seen women defend male mistreatment of women is when it is a liberal politician like Bill Clinton, which is more to protect someone who promotes their agenda than to protect a male.
@ Veronica
Just a personal perspective here. While you may have found the article painful to read, if you are really familiar with BPD, then you know the descriptions of the behavior are fair and accurate.
It is better in my opinion to deal with the reality than to criticize someone for speaking about the problem with honesty and accuracy.
People with personality disorder DON’T love in the same way most other people do, and what they do practice is so toxic and dangerous that people need to learn to avoid them for their own well being.
We all understand that many people in prison had terrible childhoods, that molesters were often molested as children, that people who are abusive in other ways were often subject to abuses earlier in life. It is just that the thinking and rational person should come to a point where they care much more about what adults are doing than in what happened to them as children.
If I catch someone breaking into my home, I care not one bit about his economically disadvantaged past, or the abuse that led him or her into being a drug addict that needs to steal to support a habit. I want them behind bars.
Borderline women are dangerous to be with. They are manipulative, abusive and wantonly destructive. They may have some limited amount of my sympathy for how they got there, but only as long as they are well out of striking range at anything important in my life.
I am very very offended by this article. I myself am a BPD woman, and while reading this article I found myself very hurt by its words. BPD woman are not void of empathy. We have been hurt and most of the time our disorder is linked to serious abuse from our childhood, or a horrible home life while we were growing up. BPD have an utter fear of rejection, this is most of the reason we have a hard time in relationships. I felt that this article was basically saying that BPD woman cannot love, but we can, very deeply. BPD women tend to see things as Black and White which is the problem. And they try to do everything they can to avoid real or imagined abandoment, and unfortunately this can lead to using sex to keep a man around.
I was astounded by the wording in this article and felt that it was basically saying that BPD women cannot be loved because they cannot love. While writing these words you are condeming BPD women to live a life of solitude, which is worse for them than anything else in life. It scares me that these attitudes exist, and it makes me fear any man I ever am interested in finding out that I have BPD. You should really be careful the things that you say about a disorder…
Thank you Dr Palmatier for responding and also to Trust for sharing your experience. Your advice is appreciated.
The positive part for me is that I have now started to resent my girlfriend and I’m fast losing all respect for her. Fortunately I have a very close female friend who I’ve been able to discuss this with and she laughed at the 32 minute claim and even suggested if 30-45 is the norm for her she must be awful in bed if she can’t make a guy come quicker than that.
I think the part of your article that really struck a chord with me was how such women have a total lack of empathy. She is wholly unable to see this from my perspective, unable to concede that our sex life is abnormal and thinks I’m a deviant for wanting it to be better. Also promises. Every time I let her know this is upsetting to me and say that I really want to say perform oral on her she says ok next time we take a shower together I’ll let you do it. Then when we have that shower it of course never happens. It’s like that all the time. Promises of things happening but at some future date which never materialises. And it always happens when I get fed up and question our relationship.
Yes, Dr Palmatier your other article does ring true too. The more my eyes open to this the more I see how she is trying (via many of the ways you mention) to make me question my identity and to force me to submit to her world view but at the same time constantly saying she loves me which is confusing and disorientating.
And Trust, your story also strikes a chord. The whole reason she wants to get married is to have a baby. In fact from very early on in the relationship she spoke of babies. She has even said that if she doesn’t have a steady guy by a certain age she will embark on a string of one night stands to get pregnant. That scares me in it’s own right because that kind of behaviour cannot surely be normal. Yet that’s the paradox, she wants my sperm but at the same time is rendering me impotent by wrecking my confidence. You’d think she’d be priming me to perform like a prize stud!
Thanks again for all your advice.
Anthony, listen to Dr. T. A marriage to this woman would ruin your life.
I’ve been married almost six years. We adopted two children right before our 5th anniversary. My wife nugged me on our 5th anniversary and said “I got you now!” When I said, “what do you mean?” She ‘jokingly’ said “well, we have two kids now, and state law allows alimony after 5 years, so if you ever leave me I’m set!” She chuckled and played it off as a joke.
Since her “joke,” we have gone almost a full year without sex. In fact, the last time we had sex was the week before our children came home, almost a year ago. While she is not treating me like your girlfriend treats you, and I wouldn’t stand for it if she did, she cut me off physically and is much more demanding and less giving. I believe her “joke” was her way of saying she now holds the cards, and her behavior his lined up with someone who has options.
In other words, even with a good intentioned woman, they are swayed in their demeanor by the security and options afforded to them by the misandric law of the land. Even if they don’t consciously know it, they are swayed. I can’t imagine how bad it would be with the woman you described, since she is doing this to you at a time when you could dump her for someone who treats you better (in fact, having the option to to replace someone who neglects you with someone who doesn’t is one of the key reasons people don’t usually have to before marriage).
Just. Don’t. Do. It.
Best,
Trust
@ Anthony
Ugh! Do not marry this woman! It will not get better after you wed. In fact, odds are it will get worse because then she’ll have you at her legal mercy. If she’s treating you like rubbish now before you’ve proposed, well, it doesn’t bode well.
Furthermore, her sexual boastfulness and castrating comments to you about your sexual performance is incredibly abusive. I doubt her tales of amazing sex considering you’ve had anything but with her. That’s part of her smoke and mirrors narrative. It’s the promise of amazing sex if you fulfill her demands that will never materialize. If she were capable of having earth shattering sex, trust me, you’d be having it.
Here’s a link to an article I posted on my site this week: How Abusive Women Brainwash You (http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/how-abusive-women-brainwash-you/). See if any of that rings a bell for you as well.
Anthony, I can’t tell you how many men I’ve counseled who were once exactly where you are now. Each and everyone of them wishes he had followed his higher intelligence and or gut instincts and not married their version of your girlfriend. These women do not mellow with age; they become worse.
And for the love of god, wear a condom no matter how “safe” she tells you it is or that she’s on birth control. This kind of woman will often resort to “accidental” pregnancy to march a man down the aisle and or to hold on and control him.
Even if you don’t marry her, you don’t want this kind of woman holding any of your offspring hostage—which they all do.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara J. Palmatier
I am incredibly impressed with how well written this article is. It relays perfectly how a woman of this type behaves and has helped me clarify many things in my mind.
My g/f of 15 months dictates everything to do with sex in our relationship. The frequency, the time, the type, I mean everything. Any attempt by me to initiate sex is flatly refused and I’ve been reduced to mechanical intercourse. She takes off her knickers whilst I put on a condom and then wants me to get on top. Heck she wont even let me be the one to enter her. She parts her legs slowly whilst holding my penis and then gives me the nod and invites me to enter when she has me in position. There is no foreplay whatsoever and whenever I try to discuss the subject she brands me as sex obsessed, says oral sex is unhygenic and so on.
Against this backdrop she lets me know how her ex partners got lots of oral sex both ways. She says lots of very subtle things to play on my anxieties. For example when I said that my premature ejaculation was a lot better when we have sex more frequently and gave examples of when we had intercourse lasting 5 – 10 minutes she laughed and asked me “How long do you think your average guy lasts?” before telling me that the shortest any guy has ever lasted with her is 32 minutes (yes she gave an exact time, said it started at midnight and ended at 12.32am! She even completed the story by saying her and the guy both laughed at how short it had been). Then went on to say that 30 – 45 minutes of penetrative sex is the norm.
She told me once of a guy who picked her up in a club, took her back to a hotel and gave her the best sex ever because it was rough. So I tried to be more assertive. Nothing rough, I just pushed her onto the bed and tried to take control. She promptly told me that my behaviour would leave bruises all over her body. Honestly I was being assertive and nowhere near how rough she made her hotel experience out to be.
The sad thing is, she desperately wants me to propose to her, says I could never love her as much as she loves me and says the only way our relationship could ever end is if I ended it because she’s never been so in love and comfortable. Go figure, I certainly couldn’t until I read this article and now I know the score.
I have a theory that guys have in the past dominated her sexually and she seems to have a high level of guys cheating her or just using her for sex without commitment. I kind of wonder whether she has at last found someone she can dominate and control sexually and by doing so hopes that I become so rubbish in bed and inferior that I won’t have the esteem to look elsewhere. It’s tragic, because in almost every other way we’re highly compatible.
Thanks Dr Palmatier for such an eye opening and informative article.
I must say, this article is right on point. It articulates greatly everything that I have noticed about women. Much of what was said in this article was EXACTLY like my last relationship. The attachment of shame to my desire for sex, the lies in the beginning of our relationship about how she wanted sex but in reality, later in the relationship, reveleased that she could care less about sex.
[...] Here we have insightful commentary from Men’s News Daily about how life can be in the relational trenches of the real world. [...]
[...] Women can use sex as a means of control in a relationship. Well, women with personality disorders at [...]
Thanks for your comments, Julie.
There are a couple things I think are worth noting.
First, I wouldn’t say I’m unhappy in my marriage as a whole, but I was hurt terribly by an abusive tendency my wife had which she has since ceased to do. I admit I’m unhappy sexually, but that isn’t everything, (though it is more important than many people think).
Second, and most importantly, I do not think many women grasp what a scary prospect divorce is for a father. Divorce usually ends pretty well for wives, which is why they are the initiators by a more than 2-1 margin. It is much easier for a woman to stay a man should not stay in an unhappy marriage when, because their perspective on divorce is much different.
For a wife, a divorce means keeping everything but the husband. This includes the kids, house, cash, and monthly payments.
For a husband, a divorce means losing the kids, the house, perhaps having to pay for wife to move another man in with your kids. Such men are also made the villians of the situation. Every other weekend fatherhood, assuming it is not interfered, is not the kind of father a man wants to be.
In short, when wives divorce, the only thing the lose is the husband. When husbands divorce, the only thing he keeps are the bills.
Just as I think it is tough for a man to understand what it is like for a woman to be pregnant and alone, I think it is tough for a woman to understand what it is like to be a man in the family courts, to be the ones vilified and shafted–which is a curious scenario since the husband is usually there trying to keep access to his kids and everyone else there, including the wife, is trying to get as much money as possible.
My little girls aren’t growing up without me, and as long as my wife continues to leave her ex husband out of our bedroom, things should be fine.
To trist,
***I appreciate the kind words, and I hope someone benefits, but I don’t think there is much brave about an anonymous posting. ***
To me, it doesn’t matter that you posted from an anonymous place. It is just the fact that you acknowledged the truth. Just by your sharing on a site, you faced what is real. IMO
***I think my bravery lies in actually standing by the “for worse” part in my vows and ensuring my little girls grow up with their father in their lives.****
Really? Is that bravery or is that loyalty? Sometimes we people get the two mixed up. Maybe the next step is to work out why you are being loyal and whether your loyalty is the right thing for your children.
I can’t tell you (because the number is too high) how many single mothers I have to challenge who are being medicated for depression because they think their loyalty matters more to their sons than not being loyal and showing that they can survive without their sons so that their sons can cut the apron strings as they are meant to.
Children pick up on their parents suffering more than us parents know.
****She doesn’t treat me bad from day to day, but I do think what she did is far more serious than she cares to admit.****
I already like her. I liked her before you even told me she existed. I like her because she is life itself. She is beautiful as a human being, to me. BUT…..
You’re not happy. And you are justifying your misery. Oh well, better the devil you know than the one you don’t, eh? lol
Soooo, how are you taking care of yourself besides taking care of your physical needs? How are you taking care of your Psychological needs and your emotional needs and your spiritual needs? How is your lack of a caring partner affecting your girls? What sort of message are you sending them as to how they should treat a man?
I mean this is a challenging friendly way. ( sincere nice smile)
****Thanks again for your kind words.****
Thank-you too for your kind words.
trist,
Just remember that if she does “stray” it is most likely that she will not be doing it because she isn’t getting enough or the kind of intimacy with you it is because she wants to HURT YOU and no other reason. Woman like this do that sort of thing. It validates the false notion in their mind that they are not getting the treatment they deserve and at the same time allows them to wield the wepon of jelousy agaist you. Don’t take the bait. Don’t get emotional. That is what she wants-to controll you.
I would just start working on ways to get out of that relationship ASAP.
@julie
I appreciate the kind words, and I hope someone benefits, but I don’t think there is much brave about an anonymous posting. I think my bravery lies in actually standing by the “for worse” part in my vows and ensuring my little girls grow up with their father in their lives. She doesn’t treat me bad from day to day, but I do think what she did is far more serious than she cares to admit. I’ve told if she would have done it before the wedding day, there wouldn’t have been a wedding day, and I think she knows it which is why she waited until she had the security of marriage and children, with the pro-women laws on her side.
Thanks again for your kind words.
@rohara
Thanks for your words.
First, let me say that we did have sex for over a year before the marriage, we just waited until engagement to have sex. We didn’t want sex clouding our judgment about whether or not we should marry, but we also didn’t want to (or at least said we didn’t want to) agree to only have sex with each other for life without knowing what we were agreeing to. Turns out, I didn’t know what I was agreeing to.
I’ve thought about the cheating thing. I definitely am more skeptical and my radar will be up and I’ll be ready if it happens. I’ll keep my vows and do what it takes to live with my little girls, but I definitely will figure it out if she strays. So far, it doesn’t seem she has.
Thanks again.
Toward the end of my 11 year marriage, I started seeking out counseling as she was driving me batsh*t crazy and I just thought it couldn’t hurt in general. Part of the reason I did so was to try to get her to go, aka “set the example”, as she was very hostile to direct pleas. I realized as time went on why she was so angry and threatened about having counseling involved in our life in any form–discovery. She was a case example of the NPD/BPD individual. She could not tolerate exposure or honest critique, only solicited comment or advice from people she knew would agree with her, could never admit mistakes, etc… The idea of being “exposed” by an objective third part, to her, was, I imagine, worse than thinking about being waterboarded or some other torture.
Trist, I think you are brave to have shared. I can’t know how it felt but I think readers would have benefited from what you wrote. I sure did.
This is a terrific site.
Thank you for taking the time to reply Dr. Tara. You are very kind.
You’re right, it’s best to detect this beforehand. I did do my homework on her pretty well (I won’t go into details, i’ve been too longwinded already), and it came as quite a shock. In any case, for the sake of my relationship with my little girls, I put a stop to it and she does so no more. The pain is still there though, and probably will be for a long time. This is the only time i’ve ever shared it, anonymously of course.
Keep up the good work, and thanks again.
Dr. Tara,
Given women’s natural sexual power over men (they can wait 15 minutes for sex, but men can only wait 10 minutes!), I think that many “normal” women yield to the temptation to abuse their power at various times and to various degrees. That said, the small amount of this stuff to which I have been subjected during my marriage makes me grateful for, and to, my wife! (Coming up on 30 years, I think I’ll keep her.)
I think that many men’s sexual relationships with women would improve if THEY were the one to say “no, thanks” every once in a while. It would even things up a bit, don’t you think?
Keep swinging for the fences. You are knocking it out of the park!
@paul p
I think these behaviors are becoming more widespread, but that doesn’t make them acceptable. Just because a great many people smoke, which is very bad for one’s health, doesn’t make it acceptable or right. Just because a lot of Wall Street bankers were playing with derivatives didn’t make their behavior acceptable to a rational person.
I don’t believe all women behave like this and I am hopeful that it hasn’t become the norm just yet. Nor do I believe all women use sex to control in the way described in this post. Not all women have Cluster B pathology.
This article certainly doesn’t describe my sex life and I know I’m not the only “5-legged cow.” Just like I believe most men aren’t jerks I also believe most women aren’t jerks, however, it can certainly seem that way when you’re in a relationship with one and/or have a history of being attracted to this type of personality.
@trist
Reading your comments made me very “triste.” Talking about her ex and comparing you sexually to him is incredibly abusive, hurtful, confidence destroying and just plain wrong. How would your wife feel if you compared her anatomy and sexual performance to your exes? I’m sure she’d go ballistic, cry or withdraw in cold sullenness.
Not all, but many women need to get their heads out of their arses and realize that men have feelings, too, and they feel pain just as much if not more than women do when you hurt their feelings. Men don’t have the same emotional outlets as women (largely because women won’t let them by either insulting their masculinity or invalidating their feelings when they express them—e.g., “Quit being such a baby” or “It’s not that bad”).
Men also need to get their heads out of their arses and recognize these female behaviors as abusive and unacceptable and either set boundaries for acceptable behavior with their girlfriends/wives and/or end the relationship if their partners won’t treat them with mutual respect and caring. Ideally, you guys should figure this out before the Bataan death march down the aisle.
*For the record, I think marriage can be a wonderful, beautiful thing, but not with the kind of woman I describe. Getting married to a woman with these characterological deficits is like playing a game of Russian Roulette and the house almost always wins.
Dr Tara
The really scary thing that struck me about your article is how accurately it describes what I have long recognised as normal female behaviour!
The normalcy prop – it’s standard female behaviour. Why else are women so obsessed with the image of their grand wedding day?
The need for attention – but with the man not perfect or good enough for her: again absolute standard female behaviour.
And as for using sex to control the man – show me any woman who doesn’t resort to this after the relationship has settled down, and I will show you a five-legged cow.
I dare you to tell me it isn’t so. Try seeing it from a male perspective.
Trist,
Dude; first let me say that I am sorry for you that is a terrible miserable situation that you are in.
That whole thing about her bringing her ex up in bed is nothing but an emotional abuse tactic. Her motivations for that are to make you feel bad about yourself and NOT to motivate you into becoming a better lover. It is just that simple so pay no mind to it. I know that it’s easy to say but really that is all that it is. And by the way, and I don’t mean to scare you but she is probably at some point going to cheat on you if she hasn’t already, again not because you don’t do it for her but because she will use it to make you jealous an abuse you more. Sorry but I see that coming.
I would like to address the whole not having sex before marriage thing. Not to make you feel bad but just for those who might be reading I think that is always a mistake. Having sex with someone is part of getting to know them. And as I am sure you are aware by now it causes very unpleasant surprises later in the relationship.
You need to start thinking about divorce if you are going to have any real happiness in life. If you want to wait till the kids are grown that is admirable and you can walk away easier. However, she may become abusive to them as well and if that is the case you need to start making plans to play dirty in divorce court. There are people who specialize in this and you will have to save a little bit of money secretly in order to do it but I can be done.
I would like to say that I am by no means a professional but I, like many men, have been in similar relationships. I would like to think that Tara would agree to much of what I have written and would like to hear her response to my advice whether she agrees with me or not.
Ouch, my post was longer than I thought. My apologies. I’ve never discussed all that before, so I guess it just flowed.
Thank you, Dr. Tara. I’ve loved every thing I have read from you.
This one got to me more than any other of the great articles by Dr. Palmatier.
This past year of my marriage has been akin to an earthquake, but my heart breaks over our sex life, and the lack of sex is only part of it.
We were together over a year before becoming engaged, and engaged before we had sex. We waited until engagement as to not let it cloud our minds about whether or not we were right to marry.
Now, here we are, married with two daughters. And my wife has broke my heart. What was, at least in my opinion, a reasonable, healthy sex life is now my worst nightmare.
My wife brought her ex husband into our bed, talking about him as a better sex partner. Dare I say a sex god by comparison.
I’ve tried to set the mood, been rejected, and had her tell me “say what you will about ____, he sure knewhow to put me in the mood.” We were watching TV in bed one night, and someone said on a sit com “men who can dance are good in bed,” and she piped up and said “My ex husband was definitely living proof of that.”
After foreplay, she’s told me he was better with his mouth than I.
Intercourse was better because “he was smaller and more maneuverable.” (As of being 6’0, 190 lbs is fat)
She even said my orgasm is too much fluid, and it wasn’t that way when he had his orgasm in her.
After a couple months of trying to make it better, I finally told her I couldn’t take any more, to which she apologized, and reassured me by saying “The sex may have been better with him, but you’re a better husband and I love you more.” Yep, they did the trick. She chalks me up to being too sensitive because “sex isn’t that important.” (If it’s not, why did she bring her ex up so much?)
We haven’t had sex in almost a year. And what’s worse, I don’t care to.
It’s not that I’m scared to leave her, but I am scared of what the courts will do to me and my little girls. I don’t want to be an every other weekend father.
And before anyone thinks it’s her hormones, our little girls are adoped. My wife is infertile.
I’m not really asking for help, it’s just nice to share it, as painful as it is. I can’t really tell anyone, obviously.
Kind of funny how none of this came up for years, until she had both the marriage and the children. (There is a reason the courts call children the wife’s “insurance policy”). I asked her before the marriage if I satisfied her (in that and many ways), and she told me I was wonderful.
She hasn’t mentioned him since I lost it months ago, but I know the only reason is my reaction–not because she isn’t thinking of him.
This is one of the reasons I say here that family law has done as much damage to marriage as any feminist.
Dr. Tara is awesome. Kudos to MND for having her column
Wow is right! Describes every relationship and both marriages I’ve had, and why I walked away from the whole stupid game 23 years ago and never looked back. Being single, celibate, and alone is the best thing I ever did. The best 23 years of my life btw.
@julie and rel
Thank you both for the positive feedback. Sadly, I think there a lot of people who live under these conditions in their marriage and it is truly heartbreaking.
WOW!
you have very accurately described 10 years of my married life. I can only say that my ex did me a favor when she filed for divorce. It easy to get whipsawed into compliance (emotionally). I now have a language to discuss this with my sons. They were young, but victims of this behavior as well. Keep up the articles, and many thanks!
Wow! This is a fantastic article.