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Betrayal Trauma: How Men Are Affected by Abusive Women

2009-11-30
By

Do you experience insomnia, nightmares, fatigue, nausea, aches and pains, and an underlying sense of dread? Do you feel like you’re always waiting for the other shoe to drop? Is it difficult for you to trust others because you’re worried they’ll hurt you? Do you frequently feel ashamed, guilty, and worthless? Are you involved with an abusive, narcissistic or borderline woman?

Ain’t love grand! Being involved with an emotionally and/or physically abusive woman can do quite a number on you. If you’ve been bullied, manipulated, abused, confused and demeaned by the woman you love, you may have developed a stress reaction from her repeated violations of trust called betrayal trauma (Freyd, 2008). Betrayal trauma can significantly and adversely affect your physical and psychological well being (Freyd, Klest, & Allard, 2005).

Many men who are abused by their wives or girlfriends don’t recognize their behaviors as abusive. They minimize and misidentify what’s happening by telling themselves that she’s just “emotional” or, worse yet, blame themselves for her cruel and hurtful behaviors. These men blind themselves to the reality of the situation in order to preserve the relationship.

Alternatively, some men realize their wife’s or girlfriend’s behavior is wrong and abusive, but remain silent. There are two primary reasons for keeping mum:

  1. Confronting an abusive woman about her behavior only makes her nastier and you’re then subjected to a narcissistic rage episode and/or histrionic drama queen performance.
  2. She’ll just blame you for everything or deny what she did anyway, so why bother saying anything?

Whether you’re suffering in self-induced oblivion or are painfully aware, but keeping quiet, there are consequences to staying in an emotionally abusive relationship. Trauma affects you physically and psychologically. It also has a detrimental effect on all of your other relationships or lack thereof.

Common physical and emotional reactions to trauma:

  1. Headaches, backaches, muscle fatigue and stomach aches.
  2. Nausea, irritable bowels, diarrhea or constipation.
  3. Increased susceptibility to colds and other illnesses because your immune system is being weakened by chronic stress.
  4. Insomnia and other sleep disturbances such as ruminative thought or nightmares.
  5. A pervasive sense of anxiety, dread, fear, worry and/or panic attacks.
  6. Depression, the blues, grief, hopelessness or despair about the future.
  7. Feelings of helplessness, weakness and being trapped.
  8. Feeling disoriented, confused and/or overwhelmed.
  9. Isolating yourself from others; not communicating with friends and family.
  10. Feeling emotionally detached, shut down or numb.
  11. Feeling overwhelmed or flooded by feelings that are disproportionate situations.
  12. Difficulty concentrating, focusing or remembering things.
  13. Feelings of guilt, shame, worthlessness and/or blaming yourself for things that aren’t your fault.
  14. Difficulty trusting others, feeling paranoid (like others are out to get you), feelings of betrayal.
  15. Drinking too much, taking drugs, overeating or engaging in other compulsive behaviors to numb and/or soothe yourself.
  16. Outbursts of anger, rage, irritability or frustration that are disproportionate to the situation.
  17. Mood swings or moodiness.
  18. Overly sensitive to criticism.
  19. Denying, rationalizing or minimizing the traumatic behaviors.
  20. Feeling on edge, jumpy or hypervigilant to possible attacks; always being on the defense.
  21. Keeping secrets, censoring or stuffing your feelings, lying to others about what happens in your relationship.
  22. Developing false beliefs such as, “All women are crazy” or “Never trust anyone” or “Never let your guard down” or “Never tell anyone what you’re feeling or thinking because they’ll use it against you.” These are negative and self-limiting beliefs that keep you from living life fully.
  23. Difficulty making decisions, fear of making the “wrong choice.”
  24. Not taking care of yourself—eating poorly, not exercising, not getting enough rest, engaging in dangerous activities that could be passive suicide attempts like crossing the street without looking or biking in dangerous areas.
  25. Feelings of indifference, fatalism, cynicism or pessismism.

These are NORMAL reactions to ABNORMAL and abusive behaviors. I repeat: your reaction is normal; her behavior is abnormal. However, your girlfriend or wife has probably used the stress reactions you’re experiencing, because of her, as another device to hurt you. “Why are you so sensitive? Stop being so defensive! You’re a hypochondriac. Stop being such a baby. You’re so angry. I’m tired of your mood swings” Sound familiar? She uses the trauma symptoms you’re experiencing, which she induced, to further traumatize you. Nice.

If you’re suffering from the symptoms of betrayal trauma please take the necessary steps to get out of your abusive relationship and recover from it. Healing from trauma takes time and can bring up a lot of painful emotions that you had to suppress while in your emotionally and/or physically abusive relationship. This is also a normal part of the process. Try to feel the feelings as they come up without guilt or self-recrimination.

Other tips to recover from trauma sustained in an abusive relationship include:

  • Seek support. Share your feelings with someone you trust. If you’re uncomfortable talking with friends or family at first because you’re ashamed or feel foolish, find a therapist who understands and has experience with these issues and/or join a support group or forum.
  • Don’t isolate. One of the effects of being in abusive relationship is distancing yourself from others who care about you. Part of recovery involves reestablishing these connections.
  • Take care of yourself. Eat well, exercise, rest and find ways to relax.
  • Develop a daily routine. This will keep you grounded and help to create a sense of predictability and normalcy after the unpredictability and instability of your life with your abusive wife or girlfriend.

by Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD

Originally published on April 2, 2009 at A Shrink for Men

Private Consultation and Coaching

I provide confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. My practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit my Contact page for professional inquiries.

My Virtual Shrink

MyVirtualShrink is an alternative to traditional psychotherapy and coaching. It offers a wide range of non-gender-biased web-based interactive guided sessions for a variety of issues. For a 20% membership discount, enter this promotional code: JWLCSWPJVAY after taking the Smart Plan Assessment. For more information, please follow this link: Special Offer: My Virtual Shrink and/or email me directly at shrink4men@gmail.com

References:

Freyd, J.J. (2008) What is a betrayal trauma? What is Betrayal trauma theory?

Freyd, J.J., Klest, B., & Allard, C.B. (2005) Betrayal trauma: Relationship to physical health, psychological distress, and a written disclosure intervention.  Journal of Trauma & Dissociation, 6(3), 83-104.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kimberly-Wigglesworth/100000583235477 Kimberly Wigglesworth

    this man you feel sorry  for, think a man who broke  11 bone in a six week old baby should be Forgiven and  I should not have had  the monster who broke all these bones rights terminated …. I know you think all men are victims to women ……but do you really think almost killing a baby, give you the right to called your self a father ……..some of your fans felt it was a just cause to send me hate mail….claiming most child abuse is false ….my son almost died …..but some men rights member feel that their rights are more Important then my son life!!!

  • DonnieH

    Dear KindFremontFather,

    I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. If you haven’t already read her other recent posting, may I suggest you read the article by Dr. Palmatier and comments posted here:

    http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/12/06/why-couples-counseling-rarely-works-with-abusive-women/

    I tried couples counseling with my wife. It was a pathetic joke and complete waste of time. She’d routinely show up totally intoxicated on marijuana, reeking like bong water, and the “counselor” ignored it. When I brought it up, it was brushed aside. What do you think would have happened if I had shown up stinking drunk?

    Sincerely, Donnie

  • KindFremontFather

    I had a very productive marriage for 11 years. This year, my wife was involved in an affair and ever since the affair was discovred, I am being bullied, manipulated, abused, threatened by the woman I love, the mother of two sweet kids 7 and 4.

    When I confront her, she gets nasty. She doesnt care if it is in front of the kids. She balmes me for her affair and denies her affair. She is mentally confused I feel because she admitted to the whole family and me that she did have an affair. I confronted the other man and his wife. The other mans wife has two kids 2 months and 2 year old.

    My wife has now made allegations of domestic violence and fear of domestic violence.

    I would like to take care of my kids and wife till my death, like a good Hindu father and husband. I would like to co-operate and make the environment more manageable.

    I am looking for references of Proffessionals such as Psychologists or Psychiatrists who know how to TREAT such women who need help.

    I am based in Fremont, CA

  • sanjeev

    i have been married to such a woman for nine years. lived through hell. divorced
    i am happier than ever before. i am still manipulated by her through my sons but i have concluded-

    -the only way to find peace is to emotionally detach from such women.
    -keep the communication to minimum and keep AWAY as much as possible.
    -do not waste time trying to reason with them.
    -there is NO happy ending to this story. all you can do is to walk away.

    you get only one life. is ANYTHING worth making that life hell?
    i say NO.

  • Trust

    Well, lilly 123, considering there was:
    1) no whining in my post
    2) no suppression of your freedom of expression or suggesting there should be in my post
    3) no wiping you or your thoughts out in my post
    4) you are clearly afraid to hear others

    I would like to thank you for proving me right so rapidly.

    P.S. it’s laughable you think your thoughts are stronger.

    P.S.S. you are being treated equally, you just don’t like it.

  • Trust

    lilly 123 is a toxic combination of being ill-informed and prejudiced to the point of being nearly impossible to dialogue with.

  • d

    Please stop all the helpless, whiny dribble!

    The courts can do a decent job of freeing you.

    I know, I’m free…

    PS.
    It is way better for the kids even at 50/50…

  • Robert Stevens

    Women today are basically “spoiled rotten” they have been patted on the head for doing things that they should be punished for doing.
    It is no wonder women act abusive, when you do something wrong and are rewarded for doing it, you don’t stop, you get worse!
    I know why this is happening, the “criminals” who run this country have a plan, a plan that has been in place for over 40 years. This simple, yet sinister plan is, wreck the family, have women who are flighty and emotional and act on feelings instead of common sense. launch a rebellion against fathers/men, against the family, against the societal rules that keep order and finally against common sense that makes sensible people stop and think before they do something selfish and stupid. This gives more power to the “criminals” pretending to be public servants and women who are cupable to this criminal act are rewarded , so they will do more stupid and selfish acts. This gives the “criminals” more and more power, because someone has to keep it all together.
    The men of this country will have to stand up, we can beat these “evil bastards” and restore our country. Easy….. no. hard very hard, but doable and necessary. A man can beat this racket, I know I have had some sucess in doing it. You have to do two things, first learn the law, especially the law of voids, use it to take away the money,power and control these bastards crave. Second, be cognizant of what is going on and how your enemy thinks and what his motivation is, so you can counter it. This enemy gets power by keeping people ignorant and scared. Ditch the fear and learn all you can. Organize, if you find something that works for you, spread the wealth! If enough men , stand up, get wise and fearless, we can starve this fraud and racket to death. We can virtually put the bastards out of business. So, don’t worry about “abusive women” worry about and take action against the “evil bastards” who have empowered them to the point, that they are the problem they are.

  • Merry max

    Should. I offer a good 3rd party surrogate service ( womb for rent ) An reputeable human egg seller, (a henny penny, who’s wallet’s ,too skinny ) add your trim swimmers, and 9 months of nail biting in single dad heaven….no mommy…just daddy…no mommy drama or court trauma…just daddy and granma…granpa…an aunt or uncle or 2 and there you have it .a very happy family and long and steady-stable future. I believe over time, this will likely be a model that more men will ultimately follow, due to todays family court shortfalls on males. Once it is popularly replicated a few high profile times, by hollywood, it will become all the rage and the new established shape of things to come…What a business to launch…or good advice to give a dumb sex crazy young man thinking of involving himself with a “her”, for the sake of love and or sex and family…forget about it. It ain’t worth the potental loses. The forevers, will end up as “never-evers”…the sex will turn hex , and love ? Well, loves but a sweet ole fashioned notion. A family ? A marriage ? Its all now, but a curious little museum footnote from a bygone era involving a man and a woman for sake of security and child rearing…but not anymore, thanks to 40 + years of male neglect and the common “yesa-massa-ma’am” chilvary and its ajoining laws. But what if you could safely keep your kids and your house, and your once bright stable future ? Wouldn’t you jump at this and its short comings as well ? Sooner or later we as males will come to know the new human reproductive posibilities that lay outside of traditional marriages and their 3 headed hydra,”the lawyers-judges-and family courts ” First and foremost, this would nullify the wife-the lawyers-the courts-the judges-the c.p.s… in short…everything that makes your life an unneccessary hell ! Expensive up front…yes!..but well worth it later !

  • http://www.standyourground.com Poiuyt

    The first principle is that under absolutely no circumstances on earth is an unimpeachable man, facing or witnessing domestic violence, to be obligated to leave the family home or the children.

    Good legal and psycholigical advice; good counselling and psychiatric therapy; good personal relations at work, college or with relatives not wthstanding; unimpeachable males, facing or witnessing domestic violence have absolutely no obligation to leave the family home or the children.

    It is absolutely irrelevant wether an unimpeachable man facing or witnessing domestic violence, has children with the abuser or not; is the married husband, boyfriend or lover of the abuser or not; owns, rents or inherited the resident location of the abuser or not. Purely on account and as a matter of his innocence and her guilt, does he remain unobligated to leave the family home or the children. Period.

    It is for those of you with or without relevant professional qualification or experience in the matter, to do an immediate about face of 180 degrees, and apply every ounce of authority and ammunition you have, to challenge, attack existing systems, advise, lobby or pressurise abusive women to themselves be the ones leave.

    You must say or propose absolutely nothing to obligate, in any way whatsoever, an unimpeachable man, facing or witnessing domestic violence to leave his family home or children.

  • Mashed

    It seems to me that poiuyt is accusing Dr Palmatier of suppoirting the status quo where Dr Palmatier is only giving advice on dealing with the status quo.

    @poiuyt: There is a difference between advising people on how to deal with a situation and approving of that fact that they need to do so.

  • julie

    Does anyone know the percentage of children who go looking for their fathers? It must be very high.

    One day I hope there is a database for children and fathers to connect.

  • Trust

    It is worth repeating… The problem has been exacerbated, if not downright caused, by sexist laws and courts.

    To a woman, divorce means keeping everything but their husband. To a man, divorce means losing everything except the financial burden.

    For the (so called) family courts to make a man pay for an adulterous, abusive wife to move another man into the house with his kids should be criminal. The psychological abuse of not only enduring it, but having to pay for it, would be profound.

  • julie

    Ooops, I may have seriously overstepped the line on my comment. I really don’t know what to do or say to men who are hurt although I wish I did. If I have said the wrong thing, I am very sorry.

  • julie

    ***Unfortunately, even though I may be more ‘healthy’ by leaving, I am not able to have any influence on my son’s life. I keep going back and forth about whether it was the right decision to leave.***

    I am no counsellor or greater in education but I think you need to stop wondering. You DID do the right thing. To do nothing would have been the wrong choice and you just have to have decent answers as a parent for when he comes to you.

    Y’know, my husband and his brothers disowned their father because in their eyes he wasn’t there for them and they were abused by a step father. I can only imagine how their dad felt a failure to not protect them but I needed him and my children needed their grandfather.

    Never had I seen a man so exiled from society glow so much and have so much to live for within society. My father in law died when he was the rock to his offspring. But he lives forever through his grandchildren.

    My mother in law didn’t click with me and the grandchildren. Her mother used to tell me how to cope with her and treat her but I just wasn’t able to. I tracked my father in law down and fixed the relationship between him and the sons.

    Just have faith that good really is the best and good always wins.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    My sympathies go out to ExiledDad.

    It reminds me of a bottom line in this thread that I think needs to be remembered. Sometimes, frequently actually, there is no magic pill for crazy nor for corruption. There is no “right way” to make those tough choices in the trenches, and no one with the right to play armchair quarterback on men who do the best they can with crappy cards they are dealt.

    I got totally pissed off when I read this:

    “I keep going back and forth about whether it was the right decision to leave.”

    This statement is the result of what so many men face, screwed up family scenarios with no real options that work, so they are left with choosing the lesser of evils according to their understanding and then are left to second guess themselves for years afterward.

    It just sucks! It sucks because there are no good choices and it sucks because it is hard to get a loving father to see that if his wife had done the right thing, he wouldn’t have been forced into making that kind of choice. It sucks because men are generally so over responsible in how they take on problems that their wives can force them into making lemonade with spoiled lemons and then the husband will blame himself because it doesn’t taste as good as he would like.

    Arrgh!

  • http://shrink4men.wordpress.com Dr Tara J. Palmatier

    @ExiledDad

    I am very sorry for what you’re going through and can only imagine the amount of grief you must feel. Like other animals, sometimes human mothers psychologically eat their young, too.

    How and why the majority of family court judges, evaluators and attorneys turn a blind eye to this is beyond me. The double standard is staggering. I read an article to day on The Daily Beast that sickened me.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-30/the-year-of-women-fighting-back/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsL3

    Many of the comments slammed this women for glorifying female violence, which is reassuring to a certain degree I suppose. Intellectually, I understand how and why our system has become so upside down, but I still “don’t get it.”

    This is perhaps none of my business and forgive me for the unsolicited advice, but are you or have you considered creating a “book” for you son to give to him when you finally see him? You could write about how much you love him, how important he is to you, how painful it’s been to be excluded from his life, that you will always be there for him when he’s ready to see you, that you fought as hard as you could for him (include the dates you went to court to fight for him) and how much you miss him everyday—especially on birthdays, Christmas and other special occasions.

    I know it seems silly and trite, but keeping an ongoing dated record of your love for him might go a long way to dispel the lies your ex has been feeding him over the years.

    Best,
    Dr Tara

  • ExiledDad

    Dr. Palmatier-

    Unfortunately, even though I may be more ‘healthy’ by leaving, I am not able to have any influence on my son’s life. I keep going back and forth about whether it was the right decision to leave. I am hoping that he comes around after he turns 18, and is no longer a ‘paycheck’ for my ex. I just hope that he won’t buy into her disinformation, and will give me a honest opportunity to explain why I did what I did.

  • http://shrink4men.wordpress.com Dr Tara J. Palmatier

    @POIUYT

    I’ve reread your comments several times in order to respond to them, however, they leave me stumped. Like Paul, I don’t quite understand what point you’re trying to make.

    Dr. Tara J. Palmatier is saying if her husband is abusive, he rightfully must leave the home, then pay her child support and maintenance in the interest of the children. But even if she is abusive to her husband and children, again he has to leave the home, then pay her child support and maintenance in the intrest of the children.

    I don’t write about men who abuse women. I provide information to men who are being abused by women. I haven’t said any of the things you attribute to me. I don’t understand how you reached these observations.

    I don’t think men who are being abused by their wives/girlfriends should have to financially support their exes. If spousal support is awarded, it should be treated like unemployment benefits and capped after 6 months to a year max IF the woman doesn’t have a FT job or is only working PT when they separate. If she has a FT job, she shouldn’t be entitled to spousal support. Period.

    I believe that if the father is the non-abusive and therefore better parent, that he should have primary, if not sole custody. For that matter, even if the wife isn’t abusive and the father is the better parent, he should be awarded primary custody.

    I don’t think it’s fair that men who have paid for their homes should be driven from them by entitled, abusive, non-contributing exes, regardless if it’s the man or woman who initiates the divorce. I also think the “tender years” assumption is pure nonsense.

    However, I do encourage anyone who is an abusive and soul destroying relationship to do what is best for them and find a way out—whether it’s through physical separation or practicing emotional detachment like DonnieH has mastered.

    Unfortunately, for many men getting out of an abusive or just plain unhappy marriage means losing assets, their homes and access to their children because of the unfair and discriminatory practices of the national family court systems. If a man can legally find a way to extract his abusive ex out of the home he paid for and retain primary custody of his children, I’m all for it.

    For the record, through my private practice I’m aware of several cases in which the husband retained and resided in the home he paid for and the wife had to leave. Some of these men even have primary custody. It’s still a drop in the bucket as far as I’m concerned, but it is occurring.

    Thanks for leaving the conversation starting comments, POIUYT. I appreciate the opportunity to clarify my positions.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    Speaking solely for myself, POIUYT, there are plenty of circumstances where the man does not need to leave and there are many more where he should pack her stuff and send her on her way, hopefully toward getting some help.

    What you seem to be inferring here is that what men must do is stay with women to avoid the pitfalls of the courts, and to stay next to their chlidren. Understood. But I don’t think you are offering a more moral or conceptual alternative.

    What you seem to be prescribing is the idea that once bound to a woman, you are compelled to stay bound no matter what the circumstances. It ties men’s hands behind their back and forces them to deal with the situation by staying. And that can be abusive to the children.

    Again, if the father is in a situation where the children are subjected to the abuses, or witnessing the abuses of some personality disordered nut case, not only should he leave, but he should take the children with them.

    I agree with DonnieH that men don’t need to and shouldn’t abandon their children to get away from an abusive wife, but it is unconscionable to me to even consider that children can or should adopt the coping mechanisms of an adult male in regards to their abusive mothers.

    Either way, and more to the point, what we have here is a difference of opinion by people who have slightly, sometimes vastly different takes on how to handle a problem that gets almost no attention at all in our society. And I am grateful to Dr. Palmatier for taking the heat from all sides that was bound to come her way for stepping out there and taking a stand on the issues and offering some support and suggestions.

  • http://www.standyourground.com POIUYT

    Thank you for your prompt response Paul Elam.

    Can yourself or Dr. Tara, in view of your shared logic on female initiated domestic violence, state any permutation of circumstance where the man does not have to leave the family home ?

    Because if every road leads to the man alone, having obligation to leave the family home, irrespective of innocence or guilt, then he and his children are rightfully described as family members only on the womans sufferance and tollerance of them. … Instead of their standing independently.

    That is, in your and Dr Taras conception, the man and children only remain family home members, dependant on the whim of the woman, or so long as they serve the womans sexual economic or other purposes which she alone is empowered to determine.

    That cant be right, moraly, ethically or even purely conceptually.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @poiuyt

    Well, I suppose to the extent that some years ago I was a counselor by profession, I am thus “implicated.” Though I am honestly not sure at what.

    But I am in the unfortunate position, I suppose, of agreeing with much of what Dr. Palmatier has to say, even though I don’t have anything to sell related to the MRM or the mental health industry.

    What I do understand is that there is a rightly understandable mistrust of many in a mental health field that has been infiltrated by gender ideologues and con artists. From the Duluth Model to other aspects of “feminist therapy” much of it has become a politicized scam.

    However, my understanding of that doesn’t lend me to rejecting any particular ideas because they happen to come from people who make their living in that profession.

    Going back through the quotes you mentioned, I see no circumlocution, but some rather simple and linear paths of logic. Simple point, if you are in a relationship that is abusive it is OK to leave, even if there are children involved.

    I will take that a step further. In many cases, if you are with a highly abusive person who abuses children by chronically modeling dysfunctional behavior, you have an obligation to do whatever you can to protect them, including leaving, unless leaving would leave them subject to becoming the object of that persons abuses.

    If there is a connection between what I am saying and “a justification of women regarding husbands, fathers and children only as chattel for womens sexual and economic purposes,” then it is news to me.

    It is, in fact, the only non sequitur I have seen, either in the article or the ensuing thread. At least that is how it appears to me.

  • http://www.standyourground.com poiuyt

    @ Paul Elam :
    As a longstanding MRA, have you not heard the following circumlocutory non-sequitors before, both justifying the indefensible and selling a consequential and add on service ? Or are you yourself implicated by profession ?

    Quoting Dr Tara:

    “Whether you’re suffering in self-induced oblivion or are painfully aware, but keeping quiet, there are consequences to staying in an emotionally abusive relationship. Trauma affects you physically and psychologically. It also has a detrimental effect on all of your other relationships or lack thereof.”

    “To leave or not to leave when children are involved is like asking if you prefer arsenic or cyanide. However, you’re protecting your child from abuse by remaining in the relationship because their witnessing you being abused, which has disastrous long-term effects as well. A child deserves at least one healthy, strong parent and sometimes the only way to be that parent is by leaving.”

    “That should read: “you’re NOT protecting your child from abuse…”

    “Generally speaking, yes, in most cases I would recommend that the man leave even when young children are involved. However, I recommend that if he does leave, he is thoroughly prepared and has good legal representation with experience in handling “high conflict personality” individuals.”

    “I understand it’s a choice between suck and suck, but ask yourself what you’re teaching your children by remaining in an unhappy, hurtful and abusive relationship? Would you want the same for your sons and daughters when they’re adults?”

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ poiuyt

    Yours is one of the most bizarre and cognitively questionable misinterpretations of an article from this site that I have seen.

    Shockingly misguided.

  • http://www.standyourground.com poiuyt

    It is a good thing someone is challenging Dr. Tara J. Palmatier on her theoretical pretend solutions to female perpetrated domestic violence against husband, father and children in the home.

    Dr. Tara J. Palmatiers’ point of view comes down to a justification of women regarding husbands, fathers and children only as chattel for womens sexual and economic purposes. That is with husbands, fathers and children having no independent status, standing or footing in the home.

    Dr. Tara J. Palmatier is saying if her husband is abusive, he rightfully must leave the home, then pay her child support and maintenance in the interest of the children. But even if she is abusive to her husband and children, again he has to leave the home, then pay her child support and maintenance in the intrest of the children.

    Thank you Dr. Tara J. Palmatier for not exposing yourself.

  • DonnieH

    Dear Dr. Palmatier,

    Thank you for your response. I would like to say that each of the four tips you recommend for recovering from an abusive relationship: seeking support, not isolating oneself, taking care of oneself, and developing a daily routine, can all be implemented without vacating the home and abandoning the children.

    In my case, the most valuable tool I added to my toolbox was to learn how to not show any negative emotion when my wife tried to punch my buttons. It was almost comical, in a pathetic sort of way, to watch her try one button after the next with increasing urgency until she stormed out of the room. In my calmest and most dispassionate voice I said “Thank you for sharing.” Once she learned that punching my buttons wasn’t going to give her the desired response, she pretty much stopped. She tries every once in a while, but I think it’s mostly just out of habit. Since then I’ve been doing pretty much the four tips you suggest (and some others . . . ). Exercise, diet, and sleep build a nice foundation.

    Your statement “every child deserves at least one healthy, strong and loving parent. If you’re actively being abused by your spouse, it impairs your ability to parent and your children are witnessing ongoing abuse” implies several things. First, that a man can’t be healthy, strong, and loving without vacating the family home and leaving his children in the custody of a nut-job. Second, that active abuse magically stops when a father vacates the family home, and the corollary that children won’t witness ongoing abuse just because he leaves. Third, that her continuing behavior won’t impair a father’s ability to parent, in spite of much evidence to the contrary that she can.

    You say “ask yourself what you’re teaching your children by remaining in an unhappy, hurtful and abusive relationship? Would you want the same for your sons and daughters when they’re adults?”

    Of course not. Isn’t that a red herring? Again, you are implying that by leaving the abuse and hurt will stop when we hear men’s stories every day, day after day, of how women continue their destructive behavior. What am I teaching them? Well, 1) you don’t need to let an abusive person control your life or drive you out of your home, 2) their father isn’t going to cut and run just because their mother is a histrionic, narcissistic nut-job, 3) their father will be there for them in their daily lives to support and guide them, 4) that abusive tactics don’t always get you what you want, lose their effectiveness, and often backfire, and 5) that bells can’t be un-rung. Children learn from both positive and negative examples, don’t they?

  • http://www.standyourground.com poiuyt

    Do the authorities measure and try to supress with public awareness campaigns, other seeds of conflict, leading to domestic violence comited against men by women or womens proxies ? Why not ?

    Do the authorities measure seeds of conflict originiating and initiated by women, circuitously leading to violence, or violence allegations, against men that may or may not have got the men killed in the process ? Why not ?

    For example:

    1-
    A mans refusal of a womans sexual, friendship or marriage demands.

    2-
    A mans terminating or attempted termination of a relationship with a woman.

    3-
    A womans menstrual or menopausal rage against males.

    4-
    A womans sexual jealousy or wounded pride concerning a man.

    5-
    A womans drug, alchohol or stimulant abuse around males.

  • http://shrink4men.wordpress.com Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

    @DonnieH

    Generally speaking, yes, in most cases I would recommend that the man leave even when young children are involved. However, I recommend that if he does leave, he is thoroughly prepared and has good legal representation with experience in handling “high conflict personality” individuals.

    By “prepared,” I mean preparing like the Allies prepared to storm the beaches at Normandy. This can involve:
    - understanding his state laws, his rights or lack thereof
    - gathering evidence of her abusive behaviors (e.g., digital recordings of her threatening to make sure he never sees the kids, to destroy him and other bilious verbal assaults)
    - photos and/or video (e.g., if she’s abusing alcohol, drugs, prescription meds, or of her yelling at the kids, etc.),
    - keeping behavior logs of her verbal and/or physical assaults
    - lining up reliable and credible character witnesses
    - being involved with his children’s teachers, coaches, babysitters, etc., to demonstrate his interest and day-to-day care of the children
    - photos and videos of him spending happy one-on-one time with the kids
    - having an attorney recommend a child therapist before filing for divorce to have a mental health ally who will hear his story first and be able to keep an eye out for and document any hostile aggressive parenting by the ex

    The reality is that whether you leave or stay, the child(ren) are still going to be raised by a “narcissistic, histrionic drama queen.” As I mention in my previous comment, every child deserves at least one healthy, strong and loving parent. If you’re actively being abused by your spouse, it impairs your ability to parent and your children are witnessing ongoing abuse.

    I understand it’s a choice between suck and suck, but ask yourself what you’re teaching your children by remaining in an unhappy, hurtful and abusive relationship? Would you want the same for your sons and daughters when they’re adults?

  • http://shrink4men.wordpress.com Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

    That should read: “you’re NOT protecting your child from abuse…”

  • http://shrink4men.wordpress.com Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

    @ExiledDad

    It makes me very angry to read what your ex has done (and is doing) to you and your son with the court’s assistance. It’s just plain wrong.

    I understand the desire for a father to remain in the marriage and protect the children as best they can from the craziness; to be a buffer of sorts. However, the only way to protect a child from a mother’s or father’s abusive behavior is to minimize their contact with the abusive parent.

    When a man or a woman remains in an abusive relationship “for the sake of the children” there are a few things that occur:

    1. the children witness their mother abusing their father and it becomes the model for their adult relationships
    2. the children learn how to become manipulative abusers and think it’s normal
    3. male children learn that a father’s/husband’s role is that of subservient, money-earning, whipping post
    4. the children will eventually become the object of abuse, typically when they begin to assert their independence as teenagers

    It’s tragic when an ex engages in Hostile Aggressive Parenting and alienates the children from the other parent. That in and of itself is a form of child abuse, but it can occur even when you remain in the marriage. It’s telegraphed to the children that they don’t have to respect their father, that he’s useless, etc.

    To leave or not to leave when children are involved is like asking if you prefer arsenic or cyanide. However, you’re protecting your child from abuse by remaining in the relationship because their witnessing you being abused, which has disastrous long-term effects as well. A child deserves at least one healthy, strong parent and sometimes the only way to be that parent is by leaving.

  • ExiledDad

    DonnieH-

    Absolutely, these women point their issues toward the children once the father has left. I had been abused for most of our 8 year ‘marriage’. The only reason that I stayed was to protect my son. When I was forced out, I tried to make the situation as easy as possible in the hope of lessening the stress on my son. That was a mistake. After the divorce, she did every thing that she could to turn my son against me. She would plan events for days on which I had visitation, so that I would either have to give up the visitation, or be the ‘bad guy’ in preventing him from being able to attend the event. She eventually convinced him that I was putting too much pressure on him by expecting him to maintain his grades in order to play football. He would up threatening suicide due to the ‘pressure I was putting on him.’ After spending $12,000 in legal fees to fight this, I had to give in, as it was affecting my health as well. I haven’t seen him in 755 days.

    I pray that the Lord will look out for him, and that somehow, through all of this, he will eventually understand how he was being manipulated, and how much I truly love him and miss him.

  • DonnieH

    “please take the necessary steps to get out of your abusive relationship and recover from it.”

    Would you suggest this in situations where children (especially young children) are involved? Getting out almost universally means leaving the children behind to be raised by abusive narcissistic histrionic drama queen (sorry for the redundancy). Also, as many have pointed out, merely “getting out” doesn’t mean the narcissistic histronics end, or that a man can get away from a woman intent on keeping him feeding her drama addiction.

    Do these sort of women ever seek their pathological emotional needs from the children once the man “gets out”? Is it possible that a lot of fathers stick around to protect their children from her emotional abuse?

  • Mr.K

    Dr. Palmatier,
    Seems like you can read mens/husband/fathers thoughts. Quote
    “1.Confronting an abusive woman about her behavior only makes her nastier and you’re then subjected to a narcissistic rage episode and/or histrionic drama queen performance.
    2.She’ll just blame you for everything or deny what she did anyway, so why bother saying anything”
    Over 20years ago I attended Fathers’ rights group meetings for about 10 years. It seems that men have no choice but to folow Dr. Stephen Baskerville’s advice “Don’t marry, Don’t have children”.
    As has been posted by so many, feminists bets billions from federal, state and local governments. Fathers/husbands get very little or nothing. That group went belly up because men who were already in financial ruins coulld contribute very little money to print the pamplets, pay for ad and contribute to the place of worship that allowed them to use the facility.







Right.

Man up.

Buy the book now on Amazon.com. Or listen to Ronnie tell a story at escaping-from-reality.com.

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