The Real Reason your Wife Doesn’t Want to Work

It’s amazing how often the focus is on equality. I don’t see how it applies in a marriage. It makes far more sense to split up the jobs that need to be done and for each person to take on responsibilities that fit them. If the wife goes to work at a company with 100 employees she won’t be equal in many ways with many of them. She’ll make more money than some, less than others. She’ll have more power than some, less than others. She’ll better at some tasks than some but worse at others. She’ll enjoy some tasks more than others. She should worry about making herself useful and living up to her potential rather than equality. Equality is almost never really relevant in a practical situation. The inherent differences in men an women make equality of the sexes almost never relevant or desirable unless maybe you really believe that there are no innate sex differences. This takes far more faith than a belief that the earth was created 5,000 years ago by God but maybe you can pull it off. Even if this were true it is far more efficient for people to specialize.

I hate to go too far off on a tangent but I get so frustrated with this. I’m dependant on farmers because I don’t farm, don’t know how to farm, and if all the farmers stopped farming I’d starve. Does this dependence mean that I have infantilized myself? Of course not. I do other stuff that the farmer doesn’t. If I don’t do as well as I can at my job and really apply myself I’ll start hating myself and everyone else will resent me for being a parasite. Equality has nothing to do with it.

Another great and useful article. I think men that allow women to stay at home after it isn’t needed are enablers. The women that do stay at home are not contributing to the family, they are going to the Gym, Starbucks, surfing Facebook, you get the idea. Their homes are disorganized and these women can barely cook a nice meal for the family when they get home. The women are just “gaming” the current state of affairs, they know perfectly well that they’ve got it made, and the men allow it to continue because they are fearful of divorce and losing their wealth.

Another of the many good reasons this article is so important boils down to facing hard legal realities. When the divorce comes, and come it likely will, it is her dependency on the man that will only intensify the beating he will take at the hands of the family court judge.

Her financial dependence in the marriage will result is his financial obligation after it’s over. He will be ordered, in one way or another, to continue supporting her in a lifestyle “to which she has become accustomed.”

And in the marital arrangements Dr. Palmatier pens about here, she is accustomed to leisure and freedom at the expense of his labors.

I have news for foolish men that say, “No wife of mine is going to work.” Your EX wife isn’t going to work either.

A great article!

@Paul Elam Says: her dependency on the man that will only intensify the beating he will take at the hands of the family court judge.
_________________

Most divorce books instruct women to work as little as possible or not at all preceding the divorce. They also instructs them to run up debt (cars, homes, home improvements, credit card purchases for assets) and withdraw extra money (say you lost it in Vegas for example) because the husbands almost always end up with the debt, whereas the wife ends up with the goods.

It’s socialism and the corruption on the soul of a nation. Only a modern American woman marinated in a generation of feminist indoctrination could possibly think that the less they do the more they should get, and only a black robed socialist high priest (we call them judges) could actually order it with a straight face.

Question: But whom is responsible for creating and abetting these enprostituted victims and parasites whom become entitled, purely on account of their gender, to free food, drink, clothing and shelter off men ?

Answer: Men themselves, as individuals and as a genderclass !

@ poiuyt

ayup.

It’s time to name names. Every man who has been unfairly treated by family courts should be willing to name anyone who is truly responsible. It’s important to be sure but when you’re sure you should absolutely name names. Who was the judge? Who was involved? Who denied you your rights?

Part of the problem of lazy wives is that men who marry them are blinded by their attraction and filter out all the clues that would warn them of this situation.

It is easy to say ‘I didn’t think she would be like that before we were married’. Women say the same thing about men who become violent after years of marriage.There are always signs of impending problems but too often they are denied and ignored. A woman who is overly dependent on her parents is more likely to become dependent on her partner. If she has been spoilt as a child she will probably expect the same treatment as an adult.

People very often get married not because of genuine love which means an attraction to the person’s values, attitudes and behaviours but because of infatuation and attraction to superficial aspects of their personality. Those things can be like a drug which numbs a person into making poor decisions. It is often too late to repair the damage once the drug wears off and the reality begins to surface.

Failure to acknowledge one’s own blindness to the real faults of a partner before the marriage often sets up a fruitless blame game where both sides end up in bitterness. I think the best starting point for a man who has a lazy, dependent wife is to honestly take responsibility for his own decision to marry her and his own blindness to her faults before marriage. Only then will he be able to find creative solutions to what is a practical problem. He may not be able to change his wife but he can change himself and avoid being sucked into a bitter and resentful confrontation. There are ways around the problem but a man needs to be free of resentment to see them clearly.

Paul Elam Says:
“I have news for foolish men that say, ‘No wife of mine is going to work.’ Your EX wife isn’t going to work either.”

Exactomundo! This is one of the truest statements that I have ever seen in print!

Any man that does not require his spouse to contribute her fair share to the family is only enabling another entitlement princess who will probably never appreciate the sacrifices that he makes for his family and will certainly never respect him. You can bet that the divorce lawyers and the so-called “family court” judges will certainly never appreciate his sacrifices nor respect him.

Stop enabling these worthless parasites!!!

A lot of it started with women’s voting rights. Chivalrous legislators, and probably even more power hunger political panderers, use such legislation to buy votes. This leverage is part of the reason womanzing politicians like Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy get so much of the female vote while politicians that treat women well are often largely disdained (the Bushes come to mind).

I agree largely with commentators that talk about how men often filter out clues. However, it is also important to note that there are far more legal protections for women after marriage than before, therefore they behave differently. I’ve seen hard working women turn to couch potatoes after marriage since they know that they are protected, whereas before they didn’t have much choice but to work.

I’ve seen men do this to, for example, they work for strict entity and work hard, then they transfer under a lax dunce and join the uniion, and they spend all day on fantasy football. They aren’t magically a different person, they just are in differnt circumstances and respond accordingly. Same with many wives who, I believe, are fully aware that if two things: 1) if the marriage falls apart, they are set and 2) they less the do during the marriage the more they’ll have in a divorce.

Choose wisely men, but understand her options will be much different after marriage and she’ll respond accordingly.

Trust Says:
“Same with many wives who, I believe, are fully aware that if two things: 1) if the marriage falls apart, they are set and 2) they less the do during the marriage the more they’ll have in a divorce.”

And this is precisely why the antiquated laws concerning alimony/child custody/child support have got to change! They simply have no basis in reality in the modern world and they only serve to destroy famillies and enable parasites to suck the life out of society’s more productive citizens. A few months or years of marriage should not entitle any able-bodied adult to a lifetime of support from their former spouse and children should have the right to the love, support and involvement of BOTH parents.

Women need to stop using children as a convenient crutch to avoid unpleasant responsibilities. There are a whole lot of us single dads who are gainfully employed and still doing a pretty good job of raising kids by ourselves. What’s their excuse?

@ Jon

I think what you’re describing is gender equity versus gender equality, which is ultimately more achievable. In a healthy relationship, both spouses contribute their fair share and mutually respect and value each other’s contributions even if they’re not exactly the same contributions.

For example, Jack and Mary both work full-time and have 2 school-aged children. Jack earns twice as much as Mary, but they’re both contributing. Mary has a more flexible work schedule, so she handles kids’ doctors appointments, etc. Both spouses and the kids all take care of household chores. Mary and Jack both pull their weight even though they make different contributions.

Furthermore, I have no problem if one half of a couple becomes a stay at home mom or dad, so long as it’s mutually agreed upon before having kids and doesn’t become a financially abusive situation. However, husbands and wives should be aware of what the repercussions of this choice are should they later divorce, which is, statistically speaking, a coin toss with the odds slightly favoring divorce.

@ Geoff

“Enabling” is the perfect word. Men who allow their wives to not work and also foolishly hand over financial control to the non-working spouse are giving their spouses the weapons to control and destroy them later on. They’re like lambs to the slaughter.

@ Paul

Yes, yes and YES!

Love the last few lines of your comment.

@ MichaelT

I couldn’t agree more. People will give you warning signs very early on as to their character; it’s up to you as an individual to see them and heed them. Every man I’ve worked with knew pretty early on in their relationships that something wasn’t quite right. They ignored their “gut,” their instincts and their intellect and entered into relationships with women who were a field of red flags.

Alternatively, they rationalized or minimized the warning signs, convinced themselves they were in love (a more apt term would be “Stockholm Syndrome”) and plunged headlong into their own ruin.

Men are socialized to enjoy treating women like children (playing the hero archetype). Women are socialized to enjoy being treated like children (playing the damsel in distress/victim archetype). The irony? Women are NOT children! And yet, men and women alike play into this sexist arrangement.

Esther Vilar:

Masculine= Hard
Feminine= Easy

Masculist

OK. So, once you find yourself in this position, what do you do?
The wife refuses to get a job.
Is there a law that says she MUST contribute financially?
If not, why not?

I think a lot depends on your particular domestic situation. I would look at your own contributions and gradually stop doing them so long as you are not causing problems for yourself by doing so. If you spend any time cleaning the house then just stop doing it. You would need to decide what is more important to you – a cleaner house or a contributing wife. If you drive the kids to non-essential activities then refuse to do it and make it clear to the kids exactly why and perhaps they will tell other kids and it will get around the neighbourhood and your wife will be shamed into responding. Go on a holiday on your own using your money. If you have two cars and she drives one then sell it or refuse to register or insure it. If you have a joint bank account then make them separate.

I think if she is really doing it to try and hurt you by taking advantage of your care then it would be natural to withdraw from the relationship to a certain extent to make it clear that you do not want to be close to someone who aims to hurt you. Sleep in the spare room. Spend more time with your friends, pursue some hobby or interest. Take back your life and become more ‘single’ since it seems she is taking the relationship for granted. Just make it clear if she asks why you are doing it that it is not because she refuses to get a job but because she takes you for granted and no one likes being taken for granted.

Eventually it should come to a point where she has to decide to make an effort for the sake of your relationship or else the relationship is not worth it. At least then you will know where you stand and can make your own decisions accordingly.

I think we can be a bit too dependent on legislation to solve our problems. Quite often we have the tools at hand to force someone else to behave fairly but we are uncomfortable with asserting our rights. We want someone else to do it for us. There is way too much political and official interference in personal relationships and it costs the taxpayer a fortune that could be better spent elsewhere. Once we become comfortable with asserting our rights the practical solutions will be easy to see. It may even have benefits in other areas of our life where we are treated unjustly.

Michael T Says:
“If you have a joint bank account then make them separate.”

You need to be very careful with this type of activity. Believe it or not, the domestic violence community and it’s rabid followers claim that attempting to control the spending of your spouse is a form of domestic abuse. This could provide your spouse with an excuse to get a restraining order and have you removed from your own home.

Michael T Says:
“I think we can be a bit too dependent on legislation to solve our problems.”

Let’s face reality here, when it comes to domestic situations, men have virtually no legal protections from their own spouse. Why do you think that women initiate 70% of all divorces?

IMHO, the best thing to do is to nip it in the bud. NEVER, EVER allow your wife to quit her job and become dependent upon you. IMHO, you should make it clear that you would consider this grounds for immediately contacting an attorney and initiating divorce proceedings. Believe me, “family court” is a financial killer for most men, even when both spouses work. Been there, done that, got the credit card receipts to prove it!

wow. i is like Dr Tara J. Palmatier has been to my house. I found out after the fact that my wife’s father left her family for a man (pitiful loser indeed) when she was in elementary school. My wife had big plans on becoming all sorts of grand things when we met, but she has never been able to get one thing going and it got a whole lot worse now that we have one daughter. She doesn’t want to work and our daughter is 3 going on 4. I am OK with the stay at home, but there is no planning going on as to what next.

This article helps shed light on a very frustrating situation for me…

My ex stopped working as soon as our son came along. Before our son was born I was regulary told how much more money than me she would soon be making. She earned less than half my salary.

Then she decided she wanted to work freelance from home. I bought her cards and computers and software.

These were all lies.

She went shopping each day and hired a nanny.

This lasted 6 months then I started to get the picture.

I started to request she contribute. She saw this as DV and left me.

I had to make a decision. It was a short term marriage at that point. There was no good solution. So, I filed first.

Best thing I could have done. Only 1 and 1/2 years of alimony and 50/50 custody. Now I have full custody as she found her sugar daddy.

Was it hard on everyone? Yes. Did she start it? Yes. Do I have any regrets? No.

Every year I would have let this play out would have been a bigger grave I was digging myself. Luckily I was already a MRA and knew the score.

@SingleDad

Way to go Single Dad!

This is the correct and proper thing to do in such a situation. You didn’t leave unscathed but you have your kid and your finances intact. It is a good thing that you were able to spot her intentions early in your marriage; most men are just not adept at this.
I agree with the posters above that you should always protect yourself legally and not always depend on an interpersonal approach. The laws just work against you if you don’t protect yourself from them and that is all there is to it.
I am 38 now and never married. Some say that is sad and I always tell them “No it is not sad it is glorious!” Then I explain to them that what our society has done to marriage and the men who engage in it is just not tenable for any male individual.

An interesting psychoanalysis and well written article by Dr. Tara J. Palmatier.

However I note that the words ‘lazy’ and ‘sponger’ are not mentioned as is ‘non-symbiotic parasite’ in the analysis. Pity. Nor is ‘mass unemployment’.

The real reason your wife doesn’t want to work?

@lilly 123

Atcually, lilly, I don’t moderate (approve or delete) comments at MensNewsDaily. The editor-in-chief does that. If you’ve been leaving comments here that haven’t seen the light of day, I’m not responsible for it.

Furthermore, I didn’t realize journalism was based upon whether or not someone’s comments to a blog are posted or not. I’m not threatened by different points of view. However, you haven’t expressed your beliefs here. All you’ve done is make a snotty, unfounded attack. I still don’t know what your point is.

Tara
We live in a male dominated world formed and run by males even though in a few parts of the world there is a little input by woman –AND ONLY IN RESENT YEARS
This male story forgot half their species and when the story doesn’t go right they blame woman
Men hunt, woman nest and that is why these strong symbolic acts are hard to shake
You can make all the huff you want but there are simple facts to our evolutionary journey
Your reply was what i expected- when someone or group wants to bully their opinions on others that may not agree with them – is to only give one side of a story and live in half truths
Your holding tissue to people that are crying –of course your going to get the of poor me you expect
and yes comments on blogs do indicate good journalism –for the one’s not afraid
lilly123–soon your friends will make this disappear

“AND ONLY IN RESENT YEARS”

It seems lilly’s Freudian slip is showing.

“when someone or group wants to bully their opinions on others that may not agree with them – is to only give one side of a story and live in half truths”

I’m not an expert, but is this what’s called projection? Or is it transferral?

Mr. Elam…

One of the dangers and traps that movement’s (both leaders and sycophants) fall into is becoming just like their opposition and in the end advocating the very same ill advised policies and logic they fought so hard against. It was a famous feminist (Germaine Greer) who declared that no woman should be given the choice to stay at home with her children because too many women would choose to stay home. Feminists also railed against the stay at home mother, made her the least of those in the women’s movement and called her derogatory names such as a leach, slave and a dependent adult child as well…

The Logic is this article is exactly the same and advocates the same exact goal of the gender feminists and will in the end lead to govt. financed daycare and all of the evils so called conservatives rail against.

Your statement: “I have news for foolish men that say, “No wife of mine is going to work.” Your EX wife isn’t going to work either.”

Is a clear cut example of a movement and a leader on the verge of becoming the very thing they say they hate.

@ Dabir Dalton

You raise a point here that is, IMO, among the most relevant of crossroads that men will face in the MRM and also in the day to day life of western culture.

But I honestly think that your POV here is a little over simplified. I don’t think that men accepting the reality that marriage has become a state racket that favors women and that the traditional role of protector and provider is currently one of devastating vulnerability, puts them in the position of becoming the monster they are fighting.

Feminism and the misandric ideology of male disposability now own the institution of marriage. And, IMO, it is actually the failure to accept that and act accordingly that puts one in the place of becoming the monster, and not the other way around. Supporting traditional ideas about marriage enables the destruction of men and boys.

Marriage worked until it became a rigged game. And the same can be said for gender roles. Though carrying some disadvantages for both sexes, they generally worked until one sex was relieved of their obligations under the rules. That “half a revolution” has thrown us into chaos with no way forward except for a corresponding change that allows men the same choices women have.

But what we did was “free” women to do whatever they wanted and left men compelled to the same obligations they always had.

That is exactly how we got MGTOW and exactly why we needed to.

Now, since I don’t see social forces turning toward the onus being placed back on women to dedicate their lives to the old paradigm, it only makes sense that men who don’t want to get crushed by a double standard, and don’t want their sons to, accept reality and move forward.

To many this may seem like acknowledging a defeat. Well, it is, of sorts. But it may just be that the time has come for it. Those roles always hurt men much more than a culture that required their disposability was ever willing to acknowledge.

I can’t define who is and isn’t an MRA any more than I can define what a “real man” is. But I can say what the MRM is to me. And it isn’t a call to return to traditionalism. It isn’t a mandate for men to take care of women. It isn’t raising our sons to be pack animals and doormats. And pack animals and doormats is what most of them become through marriage in this day and age.

Well said Paul Elam at: (2009-12-26 at 9:15 am).

I also want to add that I see Masculism as a human rights issue. That is why my group NCFM is non-political. In other words, conservatives don’t OWN the men’s movement. There are plenty of liberals too.

Paul it is one thing to accept reality and to decide not to marry and have children in this day and age; while it is entirely something else to surrender to the feminists and give in by attempting to defensively adapt one’s self to the situation…Because once ensnared within the marital net the end result for the male will always be the same…

Wow, Tara, I couldn’t possibly disagree more. While I’m sure that “hostile dependents” with an “infantile need to be taken care of” probably exist, they certainly exist equally in both genders. For every lazy woman in this world who sponges off of her man, there exists one lazy man who is sponging off of his girlfriend…and one criminal man who is in jail while his girlfriend supports their offspring.
I am trying to understand why you feel the need to denigrate women who choose to stay home to support their spouse, children, and extended family.
I am a “real” doctor with extensive fellowship training and experience in my field. I have done everything from running a level one trauma emergency room to training medical faculty at a major medical school. I have made the decision to stay at home and care for my family, and I can tell you that it is the most strenuous, stressful, and thankless task I have ever encountered. It strips your identity and worth even more when female professionals such as yourself vent your spleen about the decisions that other women make. Yes, I am dependent. But I am only “hostile” about my dependency when others devalue my (unpaid) work.
Kudos to you for working, and I hope you enjoy it. Your values differ from mine. I value human beings more than I value money. I promise you that I will respect your values if you respect mine!

Amy says:
“I have made the decision to stay at home and care for my family, and I can tell you that it is the most strenuous, stressful, and thankless task I have ever encountered.”

As someone who has briefly supported a “stay at home” partner, I can honestly tell you that THIS is the “most strenuous, stressful, and thankless task” that I have ever encountered. I worked hard all day at a very stressful job only to come home to someone who didn’t appreciate the fact that they got to stay home because of my sacrifices. She was constantly complaining about everything while never actually doing anything to to help improve the situation. Moreover, from my observation of and conversations with other men who enabled this type of behavior, this is not an uncommon situation.

In our current no fault, winner take all divorce culture, it’s a no win situation for men and any male who enables this type of behavior is making an incredibly foolish mistake. So if women truly want this type of life then you better get up off of your butt and work on making some changes to our current laws, cuz most men of the younger generation have seen what kind of misery this kind of nonsense has caused for us older guys and they want no part of it. Can you blame them?

Amy, your comment screams for a link to this article:

http://www.angryharry.com/esIstheTrainingofWomenDoctorsAWaste.htm

Is the training of female doctors a waste of money?

Also, staying home with a few children isn’t all that difficult and we all know it. Your claim that “it is the most strenuous, stressful, and thankless task I have ever encountered” is complete nonsense.

@ Amy

I’m not denigrating all women who choose to stay home with their children. Staying home with the children and taking care of the household is a valid choice—if it’s something that’s mutually agreed upon by both partners, it doesn’t harm the financial well-being of the family and if the parent—the mother or the father— who stays at home is actually doing the stay at home job.

However, I believe that once the children are in school full-time, there’s no reason for either parent not to work at least part-time. First, for the reason Dave, Paul and others have mentioned. If a couple divorces later it will be much more difficult for either ex to claim they can’t support themselves. I also believe it sets a good example for children to see both their parents as working, contributing, independent individuals with skills and interests.

Congratulations on being a “real” doctor. It’s a great achievement. I know how great (and exhausted!) I felt the day I passed my exams, finished my dissertation, passed my oral defense and my doctorate was conferred. I also feel good about using my degree to help others and work in my chosen profession. It makes all the years of hard work I put into my education worthwhile. You write: “Your values differ from mine. I value human beings more than I value money.” Contrary to what you think, my decision to work isn’t because I value money more than I value family. I value having a roof over my head, paying off my student loans, having food on the table, etc., which my family also values.

You write: “I have made the decision to stay at home and care for my family, and I can tell you that it is the most strenuous, stressful, and thankless task I have ever encountered.” And you seem pretty angry about it, Amy. Are you sure your living out your own values?

You spent a great deal of time, money and energy obtaining your degree and now you’re dealing with “the most strenuous, stressful, and thankless task” you’ve ever encountered. Perhaps it was because you believed the “go to school-get an education” stuff your parents and teachers taught you and then gave it all up to stay home?

You’re not the first highly educated and highly trained woman I’ve encountered who has expressed this sentiment about staying home with the children. My best friend has two ivy league degrees, is also a “real” doctor and has 3 kids. She stays home, but put two of the kids into daycare and has a nanny to help with the third and a house keeper who comes a couple times a week. She gets indignant when her husband gets upset about having to pay for others to come in and take care of the things agreed to do because she chose to stay at home. He supported her decision believing that when she said she would stay at home that he wouldn’t have to hire outside help on only one salary. I see his point and have told her as much. She’s finally gone back to work part-time.

She’s conflicted because she believes she should stay at home because that’s what her mother did (who was also angry about having to stay home and took it out on her kids), but was also taught to go to school, get and education and be a professional. When we have values that are in conflict with each other it can be confusing and breed resentment.

If staying home is really your own value, I think you’d be happy about being able to live out your values. I wonder how I would feel if my mom (or wife) referred to me as “the most strenuous, stressful, and thankless task” she’d ever encountered. It would probably make me feel pretty bad.

You also write: “It strips your identity and worth even more when female professionals such as yourself vent your spleen about the decisions that other women make. Yes, I am dependent. But I am only “hostile” about my dependency when others devalue my (unpaid) work. I promise you that I will respect your values if you respect mine!”

I’m not devaluing your choice, Amy. I’m writing about a specific kind of woman who has chosen to stay at home when she could and should be working to help support her family. I warning men about the dangerous repercussions (should they later divorce) of enabling these behaviors. It was not a personal attack on you and your choices.

Kind Regards,
Dr Tara J. Palmatier

@ Amy

‘I value human beings more than I value money.’

Hmm. Isn’t a doctor supposed to be someone who values people more than money? Aren’t they supposed to be dedicated to treating the sick, saving lives and teaching people how to live healthier lives? Did you forfeit your salary when you worked as a doctor? Isn’t the doctor who wrote this article trying to help others?

So what point are you trying to make? That you’re disgruntled and bitter about the choices you made? Just wondrin’.

just sayin’

At one point during our now-defunct marriage, my then-wife tried to pull the same stunt on me.

She did it by deliberately being insubordinate with her current employer, who tired of her behavior and simply refused to give her any more work beyond undesirable postings. This led to a point where she saw the writing on the wall and left that job.

She ended up being out of work for about six weeks, and I basically had to push her a little to find work. One day I had to sit her down and point out the harsh reality that there was simply no way I alone could carry the mortgage on the house we bought almost two years prior.

Her excuse for not trying harder to find work was that her nearly sixteen year-old son was acting up, and she needed to supervise him a little better – even though he spent most of his daytime hours in school. While he was acting up, this excuse proved rather thin.

In the final analysis, she ended up getting a job that paid roughly the same wage as she was making at her old job.

Needless to say, I saw through the scam she was trying to pull. By refusing to work, she could claim alimony if the marriage fell apart – which it did some 18 months later, although for a totally unrelated reason.

Ultimately, she did make me pay for forcing her to work, in that any real intimacy between us simply disappeared.

Part of her problem was that she came from a family where her mother had a tenuous, short-lived connection to the workforce and had spent a very large chunk of her adult life not working while her husband supported her.

I think she saw the carefree lifestyle her mother had, and she wanted the same kind of deal, even though it wasn’t what she and I agreed to when we discussed marriage.

It’s interesting to note that her two siblings have basically followed in their mother’s footsteps, opting to be stay-at-home mothers.

I personally believe that women who choose to be stay-at-home mothers (or wives) for any appreciable length of time do themselves a grave disservice. If their husbands die or leave, then they will find themselves in a position with few marketable skills and relatively little job experience. The financial consequences can be crushing.

However, thanks to no-fault divorce, women can force the issue of whether to stay at home or not. If their husbands won’t let them stay at home, all they have to do is file for divorce, and the courts will grant them their wish, and they can stop working or take poorly-paid part-time jobs while collecting support payments.

The end result is that women get all the financial benefits of marriage and none of the responsibilities. Nor are they ever held accountable for their behavior in this regard.

In today’s legal climate, any man who lets his wife stay at home for any reason other than involuntary unemployment, has got rocks in his head. To say nothing of the fact that he’s setting himself up to become an inmate of the virtual debtor’s prison that divorce courts have created with their alimony and child-support regimes.

Dr. P, I wonder how old you are. I wonder if you have kids. I wonder if you are a lesbian, perhaps. Maybe living with another woman is different than living with a man. I wonder why you think a woman who likes to stay at home because she has found that she just can’t satisfactorily delegate her responsibilities to strangers (or to her husband) because they suck at what they are asked to do (hard to get good help these days)…is infantile and pathetic. Ever hear of Neil Young? Maybe not, you sound young. Well he wrote a song called “A Man needs a Maid.” Nothing has changed my dear. Except today, maybe Beyonce would have sung, “A man needs to Come with a Maid.” Unfortunately, many young women today marry men who do not pay them for their work at home nor do they make good on their 50/50 labor promises. No, they expect the women to go out and work, and the house and the life to run itself (poorly….but that’s okay, most guys have low standards of living compared to most women). So, Buy a house, and have some kids and I want to know who is going to replace the woman who stays home and does everything…..no doubt a person/persons who will cost a lot more than the wife probably can make ( hey not all women are PhD’s and even of those who are, they don’t make a heck of a lot of money). So, I take this article as a fluffy piece of opinionated and unsubstantiated bunk.

Oh, and I forgot that I did have a comment for the man named “Sam” on here who thinks a man has “rocks” in his head if he “lets” his wife stay at home and not work. Well Sam, I advised my daughter that she has “rocks” in her head if she marries a man like you, who obviously needs her income to have a family, a house, and a married lifestyle. Her life will end up resembling indentured slavery both on the job and at home. Just looking at these poor tired girls who have kids, a job, a husband, and a house makes me sick at the thought of my daughter being one of them. A young woman would have “boulders” in her head today to marry a guy who can NOT afford to PAY her for staying home and running a house, taking care of kids, etc. A fool is a girl who allows anyone to convince her that working that hard at home for nothing and then being called a “parasite” is okay. I hope there are a ton of young women reading this. Don’t let any man tell you that the only work that is worth being paid for is in someone else’s place of business helping them make all the money. And I’ve got news for you. The only jobs that come with a promise of REAL self empowerment are usually not jobs at all….they are careers and they are careers that wind up in self employment. (And if you don’t believe me, just check out your local support group for women who have miserable jobs that were supposed to be so rewarding……..it’s called Happy Hour and the members meet at their local bar)

Okay…..only One more thing….this paragraph: Quote: “Your wife’s wish to be taken care of and dependency on you will eventually breed resentment and anger in both of you.

(Answer: Baloney, it’s all about money and nothing else. Self esteem is self esteem, and people with it don’t get bored, don’t get resentful and don’t lay around and do nothing even if they don’t work….come on….)

Quote: ” Why does this happen? Because no matter how powerful her childish wish for security is, SHE IS AN ADULT, which creates an unconscious conflict within her.”
Answer: Childish wish for security? Okay……I guess you forgot your Anthropology classes when you got your degree. Wow. That wish for security runs deep….right down to the DNA….what kind of Dr. are you again? Honey, I’m probably old enough to be your mother and I still have that childish wish for security. But then again, I am femininne. It seems the more masculinized women really try to get around the primal stuff. They’re more comfortable with male mimicry.

@ LDB

Thank you for sharing your interesting perspectives on the matter.

Best,
Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD

Part 1
LDB says; “A fool is a girl who allows anyone to convince her that working that hard at home for nothing and then being called a “parasite” is okay.”

My response: I am a stay at home male spouse. I haven’t had a job since I retired from the Navy. My wife has a career with the federal government (i.e. civil service). I keep the house very clean if I say so myself – I clean the bathrooms, vacuum the floors, dust, wash the bed sheets and sofa covers, and I take out the trash. I also pay all the bills. I cook most of the meals on weekday nights and wash the dishes (we have an automatic dish washer so it’s not that hard). On the weekends, my wife often cooks or we go out to eat, but I often wash the dishes even when she cooks. Additionally, I do the domestic chores that are commonly done by a man in the traditional/conventional marriage (i.e. man as primary breadwinner and woman as the housewife). I mow and edge the lawn, I maintain and wash the car and I prepare the Federal and State tax returns.

Does my life sound like a hard life to you? It doesn’t to me. As a stay at home spouse, I don’t have a boss, and I decide when I do the housework. I can take a break from the housework whenever I want and I usually listen to music when I do the housework. Modern home appliance technology makes housework easy. My life as a stay at home spouse is a walk in the park compared to my life in the Navy.

I also believe that my life as a stay at home spouse is a walk in the park compared to the life of my wife. Would I feel that way if I had not served on active duty in the Navy for twenty years?

Part 2
LDB says; “I wonder why you think a woman who likes to stay at home because she has found that she just can’t satisfactorily delegate her responsibilities to strangers ”

My questions: So did you home school your children or did you send them off to a public school to be educated by the government? How many of your children’s teachers were working mothers? How well did you REALLY know the teachers of your children?

LDB says: “A young woman would have “boulders” in her head today to marry a guy who can NOT afford to PAY her for staying home and running a house, taking care of kids, etc.”

My response: Not all women can be trophy wives. There just aren’t enough multi-millionaires to go around. Are you saying that women should view marriage as their “meal ticket”?

LDB says: “And if you don’t believe me, just check out your local support group for women who have miserable jobs that were supposed to be so rewarding……..it’s called Happy Hour and the members meet at their local bar”

My response: Many men also have miserable jobs that were supposed to be so rewarding. (Or does that even matter to you?). Luckily, I had a job that was very rewarding.

LDB says; “So, I take this article as a fluffy piece of opinionated and unsubstantiated bunk.”

My response: It sounds like you made some really bad decisions with your life and you don’t want to hold yourself accountable for those decisions. No one forced you to get married and have kids (unless you were a member of the FLDS church).

The subject of “women and work” seems to be a very sensitive area.
This is because it probably is the core issue of the man-woman cooperation called marriage.
Too many women view marriage as a road to financial profit.
They believe that, in return for their company, presence, sex they must be financially compensated.
Why should they be compensated?
It’s a real prostitutes’ mentality.

This whole thing boils down to **PEOPLE HOLDING UP THEIR END OF THE BARGAIN**..Nothing wrong with people not working for someone else if they do that……The problem seems to be the clown courts that allow someone to rob, burglarize, and embezzle from another person at-will when they don’t hold up their end.

I see I had a couple of comments regarding my post. I wonder if any of the men on here can answer this one question. If given the opportunity to have the girl who’s the best looking, the sexiest, and the highest maintenance, or the girl who’s going to stop combing her hair and get plump after the kids come because looks aren’t everything…….which one would they choose? It’s always the same bs with men….(as if women are the only ones out there who are hypocrites). They say they want one thing….(low maintenance women)….and they end up dumping those girls in hopes of a chance at the other ones. Then they get on here and complain about women who want to be taken care of. LOL

@ LDB

Outer beauty eventually fades. Ugly on the inside lasts forever.

Kind Regards,
Dr Tara J. Palmatier

LDB inadvertently makes the case of many men here who have trouble dealing with the modern american woman’s lacking sense of proportion. Yes, some women are vane, stuck up witches. Yes, some women are hags who let themselves go. Yet, isn’t there a gulf of women between those two extremes? Is it really that crazy to want a woman who is nice and who showers occasionally?

Women often complain about men who are abusive. They also complain about men who are wimps. Is there not any men in between? You can not want a wimp, and not want to get beat up. You can want someone who is nicer, and not want a wimp.

LDB, it’ sad you think you were clever. Fact is, it’s possible to want someone who isn’t vain yet washes their hair. Just like it is possible for a woman to want a man who is strong yet doesn’t knock her around when she’s a bit lippy.

You need to learn a little common sense before dating or commenting.

LDB Says “If given the opportunity to have the girl who’s the best looking, the sexiest, and the highest maintenance,…”

My response: Of course all boys want to have the girl who’s the best looking and sexiest just like all girls want to have the boy who’s best looking and sexiest. And of course, the best looking and sexiest girl (and boy) will always be the highest maintenance.

LDB Says “or the girl who’s going to stop combing her hair and get plump after the kids come…”

My response: Why will the girl stop combing her hair and get plump after the kids come? First of all, it just isn’t that hard for a person to comb his or her hair (but, of course, that’s just my opinion). Secondly, motherhood doesn’t make a woman plump. Eating too much food makes a person plump. It could be that the plump woman with the uncombed hair isn’t really trying to take care of herself and that is why she got dumped. I know many mothers who comb their hair and are not plump.

LDB Says “…because looks aren’t everything”

My question: Really? Then why do so many women spend so much money on cosmetics, jewelry, clothes, shoes, etc?

LDB Says “I wonder if any of the men on here can answer this one question.”

My response: Did I answer your question?

LDB Says “…and they end up dumping those girls…”

My question: How many housewives have dumped their husbands?

LDB Says “Then they get on here and complain …”

My response: My only complaint is that you really haven’t yet made an honest attempt to answer the questions that I asked.

LDB Says “about women who want to be taken care of”

My questions: You want to be take care of? In what way? Like a pet? Like a child?

In an earlier post you said…

LDB says: “I wonder why you think a woman who likes to stay at home because she has found that she just can’t satisfactorily delegate her responsibilities to strangers ”

My questions: If a woman sends her children to a public school to be educated by the government (i.e. by school teachers), then isn’t she delegating her responsibilities to strangers? As much as is possible, shouldn’t stay-at-home parents “home school” their own children? If a person is a stay-at-home parent, then why should that person’s child spend so much time in a public school (7 hours a day, 5 days a week except holidays, 9 months a year) ?

A woman who is stay-at-home wife and mother is financially supported by her husband. The government (i.e. the public school system) educates her children. Additionally, modern home appliance technology has greatly simplified her life. I still don’t see what is so hard about her life.

“Being at home for the kids after school, shuttle services and taking care of you are plausible excuses, but they are excuses and flimsy ones at that. Let’s be honest, has your wife achieved Donna Reed status or does she complain about the menial aspects of housekeeping, cooking, laundry and driving the kids everywhere? Do you eat a lot of takeout food and pre-prepared meals?

Keeping a house is not magic and you don’t need to be Donna Reed(she in fact is quite the beginner…:), many housewives are not lazy people and keep a nice home and cook great food. It used to be the norm that people lived like that, and the messy, abusive nightmare your describing is called ‘dossing’, not living

It takes me about 4 hours of work a day to run my home, if I had kids that probably would go up to 8 hours, and from what I’ve seen from the mothers I know, it’s definitely a full time job, no-one can do this properly and have an 8 hour job at the same time without totally demolishing themselves with stress, especially if their practical housewife jiu-jitsu is self-taught. There is much to be said for learning home making early on in life from your mother who learnt it from hers who in turn learnt it from hers and so on — much wisdom is passed on thus and most women have lost it nowadays as their mothers thought it was a useless, obsolete craft that can be trivially picked up by casually reading modern womens mags. It is not, and it makes the difference between running a home with ease or sinking into a Gordian knot of a squalor and chaos!

“A majority of women still harbor the childish wish to be taken care of. The wish to be taken care of is natural, we’ve all had it at one time or another. Usually when we’re scared, sick or uncertain of the future. Then reality kicks in and we remind ourselves that we’re adults and take care of business.”

By voluntarily giving up her career and making herself dependent, she’s infantilized herself and placed an unfair burden on you. Also, if you have a daughter(s), what kind of role model is she setting? Why should you encourage your daughter to go to college much less save for tuition when mom doesn’t use her degree(s)? Your wife is another dependent, just like your children.”

Except that your wife isn’t a child. She’s an adult who refuses to grow up in this respect. Women with a modicum of intelligence and self-respect aren’t happy in this role. They’re stuck; trapped between an insistent, unrealistic wish to be taken care of, the desire to be recognized as an equal and their fear of being an independent adult.”

This is just as bad as any feminist rant that puts down normal women who have a normal life being housewives as dysfunctional , wimpy parasites and not worthy of respect — in fact, it’s the same evil, divisive sermon that promises empowerment and brings distrust into marriages, just delivered to males this time, to make sure that no women dares to be a normal female and feels compelled by social pressure to strive to be an equal serf who happens to entertain marriage as an optional hobby she may or may not indulge in after work.

If you dislike lazy housewives who really are just freeloaders who don’t lift a finger and treat their spouse as a human ATM, I have to agree — they are as bad as men who waste their pay on the gambling table or the cathouse, leaving nothing for the house to run on — but to tar all men as feckless, untrustworthy wasters (etc) would be unproductive — such men and women are simply bad people, but well, if you marry a bad person, then it’s inevitable that bad things will happen.(duh)

Many good housewives actually have a problem with their work in life being looked down upon as something menial that is a waste of time, and being labelled as a childish, IQ-challenged moron not worthy of education also is not all that heartwarming….lol.

Btw, this kind of direct attack on my way of life and it being an affront to decent womenhood(tm) only ever comes from women, never from men. And I heard this line of argumentation many times, either as a motivating speech (you can do it girl, who needs those redundant males!), or, as a shaming device, designed to make me reject a traditional life(who’s be a stupid little woman?). But it’s the first time I’ve seen it used to make a case for enthusing men into policing women to conform to feminist ideals, by making them view traditional women as their enemy that will only thieve from them.

Andrew says: “I still don’t see what is so hard about her life.”

Go visit some of the best mommybloggers’ sites and see what we do all day. One could argue that, because of computers, most office jobs are a piece of cake and men are slackers for choosing those over ditch-digging. (So don’t let’s be insulting, shall we?)

And yes, many of us homeschool rather than turn our kids over to institutions that will make a relentless attempt to paint us as useless parasites just because we don’t have a tax-generating job.

Most women who draw paychecks wind up spending most of their “earnings” on things they wouldn’t need if they were at home (daycare, wardrobe, convenience foods, maid service, gas and other transit costs, and various incidentals), not to mention a goodly chunk of it paid out to the government. I’m not going to go into how having a workforce that includes people who don’t technically need a “job” depresses wages overall!

This article is just one of many reasons that most psychologists are not to be trusted: They overgeneralize and make assumptions based on their own personal biases. It’s a long and inglorious tradition dating back to Freud (who projected his own sexual perversions onto his patients in an attempt to make himself feel more normal).

Also…I know who I am, and I am not my job. Anyone, male or female, who tries to take a shortcut to identity through the Land of Workaday is going to wind up in a world of trouble if they get laid off.

Well said Evelyn…

Re: “But it’s the first time I’ve seen it used to make a case for enthusing men into policing women to conform to feminist ideals, by making them view traditional women as their enemy that will only thieve from them.”
__________

This is why as a man I absolutely refuse to support the men’s movement today: Because far too many involved in the MRM have fought the feminists so long that they are becoming just like em.

OK. so you still havent told us what to do with a woman that REFUSES to get a job, and REFUSES to cut back on spending even though we are not making enough money. This is the road to financial ruin and she refuses to reign in her spending. Now. There is such a thing a “financial abuse” if a husband witholds cash from his wife. What if the wife continues to spend (because she has credit cards and debit cards) and then says “well we have these bills that need to be paid”.

Tell me ladies. Is this financial abuse? Financial terrorism? What rights do I have, as the wage earner, to STOP this??!!!

Mrs. Pilgrim says “Go visit some of the best mommybloggers’ sites and see what we do all day.”

My response: I’m sure that parenthood is a big hassle. But parenthood is a “choice”. Finding employment and earning money is not really a “choice” unless (a) you are independently wealthy or (b) you have the opportunity and willingness to financially sponge off your husband (or ex-husband) or other relatives. No one forced you to have kids. If changing dirty diapers, cleaning up baby vomit and listening to screaming kids all day long doesn’t bring you great joy and happiness, then you shouldn’t have had kids.

Mrs. Pilgrim says “One could argue that, because of computers, most office jobs are a piece of cake and men are slackers for choosing those over ditch-digging.”

My response: That’s an interesting analogy, but I’m not buying it. Here’s why: Anyone who has worked in an office (I did, for many years) knows that office automation devices such as computers do not make office work easy because office managers can and do adjust, i.e. increase, the workload of their employees when office automation devices are brought into an office. In addition to office work, I also have considerable experience with housework. Housework is a piece of cake compared to office work.

Mrs. Pilgrim says “(So don’t let’s be insulting, shall we?)”
My response: Was I insulting? Or did I touch a nerve?

Mrs. Pilgrim says “And yes, many of us homeschool…”

My response: I suspect that only a VERY small percentage of stay-at-home moms home school their children.

Mrs. Pilgrim says “Anyone, male or female, who tries to take a shortcut to identity through the Land of Workaday is going to wind up in a world of trouble if they get laid off.”

My response: Very true. I also believe that anyone, male or female, who tries to take a shortcut to identity through the Land of Marriage is going to wind up in a world of trouble if they get divorced. Additionally, I also believe that anyone, male or female, who tries to take a shortcut to identity through the Land of Parenthood is going to wind up in a world of trouble when the children grow up and leave home.

Mrs. Pilgrim says ” This article is just one of many reasons that most psychologists are not to be trusted:”

My response: In my opinion, the articles on this forum are great, and they are generating lots of good discussion. Just because you don’t like the message doesn’t mean that the message is bad.

Evelyn says: It takes me about 4 hours of work a day to run my home,”

My response: So what do you do during the other 20 hours a day?

Let’s take a look at the life of the average housewife. She cleans house, cooks meals, washes clothes, pays the bills, and cares for her children. However, we should keep in mind that she is doing much of that work for herself; she lives in the house that she cleans and maintains, she wears some of the clothes that she washes, she eats some of the food that she cooks, and she takes care of HER own children. If she were single, she would still have to clean her house, cook her meals, wash her clothes and pay her bills. Of course, she would definitely have less housework to perform, but where would she get the money to support herself? She’d have to get a full-time job. That’s at least 40 hours a week and those 40 hours don’t include the time that she would spend getting ready for work in the morning, commuting to and from work, or eating lunch. On the other hand, the housewife can show up for her “job” in a bathrobe, she is at work as soon as she gets out of bed, she decides when she will eat lunch, and she doesn’t have a boss.

Davidtoo,
Here’s an idea for you – quit your job. Don’t tell your wife ahead of time. Tell her after you have quit your job – And then brace for verbal impact. She will yell, she will scream and she will cry. Do not explain to her why you quit your job. It will only lead to an argument and you may end up getting into trouble. You’ll never be able to reason with her so don’t even try. Tell her that you plan to be a stay-at-home dad and she will need to get a job to support the family.

Drastic situations call for drastic measures.

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