Time For Feminist Women To Stop Acting Like Infants

2010-02-01
By

In the course of development of all human beings, there is a stage where we are infants. Our focus is exclusively on pain and pleasure. In this state, we are totally preoccupied with ourselves; we are short sighted due to our selfish orientation. When we are in pain, or experience the denial of pleasure, we have a violent emotional reaction, and we loudly protest. As we grow older, and become children, we are socialized to consider our impact on other people. If we have responsible parents, when we move into childhood, we are for example taught that it’s not acceptable to hit other children. Children still have a very limited view of the world, and are not yet able to take care of themselves, but they are at least aware that their actions have some impact on others.

Some people’s development is arrested at the infant stage. Other parts of these people have grown-up into children, and still other parts of these same people have grown-up into adults. But if our parents, and society at large, have not demanded that we make this shift from an infant’s selfishness, into sociability, and later into responsibility, then we may stay at the infant stage. It is after all, for many people, both easier and more pleasant to stay at the infant stage. If we are arrested at the infant stage, our pain and pleasure are the sole focus of thoughts and our behavior. In this stage, we have no idea whether our avoidance of pain, and our pursuit of pleasure, has any adverse effects on others. If we are still at this infant stage, we don’t care if we are presented with evidence of adverse effects on others, we will simply ignore such evidence.

Many of the most vocal women in the feminist movement are apparently arrested at the infant stage of development. In spite of lots of independent studies showing that the “advancement” of women is often coming at the expense of men, and children too, these feminists press ahead with their aggressive pro-women feminist agenda. This is why feminist women can’t hear men when men talk logically and rationally about things such as equity and fairness. Infants don’t understand such concepts. It’s too advanced for them. They must grow up before they can engage in such a conversation. The focus at this point in their development must be exclusively on growing up, NOT on an adult discussion of evidence, morals, ethics, impacts, and the like.

Some men in the men’s movement have accused feminist women of being children. This is inaccurate. They are one step behind children — they are still infants. While it is now important that these man-hating feminists grow up and take self-responsibility, in part this sorry state of affairs came about by the way that we “raise” and socialize females. In America, we treat our girls as though they are special, as though they are princesses, as though they have every right to remain in this infant state. For instance, we don’t punish girls for doing things like hitting boys, and when their bodies get older, we don’t send them to jail for their violent transgressions the way that we punish men. Similarly, we have all sorts of special educational programs for girls, plus special government programs for women, and here I am taking about entitlements that are not extended to either boys or men.

These entitlements, which make babies out of women, in most cases, do not extent to men. For example, women can just drop off their new-born baby at a hospital, walk away from the baby forever, not have to take responsibility in any way for the baby. But a father, even a father who was lied to about birth control by his female partner, he will still have to pay child support for 18-20 years. It goes way beyond this, because men are routinely coerced to take responsibility for their own actions. For instance, if a man is unemployed, and he can’t pay child support, he can be and in some instances is, held in contempt of court, and then jailed. Men are also routinely forced to take still more responsibility than their own — they are forced to take responsibility for women and children. Men are for example forced to go to war via the military draft, but no such requirement, not even for some sort of alternative service, none of that applies to women.

The infant perspective held by feminists is evident in one of the most recent press releases coming from the National Organization For Women (NOW). See the 28 January 2010 press release entitled “NOW Echoes President Obama: Don’t Quit on Women,” because it illustrates this infant perspective [link is http://www.now.org/press/01-10/01-28.html]. The press release claims that women are “suffering disproportionately in the current recession — seeing more foreclosures, less health care coverage, worse predatory loan practices and struggling to support their families on incomes depressed by a persistent wage gap.” Of course there is no factual substantiation for these claims; it’s just propaganda. That’s why the many members of the press, even the feminist dominated New York Times, is calling the current recession a “mancession” [link is http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/10/the-mancession/]. The feminist focus only on women, this blindness to the impact of feminist policies, not only on men, but also on children, society at large, our competitiveness with other countries, and other things, all this is a good indication of infant consciousness.

This grown-woman infant consciousness is so widespread that most of us don’t even comment on it any longer. We take it for granted that many women are going to act like infants. I suggest that it’s time for the men’s movement to address the fact that feminists are suffering from arrested development, that feminists are acting like infants. It’s time that we used expert psychological analysis to embarrass the feminists by pointing out how one-sided their demands are, how limited their perspective is, how unfair their viewpoints are. It’s time that the men’s movement pointed out that infants are dependent, and must not be given positions of responsibility, such as a public office or a top management spot at a corporation. To give women these roles risks very serious damage, not just to the person acting like an infant, but all the other people who are in some way involved. Until women start acting like adults, until women are forced by our laws and customs to shoulder both responsibility and accountability like all other adults, they should have no right to even ask to be promoted to leadership positions.

The double-talk inherent in many of feminist statements is that they are pushing for “women’s independence.” But at the same time, these feminists keep asking for more and more special advantages, more and more women-oriented support. They are simply making their already cushy bed still more comfortable at the expense of men and children. Here I am making reference to alimony law, divorce law, child custody law, reproductive law, domestic violence shelters for women only, disproportionate government funds spent on women’s health care research, and many other inequities. These inequities do not make women more independent; instead they foster still greater dependency and enshrine infant consciousness.

What the women’s movement needs now is the removal of special advantages so that women are forced to fend for themselves, are forced to grow up, are forced to deal with the things that men have had to deal with for a very long time. If women are getting most of the college degrees, if women now make up over 50% of the workforce, if women now control more of the wealth in America than men, then of course it is now time for each and every woman to stand on her own two feet. There is absolutely no longer any need, or any logical justification, for special transitional programs to support women in getting into the work force, into college, and the like.

The mark of an adult is that he or she can work with others in harmony, can work out a way to coexist with others. Feminists are abysmal failures in this department, again, because they, in so many instances, have only infant consciousness. Children can consider other people, but adults work toward fair and just solutions to problems. It’s time that we demanded that women join men in the pursuit of such an egalitarian society, join men in an adult conversation about the future. We must stop letting men’s traditional roles as providers and protectors in some way motivate us to once again agree to yet another special advantage for women, or yet another additional support measure for women.

If women want to be respected as adults, then they had better start acting like adults. For feminists to keep demanding more special advantages and more additional support, that is not engendering respect for women. Old-fashioned men used to call women “girls,” but for feminists that designation is kind. Men should instead, to their face, be calling these women “infants.” They don’t deserve our respect. It’s time we abandoned good manners, chivalry, and the indiscriminate respect that men are supposed to show towards all women. We should instead be calling feminist women on their behavior, and explicitly showing how it is exactly the same as the behavior of infants. SO THE FOCUS OF THE MEN’S MOVEMENT SHOULD NOW BE ON WHO FEMINIST WOMEN ARE BEING, HOW THEY ARE BEHAVING, NOT ON THE ADVERSE RESULTS THAT THEIR FEMINIST POLICIES CREATE IN THE WORLD.

While at first this approach may sound impolite and unchivalrous, it would in the long run benefit not just men and children, it will benefit women too. Despite 40 years of heavy-duty feminist influence on America, women are complaining that they aren’t as happy as they used to be [link]. Women are complaining about how feminism is boxing them into certain roles, roles they don’t want to be forced to follow. Women are complaining that feminism isn’t working for them. To force these feminist women to grow up would be good for everybody.

It’s time that we not only gave women a chance to grow up, it’s time that we required that they do so.

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  • Mr. Knight

    Unlike frothing feminists, actual infants don’t tend to be embittered and vengeful.

  • Nicole

    Erm, but aren’t the women who are complaining about feminism the ones who AREN’T feminists?

    Feminists punish their girls for hitting boys, its the old-fashioned conservatives that don’t.

  • Kari

    Sounds to me like someone needs a nap. Way to illustrate having a rational, logical discussion with neither of those characteristics.

    Feminists love to address the independent studies out now such has the one that articulates women are the bread winners in families and that women are unhappier now than a few decades ago; we need to address what these studies mean. However, that doesn’t make us equal. Women are underrepresented in politics, we’re still debating my right to choose, whether or not the G-spot exists (the French say it does), and why while women are the lead earners in families they are still vastly underpaid.

    So yeah, I’m still complaining, and encouraging every other marginalized group to complain too. While men should tackle issues like conventional society’s definition of masculinity and other topics that people never hear of in the media, few are. I’m guessing because conventional society is worried about feminism.

  • Lily

    Your points about men suffering at the hands of feminism are ridiculous.
    There hasn’t been a draft since Vietnam. There will likely never be one again in the Western world. Second, by an overwhelming majority most single parents are women. Third, a woman who divorces her husband and has a higher income will still pay spousal and child support. Fourth, feminism is good for children. A child raised by a mother who believes in gender equality will grow up to live that reality and achieve much higher, particularly if it is a girl. If that’s not a good argument for free child care I don’t know what is.

  • jean

    Nicole,
    No, feminists do NOT “punish their girls for hitting boys”. While it’s true that the old-fashioned conservatives do that, feminists don’t punish their girls for ANYTHING. They WILL, however, punish the closest or first-located male, even if said male is innocent.

    The real problem is, some of us are getting ready to indicriminately strike back – we’ve had enough, since we’ll do the time – might as well do the crime. might even get away with it (ie, there will be someone else who will fit the crime and we’ll get away with it a few times; or, some good may come of it, as in women don’t make false rape claims because when they started one, some man said, “you’ve got me all wrong, lady – I’m not a rapist. I’m a murderer.” You can guess how it goes from there – and some people never get over the anger.

    Beat a dog enough, it will eventually bite you. Then you claim it was violent all along, and put it down. Humans aren’t dogs, which means they can see the progression – and guess what’s going to happen? We can infer we’ll be beaten; we can infer we’ll be deemed violent; we can see that going along peacefully harms us. There’s only one other option, guess what’s going to happen?

  • Virtue

    Amazing…..point out that some women are acting like children and then some women come here and preform the literary equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum !

  • Kayla

    Irony: This article should be referenced in the dictionary for the word as it reads like an infant wrote it.

    And bravo Nicole. Feminist posers give the rest of us a bad name. And really, I do not consider myself a ‘feminist’, I consider myself a humanist. We are all equal.

    My son came home crying when he was in second grade because a girl hit him and he “couldn’t hit her back”. I promptly righted his misconception and told him that of course he could defend himself against ANYONE.

  • Kayla

    Just had to add, ‘Virtue’, that if these comments from women are what you consider ‘temper tantrums’, you need to ease up on the estrogen that you clearly are taking, since you are clearly over-sensitive. ;-)

  • Kayla

    Oh, and Jean, either that is a man’s name, your are a man posing as a woman, or you are a severely misinformed and/or brainwashed woman.

    My condolences.

  • Kayla

    Oooooo, and a shout out to my dad, my brother, my son, and my step son. who were/are all confident enough in themselves that they do not feel they have do denigrate women for speaking their mind and wanting to be treated with respect.

    I am especially grateful to my father (R.I.P.) for raising my brother and I as he did. And he was from ‘The Great Generation’. WWII vet and all. Served the entire war in the South Pacific as a forward observer. And he would kick your asses if need be if you’d even think about suggesting that he was anything less than ‘all man’. LOL.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Kayla

    I find it really interesting that you invoke the model of masculinity, as an implied threat, that second wave feminists have been bemoaning and bashing for over 40 years now.

    We have head from them (you) that is is the archetype responsible for women’s oppression, sexism, racism, war, pollution and just about every other ailment in the world. And now, when a man in 2010 speaks directly to the infantile thinking that brought us all those harsh stereotypes and false demons, here comes a feminist with a not so veiled message that an old school real man would be here kicking ass.

    And that is the true colors of feminism. Men, even their archetypal image, are to be used at the behest of women, and derogated equally when it suits whatever transient belief they want to support at the moment. It is all part of the immaturity and hypocrisy that Mr. Zamboni addressed in his piece, and here you are demonstrating it.

    There is indeed a crisis of maturity with western women. And I think what Mr. Zamboni was alluding to here was that it was not without a lot of help from men. That would be totally correct.

    Society caters to women without demanding much from them, and the fact that you can so easily and temporarily erase the long standing sentiments of feminists to offer up your fathers masculinity as a defense for your irrational ideas is more than proof of it.

  • SingleDad

    @ Kayla

    Your true feelings toward your son come across loud and clear. You don’t care if he spends the rest of his life in prison as long as your ego isn’t upset that a girl beat up your “protector in training”.

    Sorry to have to break it to you, if you so much as look at a woman wrong in the US you go to jail, hit a girl, no matter what your age, go to jail, get raped by a woman, go to jail and pay child support.

    Women are mainly negligent parents like you. I tell my son to not go near a girl. If anyone hits him it is not OK to hit back, go to an authority. If he is afraid for his life, a very rare occurance, do what he has to do to defend himself.

    So no, you love yourself more than you love your son, just like child, as pointed out in the article.

  • Anonymous Woman

    I like how the men who are supposed represented in this article spend all this time complaining about how oppressed they are when, oh wait….women have only had the right to vote for less than a hundred years and still earn an average of 70 cents to every dollar a man earns in the United States. But I thank God every day that I grew up in a country where thanks too (in your mind “backward”) politicans who recognized real oppression. And speaking of REAL oppression….how about the fact that:

    On a GLOBAL level we still have female honor killings, female sex trafficking, female rape as a weapon of terror, acid burnings, and female infanticide to name a few things.

    But yeah, sure, all you amazing men wasting your time on this website still have problems. ;)

    You know what-right back at you Joe-GROW UP. Try to evaluate your own problems a little realistically.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ A-Woman

    “.women have only had the right to vote for less than a hundred years and still earn an average of 70 cents to every dollar a man earns in the United States.”

    Which means you have never even known a woman who couldn’t vote. My landless ancestors couldn’t vote either but I don’t need to wear that around my neck like a medal.

    And women make less money than men because they choose jobs that don’t pay as much. Lesson: Pick up a shovel and head into the coal mine and you will pick up a better pay check.

    You guys REALLY need new material.

  • Joe Zamboni

    It is indeed disappointing that many of the women who have read and commented this post don’t see how their comments fit right in with the psychological profile of an infant. I was hoping that some women, and for that matter, some men, would instead talk about how it is that we can get people who have been acting like infants to grow up.

    As I see it, the first step is to tell the truth about what’s going on. It is not surprising that there is resistance to this the thesis of this article, because if it is shown to be true, then it undermines the credibility of many radical feminist claims and assertions. So the first step, as I see it, is to seriously engage with the notion of infant consciousness, as it is manifested in an adult. This step involves conclusively showing, with ample evidence, how many feminists are acting with infant consciousness. A psychological model for the development of infant consciousness is for example discussed at

    http://the-mouse-trap.com/2007/12/18/development-of-infant-consciousness/

    Of particular interest is Stage 4 in this model by Douglas Newman — the stage where babies are motivated by success. Babies seek to demonstrate both to themselves, and to interested adults, their ability to produce specific effects in their environment. If the feminists are really genuinely interested in producing what is good for all parties involved, why is it that there are so many disenfranchised men and children, hurting from the many adverse side-effects of modern feminism? Perhaps it is time for feminists to definitively demonstrate that their policies and proposals would in fact be good for everybody concerned? Such an effort could help feminists to expand their very limited viewpoint (which is generally focused on females only).

  • Hallie

    This is a harsh article. Somthings I agree with and others I don’t. Simply said and I should leave it at that. Thank you for excercising your right to your opinion, but also, I would rethink your point and the way you name call from the start…

  • Hallie

    But…..that being said I also agree with Joe. He has a point.

  • Joe P.

    Loved Elam’s reply for “Anonymous Woman.” Hard to believe feminists are still pushing that tripe in 2010. I can still recall Hillary mouthing that “77 cents for every dollar” mush during the candidate’s debates and thinking to myself, “She blew it. Who’s going to vote for a perpetual victim?” Can anyone actually NAME an employer who willfully pays women less for the same work? (One that hasn’t been sued, I mean).

    But “A.W” better not ‘pick up a shovel’ (as Paul suggested) if she’s looking for more income. Most of those ‘shovel-ready’ jobs turned into ‘nail polish-ready’ stuff.

  • http://onewoman-domesticviolence.blogspot.com/ One

    “The mark of an adult is that he or she can work with others in harmony, can work out a way to coexist with others.”

    This is so true.

    So, let the key word here be ‘HARMONY’. Feminists are not the majority voice of the female gender. Articles like this present non-feminist women with the a clear yet small opportunity to sieve through the deliberate insinuation of insult and learn. Many like myself can brush off the ugly parts and recycle the general sentiment to take on board our own understanding of the interestingly presented woman hating rant presented.

    Whilst all of us will still have relationships (same sex or otherwise) in our day to day lives, it is important to strike a clear balance that enables the creation of improvement. It would bode well for more positive articles that can transmit the same message. After all we are all human and as human beings we should all do our bit to maintain HARMONY. I will leave it at that.

  • Denis

    Great piece of work. And I could not agree more.

    Maybe we should throw a Pity Party for the American woman.

    I mean, what pathetic losers!

    Women have been catered too so much they are now too damn stupid to see just how good they’ve had it. Going back decades.

    Most male politicians pass laws that favor women over men. It doesn’t matter if these guys are liberal or conservative. Just one case in point, all members but 1 passed the VAWA. Men here don’t need to be educated about the numerous laws in the workplace, in Family Court, and in other areas of life, that favor women. Most men have experienced these firsthand by now. How many female politicians have stood up for true equality and fairness towards men? Even one time.

    Women are overpaid. They are over-promoted. That’s what happens when the Justice Department looks over the shoulder of every company. No corporation wants to be sued for discrimination so they discriminate “positively” to favor women over men. Been true for decades. America is one big You-Go-Girl cheering section. We all pretend to not notice what incompetent idiots so many of you are. When did any man see an incompetent woman get fired? You want more bad behavior? Just keep rewarding it, and you will get more of it. Multiply this by millions all over America.

    Women-at least in the U.S. make horrible mothers. 40 million plus abortions in about 25 years time. Do the math. Statistically, that’s a normalized average of about one-in-three women of child-bearing age killing her own offspring. It doesn’t get too much more horrible then that. Well, okay…when it becomes one-in-two, I guess that would really be horrible. American women truly suck as human beings. Even in the animal kingdom mothers don’t so gleefully murder their own children. Your “right to choose” has really fucked up the world of so many innocent lives. American men have never murdered so many of the defenseless or otherwise. You American women really want to be men instead don’t you?

    When I see American women I see pathetic losers-those who are treated good (unfairly) but yet too damn stupid to stop bitching.

    On second thought-skip the Pity Party.

  • steven deluca

    Someone wrote that therre won’t be a draft – ( I guess that’s so we men can’t say we are required to go to war – trust me, if we are getting our asses kicked they will draft men again) They say there is no draft as if there are not thousands of men suffering from our past wars TODAY while she was writing that response… suffering decades after the war from the days when we still had a draft. Also, girl, I will meet you at the airport when the equal pay for equal work guys come back in body bags and women fly home from the war pretending they took EQUAL risks.

    Feminist today claim that 99 percent of abuse comes from men and in families where there is abuse, children are often hurt. Well, women are the primary perps and it’s sons who are more likely injured or killed but that’s not what we teach, just as we don’t teach that women adjudicated to pay child support have a worse record than “DEAD BEAT DADS” Women always get a pass.

    Today feminist claim that it’s common for PG women to get beat up and to have the fetus die. So many HORRID lies about men and yet a man suggestist feminist act like infants and then infantile feminist have a hissy fit.

    The vote: ” Even Black Men got the vote first” whines infantile feminists. DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because the had equal responsibilities in war, they were, you know, DYING in our wars. We thought they should have a right to vote for them…

    My twin sister, her mother, grandmother and great grand mother had the vote. Her daughter and grand daughter have the vote. Women who were voting were not only supporting the war in Viet Nam – they were making sure that males who refused to go were reported to the police. Men who were AWOL (I was AWOL because I wanted to see my wife for a few days before I went overseas for 14 months ) were being reported by Girls and and women from my wife’s college, a teachers college in Bellingham WA near Canada. They were safe from the war and yet they were turning males in to the cops.

    Some of us are living with 100% disabilities and we think of the 8 women and 58,000 dead men who lost 50 years of life or more. How many years of life did they lose times 58,000 men… and how many combined years of income and votes, add that to feminist statistics and see who gets 77 cents on the dollar. (Google Why Men Earn More, Stossel, on the TV show 20/20 Utube) women don’t get paid less – they also don’t work a double shift. Men get dumped on when they are the ones losing limbs in work and war and paying most of the taxes that take care of infantile women.

    Go Mr. Zamboni, you got a reaction, must be hitting a sore spot.
    SD

    PS I have two screws in my right shoulder, one in my left hip, anemia from cancer, and I challenge any past or current heads of NOW to see how many wheel barrows of sand they can move fifty feet in 10 minutes compared to me. And then ask them who they would hire to put in 8 hours of physical labor, a man who can crank out such work all day, or their staff who not only can’t do that work, they can’t get their own work accomplished without lying … and without trying to suck money out of men’s pants (pockets) while they decide that their work is worth ever so much more than a man who is producing something of value.

  • Mr. Knight

    Mr. Deluca:

    Here is the #1 question:

    WHY do women always get a pass?

    What societal beliefs make that happen?

  • steven deluca

    Why do women get a pass. They ask for it and men give it. Women expect it and men go along. Why do we try to save those cute harp seals with white fur, big eyes, innocent looking, rather than some other creatures that don’t look so feminine.

    Beauty and the beast. Phantom of the Opera. Sleeping Beauty. They put on nice clothes, perfume, a disarming smile, a tear, and some big old dumb guy goes to bat for her in court, at work, in war.

    We don’t want to see women in body bags (but our sons are OK?) We don’t want our daughter’s in coal mines. Some of this is biology and some is culture. Some of it I just go along with as a macho guy. But when they want half of all jobs at the top of the military, officers, pilots, but not the front lines, when they want equal pay for equal work, you know, sitting at NOW HQ writing sexist lies to get more money from men who are “producing” something useful, it’s time to say “cut the crap” and tell women to get in line for the jobs that pay more. Roofing for instance. Where you risk injury or death.
    We tell women if they want more money, then try working 45 hours a week for 30 years like many men do.

    They Why would take books to explain. Warren Farrell’s “Why Men Are The Way They Are” and Christina Hoff Sommers “The War on Boys” then read Judith Kleinfeld, PhD Harvard, Ed. MYTHS about HOSTILE HALLWAYS. (Goggle same)

    AS a boy I was taught to stand when women came into a room. To never hit a girl. To be careful with my language around women. To pay for dates. This was reinforced by moms, dads, teachers in school and Sunday school. Because we worked in the beanfields, berry fields, had a lot of violence, my twin sister and I watched the world carefully. Issues of race, class, and gender were clear to us very young. Getting a 1000% disability from the army while my twin sister and fiance were protectd and hearing women whine about not taking shop class, give me a break.

    I was a cute toubh boy and a handsome tough, well-built man, who was kind also… I didn’t buy the part where I had to “earn” a woman by providing for her because my male body wasn’t equal, because my gender was inferior. More guys need to stop opening doors in the work place, stop kissing “hands” bowing down to marry, stand up, look her in the eye and treat her as an equal. We also need to help those men who were taught to be slaves for women, providing, apologizing for not being Brad Pitt of Phil Donahue, and just be men.

    I know that’s a mixed up answer and I don’t quite know why you asked, but we men really don’t treat our selves as equals… while women complain that we don’t treat them as equals. When my children’s mom and I worked with teen kids in a group home, flowers were delivered one day. They assumed they were from me to my wife when they were from my wife to me. They talked about that for a week.

    SD

  • Kayla

    @ Single dad:

    Sigh. Well, for one I never even considered my ego as a part of it, that never crossed my mind period, why would it. And he wasn’t crying cuz he was ‘beat up’. He was mad that he got hit, but he was crying because a woman crossing guard saw it and did nothing. You can bet if my son had hit the girl first, or possibly even in self defense, that git would have stepped in. She was/is probably the kind of *sshole feminist that gives women a bad name, or she would have stepped in when my son got hit. And he was 7, not 17, when this happened. 7 year old’s tend to cry more often, be they boys or girls.

    So I read the article again. And though I would not retract any of my comments towards the other commentors, the author is 100% right about those feminists who do act as he is lamenting. It is women like that who make the rabid, seemingly* woman hating commentors so, well, rabid. Such as you who somehow took away from my comment that I don’t care about my son. Whatever.

    To those who would apply the traits and beliefs of sniveling, rabid, feminists to all women, I wish you’d stop it. And I also wish women who think all men are macho woman haters would stop it too. Some of actually just want equality, don’t lump us in with ‘man hating feminists’.

    And equality means equality. Not favoritism. If a woman wants to be a fire fighter or fight on the front lines she should be given the opportunity just like any man. But biology says that a lot of women would never be qualified. Myself included, well, front lines maybe, but not firefighter, or any other profession that requires strength. I am not that physically strong. So if I’d whine when denied being a firefighter, I’d be a fool.

    I was raised in the same world as you. I was also taught that men should open doors for women and pay for dates, but then my parents were of the older generation (I’m 43, but my mom and dad, if still alive, would be 80 and 90 respectively). My chores as a kid where washing dishes and cleaning the house. My brother’s chores were shoveling snow, mowing the lawn, and walking the dog. Do I hold this against my parents? Hell no. They didn’t assign our chores as such because they were sexist, they assigned them that way because that’s the way they were raised. They treated my brother and I with equal love and respect. Times have changed though, and while I appreciate it when a man holds the door for me or pays for dinner, I do not expect it, nor should I.

    I did raise my son to open doors for women though, it seems the polite thing to do. On the flip side, I raised my daughter to not expect that, but to be appreciative of it. And my son washes dishes and my daughter mows the lawn, and vice/versa, depending on who’s available at the time.

    *by ‘seemingly’ I mean just that, they seem to be rabid. I could be wrong. Maybe they just need to work on their delivery. :o )

  • Kayla

    And Mr. Deluca, women shoudln’t get a pass, but you do realize Beauty and the Beast was written in 1771, Phantom of the Opera in 1910, and Sleeping Beauty in 1959?? Do you really think the world is still like that as a whole, well, modern western society anyway? It’s not, we’ve come a long way.

    I could go on, but I’ll just defer to One’s message of harmony. She’s so right. And maybe you didn’t mean women ALWAYS get a pass as Mr. Knight clearly stated. You did make some good points, so don’t think I am slamming everything you wrote. Unless of course you do think women always get a pass. Cuz I assure you, we don’t. I’m lucky enough to have never been treated that way as an adult (childhood kind of doesn’t count, cuz we’re all learning how to act as responsible adults, so childhood mistakes for the most part shouldn’t count).

    Well, I guess I should retract that. My woman hating (if I’d have only known) ex-husbandd didn’t treat my very well at all. But that didn’t turn me into a man hater. I had/have my dad, and my son, and my many male friends, neighbors, and co-workers to remind me every day that most men are great.

    That said, I know first hand how a woman, or a man, could fall into that hole. For months after my marriage imploded I felt that all men were *ssholes. I knew in my head that this was not true, but could not stop myself from feeling that way. I have thanked my best (male) friend Jeff more than once for helping me thru that bleak time in my life. And I encourage any man or woman who is feeling that all of the opposite sex are reprehensible, to look around themselves and soak up the kindness and compassion that is most of humanity.

  • SingleDad

    If your are a woman truley interested in helping men that would be great. In 20 years, I have only met two. Your unwillingness to even consider that you gave your son bad advice, somehow makes me skeptical.

    Most women silently tacitly support the most rapid feminists. That this is true is seen all around us. Men are not willing to ignore this anymore because, while we were raised to see ourselves as disposable we don’t see our son’s that way.

    So feminists will have a fight on their hands, we love our son’s and will not go silently into the dark hole feminists have dug for us.

  • Kayla

    Single Dad:

    Hmmmm. You are right. I have not considered that I may have given my son bad advice. While I am pretty certain that in principle it was good advice, in practicality maybe not.

    And wow, if you felt/feel disposable because of the way you were raised, or because of your experiences growing up, that is really sad. I mean it, no one should be made to feel that way.

    Your statement that in 20 years you have only met two women who are interested in helping men though? That makes me skeptical of you. And I don’t mean to imply that you are a bad person or have bad intentions, but if that is truly your experience it makes me wonder where you were brought up, and where you live now. And what kind of thoughtless, misguided people made you feel that way.

    I live in the midwest, in a larger town, that is in a blue state. (I’ve lived in the midwest in blue states my entire life, small towns up until I was almost 20). There are plenty of conservatives here, but being a blue state, well, you get the picture. I’m a liberal, but I have conservative friends, and while I don’t always agree with them, I respect thier opinions, and they have made me change my mind about things more that once. Not as much as they’d like though. I’m not going to try to come off like some altruistic, 200% non-biased wonder woman. The fact is that once we reach adulthood our core values and opinions are ingrained, and it’s hard to sway us. The best we can do is try to keep an open mind.

    I was raised to believe that everyone has value, that none of us are disposable. If a person is religious or spiritual in any way I don’t see how they could think any differently.

    And your statement “Most women silently tacitly support the most rabid feminists.” How could you know this?? If it is silently tacit, that would mean that you would have no way of knowing, not that I can think of anyway. Which I suppose doesn’t mean much, LOL. But seriously, if all but two of the women you have met in the last 20 years are involved in a conspiracy against men, how do you know of it?? I’m not being facetious, I’d really like to know.

    Do you have a daughter? Does your mother think you are disposable?

    And if you are challenging me to want to help men (which I do), then I challenge you to want to help women, and not bash them at every turn.

  • Joe P.

    Kayla asks, “How does Single Dad know that most women “tacitly support rabid feminists?”

    Because he understands human nature and is a good judge of character. I suspect that he is NOT a liberal, is competitive at work and play, likes sports, and is probably a good card player.

    A good analogy is radical islam. In their heart of hearts most muslims feel some twisted sense of pride and justification after every atrocity committed by these lunatics. Remember the dancing in the streets all over the Middle East after 9/11?

    Why?

    Because muslims, like Western women, have been force-fed the notion that they are abused, discriminated against, and disadvantaged at every turn for so long that they believe (at least some of it) must be true. For feminists and their enablers, these outdated, no longer relative absurdities continue to be reenforced because too many people are making money by perpetuating them.

  • Kayla

    Single Dad:

    Wow, I just read a review of Alec Baldwin’s book about his divorce and experience with the California legal system (a link from Men’s News Daily). I was appalled at Alec’s poor treatment. This is what I meant by “Where were you raised?”. My experience with the Wisconsin legal system was the exact opposite. Each parent is required to go to classes that drill linto our heads that you should NEVER speak disparagingly to your children about your soon to be ex spouse.

    I was divorced in the mid 90′s. Does this speak to the difference in society in general in Wisconsin as opposed to California? Is that why I don’t get how so many men can believe that all women are out to get them. My ex husband was a drug abusing, abusive, woman hating b*stard. And he didn’t treat his son that well either (from his first marriage, our son was barely 3 when we divorced, and for some reason his father always treated him well). I never said one bad word to either our daughter, our son, or my step-son about their father. And I think I may have been tempted had it not been for the classes. Common sense told me that to bad-mouth him would be a really bad idea for the children, but I am glad that the classes reinforced this.

    And I did my best to impart to my daughter that all men are not like her father. I did not bad-mouth her father to her, but she was 13 when we divorced, and had witnessed and experienced his wrath and abuse first hand. All I could do was tell her that her father loves her (I 100% believe that), but that he grew up with an abusive mother and his father died when he was 14, and he was just reacting to that. I told her it was no excuse, but that she shouldn’t condemn him for it. I don’t condemn him for it, his upbringing is what makes me not hate him. Not that I have any interest in ever talking to him again, but he got the short end of the stick for sure. It is another reason that I am so thankful that my father was around then as an example to his grand-daughter that most men are not like her father.

    I really have no idea if society in general in Wisconsin or California is anything like it’s legal system, but it makes you stop and think.

    The reviewer of the book was a woman from Ohio (I would imagine it is much like Wisconsin). She said “When I first heard that Alec Baldwin was writing a book about his divorce and the ruthless custody battle between him and his ex-wife Kim Basinger, I had to wonder in how many ways he would seek to slander her. I, like most of the ignorant public, considered Baldwin a volatile man, having seen his assault of a paparazzi on the news after the birth of his daughter Ireland and having heard the notorious and venomous voice mail he left for his daughter in 2006 (courtesy of the slimy celebrity news network TMZ). However, after reading an excerpt available online from the chapter entitled “Olives and Cheese”, Baldwin’s prose and outpouring of love for his daughter and the desperation to be a significant part of her life deeply swayed me to pick up a copy. I did so on November 1st, 2008 and once I began reading it, I could barely put it down.”

    I have always liked Alec as an actor, and love him in 30 Rock, and just couldn’t wrap my head around what I thought was the fact that he was the same man portrayed as a pariah by the media during his divorce.

    I was/am that same ignorant public. I am going to read his book.

    This is why women should be exposed to things like Men’s News Daily. To open up our eyes. I don’t even remember how I came upon it, but I’m glad I did. By the same token men should be exposed the femaile version of this. I don’t have any suggestions because I do not read women’s magazines, nor am I a reader of women’s websites. I do however love lifetime movies (that was supossed to be funny).

    You may wonder why I would marry such a man. Didn’t I see the signs. Well, yes I did, but I was young (19) and dumb. Though I saw the signs, I did not truly understand what they meant. And my therapist (whom I saw for a few months after my divorce) says I put up with his behavior for so long because I was also raised by an abusive parent. My mother. Fortunately I had my father to offset this. My mom was nowhere near what my ex-husband’s mother was though. My mom loved me, and for the most part treated me with respect. But she had her moments, bad ones. She was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, mostly the Dr. but with enough Hyde thrown in to cause some damage. I told myself I would never treat my children like she treated me. And I have not.

  • http://gescheidenvaders.multiply.com AdVader

    Even if modern women (feminized, brainwashed&misformed by the pill-hormones) seems to ‘connect’ they will never co-operate especially as a parent, transaction analyses must point out that women project terms as ‘grown up’ as an argument to suppress others and to hide how childish they behave themselves. You may call it dumb also but they are dissociated, inhumanized and deadsick. Women love to feel (emotional) safe protected and comforterd, they love to be provided in material things, the state ‘makes’ them inhuman like robots, they ‘think’ they becoime ‘better’ (pseudologica fantastica), borderliners are developing and true love&freedom ruined! womens rights – over other peoples lives – are inhuman! Stop the dirty pedologic war against children&fathers, hetero’s and normal families, FamlyLife-4-Children&Fathers! Stop the western crimes against people, mankind and humanity!

  • steven deluca

    Kayla,

    I am not sure after reading some of your posts, why you made the point of how long ago Beauty and the Beast or Phantom was written. I am 63 – my mom, grandmother, twin sister, her daughter and her grand daughter have all been brought up in a culture where the idea that girls are a princess to be swept off their feet reigns. Look at the covers of women’s “romance”novels. Men are taught that they must make money to be worthy of women.

    I watched Phantom a few years ago in New York, and my wife took her daughter and son to see it in SF not long ago. If those stories were a thousand years old that doesn’t mean they don’t influence today, consider the impact of the Bible.

    Barbi dolls, – girls and women wearing Princess shirts and Princess in gold letters (Or JUICY!)across their butts in sweats, and PJ’s makes my point. No man wears juicy across his ass or Prince or King on his shirt.

    For research for books about gender I have read many women’s magazines, watched many movies, the theme of “what can a man do for me” is common. Oprah has a show on eligible men, what do they have in common? – they were not preschool teachers and nurses, not those sensitive guys. Rich and famous or at least “well off.”

    And the women ask “Where would you take me on a dream date? What would you say to me to get me to fall in love with your. Oprah and crew bashed men for their audiences for decades, poor Oprah abuse by men and making sure that women and men know that men abuse women and girls… so she puts millions into her school for girls only and then an adult female sexually abuses a few of the girls and Orpah shows up, hands out cell phones to each girls and then later finds a 15 year-old girls is sexually abusing many girls. And still others act as if women don’t do such things because females are “Sugar and Spice” and not rats and snails and how do they know?- because that’s what the tell each other on TV, in magazines, books, women’s studies, advertising and now in schools and courts.

    We are in a culture where a little boy says to his feminist teachers “men are pigs” and she doesn’t say “no they are not” she asks “why do you think that” and she doesn’t argue or suggest that some men and women are pigs but most are kind. Why does she leave him feeling that way because it’s not in her best interest to have this little boy grow up equal with his sisters. She wants male guilt and a sense of obligation to pave her way to easier jobs for more money.

    I have worked with teen girls in Hawaii, teen boys and girls in CO, I have worked in police work, worked with seniors and from small children to the elderly in larger groups, have watched dozens of families… Boys are told to stand when women appear, to pull chairs out, and to pay for the dates, – to get down on one knee, as if to a queen, haven’t you noticed, do you call that romantic… if so you are blind to what that act of submission really shows.

    And I see that for most peole it still makes sense that just as the Titanic went down, and old ladies were saved while young men drowned, when Sully Sullenberger’s plane went down last year it was the same call. Not young families first but women and children first. They were willing to let young males die so that very old women could live. We call those young men heros but they had no choice.

    Today feminists want to have safe warm jobs for women to pay the same as jobs that kill men if not simply ruining their health.

    The princes theme lives. From “The Liittle Mermaid” to Xena Warrior Princess – to young women saying “I am high maintenance” which means pay for my company sucker.

    You might assume that I am a man who doesn’t like or get along with women. I get along with many women very well, those few who are not bigots.. I think most American women are tainted by PC views of men. Not my wife, not my daughter, and maybe not you, but most women are.

    Reminder. Or if you don’ know… I have a 100% disability from the army that has impacted my life for decades. I am not bitter about that. The VA paid for my children’s college and my wife’s graduate work. I am alive, somewhat healthy, while 58,000 men missed the last 4 or 5 DECADES! of life, love, voting. Meanwhile women who out – lived them and out lived the 8 women who died in Viet Nam write articles suggesting that only their gender paid a price for gender and that American men owe American women a great debt because we oppresse them. It’s all bullshit.

    My twin sister and first wife graduated from high school when I did. Neither were drafted… women have had the vote for many, many years. Treating them like a princess means not sending them to war or the coal mines – in the past, or today. Open your newspaper last week, today, or next week. What percentage of the men and women in Iraq are being killed? Women put a stop to not getting the vote and with the vote they have pushed for many perks and privilages but they are not pushing for equal deaths at work for higher income, equal custody, equal graduation rates in college, equal funding for health issues. It’s not equality feminist want, they want to be treated like a princess while bashing men who are living with disabilities, from work and war, while ignoring the death jobs that men gravitate to to get the cash needed to treat his wife like “a queen” as many women claim they need – A man saying he wanted to be treated like the King in his castle would be mocked.

    Take care Karla – You don’t seem a bad person but you might want to read “The War on Boys by Christina Hoff Sommers” or “The Myth of Male Power” by Warren Farrell PhD or “Big Sister” … Feminist women don’t want to waste time talking gender with “clueless” men and they ask men to read feminist books to get the language. And if you ask them if they have read books by men’s rights guys, or dissident feminists, or equity feminists, they give you a blank look and sometimes say “why should I” … they claim it’s all “HIS STORY” as in history. If they read such books they would realize how blind they have been – not really. They would argue each point because in their hearts many of them really do believe men are pigs and women are – if not angels, at least a princess.

  • http://gescheidenvaders.multiply.com/ AdVader

    Feminism has infiltrated politics and falsified norms&laws one-sided and untrue. Empowerment is about charactermurder of men, they say all men are rats to work their way to the top, mind you, they already control care&children (cheated with love), now they must have the power&money. It is as Stephen Baskerville writes ‘married with the state’, an anti-male hostile alliance by means of children, he also wrote ‘taken into custody’, ‘molested by the state’ and ‘divorced from reality’ governmentviolence&mothermaffia. Steven Deluca do you recognize also the one-liners “what have you done for me lately” vs. “what can you do for your country”? Real Love&Freedom are the victims of this insane reality, only deviant borderliners (e.g. single defathering mothers, lesbo’s, defathering fathers) ‘think’ they get ‘better’ of all the destructions of other peoples lives. Poor children mostly their father and his family, FamilyLife-4-Children&Fathers.

  • A Lonely Dad

    WOW!!! Women acting as INFANTS!!!! How True a comparison!! Today’s “wimmin” with their whing, crying, cooing, and screaming are just like infants. They act as if they are helpless to do anything for themselves, and if they would do something, and screw it up, it is everyone eles mess to clean up and take care of, no matter how nasty it is. Just like the proverbial up the fronter, up the backer, down the legger, a mess just like a REAL INFANT would make. And expect others to clean up!!!

  • MRA

    “SO THE FOCUS OF THE MEN’S MOVEMENT SHOULD NOW BE ON WHO FEMINIST WOMEN ARE BEING, HOW THEY ARE BEHAVING, NOT ON THE ADVERSE RESULTS THAT THEIR FEMINIST POLICIES CREATE IN THE WORLD.”

    Nonsense; and you are either dumb or deceptive. Your whole discourse on feminism makes no sense.

  • MRA

    “So, let the key word here be ‘HARMONY’.”

    Not possible. See Battle Of The Sexes. Why is it that women/feminists suddenly want “harmony” and “peace” once men talk about their interests a sex, once pro-male sexual politics are on the cards. Seems they are all for conflict between the sexes when it suits them. Then they call for pacifism when it does not.

    “Feminists are not the majority voice of the female gender.”

    They are actually.

    “Whilst all of us will still have relationships (same sex or otherwise)”

    So you’re a “anti-heteronormativive” too, eh, feminist?

    You’ve no place in the masculinist/men’s movement, feminist woman.

  • MRA

    “So yeah, I’m still complaining, and encouraging every other marginalized group to complain too.”

    Men are the most marginalized group in Western Civilization today. You are a self-serving bitch and a compulsive liar like all feminist women.

    We all know these facts, including yourself.

    Note from editor: Tone it down

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ MRA

    Don’t make my job hard here. Post objections to feminists as you please here, it’s what we do. But please try to up the quality with more than just name calling.

    Editor

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2ZDZKX52G2P6KL3QU6ET2PBKSQ Tim

    Personally, I think the author is misunderstanding what is actually going on.  There is nothing inherently wrong with Feminism as a concept.   However, always putting down males certainly will not help her chances in finding a long term relationship partner.

    I would agree that many women (and men) act like spoiled princesses/princes because everything has been taken care of for them, thereby delaying their maturing process.  Most of the time it is caused by ill advised parents who truly think they were doing a good by not allowing their child to struggle.   No parent wants to see their child suffer, but struggle, stress, and strife in life is the only path to fully maturing a person. 

    In short, feminism has little to do with the way someone is.  It is a choice.  If a women makes a choice to put men down and try to always dominate their relationship because of some inadequacy/immaturity within themselves, then the male partner that puts up with it deserves everything he gets.  Many extreme feminists might tell you that they hate men, but it has always been my experience that it is only because they are unable to find a partner who will put up with their immaturity.     






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