Michael Kimmel Defends NOMAS, Misandry and the Promotion of Bigotry

2010-02-04
By

Recently I posted an open letter to Dr. Robert Brannon of the National Organization of Men Against Sexism (NOMAS) regarding their upcoming conference on men and masculinity.  The letter was also sent to Dr. Brannon via Email.

In it, I expressed concerns over what appears to be positions and activities by NOMAS that are in diametric opposition to their stated goal of “enhancing men’s lives,” namely the absence of any attention to the many legitimate struggles faced collectively by men and boys in modern culture. I also expressed concern over their pervasive negative stereotyping of men as violent, power obsessed anathemas to civilized society.

The email also included a suggestion that they support the upcoming Male Studies Symposium at Wagner College, which brings an objective and academically sound approach to studying the condition of men and boys in modern culture.

On behalf of NOMAS, I was contacted with a response via email by Michael Kimmel, a sociology professor at Stony Brook, State University of New York, purportedly to address the concerns of my letter.

Unfortunately, in a few thin paragraphs Kimmel managed only to amplify the concerns about NOMAS’s activities and confirms the crypto-misandric sexism that is clearly the true agenda of the organization.

Here is Kimmel’s complete and unedited response:

Paul:

Bob Brannon circulated your email message about the National Conference on Men and Masculinity, sponsored by NOMAS.  I thought I would take a minute to reply.

NOMAS is a unique organization about masculinity because it rests on four co-equal principles, just as a table rests on four legs.  (1) We are pro-feminist, which means we believe in gender equality.  (2) We are gay-affrmative, which means we suppor the rights of all men to live lives of dignity and love, free of all discrimination, regardless of their sexuality.  (3) We are anti-racist, which means that, again, we support the rights of all men to live lives of integrity and love, free of all discrimination, regardless of their race.  (4)And we believe in “enhancing men’s lives” by which we mean that we want to enable all men to live lives of integrity and happiness.

Unlike other organizations, we believe that all four of these elements are essential — indeed, we believe that one cannot enhance men’s lives without committing to the struggles against racism, sexism, and homophobia.  These four principles cannot be separated.

Our conferences, therefore, address many of the issues you raise  But we raise them in context – a social context in which, sadly, gender, racial and, sexuality discrimination and inequality are still very much with us.  So, we will discuss many of the themes you raise — Intimate Partner Violence, parenting, engaging men as involved fathers, sustaining that involvement after divorce, engaging boys in school, health issues and epidemiological disparities — and many that you don’t mention, like the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, the crisis of black males in the inner city, supporting gay fathers as involved fathers, HIV risk reduction.  However, I suspect by placing them in the larger contexts of persistent institutional and interpersonal inequalities, as we do, we probably won’t agree very much about how to remedy these problems.

I should point out, though that the national Conference on Men and Masculinity includes a Men’s Studies Conference, which, together with the American Men’s Studies Association’s annual conference – both of which have been taking place for about two decades — provides ample evidence that a robust and healthy field of Masculinity Studies already exists and is well institutionalized in the U.S. and abroad.  This includes several international journals, 3 encyclopedia sets, a several theoretical and methodological handbooks for people researching the field, and numerous books series and other materials.  No need to think your conference at Wagner is “creating” a new field.  The field is strong, diverse, and remarkably exciting already.  I myself have been working to build this field for nearly 30 years.

Good luck.

Michael Kimmel

Michael Kimmel
Department of Sociology
SUNY at Stony Brook
Stony Brook, NY 11794
phone: 631-632-7708
FAX: 631-632-8203
michael_kimmel@yahoo.com

www.michaelkimmel.com

Now, the largely non responsive and dismissive language Kimmel uses, combined with the activities of the organization, raises a fundamental question, not only about NOMAS, but about the entire field of “men’s studies” as it is practiced today.

Are these people academicians pursuing the study of masculinity to enhance the lives of men and boys, or are they simply educated political whores, seeking to repress any legitimate studies in the area they claim to represent?

Even cursory objectivity confirms the latter.

First, there are the four legs of NOMAS’s metaphorical table, none of which support the weight of the organizations hypocrisy.  They fail the strength test in the following four ways:

1) Confining the belief in equality to feminists is disingenuous and incredulously infers that disagreement with feminist ideologues amounts to being anti-equality.  It also ignores the great body of feminist literature that is misandric and advocates female superiority.  2) Being supportive of men and boys cannot be tied legitimately to a political agenda based on sexual orientation any more than it can be based on shoe size.  It is a non sequitur clearly driven by political motives. 3) The issues of men and boys are not a function of race, unless you consider how legislation like VAWA, which NOMAS supports,  inflicts disproportionate damage on African-American communities already brimming with disenfranchised men.  Leg three of their table is a race card played to garner support from one of the communities that suffers the most from their work. 4) This is the most unstable leg of NOMAS’s table in that it is predicated on a complete and clearly intentional falsehood.  A very limited overview taken from NOMAS’s website points unambiguously to how they view the majority of men:

NOMAS denounces father’s rights groups as “male supremacist” and accuses them of encouraging child abuse. In reality it is NOMAS that encourages real harm to children by actively undermining the father-child bond on a broad social scale. NOMAS asserts that the only reason a father would fight an allegation of abuse by the mother during a divorce, or attempt to gain access to, or custody of, his child, is to “punish her for leaving.”

And that is just one of many outrageous slurs from NOMAS against the people whose lives they claim to “enhance.”

NOMAS endorses the New York Model dealing with batterers, which identifies them as unsuitable for psychological treatment and better handled through the criminal justice system, even while they steadfastly cling to the myth that domestic violence is a male only offense.  The result of this can only be that female batterers are enabled to repeat abuses on spouses and children, and men alone are identified as perpetrators and are incarcerated as incorrigible social liabilities.

NOMAS, though the words of their founder, Robert Brannon, suggests that men who hire prostitutes are rapists, because prostitutes cannot be considered to be making an informed decision to engage in sex for money.  In doing so, he creates false victims of women and false perpetrators of men with a line of reasoning so myopic it could only be the result of an underlying agenda.

NOMAS officer Barry Goldstein, who is also co-chair of the organizations Task Group on Child Custody, argues that family courts are biased- against women.  In a glaring example of denial that would shame an alcoholic, Goldstein totally reverses the reality of family courts that are corrupt and biased against fathers, and presents us with a fantasy world in which we need to take action to provide women even more leverage in a system that is already rigged in their favor.

This is the same strategy common throughout the NOMAS organization, which appears to follow the same disturbing methodology- determine the political position on an issue, generate evidence by any means necessary that supports the agenda, ignore any evidence that doesn’t support the agenda (and if evidence can’t be ignored, demonize the messenger), and finally, present the information to the world at large with the fraudulent claim that it was a result of scholarly investigation.

This brings to the sad reality that we are in, and have been for some time, a crisis of authenticity in the study of men and boys.  And a crises of moral integrity.

In fact, there is very little legitimate pursuit of male studies and organizations like NOMAS are playing their part as much as possible not to advance those studies, but to make sure they never happen. One element of the repression is demonstrated by Kimmel resting on 30 years of pursuit of those studies, which has not resulted in a single men’s studies degree.  And we witness another as we watch women’s studies programs across the nation begin to change their name to “gender” studies, with no corresponding change in curriculum. The ploy here is obvious.  ”Gender studies” implies coverage for both males and females, even when coursework and degree programs tailored for men do not exist.  It is a preemptive move designed to forestall the inevitability that at some point the detrimental effects of misandry, as furthered by organizations like NOMAS, would require scholarly investigation in order to ameliorate.

The posturing from Kimmel is symbolic of that crisis, and common to those who embrace the unwholesome marriage of activism and scholarly pursuits.  For what Kimmel asserts here is not a quest for knowledge, but personal and organizational hegemony over an entire field of study.  It is an arrogant and dangerous approach that, by necessity, corrupts scholarly integrity to serve a political agenda.

And indeed this is the stated creed of NOMAS, who on their website openly declare that they are “activist scholars.”  It is a quintessential oxymoron, exposing the fact front and center that these men are no more scholarly than Dr. Phil.

In what is purely political activism on behalf of feminists, the gay and lesbian community and other “victim groups,” NOMAS and a host of other organizations and university departments have surrendered their academic credibility and acted to repress any legitimate investigation of the male condition. And in doing so, they have taken on the authoritarian tone reminiscent of the medieval church, clinging hostilely to the orthodoxy they serve in the face of emerging science and enlightenment that they view as a threat.

Miles Groth, Ph.D., is a professor of psychology at Wagner College, which will host the Male Studies Symposium sponsored by the On Step Institute in April of 2010.  In email communications I questioned Dr. Groth about the philosophical differences between the prevailing model of “men’s” or “gender” studies now in place in universities across the western world, and the “male studies” initiatives like the one underway by the On Step institute.

“Gender Studies programs and departments claimed to include as many courses on men as on women,” says Groth, “In fact, courses such as “Psychology of Men” or “Literature by and about Men” are rare, both as stand-alone courses in departments or in Gender Studies curricula (usually as electives). Often such courses are not welcome and there is pressure on faculties to reject the acceptance of such courses—unless they explicitly indicate that they are grounded in profeminist ideology.” [Italics mine]

Groth goes on to state that the Male studies initiative was actually a reaction to this reality. “Such restrictions have led to the current initiative, begun several years ago by the On Step Institute and launched on May 27, 2009, with a conference at NYU’s Steidhardt School of Culture, Education and Human Development on “The Future of Men,” to form a Male Studies department at a major research university.”

“The goal is to begin by creating Male Studies programs, then undergraduate degrees in this academic discipline. Ultimately, there will be a master’s and terminal (PhD) degrees offered in the discipline. Hence the name of the Wagner teleconference–“Male Studies: A New Academic Discipline.”

So, contrary to the assertions of Kimmel, which rest on the wobbly table with the rest of NOMAS’s rhetoric, Male Studies is, in fact, a new discipline.  And it is bound to raise even more ire as it gains momentum.

But in the words of Mahatma Ghandi, a prime example of masculinity and an icon of activism, “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

It appears round one is about to start.

You can support the On Step Institute by attending Male Studies Conference online.  The cost is $15.00, and the proceeds will go to helping OSI establish Male Studies as a new academic discipline that will genuinely enhance the lives of men.

Paul Elam is the Editor-in-Chief for Men’s News Daily and the publisher of A Voice for Men.

1,754 views

  • SingleDad

    Interesting that John Stuart has was taking pot shots at us on his show as descibed here, today, at Salon. Interesting also that a commenter on that article used your quote regarding the progress of our movement.

    http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/the_daily_show/index.html?story=/mwt/broadsheet/2010/02/04/daily_show_male_inequality

  • Bizzman662

    I can see it now…..

    In the past hearing to re-authorize the VAWA…..NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE, NO TESTIMONY FROM OUR SIDE and NO ‘REAL’ SUPPORTER OF MEN OR FATHERS RIGHTS WERE ALLOWED TO TESTIFY.

    I’ll bet EVERYTING I HAVE in this world that NOMAS will be asked to speak at the hearing coming up in 2010……so they can say….”See, we allowed a “Mens” group to speak and give testimony……..

    PASS…….With a 25% INCREASE in funding.

    Meanwhile, Josephine Biden laughs all the way to the BANK…..at the expense of MILLIONS of MEN AND GOOD FATHERS….

    THIS ENTIRE SITUATION IS SICK.

  • http://huntingforarchetypes.blogspot.com Factory

    I tell you Paul, I am simply AMAZED at the progress made in the last 5 years…

    When you have an Academic Discipline on the horizon, and get Lampooned on BOTH the “Daily Show” and “Colbert Report” (two of the biggest comedy shows on the air)…well, that’s a damn good day, I say.

    There is no such thing as bad publicity…those two shows put the phrase “mens Rights Activist” and “MRA” in front of more people that the sum total of the rest of us, I would think…

    The obvious “gagging” of the people involved, and the blatant editing to ridicule, will drive a LOT of curious people to these sites…

    The frequency of exposure is increasing too, seemingly exponentially.

    What we need to do now, is popularize this thing.

    We need an Ad Campaign, and no, I’m not kidding.

    I propose you, I, and the usual suspects go over this, and try to come up with cohesive branding… I don’t think we can let this wait for too much longer…

    Things is about to blow…

  • http://dannyscorneroftheuniverse.blogspot.com Danny

    As Paul said in his letter:
    share an active interest in the same issues as your organization, namely, as stated in your principles, “enhancing men’s lives.” In that light, I wish to pose some concerns to you regarding your conference and other aspects of your organization.
    Paul tried to act in good faith by acknowledging that NOMAS is trying to enhance men’s lives and was trying to bring more to the table. Kimmel’s response was pretty much, “We’ve already done all that.” even though Paul clearly shows they have not.

    (1) We are pro-feminist, which means we believe in gender equality.
    New rule: Anyone that chimes off that they are pro-feminist or feminist as if that automatically means they are above question when it comes to gender equality should be laughed at.

    Time and time again I’ve seen people claim to be for gender equality and then turn around and say/do things that directly contradict that statement.

    Despite the good members of that movement have done its still not enough to just delcare that feminist is synynomous with gender equality. I know that for the sake of PR a lot of them wish that were the case but its not.

  • DonnieH

    The “men” over at NOMAS sound like nothing more than feminist sock puppets . . .

    The “four legs” reads like a personals’ ad on Cr@igsL$t (I like puppies and kittens, and long walks on the beach). I apologize in advance for the shaming language, but I’m embarrassed to (presumably) be the same gender as these clowns.

  • Mr.K

    The sequel to movie Alice in Wonderland is set to open March 2010. In the Lewis Carroll original version the Queen shouted “Verdict first, trial afterwards”. The NOMAS agenda seem to reflect similar version of the feminist world. Link;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Adventures_in_Wonderland

  • http://www.rip-factor.com/formen/index.html Richard

    I have visited this site before.

    It looked like the usual batch of garbage on pro-feminist sites.

    Interestingly, going to the NOMAS site lead me to another site that had flagrantly incorrect DV statistics.

    I e-mailed the administrator – and the e-mail had been de-activated…

    People like those on NOMAS need to be stopped, or enlightened somehow.

    Any ideas on how to do this?

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Richard

    Registering here would be a good start.

  • Joe P.

    I suspect that NOMAS is primarily concerned with gay rights and that their idea of “masculinity” is from the female point of view. I can only imagine (and cringe) at the type of woman these guys interact with.

    No doubt they are good people, but nobody I’d have a beer with.

  • steven deluca

    If a black man told me he was pro white I would think he had brain damage. A feminist man to me is what a women’s history teacher said of men who repeat feminist myths “Philosophically castrated.”

    I think it’s a waste of time to talk to people who believe women are oppressed and men are oppressors who need help to stop being oppressors. In a culture where males are dying early from preventable health problems, when women outlived men by a year in 1920 and now it’s 6 years, yet we just doubled the national women’s health programs from 5 to 10 while we have NONE for men – we live in a gender world where up is down.

    EVERY male feminist I have ever met is a kiss ass. Women will like me if I protect them from ALL the bad men. Most of them don’t even know that there are dissident feminist or equity feminists who are tired of gender feminists (and male feminist) propaganda.

    Male feminists think they have a white hat and that men are pigs and they are helping pigs become something a bit better, dogs. We can never be as kind, nurturing, or moral as women but we can do better if ONLY we would become feminist men.

    When the “others” kick our butts feminist men and women will blame men but we can’t afford 4 times as many many men killing themselves, 2 million in prison, fewer going to college – as we keep funneling money to women and women’s issues.

    Feminist are part of the problem, (gender feminists that is) and not the solution. Feminst men … clueless.

  • http://huntingforarchetypes.blogspot.com Factory

    There’s no longer any doubt about it. The Mens Rights Movement needs to develop a branding message.

    I know, it sounds crass and high-falutin’ at the same time, but it’s true.

    We have entered an almost propaganda-war stage of our evolution, where our issues are ignored and mischaracterized, our members cast as villians.

    This is to be expected, of course, but that does not mean we can’t deal with these things more effectively. For starters, we can stop responding to them in their own frames of reference (which we have largely done…it’s been a long time since I’ve seen someone begin a statement with “I don’t hate women but…”). Second, we can start defining ourselves as a movement (which we have more work to do on, obviously).

    Third, and the part I am specifically addressing here…we can recruit.

    Which is, of course, the point of branding.

    When people have no idea what you’re about, or they hear false information louder than factual, they tend to form an opinion based on what they “heard”. It’s the “everyone knows” factor, and ignore it at your peril.

    Case in point? “Everyone knows” not all men are rapists…

    We cannot sit back, let the Feminists cast us in a bad light, and believe people will investigate for themselves, and come around. That kind of thinking is EXACTLY why things got as bad as they are, and shouldn’t even be on the MRM’s RADAR.

    Nope, it’s time to bring the message to the public – in a cohesive, purposeful manner.

    What do I suggest we do?

    Well, as I understand it, Argus Eyes is setting up a site for central gathering of material. I propose we add a database of people with location, email, and skills (job, hobby, etc) known – regardless of what they are. These people would be available to take part in a task as they are able – from developing marketing material to making signs…

    I also suggest a series of short YouTube “commercial” spots, both detailing what an MRA is, and what our issues are. As a possible addition, “attack ads” against those who stand in the way would garner a bit of attention I would think…

    One page ads, and “billboard” ads, could be developed, and stored at full res on a server for use in whichever city someone wants to pay for a billboard in.. Come to think of it, a database of anti-male rhetoric spewed by politicians would be good to keep (video, text, etc)… That kind of thing would be most effective to be circulated via Facebook and the like whenever an election is called…

    Anyone who knows cartooning could pitch in too.. :)

    I would also like to see the “Mens Rights Manifesto” officially endorsed at the OnStep conference as the guiding principles to any male studies programme, which MAY forestall attempts to co-opt this program into “Gender Studies” programs.

    We also need a logo, instantly recognizable as MRA in nature. Graphic Artists are worth their weight in gold. I simply refuse to believe there’s not one GA in the whole MRM, there’s no way that could be possible…. So step up, we need you!

    It goes without saying that the aforementioned efforts MUST be of the highest professional caliber. We cannot afford to present an amateurish facade if we expect to be taken seriously.

    These efforts are absolutely VITAL to be taken care of now…. actually, not now, but RIGHT NOW. The twisting of the MRM is already happening, and we have done nothing to counter it… an EXACT repeat of how Feminism got us in the first place. We can NOT allow it to happen again.

    So…get off your ass, and help out. We can do this.

  • SingleDad

    I second that Factory, we need to get media savvy at the same time we are starting to engage politically with lobbiests. I think we have done a good job so far. The next phase does seem to be approaching. Attention from the media is intensifying. You are a true asset to this movement. This is a fight for the future of families, children and fathers. We have a historic chance to create true equality and have men create a better world for their children. We dare not waste it.

  • steven deluca

    I know, some feminist guy who sat in the front row getting praise from his female teacher is going to see my typos, misspellings, in the past more than one who didn’t like my politics tied it to how I must be stupid, can’t spell. The truth is, my twin sister does much better, like many women do… language seems to be women’s forte, plus she didn’t end up with brain damage and PTSD from military duty in our sexist culture where , according to feminist men, a culure that exacts a big price from those born female.

  • DonnieH

    Dear Factory-

    I was delighted to read the news in your post! Awesome!

    Change appears to be accelerating. Thanks for all you’ve done (and Argus, and Paul, and . . . ).

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Factory, Steven, et al

    Let me offer some thoughts on your ideas here, most of which I agree with. But first let me assure you that there is much more to come regarding men’s studies being promoted within the MRM. The next two articles from me will reveal some very positive moves. Those will be out within a week at the most in my estimation.

    We are getting organized here, but there is obviously a ways to go.

    Now let me tell you where I disagree so I can get that out of the way. The On Step Institute offers us an antidote to feminist hegemony on academia, in large part precisely because they are not an activist organization. They represent a return to true scholarship, which can only help the cause and men and boys. Subsequently, the last thing we want them to do is take on a manifesto on men’s rights.

    The way I see it is that it behooves us simply support and promote them in any way possible and not try to tie them to any political or activist agenda that will only undermine their scholarly reputation.

    We are the activists here, and it is a great arrangement.

    The rest of what you are talking about I totally agree with, and I think we have it in our means to foster a growing MM right here. We speak of being more media savvy, and I think that is the right conversation.

    Mike L. has created a great tool here in that articles from MND are indexed by google news and that has a very positive impact on search results. Right now, if you google Mike Kimmel, NOMAS or Robert Brannon, the two articles i have written will come back on the first page of google results. And there will be more articles to come.

    There is much more to say about the possibilities of all this. And all it would take is a handful of dedicated ACTIVISTS to make it happen, but this comment section is not the place.

    There are, however, obstacles here, and I will offer my opinion on them briefly. The problem we have in the MM is fighting enough of our own biology to work together for our own benefit. That has always been the downfall of collective efforts. We are wired to work together to benefit others, and we quickly short circuit when challenged to do things for ourselves as a group. There are some exceptions, but this whole movement, unlike the women’s movement, is marred with disharmony, infighting and power struggles.

    The only solution to that, IMO, is a military type structure. I do quite a bit of work on my own that I would rather have the benefits of other talents and available labor. But the last thing I will ever do again is involve myself in any attempt to organize that I know will boil down to a bunch of guys in an intellectual circle jerk that will disband because you can’t get a consensus on how to spell cat.

    I have already seen that happen too much.

    So the only solution to that I can see is 1) stay with individual activism and/or 2) structuring small cells of activists with 1 leader and 2-4 soldiers. Even that is a tall order. But if you could even get one group of 5 men together that had a clear mission and stayed focused on doing it rather than talking it to death, they could do a lot of good in a very short period of time.

    I am not talking about groups of mindless drones to blindly follow the orders of one dictator. That would be a serious waste of talent. But I am talking about a group of men that understand the importance and effectiveness of discipline and structure well enough to put the mission ahead of personalities.

    Mind you, the MM, I think, is here to stay, regardless of what we do, because there is a need for it and it will be filled. I just think we could usher things a long a good bit more expeditiously with some better cooperation.

    More to come on this on my website.

  • Ray

    In 1999 I thought the men’s movement would grow as result of the fact that every day society continued to create more battered and broken males through its misandrist institutions. I thought the men’s movement would be a prominent force in a couple of years, but an army of the walking wounded took longer to materialize than I expected. It’s pretty shocking to think that this movement has largely come about as a result of the accumulation of screwed over and broken men coming to an awareness of the misandry arrayed against them.

  • daveinga

    i agree that we need to look at this ‘conflict’ w/ the feminists in a military manner. that’s what works best for me too.

    the very word ‘feminist’ for many people stirs up bad memories. let’s face it, they are pretty much kooks and extremists. just take a look at the democratic ones in the news. ugh. i expect them to do something fem-typical thing like changing their name/label. i have some suggestions for a new name if they need me.

    so what do feminists do to keep up the pressure on the MRM, especially now that it is handout time for vawa? they send out these nomas mercenaries. these males have a political agenda. emphasis on gay rights and race? divide and conquer works quite well, in many situations. problem here is these guys aren’t real MRA’s. just because the lawyer heavy congress think they have standing proves nothing. congress has an approval rating right up there w/ pelosi.

    in the mean time i suggest that we turn up the heat. more blogging. more statements of purpose. more Activism.

  • Mashed

    [quote]NOMAS denounces father’s rights groups as “male supremacist” and accuses them of encouraging child abuse.[/quote]

    [quote]NOMAS asserts that the only reason a father would fight an allegation of abuse by the mother during a divorce, or attempt to gain access to, or custody of, his child, is to “punish her for leaving.”[/quote]

    When I read the above sections of this article my first response was that this was hyperbole, a misrepresentation by exaggeration of otherwise innocuous or only mildly offensive statements. My first response, therefore, was to follow the link and learn for myself what NOMAS has to say.

    To say that I was stunned at the flat, unadorned accuracy of Paul Elam’s charge is to say that the ocean is a trifle damp and that it contains rather more than a cupful. I find it difficult to believe the charge even now, even having confirmed with my own eyes, the words that they proudly display for all the world to see. Bizarre!

  • Ivo Vos

    NOMAS seems to exhibit a certain damage potential to MRA’s and this potential is certainly worth additional consideration on Mensnewsdaily. The damage potential seems to be based partly on the results of second wave feminist’s activities, so it shouldn’t be a surprise that the first political statements is ‘We are pro-feminist …..’, followed by an equally vague statement about gender. Especially ‘gender’ is a theoretical construct where sociology shines in living up to one of its descriptions : ‘Sociology is the science that specializes in describing what everybody knows in a way that nobody understands’. Gender is a moral construct, a way to describe a preferred outcome based on speculative theories about how ‘society works’. It can go anywhere, based on the assumptions. Interestingly enough it can create a ‘social reality’, something that is one of the themes of sociologists. But enough about gender. What I found specially interesting in NOMAS is their focus on individuals who are supposed to belong to a group that have a disadvantage with respect to some other group, preferably a group that is supposed to have all the power to distribute material – and immaterial- wealth while both groups should be ‘equal’, whatever the term might mean, but the disadvantage is measured by some outcome and usually only measured in terms that focus on the disadvantage. Highly emotionally explosive when the members of the group, gays, different races, whatever, that are supposed to have such an unjust disadvantage will follow their emotions and thereby adopt any creative logical reasoning NOMAS has in store for them to reason them into the supposed reasons for their anger and fear (as seens to be the preferred emotion by NOMAS). Even more effective when you preach this message with some ‘good feeling extra’s’ about justice, equal rights, path to liberation, love and what not. So, just like the second wave feminists found their sweet spot in the emotions of women, it seems that NOMAS has started to exploit the emotions of men who for whatever reason ‘feel’ some disadvantage. Even a common Monday-morning emotion might be good, as long as it can be reconstructed into an unjust disadvantage that has to be addressed. If it works, it will stir up a lot of extra hate, and that has always been beautiful soil to grow your own agenda.

  • Phillip

    I’m sorry but he loses me with the lie “We are pro-feminist, which means we believe in gender equality.”
    Tell me one lie and everything you say after is suspect. Tell me such an obvious lie and I stop listening. Anyone that brain-dead is not worth the time, they’ll never be swayed until it is their ox being gored. People so dense as to believe that “pro-feminist” means, intends, implies or attempts gender equality is a fool who can only learn from experience and often not even then.

  • pj1

    Clearly, Michael Kimmel is a rank and file liberal fool sucking at the tit of the feminist power structure that pays his salary. He has a nice case of doublehthink, newspeak and clearly believes in thought crimes.

    Four legs? Do the feminist’s and gay conferences include concerns for men?

    Kimmel is part of the idiocy of academia. The hypocrisy of this fool is mind blowing.

  • Denis

    NOMAS is nothing more than a feminist-infiltrated “men’s organization”. They think men need to be reformed.

    I reject them completely.

  • rohara

    I feel the need to say something about the initiative to start a men’s studies program in academia. I worked in Higher Education for a few years as an administrator and I can tell you that it will be a god awful bloody battle to get such a set of programs started in publicly funded schools.
    The main resistance will not come from other academics (feminist studies professors and the like). Rather, it will come from the administration. All academic programs need administrative and alumni support and a men’s studies program will have neither. Behind almost every desk in every enrollment, institutional research, and financial aid office is a man hating bigot. I know I have seen it first hand and have myself been a victim of it. Male students are essentially being throttled out of higher education financially and socially and the same will happen to a male studies program unless we address this issue. It is something that must be brought up at the upcoming conference in New York.

  • http://huntingforarchetypes.blogspot.com Factory

    After reading Paul’s response, I see the wisdom in that approach. The “high road”, so to speak.

    I very much doubt Feminists will be joining male studies on that high road…but the point is made, this is NOT an academic wing to mens activism, even if the opposite is true for Feminism.

    The problems that arise from this situation?

    We activists have to constantly be aware of what is going on in these disciplines, to be sure the curriculum accurately reflects men’s issues, rather than those “allowed” by Feminists.

    Fair enough.

    As to the “military structure” idea, I can get behind that. I think one of the first things needing doing, then, is the outlining of projects we wish to undertake, and the gathering of the talent needed to complete said projects.

    I think my project, and talent needs are fairly self-explanatory…

    So how do we go about assembling this information?

  • http://huntingforarchetypes.blogspot.com Factory

    Rohara:

    All it will take is one University to openly, and proudly, advertise the existence of this program – and the male attendance / student take-up of this course shoots through the roof….well, then it’ll be a “competitive edge” thing… No University could afford to not have the course. Given the recent articles I’ve seen on other “mens studies” courses that have been attempted, female participation and enthusiasm far outstrips that of males.

    It IS possible, even though little evidence of it exists, it is possible that women don’t know why men are so angry, and want to understand…

    Possible, but not likely.

    But the main point is, this can be, and SHOULD BE, sold to Academia as a way to increase flagging male participation rates WITHOUT “illegal” Affirmative Action.

  • pj1

    rohara: Behind almost every desk in every enrollment, institutional research, and financial aid office is a man hating bigot

    So true. I lived this…

  • DonnieH

    Re: blogging-

    One idea I had is that when any one of us loads a comment on a thread (e.g., to a local news article, YouTube clip, book review, HuffPo, or whatever) that it includes sufficient information to direct a reader of your comment to an MRM website of your choice. I think a lot of men are not aware of what’s happening and what is being or has already been done, and we need to get the word out.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Factory

    If anyone is on the “high” road, it is you, brother. I just meant to infer that the roads were different. I am going to send you an email with and idea for some more organized effort.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/mike-lasalle Mike LaSalle

    I would like to offer my response to Michael Kimmel’s 4-Legs:

    (1) We are pro-feminist, which means we believe in gender equality.

    How is it possible to be both? How can a legitimate Men’s Rights Movement have as one of its foundational pillars a direct appeal to the liberation interests of the opposite sex? Would early Feminists have announced themselves “Pro-Paternal” in their quest for liberation? I think not. And anyway,”Feminism” is not an equality movement — it is a Liberation Movement. The very term “Feminist” declares the one-sided virtues of the NOMAS claim to “gender equality”. This first leg of NOMAS is just not fit to carry the weight of the legitimate Men’s Rights Movement.

    (2) We are gay-affrmative, which means we suppor the rights of all men to live lives of dignity and love, free of all discrimination, regardless of their sexuality.

    Many gay men are MRAs. Being gay does not preclude you from being an MRA with an interest in the treatment of ordinary men in western society. But the whole concept of a Men’s Rights Movement is to be men first, and only after we have acknowledged our universal brotherhood can we then be called gay men, straight men, white men, black men, this men, that men.

    In my opinion it is counter-intuitive to build a Men’s Rights Movement that does not first acknowledge that men are men regardless of race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. Therefore the second leg cannot by itself stand as a foundation of the Men’s Rights Movement.

    (3) We are anti-racist, which means that, again, we support the rights of all men to live lives of integrity and love, free of all discrimination, regardless of their race.

    Again, this is fine as a matter of stated policy. The Men’s Rights Movement that I subscribe to is race-blind; racial discrimination is abhorrent.

    (4)And we believe in “enhancing men’s lives” by which we mean that we want to enable all men to live lives of integrity and happiness.

    Who couldn’t agree with this? Liberty is an object goal of every man who yearns to be free.

    In fact, this last leg of the NOMAS table seems the most important of all.

    But it is the first leg that reveals the true nature of this organization: NOMAS is first and foremost a PRO-FEMINIST organization. The second and third legs reveal its purpose: to recruit gays and ethnic minorities and train them in the ideologies of Feminism.

    This is not the stuff of a genuine grass-roots Men’s Movement that addresses the wounded hearts of men in the postmodern era. Dr. Kimmel has described only his plans to expand the frontiers of institutional feminism.

    NOMAS is not the authentic Men’s Movement. It is only the crass squirm of academic administrators on-the-cum.

  • steven deluca

    If you are pro-feminist how can you be pro-equality?

  • K

    @ Paul

    You do realize that “Studies” departments in academia are all Marxist in origin and concept? If the attempt is made to put in a truly beneficial “Mens” department you will be strictly opposed by the humanities, the arts, the political science department and the college administration – to say nothing of the leftist red diaper student organizations.

    Your interaction with NOMAS is just the beginning. The Marxists have re-defined the language and you will note the use of “feminist” = “equality”. The only way you’re going to get this through is the same way it got established in the first place. Demonstrations and people willing to close classes, occupy the dean’s office and even go to jail to get it done.

    I say good luck, because you’re going to need it.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ k

    You are so correct. Rather than trust men of good will to further a wholesome agenda in the halls of academia, we’ll have sit ins and bongathons.

    Pardon the sarcasm, but I am not aware of any rule that says we must foster 1960′s style demonstrations to further change. In fact, were it not for the power of the pen, most of the demonstrations in our history would never have happened.

    I am aware of Marxist forces crowding the halls of academia, but I am also aware that minds have been changed on many things without mass protests.

    That being said, if they happen, I will be at them, but until they do, I will continue to push for change in the ways that are available to me.

  • Mr.K

    When I was in para-legal program the judge used the legal definition of “on all fours”. Mike La Salle makes a good use of it in a lay language.
    Link to WWW.
    http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ona1.htm

  • http://www.unitywall.com TXM

    Some thoughts on “Branding” men’s rights, and taking on the feminists in a military manner: I think there is another and equally compelling reason to have a Men’s Studies program…

    Men’s issues are difficult, complex and often very hard to understand. If you are working hard to earn a living, you can be injured (sometimes quite severely) by government policy and social norms, without really knowing what happened to you or why. All you know is that things seem to be unfair and unjust, but you can’t even articulate why it seems that way.

    I will never forget the time after my first divorce, when the government was raping me for child support, even when I was unemployed. Everyone told me the child supports awards were “fair” and “just” and that it was my “responsibility as a good father to pay”… then I read an article by Roger Gay about the “Income Shares Model” for calculating child support awards. I wrote to him and he asked me a simple question, “Do you know where they get the numbers for the child support award guidlines?” I didn’t, and as I learned more and more about it, I began to realize how the government had intentionally screwed me over, and how the awards were neither “fair” nor “just”. They were just a money grab by the government that also provided an economic incentive to destroy my family.

    I realized then that my true responsibility as a good father was to “fight” not to “pay”. And while I obey the law and pay my child support, that conversation was a life changing moment for me, and I have been a dedicated MRA ever since.

    Another quick example of an important, difficult and complex issue is the NOMAS position of ending the military’s policy of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”.

    My gut reaction is that the military should not change the policy until the broader society has resolved the dilemma presented by gay marriages. Why do service members have to participate involuntarily in a social experiment that civilians aren’t willing to participate in?

    But then after much reflection I realized my argument was flawed. Civilians are already allowed to be openly gay, and no one is requiring Soldiers to marry one another… so the calm sounding and reasonable voice of Michael Kimmel the NOMAS guy is probably right about that?

    Not so fast… While “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” is nothing like gay marriage, it is EXACTLY like the government forcing private heterosexual citizens to share studio apartments with homosexual citizens. Would you like that if it happened to you? Would you stand for that? Military members share extremely close living quarters and they ALL make adjustments and sacrifices in order to live together.

    The above may sound dumb, and it may be dismissed as “homophobia” but I am not a bit homophobic and I am actually quite proud of this bit of analysis. It literally required many hours of thought… the point is that these are difficult and complicated subjects that I just KNOW are wrong, but I struggle to even be able to articulate what I am percieving.

    To most men, the laborious task of carefully and thoughtfully analyzing problems, and then presenting them in a compelling manner, is a bit of a luxury. If it weren’t, I’m sure we would have much better ways of expressing who we are and what we are feeling and experiencing. That’s another reason why a Men’s Studies Program is important; to navigate the complexities of the issues and then to provide, in the light of Reason, an appropriate guide for action.

  • Mr. Knight

    @ Paul Elam:

    You make a crystal clear case against the feminist front called NOMAS.

    Thank you for that.

    It is always bizzarre when feminist front groups say that “fathers only seek custody to hurt the mother”.

    Fathers seek custody because they love their children and want to raise their children in their own homes. Why is that fact incomprehensible to feminists?

  • K

    Rather than trust men of good will to further a wholesome agenda in the halls of academia, we’ll have sit ins and bongathons.

    My point is that the “men of good will” had also better be willing to be shouted at, painted as racists and Nazis, patronized by the administration and told “we don’t have the money” by the politicians. In other words, bullied. Staging confrontations with congress critter’s and occupying school administration offices is standing up to that bully and declaring your space. Finding the dedicated male activists and students to do that is the next step.

  • http://fathersmensrights.blogspot.com/ Mike Murphy

    If the Barry Goldstein you mentioned is the defrocked lawyer who was suspended for 5 years for his antics in defending some of his harem of mom abusers then NOMAS is a masculinity hatred organization aligned with the VAW Industry and nothing else. Goldstein has been quoted as saying “even the lifting of an eyebrow can be abusive”. He is a 3rd wave ideologue.

    These are people co-opted by radical feminism and are no better than some of the eunuchs in the political and legal classes.

    They are the kind of men who bought the VAW Marketing that the solution to end DV is for men to come forward. They are chivalrous drones devoid of masculinity and by their own words think masculinity is testosterone fueled rages not the people who invented almost everything useful in the world, the burly first responder risking his life running into burning or collapsed buildings ready to give up his life no matter what your sexuality, gender, colour, or religion, the person standing 40 stories above the street welding beams, in freezing weather (does he make more money than the average feminist – you bet), and the list goes on.

    They are your left leaning Latte drinkers sitting crossed legged in the faculty lounge pondering the people of MA silliness in running from the feminist elitist Coakley toward a man who appears more like them. Independent males did make a difference in that election even if it was not organized. Just imagine if we could rally block voting of men.

    They are subversive to masculinity and ashamed of their own.

  • Kris Weaver

    Talk is cheap. It is time to take stock of who is and isn’t a coward. I suggest the formation of state based men’s leagues, with local county chapters if needed.

    I for the most part have only been reading online and limited to no interaction. But in my day to day life I try to talk about it. Men for the most part are receptive to the Men’s Liberation Movement. Women too seem to be supportive, until you talk about things that would remove their entitlements(mainly child support and alimony).

    What I suggest also is a two prong strategy, point out what is wrong and come up with viable alternatives that achieve our goals while disarming all opposition.

    We can either choose to wait for change to mysteriously happen or we can force change ourselves, I prefer the latter.

    I am in North East Pennsylvania. If anyone here is from that general region and is willing to stand up for what they believe instead of hiding in the shadows; then now is the time to act.

    Because in the end we reap what we sow, and so far the Men’s Rights Movement hasn’t sowed a damn thing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/FinalJusticeMovement The Final Justice

    What I find most heartbreaking, yet very much sobering, about the existence of MONAS alone is that they validate EVERYTHING I have known and EVERYTHING I have said about why and how homosexualism is an institutionalization of misandry.

    Once you hear ANYONE comparing so-called “homophobia” (which offends ALL homosexuals of BOTH GENDERS) to misogyny (which in the technical definition is the hatred of ONE GENDER — women), you can automatically confirm to yourself that she OR HE is of the feminist/feminazi propagandist agenda, without a single, unequivocal, solitary doubt.

    Yours In Truth,
    –The Final Justice

  • Mr.K

    Kris Weaver, to quote you
    “If anyone here is from that general region and is willing to stand up for what they believe instead of hiding in the shadows; then now is the time to act.

    Because in the end we reap what we sow, and so far the Men’s Rights Movement hasn’t sowed a damn thing.”

    While your frustration is understandable, without men like Mike LaSalle and Paul Elam you, I and many others would not be able to express our views on the Internet.
    Earlier R.F. Doyle published Men’s Rights paper The Liberator and he struggled financially to keep it going because husbands/fathers who had lost almost everything did not have much money to contribute. He might be better in explaining his experience but he did it for several decades.
    During the 30 some years of my involvement, there have been many who have raised similar question as you and then vanished. Perhaps it’s easier to challenge others because it seems like one has an insight into what the problem is. While you make a valid point, the old expression “How do you drain a swamp, when you’re up to your keister in alligators” seems to apply. Feminist have the federal,state and local government money and support. Sympathetic media supports feminist point of view.
    But if you want to be the next George Washington, rally the troops and sweep the feminist off their feets.

  • http://menareangrynow.wordpress.com/ menareangrynow

    @Factory

    “There’s no longer any doubt about it. The Mens Rights Movement needs to develop a branding message.

    I know, it sounds crass and high-falutin’ at the same time, but it’s true.

    We have entered an almost propaganda-war stage of our evolution, where our issues are ignored and mischaracterized, our members cast as villians.”

    Since Gandhi’s quote was said before; but, bears repeating. “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”. Right now, with the Daily Show incident, we’re at the stage where they are no longer ignoring us. Right now, they are at the stage where they are laughing at us. We need to respond in kind, and get our message out asap. We do need a brand, you’re absolutely correct. It’s not good for us, to let them be the only ones talking about us. We need to join the public dialog, and for the first time, leave the internet and make a serious push in the real world. When we have men’s studies, we can have men’s centers. These are perfect political tools for organization on campus. We can have our message spread through the campuses, and that is how we can represent ourselves well.

  • L24

    I have a question and I hope Paul Elam will answer. While it is very important to get the word out of our movement, especially since right now even most men will make fun of us, wouldn’t it be wise to hit the feminists where the evil structure is all based from, the POLITICIANS AND JUDGES?

    Theses people, both men and women, are taking money from feminist organizations who are promising to elect them, for their promises to follow their ideology and pass laws that are anti-male and downright unconstitutional. They are the most corrupt people on the face of the earth. Feminist organizations couldn’t be powerful without the funds from these elected officials.

    We need to find a way to let them know we are here and we will do everything possible to get them out of office if they continue to pass laws based on false statistics like the VAWA, and many other laws that are completely biased against men.

    Without them there would be less funding to Universities for only the gender based women’s studies only. Male studies will have a place in universities when we get rid of professors and administrators who only support this type of education.

    I believe we also need to inform alumni the truth about what is happening. Universities rely heavily on funding from their alumni and they need to tell universities they will receive no more money from them unless male studies is given the same opportunity as women’s studies has. That is what any movement should be about, the right to equal opportunity, and the feminist movement, while doing some good for women, has moved into the radical movement of female supremacy.

    We are at a critical point and we must act now. We need to get women who support equal opportunity on our side as well (although in my experience this will be tough to do as so many females have some kind of view that they deserve preferential treatment). We need to let them know that this is affecting their fathers, brothers, boyfriends, husbands, children, and themselves.

    I see us fighting a battle we may never really get started, let alone win, unless we get people to take us seriously. And the only way to do that is denounce men who hate females. We do not need them as they are exactly what the feminists are now, male haters. We need to be a group that is dedicated to equal opportunity for ALL and not demand preferential treatment, EVER! I see to many sites where there is venom and crude language used by these women haters. I am not that and I won’t associate myself with them. I hate what radical feminists have done and we need to change that.

    I really see Greedy and corrupt politicians, judges, college administrators, prosecutors, lawyers, and the like as the enemy; I really see feminists as mentally sick people who will never change. They will always play the victim and see men as evil, not even worthy of life. We need to get people elected that are fair for all. Until this happens we will never get anything done.

  • L24

    And about NOMAS, how can any men’s rights group say they are pro-feminist, and expect to be taken seriously as that, when they support a group (NOW) whose leader makes a statement as ludicrous as the one she made about “being blown away at the celebration of violence” in the Tim Tebow commercial. Is she for real?!

    Nomas is little more than a feminist group trying to get men to view masculinity as bad and being better men through the ideals of feminist views. They are from from supporters of men’s rights.

    I see them for what they are. Puppets! And this group might just be as dangerous as radical feminists as they are using the divide and conquer method.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ L24

    I think a lot of things are at play here. One, there are efforts targeting the laws that discriminate against men. I note the decisions against the domestic violence industry over the past 18 months in California and West Virginia. Glenn Sacks has enlisted the services of two legislative consultants to further the agenda. And there are other individual efforts underway to address the lack of due process and abuse of restraining orders in family courts.

    But we must be mindful of the long term, IMO, as there are no quick fixes. The fact is that many, many, politicians, judges, government employees and the like all share a common background in that they were educated in a system of higher education that is little more than a hotbed of feminist activism. The graduates of those schools go on to make laws and hold office as elected officials.

    In that sense, the education system IS the source of many of the problems. Your point about false statistics is quite correct, but it seems plausible that if male studies programs are there to offer scholarly rebuttal to many of the feminist assertions, which they will do by their very nature, then it presents a very public concern for politician as more and more academic refutation is released and voiced publicly by scholars.

    We are facing a massive and pervasive problem, one that permeates every aspect of our lives, from politics to courtrooms to classrooms. We need a masculine friendly voice on all fronts. Too many heads on the beast to do otherwise.






Search