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Child Support Decision Theory Developed

2010-02-05
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Child support decision theory has taken a leap in development; finally providing a sound theoretical formula that can be used to consistently produce “just and appropriate” awards. The following comments provide an quick summary of guideline history and briefly state the character and significance of the breakthrough. A link to further information is included at the end.

When Congress decided to force states to develop and use child support guidelines in the 1980s, state of the art consisted of formula built to correspond to existing state laws. The use and selection of such formulae had previously been left to judicial discretion and a variety of guidelines had been developed by state bar associations, judges, and individuals. Several efforts were quite worthy of note in the unfolding national history of the science of guideline development.

A 1981 formula created by Maurice Franks and a later effort by Judge Melson in Delaware both received widespread attention. Franks’ creation was extremely well documented in an article providing case citations and commentary as its basis. (How to Calculate Child Support, Case & Comment, January-February, 1981) This led to greater uniformity, not only within states, but across state lines, as laws on determining child support awards of many states were quite similar; based on “the needs of children and relative ability of parents to pay.” Therefore, it was therefore possible to apply the same formula in many states. This provided a sense that requiring the application of such a formula could consistently produce just and appropriate awards; and would reduce the variations in outcome in similar cases. It was after all, a mathematical model that was easy to apply. Because it was constructed to specifications of existing law, it also shared the accumulated wisdom of the entire legal history of child support decision theory both in the United States and earlier in Great Britain.

Criticism of Franks’ and similar formulae focused on custodial households at and below poverty level. The “cost sharing” approach taken by Franks’ and others was based primarily on sharing costs in the context of the standard of living in the custodial household. This resulted in poor custodial households maintaining a poor standard of living while much wealthier non-custodial parents were not ordered to improve the situation. In some cases, this could shift the burden of support to the state.

When Congress authorized spending to create technical guidance for states in creating new guidelines (Child Support Enforcement Amendments of 1984), the HHS Office of Child Support Enforcement turned to economist Robert Williams, founder of Policy Studies, Inc. Williams’ recommendations for amounts averaging 250% higher than awarded under existing state laws created the controversy that continues to surround guideline results today. (Development of Guidelines for Child Support Orders, OCSE 1987) Nonetheless, a majority of states adopted Williams’ “Income Shares” guideline model.

Although turning to economists for child support calculations seemed a reasonable course, it was, at least in hindsight, a baseless choice. A mathematical theory of child support decisions had never been developed within the field of economics. Rather than focusing on existing legal theory, Williams work more closely followed the work of another economist, Thomas Espanshade. Espanshade had written a book presenting his estimates of the cost of raising children. (Investing in Children: New Estimates of Parental Expenditures, Urban Institute Press, 1984)

Espenshade’s particular purpose was more focused on pressing for increased government support for poor families. The statistical estimates themselves were scientifically unsound; based primarily on the arbitrarily selected parameter values and manipulations of his estimating formula rather than on family spending data. The USDA had undertaken similar studies and determined that statistical calculation of the total cost of raising children was impossible using data on family spending. As once stated by a Chicago judge, “Both mother and child live from the same sugar bowl.”

Those particularly interested in keeping up with events in this area may recall a national controversy that stemmed from the USDA’s work. Keen to do the best they could to characterize the nutritional needs of families, they constructed low, medium, and higher cost “meal plans” in place of a statistically based formula estimating family spending patterns on food. This led to a negative public reaction based on the suggestion that the government was attempting to micro-manage family life. The USDA eventually yielded to political pressure and began producing Espenshade style cost estimates of its own.

The fact that “just and appropriate” child support award levels cannot be statistically determined from family spending data did not deter dependence on them for development of state guidelines. In fact, it seemed that a cottage industry developed in which a few economists spent a significant amount of time re-processing the estimates and writing reports for state guideline committees. Rather than leading to greater uniformity, these efforts produced widely varying results in different states and at different times, as conclusions from the “experts” seemed nearly always to agree with whatever local committee leaders and politicians had in mind. This confirmed in practice what was already understood in theory: The approach that has been taken for development and maintenance of mandatory guidelines is not scientifically sound.

The conflict between those who prefer the “cost sharing” approach and those who prefer “income sharing” is a long-standing one. The differences appear in proposed formulae, and have certainly been central to debate over numerical components in guidelines. Although “cost sharing” comes closest to implementing the historical wisdom of common law, neither had been developed into a sufficiently complete mathematical theory prior to mandatory use of guidelines in the states.

The two can be characterized as follows:

  • Cost sharing: dividing expenditure in the context of the standards of living of custodial parents, for the purpose of providing support specifically for children.
  • Income sharing: increasing the standard of living of custodial households by transferring wealth from one parent to the other, based on an arbitrary target standard of living presented in view of the parents’ combined income.

The two views are born of entirely different definitions of “child support.” Any compromise between the two would certainly be arbitrary; scientifically unsound. The current problem, that guidelines are constantly subject to arbitrary political manipulation (and more than once the subject of corruption – i.e. a few legislators have actually gone to jail for their involvements) would not be solved.

The new theory does however, at least in some sense, provide a sound compromise; although this was not the intent, nor the approach taken in its development. There was in fact, no forethought about where on the numeric map the result should be; only a direct sustained effort to find a basic and sound mathematical theory of child support decisions. Rather than “compromise” (a political process), it is most accurate to report that a solution has been found through deeper mathematical analysis.

Development of the new theory began with a classic effort to model (mathematically) traditional child support law. Analytical steps toward refining the model were described in Rational Basis is the Key Focus in Emerging ‘Third Generation’ Child Support Technology. (in Proceedings of the Seventh Annual Conference of the Children’s Rights Council, April 28 – May 2, 1993). The plan called for repeated refinements of both the mathematics and the underlying principles upon which the model is built; a boot-strap approach in which improvements in the statement of principles would be discovered from exercising mathematical models. Clearer application of principles would in turn, serve as the basis for further mathematical development (on a sound footing).

It was determined, by direct mathematical evidence (through model validation procedures), that three basic principles are required to develop a complete and sound mathematical theory of child support:

  1. Purpose Principle: Child support is for the care and maintenance of children.
  2. Relationship (equal duty) Principle: Both parents have an equal duty to support their children.
  3. Context Principle: All relevant circumstantial information may effect the amount of the award.

Those familiar with traditional child support law will easily recognize the close correspondence between these principles and those established by state courts. The process of developing general principles from case trials is as familiar to scientists as it is to lawyers and judges. What the mathematical studies have added is verification that there is no where else to go for determining “just and appropriate” award levels. In addition, the studies provided a more complete; and finally a sound mathematical model.

As mentioned above, the new theory was developed through successive modeling refinements. “Refinements” are improvements in the development of sound theory to the extent they bring the model closer to reality. Reliance on unavoidable facts as modeling “assumptions” rather than arbitrarily expressions of philosophical preferences, leads to improvements. Models can be constructed on philosophical preferences; but a sound and useful theory must be based on and related to facts.

In most cases, the presumption that receipt of child support increases custodial parent income is unavoidably correct. Regardless of intent (purpose principle), child support payments are “liquid” cash dumped into the income-stream of custodial parents. They, therefore, increase the standard of living of custodial households, not just that of children, and children share in that increase. Although the philosophy underlying development of “cost sharing” models is sound, this unavoidable fact more closely corresponds to (the improperly constructed) income sharing philosophy.

By preserving the principle, that child support is for the care and maintenance of children, while treating child support income as an addition to custodial parent income in mathematical models; a new basic formula was derived. The payment of child support increases custodial parent income, thus; increases the standard of living in custodial households and the benefits children receive. Explained in relation to “cost sharing,” receipt of child support payments effectively increase the amount available for spending on children, which in turn increases the “just and appropriate” size of awards. The solution converges (the increase is not arbitrarily high), and results pass all validation tests.

There is more complete and technically detailed information about Child Support Decision Theory available on the Web; at http://isr.nu/cs/ Materials were developed over a period of years and go much farther in dealing with the practical aspects of child support determinations; for example, on deviating from the basic formula and on dealing with visitation credits and joint custody calculations. A lengthy paper is also available at the site that provides a thorough analysis of the three fundamental decision principles.

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  • julie

    Hi Roger, there’s interesting changes happening to New Zealand’s child support. When MRAs post the changes and their conclusions, I will add a link to let you know, but in the meantime here is a couple of links that might interest you.

    http://taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2010-dd-supporting-children-summary.pdf

    And…you might already have this one but just in case.

    http://ncsea4.timberlakepublishing.com/files/PG&R%20Quick%20Facts%20-%20Hague%20Convention%20and%20UIFSA%203-10-09.pdf

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    Robert;

    Why blame me?

  • Robert Stevens

    Mr Gay, you assume, wrongly ofcourse, that the thugs who run this racket, know what the law is and where they have to stop. I can assure you, after being involved for 22 years, that they don’t the law and don’t give a rats ass about obey it, especially the parts where they lose power. No. slavery, is still slavery, no matter how you try and dress it up or try to justify it. End it, do completely away with it and take away the temptation. These people can’t be reformed and they can’t be made to understand that what they are doing is wrong. They simply have to be stopped.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    3DShooter;

    It almost seems like time to present my resume. I’m an engineer; which means I know how to build machines that work – not just sometimes when solar flares happen to be at the right intensity. Creating a model with the flaws you describe would be an extreme embarrassment for an engineer – no – it just wouldn’t really be engineering at all, not real engineering. Although it’s obviously quite acceptable within the social sciences as you say.

    It’s an odd world. I actually read a paper by a lawyer in California, who was considered one of the state’s foremost experts on child support guidelines, who actually looked down on “engineering” guidelines saying that they needed to be based on “science.” And by “science” he meant on the basis of crap thrown out by social “scientists” – the arbitrary statistical (not really, but they pretend) crap that has the flaws you describe. But how was he to know? He’s a lawyer, just repeating what the social scientists said while marketing their junk.

    There are some good social scientists out there; but being competent / honest is obviously the wrong character for attracting the big consulting bucks in support of corrupt social policy.

    My initial jump into the study was to bring “competent engineering process into what was going on.” (I wrote that before.) My masters’ work dealt specifically with mathematical modeling – and I’m not one of the unwashed masses who think “mathematical modeling” is simply another way of saying “statistical modeling.”

    RE: “social policy” – I’ve written many times about that, always nagging about the same thing. In the legal context, child support has no business in the social policy arena at all. It was Civil Law prior to the unconstitutional federal takeover, and was only redefined as social policy by a federal court (the most corrupt – US 9th Circuit Court of Appeals) to allow a corrupt federal funding scheme to continue – the one that rewards states for producing unjust and inappropriate child support orders, for ordering men to pay child support when they are not the fathers of the children they are ordered to support, for refusing to halt orders when these men provide DNA evidence that they are not the fathers, and for supporting an industry that “collects” child support from fathers without having any mother to distribute the money to (so they keep it) and that steals 10s of billions of dollars a year from taxpayers and children without delivering anything of value in return.

    On the policy front; my view is – get the fed. out of the family law business. Return it to the states where it belongs and back into Civil Law. Family issues are private matters and require constitutional protection from arbitrary government intrusion, and the corruption that inevitably follows from that intrusion.

    Then the child support decision principles – which were in fact originally derived from constitutional principles – would be back in force; and any “guideline” in use would be subject to scrutiny in every case. From a technical perspective, it was certainly wrong of them to force presumptive use of guidelines and remove all mechanisms for checking their validity – which of course they did in support of corruption – not with intent to do it right. If it’s going to be done right, then improvement in “guidelines” must be forced by allowing them to be tested via common law process.

    If it’s broke – fix it or scrap it!

  • 3DShooter

    @Roger F. Gay

    I will say you have been most engaging and ‘tolerant’ of my dissent on this topic and it is obvious you have spent considerable time in the study of the matter (forum commentary is rarely this engaging). To this I will cede that the matter is worthy of study.

    However, when these studies become the basis of social policy and law, limitations become abundantly evident. The problem is that social policy attempts to address the ‘mean’ subset defined by the model.

    In doing so those at the 1x sigma and 2x sigma boundaries are inordinately ill served by the model. And the further one is from the mean one is the more ill served they become. This is a ‘political’ phenomena which the model doesn’t describe (one of the un-modeled vectors which also is why there is a ‘floor’ but no ceiling to child support awards that you have alluded to).

    That you have heard and reflected on my comments is encouraging.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    The choice of “need” (verses “want”) was not an arbitrary one, but goes straight to the Civil Law foundations of traditional family law. The state’s involvement was governed by Constitutional limits against arbitrary intrusion. In formulating orders, the state needed to account for circumstances of all effected parties, and determine amounts that were strongly justified – not simply desired by one of the parties.

    A strict distinction was also made between child support and spousal support (or alimony). “Child support is for the care and maintenance of children,” wrote one state court (I memorized this one), and “not for the enrichment of the custodial parent.” Spousal support is only ordered, “when appropriate.” So – it’s not to be included in the form of an arbitrarily increased child support award, and would end if for example, the custodial parent remarried.

    Mathematics have been provided to show how spousal support is considered when calculating child support. It’s important to note that spousal support is part of the recipient’s income. It increases the recipients net income and decreases the payer’s. This may increase the standard of living in the custodial home, and thus the amount of expected spending on children (within the “needs” definition) – but it would also decrease the portion of that spending an ncp would be ordered to pay.

    It’s a reality thing.

    I have provided equations that provide results for both spousal support and child support given a target standard of living. I mean, if cp personal income + child support + spousal support is supposed to be equal to A; A is given and cp personal income is known, the equations will tell you what the amounts should be for child support and spousal support – so that the child support amount is consistent with CSDT.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    I did give a considerable amount of attention to numbers that should be used to apply the theory, but to be honest, some of the work was such a long time ago, that I’m either going to have to go back and read everything I wrote, do it all over again, or just drop ideas as I remember them.

    There was a phase of the work when I was checking to see how EVERYTHING would all work out with consistency – for example, what happens at the boundary between welfare dependence and self-sufficiency. Now that my memory has been jogged – supporting the mathematician’s view that – at least to do a complete application – they would need legal knowledge – traditional case law stated that beyond a certain point, children’s needs have been met.

    They meant, very high child support award do not fit within the definition of “need.” This provides another boundary; one that would exclude arbitrary judgments such as we’ve seen in million dollar per year child support orders for basketball players and movie stars. At least one court gave numbers.

    It would mean that custodial millionaires might be disappointed in the child support they receive from non-custodial millionaires. But then, what in blue blazes is a million dollar a year child support order all about anyway? We all know that never made sense.

    On the other hand, a millionaire non-custodial parent would be ordered to pay practically 100% of child costs for a child raised by a middle class custodial parent (or if he raised the child himself that would also be his direct cost).

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    3DShooter;

    You’re right about that. The problem is always there and always will be there that it would take a strict accounting to share the actual expenditures – and that adjustments would have to be made after the fact – i.e. reimbursement. And if that’s the procedure – one would expect changes in spending here and there (although that phrase may understate the extent to which it would happen).

    My descriptions of CSDT may not be explicit enough regarding the actual numerical data – as it is mainly concerned with mathematical logic – i.e. the “theory.” (Although I don’t recall all of my writings – I do know that I’ve given this a lot of thought.)

    The data to look at is spending in single parent households. I’d prefer additional data sets specifically focused on separating expenditure – identifying expenditure specifically on children’s “needs” (needs as defined in traditional child support law). There have been some interesting studies in Australia for example, specifically designed for this purpose.

    Reasonable normative values would be established. Is that wrong, do you think? I would not eliminate parental choice. If mom wants to take the kids to the Bahamas for a week, she can. But that doesn’t mean dad has to pay for it if he doesn’t want to. Mom has discretion regarding how she spends what she has.

    I’m going to mention “needs” twice in this post, and emphasize that it’s a term that was defined in traditional child support law. The definition is, IMO, quite clearly instructive; and a good guide for identifying “valid” costs. (And this would be done on actual valid data sets – not in every case as with the reimbursement idea mentioned above.) The sort of change of behavior, like taking the kids to the Bahamas, would not effect the level of child support. That’s discretionary – not defined as “need.” A concrete difference in circumstance – that a child needs special medical care for example – does fall within the definition of “need.”

    Now – agreeing with you that principles should be consistent with all sorts of families – married people with children work within a budget. Their income does not increase merely because they want to spend more. The same principle would apply to custodial parents. I’m way too hard-core coldly analytical to produce a process that yields to the simple desire to have more. Life is cruel that way.

  • 3DShooter

    @Roger F. Gay

    Having a background in mathematics I identify with your observation that “Mathematicians have a chance, but I’ve tried with them in the past and they usually stop short because they feel lost without first being immersed in legal concepts.”

    I would suggest that that is because mathematicians realize that by giving the ‘theoretical model’ force of law that changes the initial conditions and the real-time dynamics of the ‘family economic’ choices. And gov’t doesn’t work in real time and is especially deficient where real-time life critical economic decisions need to be made.

    In more colloquial terms, this is the kind of shit that gets people killed. This is why I am adamant that government specifically be prohibited from interference at the family/individual economic level. We’ve all seen how well the Keyensian economics model has served as public policy and we are seeing the effects of government interference in family dynamics is playing out as well. The result will be the same – a crisis of families.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    … continued ….

    In fact, it seems a trip down memory lane would be very good for me and others to help explain the development.

    My first paper: Pilot Study on the Development and Evaluation of State Guidelines for Calculation of Child Support Payments, Intelligent Systems Research Corporation Report; Special Report No. ISR-032590.01, Child Support Series Report No. 1, April 16, 1990.

    Back then, it was also apparent to me that there was and would likely never be a complete child support decision theory – at least not one scientifically derived and “valid” in that sense. The goal of the pilot project was to bring competent engineering process into what was going on. I envisioned very well documented mathematics that was valid in the sense that it properly fulfilled its defined purpose. Here’s a related explanation from a couple years later;

    “The first step in creating child support guidelines should be the most obvious. The first step is to define child support policy. The science of child support is far to incomplete to depend solely on economics or science to determine what child support policy should be. This step is necessarily the first step. The second step is to create a bridge between policy decisions and mathematical development. …”

    That’s from “Model Statutes for Child and Spousal Support,Model Child Support Guideline, and Equation for Alimony” May 1993.

    In “Rational Basis is the Key Focus in Emerging ‘Third Generation’ Child Support Technology” which is mentioned in the article above (also 1993), there was still no promise of pure theoretical development.

    QUOTE:
    First generation: First generation child support ”guidelines” were developed in local courts and counties to provide ”normative” factual information about actual and reasonable child rearing costs or award levels. ”Guidelines” were applied with discretion in the context of principles and detailed considerations provided in statute. First generation technology was not designed for presumptive use.

    Second generation: The Family Support Act of 1988 mandated presumptive use of state-wide guidelines. Second generation technology is much like the first with some very important exceptions. Among them; higher numbers are used, in-kind contributions are mostly ignored, and in many states the fundamental principles and detailed considerations (rational basis) upon which child support decisions had been based have been eliminated from statutes.

    Third generation: The proposed ‘third generation’ design approach focuses on the need to reinstate fundamental principle in child support law and to provide a ‘reality based’ framework in which to compare model circumstances with those in an individual case.
    :END QUOTE

    The “third generation” I proposed was a “design approach” focused on “reinstating principles” and providing a “reality based framework in which to compare model circumstances with those in an individual case.”

    The day the effort turned into CSDT was pretty exciting. I recall meeting friends for our usual Friday night out for dinner and drinks, and bringing pages of work with me – to show them and try to explain to them what had happened.

    I’d cracked it. I didn’t know it was possible – but I had.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    OK, so I think a lot of the recent discussion with 3DShooter can be easily summarized, which suggests that the discussion has been good for me. Thank you, 3DShooter. It’s not just you – it has to do with a perspective that I’d forgotten about because I’ve had CSDT in mind for such a long time. But I’m likely to run into this sort of thing again.

    I “recall” your criticisms from my own thoughts from years ago. Both the “cost sharing” and “income shares” approaches produce invalid results. They are properly characterized as “models” (although it’s unclear when you look at the details what “income shares” actually models – the modelers’ wishes, apparently).

    Now that I’m “recalling” my own past criticisms of other work, I can more easily identify with your criticisms. Especially, I noted earlier – with respect to work that is principally oriented to statistical analysis. Statistical modelers don’t have a chance. Information in existing family spending data sets is not sufficient – it is impossible to derive a proper child support award model through analysis of family spending data. That’s not just because someone made an attempt that didn’t work. It is mathematically certain that approach cannot work. Derivation of child support formulae via “cost of raising children” statistical studies is extremely bogus work.

    Your criticisms – applied to “cost sharing,” “income sharing,” I usually don’t mention “percent-of-income” because it’s so stupid, as well as a host of other attempts that focus on statistical analysis are accepted.

    CSDT has the word “theory” in it, because it is the very first real “theory” for making valid child support decisions. It can be understood as an improvement over “cost sharing” – which was the result of efforts in the right direction – but is an incomplete model – not a complete theory.

    It may very well be that objective review of CSDT will be much easier for lawyers and judges than social scientists. Mathematicians have a chance, but I’ve tried with them in the past and they usually stop short because they feel lost without first being immersed in legal concepts. If someone wants to do an extremely thorough job of review – perhaps one set of experts to review the principles – and another to review the math based on the principles.

    In any case – it’s not going to be possible for anyone to provide an objective review of CSDT by not looking at it, and relying only on their knowledge of past efforts that did not produce CSDT. None of those previous efforts were completely successful (although I must point out that “cost sharing” was to be applied with open judicial discretion – so in context, they really did know what they were doing).

    CSDT corrects the core problem with the “cost sharing” model and provides the math necessary to account for individual circumstances – i.e. what’s previously been referred to as “deviation” is covered in the theory.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    And BTW again – “sickness” may not be quantifiable, but the cost of treatment is quantifiable, etc. etc.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    3DShooter;

    I can pretty well sense at this point that you’re really not focusing on CSDT. You’ve apparently looked into the problem of creating child support guidelines and found it challenging. It is. CSDT didn’t pop out off the top of my head. It’s the result of a longer term effort, and involved at least one or two very significant mathematical break-throughs. I’ve actually very seriously compared the derivation of CSDT to Einstein’s break-through resulting in relativity theory. Time is a variable? Who would have thought of that? It took a basic reconceptualization to solve the problem I described in the article – i.e. find the right answer that’s “sort of” in-between the “cost sharing” and “income sharing” models. I can understand your complaints re: the “cost sharing” and “income sharing” models – but I don’t think it’s sunk in yet that I found a solution.

    Come to think of it – perhaps I should have been more understanding of the position you take. The “cost sharing” and “income sharing” seem to demonstrate the problems you state. I’m sure it’s even worse for people principally oriented to statistical modeling.

    That’s why this is a big announcement. The failure of “cost sharing” and “income sharing” approaches to produce valid models is not proof that the problem is unsolvable. It’s just a pretty big deal to find another path – one that does lead to a valid solution. And that’s what I’m saying. I have found that path.

    Now – I don’t think we’re getting anywhere if your response is merely to contend that what I’m saying can’t be true. If you are capable of looking into the theory at a level you are confident would make you a qualified reviewer – then have at it. But you’ll have to look at it carefully enough and consider it long enough (without your mind being completely closed) to do the job. You need to wrap your mind around the new conceptualization.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    BTW, 3DShooter. No attempt was made to model child support decisions using fractals. But if I were to make the comparison, I’d say you must consider the space in which the fractal exists, but you consider an approach that won’t work (if I understand your comment correctly). I’ve seen many academic papers in my lifetime that present such arguments; the logic of which can be described as follows.

    — Having found that my attempted solution doesn’t work, I have proven that the problem is unsolvable.

    Actually – it only means that the researcher didn’t solve it. That doesn’t mean the problem cannot be solved.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    3DShooter;

    1. It’s a complete “theory” that has passed certain validity tests. I believe it can be used to create very accurate models with sufficient data. It is more complex than models currently in use, but not so much that it would make it impractical to use routinely. Note principle #3: Context Principle: All relevant circumstantial information may effect the amount of the award. The mathematics covers how to account for individual circumstances – i.e. “deviation” from the simple income related model is also easily routine, and may account for any and all economically meaningful variables on a case-by-case basis. We all know about “garbage in, garbage out”, and I’ve not said that application in real life will always lead to awards that are actually right on the penny in every case. But even with imperfect application, the results will be much closer to the truth than what results from competing formulae.

    2. Part of my validity test does consider application by government – i.e. what does it take not to violate the constitution if government orders payment of child support? And does application of the formula to produce and order pass? This is a slightly complex question, but since we’re well versed – my response should not be difficult to understand. Part of my work involved review of pre-reform case law. There are state supreme court cases that spell out the fundamental principles with concern for basic rights of both parents …. There is even a post-reform case from a lower court in which state law and guidelines were overturned on constitutional grounds, and the judge once again explained in the ruling the rules associated with constitutionally acceptable orders. The three principles upon which CSDT is based, pass easily because they correspond to the prescribed principles in ALL of the pre-reform reviews + the post reform review in which a particular set of state guidelines were declared unconstitutional. Here are some additional, more general considerations.

    A) The federal government does not belong in the family law business.
    B) Family issues are private issues, and state courts only belong via Civil Law – i.e. accepting that family issues are private issues and being respectful of constitutional limits to government intrusion.

    The principles and theory result in treatment that is logically equal to parents in any setting. There is nothing in the theory that for example, mandates child support beyond the age of 18, or rips off non-custodial parents in calculating visitation credit. That “all relevant circumstantial information” may be considered is important, and special work has focused particularly on visitation credit. Other, more general aspects of the theory make it easy to account for particular details and arrangements rather than just “presuming” a biased profile. “Constraints and compliance requirements” are”applied with out regard to status of the family (intact, custodial or non-custodial).” Equal treatment however, does not result in equal outcome. The circumstances of a broken family are not the same as those of an intact family.

  • 3DShooter

    @Roger F. Gay

    Of course you don’t understand how to discuss this with me because you aren’t willing to see that CSDT is th ‘phrenology’ of social science. So, I will try and put the invalid premise behind the underlying assumption in simple enough terms that you might understand.

    1) The allocation of resources within a family unit (intact or otherwise) is not static, it consists of numerous variables that that are not quantifiable in a simplistic formula. Factors such as time, age, economy and health issues are not quantifiable though they play a significant role in resource availability. What you are trying to do is akin to determining the underlying equations of a fractal topology by looking at a selected subset of the vectors that define the space in which it exists. It cannot be done – and should not be attempted.

    2) That it is the rightful role of government to determine the allocation of resources for ‘government selected’ subsets of families. Unless you are proposing that all of the constraints and compliance requirements be applied with out regard to status of the family (intact, custodial or non-custodial), any application of CSDT is blatantly a violation of constitutional restraint on government authority.

    These are just two of the invalid premises CSDT is based on. Would you like me to provide more?

    A conclusion derived from invalid premises MUST yield invalid conclusions. CSDT is bunk . . .

    QED

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    3DShooter

    I don’t know how to discuss this with you if you can’t see that determining an amount of reasonable economic transfer – which is linked directly to the reality of supporting children – is a separate issue from questions regarding the use of government force.

    The theory is not based on indentured servitude. I’m absolutely 100% certain of that. It is not a political theory. You may regard supporting children as indentured servitude; which would be a personal opinion quite separate from the actual logical basis of Child Support Decision Theory.

    CSDT exists independently of the issue you’re focused on. It could be applied in any circumstance – including a situation in which parents agree and government is not involved – or in the traditional setting of state courts issuing an order in response to a private lawsuit for child support – or anything. The political setting has no effect at all on the theory – because the two are totally independent.

    Your idea that my conclusion is based on a false premise doesn’t stand to reason, because you’re mixing ideas from two completely separate domains and incorrectly assigning the label “premise”.

  • 3DShooter

    @Roger F. Gay

    “But this article is focused on Child Support Decision Theory. It doesn’t matter why anyone wants to know what a fair amount would be” – Your premise is invalid therefore any conclusion it arrives at is equally invalid. It is not a proper role of government to arbitrarily decide for a selected sub-set of parents (non-custodial parents that it has created) should pay for the care and rearing of children.

    “I take it you would not object if two parents simply agree” – You would be wrong as this is the only legitimate way to arrive at a determination. I would, however, object to any gov’t involvement in the collection and/or enforcement of such an agreement.

    CSDT is based on the premise of indentured servitude, no conclusion it reaches can be considered valid. Now, answer the question are you in favor of slavery or not?

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    3DShooter

    OK. As far as I can tell, your entire concept of “child support” is post-federal-reform – i.e. from at least 1990 forward. I agree that the federal government should not be in the family law business. I have written endlessly on that corruption – and that’s all it is. Are you aware of that? Absolutely – 100% – this is not a new position for me – the federal government does not belong in the family law business. And that is where the corruption comes from. People weren’t seriously describing “child support” as indentured servitude before federal reforms. The federal reforms put all of family law – including child support award amounts – under arbitrary political control. The exploitation via arbitrary government intrusion started with the federal reforms. The only purposes of the reforms were and are corrupt. The stuff isn’t Constitutional at all – and the fact that they didn’t die in federal courts demonstrates clearly how corrupt the federal courts are.

    I’ve even written explaining that these reforms were the key to the collapse of Constitutional rule in the US, and the pattern of corruption from the child support scam has been repeated in other areas – principally to steal more money via government corruption. (article: Are Americans Paying Taxes to Organized Crime Syndicates?) When I say they’re stealing money through the child support scheme, I don’t mean just from non-custodial parents. They’re stealing from custodial parents and children as well – and have already stolen 100s of billions of dollars from taxpayers. This is the purpose of federal involvement in family law.

    But this article is focused on Child Support Decision Theory. It doesn’t matter why anyone wants to know what a fair amount would be. I take it you would not object if two parents simply agree – without any government involvement at all – to live separately and to share expenses – and would just like to find a reasonable amount to transfer, given their particular circumstances and arrangements.

    Child Support Decision Theory stands on its own for determining “just and appropriate” amounts – if an amount needs to be determined; no matter what the state of government intrusion. So, whether or not you’re ever successful in achieving your particular political goals – CSDT is always valid.

  • 3DShooter

    @Roger F. Gay

    Your opening in your reply to my comment immediately raises my suspicions as to your position: “It’s a strange thing for me to find myself in the position of defending “child support.” ” And, yes I’ve slept on it and yes I do remember the days before Reagan when my father raised myself and my sister through the 60′s, 70′s and 80′s without a dime of child support or any public assistance for that matter.

    In answer to your question: “how would you expect the idea of abolishing the whole practice to go?” That is simple: Effective immediately the federal funding based on child support collections will cease. All government employees who are employed in positions related to the collection or enforcement of child support are furloughed immediately. From this point forward, the prohibition of indentured servitude in the form of child support will be abolished. Any government official, state or local, found to promote or enforce state mandated child support will be guilty of treason with the penalty of death by hanging.

    Pretty simple – pull the plug . . .

    Many slave-holders in the 18th century defended their practice by proclaiming their virtue with vacuous statements such as “our slaves are better off in servitude than they were in freedom”. So, what is your position on the practice of indentured servitude re-branded as state mandated/enforce child $upport?

    There can be no middle ground! Child $upport must be ABOLISHED!

  • http://smallhold-pioneerpreppy.blogspot.com/ Connor

    I have to agree with Robert Stevens. The government has no business sticking its nose in family business and child support is nothing but a scam to get money for women from men NOT the other way around and NOT for the child.

    I have had custody of my son for years and was awarded child support yet I have never received a dime nor do the enforcers care. Yet when the tables were turned these people were taking money from me within a week of our seperation.

    Once when I switched jobs I got 4K behind and they came and drug me out of bed and arrested me on my day off. Luckily I had the money saved seperatedly and even had MOs to show the judge I had tried to pay so I was not convicted of a felony. Now my EX is over 35K behind and NO ONE does a damned thing.

    Trust me it isn’t about the child it is about wealth redistrubution and out right theft period from men to women and it needs to end.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    I was responding to your comment, 3DShooter. It doesn’t seem to me that your characterization of what I said is accurate. Perhaps you can just read it again when you’ve had some sleep.

  • 3DShooter

    @Roger F. Gay

    So do you have a point?

    On one hand, you seem to be admitting to the abject failure and corruption of the current system. And on the other you appear to be an apologist for its shortcomings.

    My position is clear: because it has demonstrably been shown to be systemically corruptible it needs to be abolished. Anything less will return us to this point.

    What is your position? Are you a supporter of indentured servitude or opposed to it? That is a simple question that requires a straightforward answer.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    It’s a strange thing for me to find myself in the position of defending “child support.” But it is my thing to sort things out and put them in perspective.

    Yes – 3DShooter – I most certainly agree that you accurately characterize the situation as it exists today; and I am also quite pessimistic about fixing the problem. Entrenched financial interests hooked into government corruption that goes all the way to the top and seethes through both political parties is extremely difficult to unentrench (whether that’s a word or not). One can just look at all the obsolete and never-useful-to-begin-with federal programs that are still around because nobody’s going to turn the money spigot off once it’s flowing.

    But when this is all so extraordinarily obvious that “anyone who has studied the issue in any depth cannot avoid the conclusion”; how would you expect the idea of abolishing the whole practice to go?

    On the other hand, let’s gaze back to the days before Ronald Reagan federalized family law – back when marriage and family were sacred private institutions requiring the strongest possible Constitutional protections against arbitrary government intrusion – back when civil rights applied even in child support determinations. It wasn’t that long ago in the broad scheme of things; and today, the “deadbeat dad” propaganda thing doesn’t last a minute before somebody’s going to throw a chair at whoever tries to use it.

    Back in those days, when we were still under Constitutional rule rather than federal dictatorship, a custodial parent could sue a non-custodial parent for child support. It was a private matter, and not one in which the state was allowed to act arbitrarily in support of a corrupt hidden agenda.

    And post-apocalypse – states are writing resolutions, laws, and state constitutional amendments in support of states’ rights. The public is over-the-top sick and tired of government corruption and federal power grabbing.

    More than a rant – I simply must mention that there are some very positive reports coming from Virginia and other states. If I was still as focused on child support as I was in the past, I’d be writing articles of MND on the progress that’s been made and the successful organizations that are driving steady improvements.

    But in the mean time consider the fact that – just like in the global warming scam – bogus “science” was used to support arbitrary increases in child support awards. And just like in the global warming scam story, real science is revealing the truth. So don’t dismiss the effort. It’s likely worth a lot more than you think.

  • 3DShooter

    Only in amerika (OK, the western world) can ‘indentured servitude’ be re-branded through legal linguistic legerdemain as an obligation with the name ‘Child Support’.

    Frankly, the system is beyond any hope of reform. Anyone who has studied the issue in any depth cannot avoid the conclusion that this the moneyed interests (state coffers, family law corporations – and the welfare whores they support) derive substantial financial gain from the system. It is the epitome of feminism that this program that once was intended to benefit the poor has become a middle class entitlement that has destroyed the traditional nuclear family.

    Child $upport needs to be exposed for what it is – exploitation of children to extort money from parents. And its practice needs to be ABOLISHED!

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay

    I can’t agree, Robert. I’ve spent too much time analyzing federal laws in this area and they never do the good things advertised. Most of the time the intent of the law is exactly the opposite of the title.

    One consideration that won’t send me flying to study the new proposal is that family issues are constitutionally not within federal jurisdiction. Right there you’ve got a critical problem. Forcing family issues into the federal domain – against the Constitution – results (has historically and I don’t see another way theoretically) in reclassification of the laws to “social policy.” Under state control where they belong, they are Civil Laws. The big difference, as the name actually does suggest, is that Civil Law is subject to civil rights. “Social policy” is not – it is arbitrarily politically controlled.

    Forcing this stuff – illegally – under federal control is what caused all the big problems in the first place. I sure hope regular MND readers know that – as many times as I’ve written about it. :)

  • Davidtoo

    I agree with Robert Stevens. Further, I suggest that child support should be entirely elliminated where there was no marriage and no intent of marriage and where it was clearly pronounced by either partner that “I do not want a child”.

    The problem is we are rewarding bad and irresponsible behavior. And this has become a lifestyle choice. Some women actually state and believe that it is empowering to purposefully get pregnant without their partners knowledge or permission. This should be a crime – as this is child abuse, based upon all of the statistics routinely shown on this and many other websites. Why we cannot find an attorney with the balls to change some of these horrendous laws, I have no idea. Is it the money??

  • Robert Stevens

    Just? Appropriate? The terrorist who run the government sponsored kidnaping and extortion racket known as the family courts and the child support system do not know the meaning of those words. Given human nature, ie the more power to steal you give these bastards the more they will steal until those being stole from can no longer live even at subsistanance levels. NO….. I am afraid…. no I am certain the only way to fix the child support problem is to abolish the whole corrupt system.
    Pass, then strenously enforce a proposed federal law, the UPREPA.
    The Uniform Parental Rights Enforcement and Protection Act a proprosed federal law will abolish the civil cause of custody for children, in effect it will outlaw “judicial kidnapping” by the states and make joint physical legal custody the only option. Once you can’t steal a child , then extort money from the parent you stole them from , you will stop the bull shit. Once a woman realizes that she can no longer “Act Stupid” and steal a mans kid and get away with it, then this “little rebellion”, that has been going on for over 40 years, will stop!
    Oh we will still have divorces, but the number will be drastically reduced. And further still, the cases involving children, there will be virtually none. Once there is no money in stealing kids and those that atempt it are severely punished, you will stop all ,except those women who are so hard headed and hard hearted that it will take a making a stern example out of them to get the point across.
    Even then, there will still be broken families ,just not the epidemic we now have and it case where a divorce involving children does occur, the one wrecking the marriage will pay , not the one who acted responsible. Getting a divorce with children will be like starting a nuclear war, no winners and the worse losers will those that started it and because they end up paying dearly for it.







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