Conference on Male Studies Delivers

2010-04-07
By

“Truth is regarded as a terrible word in this age of deconstruction,” said Katherine Young, while fielding questions at the Conference on Male Studies today at Wagner College in New York.  Young was among a panel of varied academicians that spoke at the conference, which was hosted by Wagner Professor Miles Groth and chaired by the erudite pair of Lionel Tiger and Christina Hoff Sommers. The purpose of the conference was to introduce the concept of male studies to a broader public and academic audience.

True to Young’s words, however, there was resistance to that truth in the panel itself.  After a great start, with On Step Institute founder and MND board member Dr. Ed Stephens posing the initial question “What are the ethical concerns of dedicating 90% of resources to one sex?” and eloquent opening statements from Tiger and Sommers, the momentum faltered briefly with the statement issued by Professor Chip Caprero of Hobart and William Smith Colleges.

First, Caprero attempted to paint the entire conference as an afterthought to the field of men’s studies, tossing Michael Kimmel’s name around and suggesting that the academic pursuits being considered by the other panelists were not new, but already well underway. He seemed not to notice that the remainder of the panelists seemed to view Kimmel’s work as the problem.

And then he made the incredulous (and outright stupid) statement that masculism was an attempt to “re assert male privilege.”

It was as though no one had prepped him with a conference description before asking him to speak.  Indeed, it was as though no one had awoken him from his intellectual slumber before giving him a microphone.

The implication is not that he should have or would have spoken otherwise with prepping, but that the conference was apparently organized out of necessity due to a paradigm that has too long operated on Caprero’s point of view.  They might as well have invited Carol Gilligan or Catherine McKinnon to fill his seat for all the benefit it would be to male studies.

It was the only low point of the two hour presentation, but it actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise, due mainly to what followed.  What was amazing was that in a time when we are used to seeing feminist ideologues on college campuses being rewarded with wild applause and almost universal agreement, the statement from Caprero yielded only one thing.

Tension in the room.

And you could see it, even through the small, grainy video image presented through the live feed, and hear it, even with the occasional audio glitches.

And then, something even more remarkable happened. Caprero was shot down cold.

Immediately following his statements, Paul Nathanson, co-author of Legalizing Misandry, dismissed Kimmel as “naïve” and brought the conference back on focus.  From there the rest of the event was underscored by the sound of academicians citing the horrific results of feminist ideologues being in charge of university programs and the research they produce; and of those same ideologues having sway over university policies that affect young men. It was a theme hammered on incessantly by Sommers and echoed by all but one of her peers.  And they clearly offered male studies as a needed remedy for this problem.

The focus was apparently a little too intense for Caprero.  He spent most of the remaining conference physically shrunken back from his peers.  He spoke more, but with far less self assurance.  The more they hammered in the need for the study of males not driven by feminist ideologues, the more he faded back into the wall.

And this is where he provided a valuable service to all watching.  The more academicians spoke of the problem with gender ideologues in academia, the more the one gender ideologue on the panel became insignificant to the conference.  If this is a foreshadow of how other ideologues will behave as real scholars sign on to study males, this may be easier than one might have at first thought. Perhaps as easy as light erasing a shadow?

One can hope.

One thing for sure, we will be finding out.  Journalists for Newsweek and Cosmopolitan were in attendance.

The conference get’s an A+, given a slight curve for Caprero.  It was a good start, but there are miles ahead to any viable destination.  Money needs to be raised, as well as more awareness, even on such an illustrious panel of experts.  Not once during this groundbreaking event did the word chivalry come up.  Or, as conference attendee Tom Golden, LCSW, said.  “They never even mentioned the chivalry that drives all this stuff.  Until they start addressing that, we are not going to get very far.”  Golden is the publisher of the website Men are Good,  and produced a seminal video outlining men’s issues.

Still,  this was an auspicious and hopeful beginning.  I can well imagine that if we would have had cameras and live feed at Seneca Falls, that we would not have witnessed a model of perfect unity, or perfect insights.  So imperfections notwithstanding, the case for male studies was made today, with effect and credibility.

As soon as the conference becomes available for online viewing, MND will bring you the link.

Congratulations to Ed Stephens, Dick Elfenbein, Joe Notovitz and the esteemed assembly of presenters for a job well done.

Paul Elam is the Editor-in-Chief for Men’s News Daily and the publisher of  A Voice for Men.

Bio available at my website
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  • keith

    @Mike LaSalle

    I agree with you and myself completely. A Masculist has nothing to do with “male studies”. However I believe “male studies” has everything to do with a Masculist. It is my hope that Masculist’s/MRA’s will reference the growing body of information of “male studies” to prime their insight into the male experience as they move forward to seek change. Not to recapture what losses are perceived. But to build a new social view and experience for men. I’m not looking to get women out of the military, I’m looking to get the military out of the military. I’m hoping and arguing that “male studies” is the cradle of a singular understanding of the “male”. Organic in essence and nature. I would expect a body of information that would stand seperate from political ideologies. I half expect we will discover that the biology of male experience before the age of 8 years is not unlike the male experience after the age of 55, after subtracting the socialization of ideologies.

    As for the masculist/MRA, this is the ideological warrior caste brotherhood. They remind us of who and what we are and what we may be. I would expect these men to nurture the process of “male studies” as protective fathers. So for me I am defining the lines and branches of the tree. I respect MRA’s as I would respect a father or grandfather or elder male. I further respect the process of “male studies” as a process that may reveal the equality of myself with these men.

  • Mr. Knight

    @ Mike LaSalle:

    Feminism is tribalism: it isn’t about equal opportunity, or any of the other egalitarian slogans feminists use as smokescreens.

    It is about ensuring that their favored tribe (women) has rights without responsibilities, opportunities without obligations, and gets credit without incurring culpability…

    …while the disfavored tribe (men) gets just the opposite (responsibilities without rights, obligations without opportunities, and culpability without credit).

    Feminism = tribalism.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/mike-lasalle Mike LaSalle

    I want an MRA to be a Masculist, but I want to see myself in his arguments. I want to retain my self respect and dignity. I want my rightful place in society and I don’t want it thrue lies, trickery, bigotry, or bullying. I want a lucid understanding layed out that I can own and move forward with. I’m not asking for an apology, or compensation, or acceptance for that matter. I want the freedom to understand who the hell I am and where the hell I am going. I want the freedom to love myself and my existence, and I want it now. I want my freedom from persecution based on accusation, and I want it now.

    I sure agree with almost everything you said — except that I have to reject the “masculist” label.

    I don’t think “Masculism” is the point of Male Studies at all… and Male Studies is what we are talking about.

    Listening to panel discussion, most everyone was particularly explicit in distancing the purpose, intent and SPIRIT of the Male Studies program from the ideological implications of the word “Masculist”.

    Dr. Stephens said that Male Studies was an “attempt to go beyond women’s studies and men’s studies.”

    Dr. Nathanson was blunt in declaring that a genuine critique of Feminism was inevitable. He talked about Equalitarian and Ideological Feminism, and said he had identified nine distinctive features of ideological thinking in the social sciences. In particular, he cited dualism as a signature of ideology.

    He basically cast “dualism” as a popular meme introduced from Indo-European roots. Dualism can be seen as the socially agreed divisions between “us” and “them”, wherein “we” are the representatives of moral good (and natural privilege), while “they” are the agents of moral evil.

    Feminist narratives typecast men in starring roles as “primary aggressors”, while women are uniformly suited for victimhood and state assistance.

    While I don’t actually agree that the Good/Evil paradigm is a meme (I think it’s an archetype), the Dualism argument effectively takes Feminism and Masculism off the table, because they are both considered ideologies.

  • keith

    Just a brief word from a knuckle dragger in a worn out tuxedo.

    “male studies”
    “men’s studies”
    “masculist studies”

    Not that the slide rule of psychology, sociology, and politics isn’t absolutely impressive and entertaining from all quarters. But the confusion to troglidite’s like me is causing a little apprehension and concern. Mostly because it would seem, that with the right label and the wrong intent attached to it, this whole discussion of “male studies” could be shut down. This part of the journey is the most important, in my view. That a paradigm such as “male” ; an organic, experiential, self-actualizing entity could exist exclusive of, or prior to, his political and social construct and entrainment, merits a peek. A sort of Darwinian look at which came first, the baseball or the bat. More importantly, is some answers for my son and for the boys that would be men.

    I want to know why Johnny cries at age five, but not at age twenty five. I want to know why Johnny is happier running in the playground than sitting at a desk. I want to know why Johnny stopped hugging me in front of his friends. I want to know just when and how Johnny became invisible, just when Johnny changed from Johnny and into a “male”.
    That johnny could possess a fluid core of perception residing within an organizational strategy to exist, violently expressing himself within a violent matrix of reality, isolated, alone and politically incorrect, is a curiosity to me.

    So I’m throwing in my two cents worth. (as adjusted for the cost of living, on a net basis after support payments.) It’s a guy thing.

    As a non-intellectual simpleton I try to understand the significance of three categories that keep cropping up and seem to be at odds with one another. Namely “male studies”, “men’s studies” and “masculist studies”. I personally don’t see the conflict between them, and see each as uniquely different. Equally I see “male studies” as important, needed, and insightful to understanding the other two. That someone might take the time and insight to recognize that the three areas are uniquely entwined and represent a social progression, expression and message that is “male” might help. I’m not well read or even educated for that matter. I do however from time to time notice things that others seem to overlook, so I’m throwing it out there for the more qualified to wield. In hopes that a finer mind will develop some clarity and share it in a common language for us all and especially for me and my son.

    I like to keep things simple to start and let the politics fuel itself. This way I can always go back to the start and evaluate my own bullshit against the original intention.

    male studies: who and what is he

    A process of disection, deconstruction, discourse, discussion and discovery of a male paradigm. Who and what is he unto himself.
    What is his biological nature and neccessities. What defines his point of continuity from birth to death. What of himself does he possess
    that would distinctly define him from his environment. This study seeks insight from the “Y” chromosome and the testosterone hormone.

    men’s studies: what is he experiencing

    An empirical evaluation of the quality of life, well-being and longevity of boys and men within a post nuclear culture. This study asks who and in what groups are
    men living longer and conversely dying earlier and why. What is the nature of equality, priviledge, prosperity and power. Are men increasingly disenfranchised from the institutions of health, education, employment, politics, media, law, religion and family. Does a selective interpretation of linguistic expression serve as a reasonable understanding.

    masculist studies: what can be done to effect a better outcome for men

    This study asks “have men had and do men have a voice or a duty in society”
    Should men submit to political ideologies of special interest groups that would limit the social significanse of men?
    By extention should anyone?
    Should reproductive ability compete with reproductive rights
    Does the technological ability to reproduce engender a partnership or a competition

    I want an MRA to be a Masculist, but I want to see myself in his arguments. I want to retain my self respect and dignity. I want my rightful place in society and I don’t want it thrue lies, trickery, bigotry, or bullying. I want a lucid understanding layed out that I can own and move forward with. I’m not asking for an apology, or compensation, or acceptance for that matter. I want the freedom to understand who the hell I am and where the hell I am going. I want the freedom to love myself and my existence, and I want it now. I want my freedom from persecution based on accusation, and I want it now.

  • Red0660

    This is just the beginning formation of the ideological and intellectual core infrastructure to establishing the rights of men, boys fathers and husbands. It is in fact the beginning of the establishment and representation of males as a separate socio-political class.

    As women have intended and stated it is now apparent that “the personal is political” and indeed it now is. From the policies and actions of women it is clear to me and many others that we must form ranks and engage women politically, socially and economically if we are to compete and negotiate with them for our common and disparate interests.

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  • http://www.genderindian.sulekha.com bharati

    I am both a Masculist and an MRA .
    the way I look a masculist has behaviour and belvies in gender equality where as an MRA works towards ensuring that is the ideal state of being .

    Being masculist is thought
    Being MRA is action

    I embody both.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/rogerfgay/ Roger F. Gay
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  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ HQR3

    Very, very important questions. I am forwarding your post to Prof. Miles Groth.

    I hope he will do an article on this for us.

    Thanks

  • HQR3

    One impediment to the spread of Male Studies is educating the educators. Who will teach these courses once they’re in place? Presumably, the instructors will come from other disciplines—hell no! not “men’s” studies. How will they be trained, and who will train them? Will they be vetted to not hold feminist sympathies, a non-trivial task on today’s campus. Developing a curriculum is one task, but controlling how it is taught is equally important. How do we protect the instructors from the behind-the-scenes attacks on their acquiring tenure if they teach Male Studies? (The fems are very good at making the opposition pay, especially in an academic setting.)

    These are few of the things we must concern ourselves with ahead of time, rather than just react when they happen. Four decades ago when the fems created Women Studies, they already had much of their infrastructure set: a cadre of man-hating academics straining at the leash, money, support, and, since academia was the epicenter of feminism, fertile soil to lay their pods. We only have commitmen…and truth.

  • chris

    How quaint.

    Removing several comments that don’t dovetail into the LaSalle-Elam fest.

  • Mr. Knight

    @ Paul Elam:

    Marriage contracts are effectively defined by the default actions of divorce courts: namely, to assign women rights without responsibilities and to assign men responsibilities without rights.

    And with marriage, like with abortion as I outlined before, there are three primary possible responses:

    1. Accept the irrational status quo. This doesn’t work because men are designed to not accept irrationality.

    2. Respond badly: by, for example, championing a ‘marriage strike’ while doing nothing to actually make things better. This doesn’t work either, because of the ‘while doing nothing to actually make things better’ part. Plus, so long as men procreate and the system stays as it is, they will be robbed of rights and money via the ‘its for the children’ mantra.

    3. Respond well: a core of the mess is that fathers are viewed as less necessary/valuable parents than mothers. That needs to change. Also, the marriage contract should not be defined by the government / divorce courts, but by the individuals getting married: including the terms of any future dissolution of that contract.

  • HQR3

    There is a donnybrook going on in the comment section over here regarding Male Studies and men’s issues in general. We ought to jump in. Happy hunting.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Dabir Dalton

    I would not doubt it if you told me you were 86′d from Stand Your Ground and GS, given the level of misandry I have seen in your posts here.

    But the rules are clear enough for anyone who is doing anything but looking for loopholes. And for those that are just looking for workarounds, it is why the rules give me the responsibility to make the call, and the authority. Says so right there in them.

    No one here is going to make an apology for that. It is just a necessary part of maintaining standards that result in MND attracting the caliber of people you have here for readers and the quality of the individuals on our masthead.

    I don’t think you have to worry about the “think like me or leave” problem. I find your thinking misandric and often repugnant. In fact, with your attitude about the MRM, I have no idea why you would even be here at all. Seems crazy to me.

    But here you are, posting away. And here you will remain unless you violate the posting rules.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Mr. Knight

    I certainly agree that MRA’s should not run from responsibility. But neither do I think they should retreat from common sense.

    And as good as I believe your intentions to be, your points are, IMO, lacking in that department.

    First, marriage is not an obligation that any man is mandated to take on, and as far as I know it never has been. Also, painting the idea that the only alternative to marriage is living in a cave is a complete non starter.

    Many great men have been bachelors, and many more will be. Inferring that a wife is necessary to being a productive member of society is pure fallacy.

    And I am not buying the “civilization destroying” hoopla at this point in my life, either.

    Fact is, monogamous marriage is a relatively new idea in terms of civilization, and an experiment in human culture that appears to be failing. It had no more to do with human beings becoming civilized than polygamy, or no marriage at all for that matter.

    All the love for tradition in the world won’t rewrite the history books on that one.

    What,IMO, western culture is faced with doing at this point in the scheme of things is adapting, not trying futilely to squeeze toothpaste back in the tube, and certainly not pressuring men into antiquated legal contracts with women that only leave them vulnerable to judicial rape.

    If you want marriage back, fix the laws first, then talk about what should be. The young men of this generation are not supposed to be the sacrificial lambs for older men who can’t or won’t adjust to moder realities.

  • Mr. Knight

    @ Mike LaSalle:

    “Choice for Men” is a poor response to a situation that is illogical: namely, that biological fatherhood begins at conception (as evidenced by genetics), but women are empowered by the government to kill the baby via abortion in the nine months between conception and birth as though biological fatherhood at conception was to be considered irrelevant…

    …and yet if she doesn’t abort, the same fatherhood at conception (evidenced by a DNA test) is suddenly pronounced paramount in regards to getting cash extracted from the baby’s father and handed to the mother…

    …and then when the baby’s father seeks even joint custody as a way of asserting his natural right to share a home with (and raise) his own baby daughter or son, suddenly biological fatherhood is pronounced virtually irrelevant again, as shown by the fact that it is close to impossible for unmarried fathers to get even joint custody.

    This is a set of irrational, illogical, civilization-destroying incongruities which men cannot accept, and should never be asked to accept, because their nature goes against what it means to be a man in the first place.

    So the only choice is to institute real resolutions.

    “Choice for Men” is a bad resolution. It exemplifies MRAs running in the wrong direction: not getting rights? Pronounce that you won’t accept responsibilities either!

    Same worldview as the ‘marriage strike’: on of those who have already surrendered and now just figure on hiding in a cave.

    The good, and necessary, solution to such situations is to fully empower in law the natural rights of fathers:

    Babies can’t be aborted between conception and birth over the mother’s objection;there need to be laws ensuring that babies can’t be aborted between conception and birth over the father’s objection either.

    That restores things the right way.

  • Dabir Dalton

    Actually Paul MND’s submission guidelines are both broad and subjective leaving it up the eye of the beholder to determine what is and/or isn’t bigotry. It was the think like me or keep silent if you disagree cause I’ll delete and ban ya if ya don’t attitude that I encountered on Stand Your Ground and Glen Sacks blog that began souring me on the men’s movement in the first place. I hope that I’m not seeing that attitude beginning to develop here on MND.

  • Ray

    masculist vs. an MRA”

    Well, I for one am still a little fuzzy (vague) on the distinction(s) between the two. The topic of male privilege has always seemed tied to gender feminist assumptions about a Patriarchal class of men who benefit (privilege) “all other men” and as we all are aware that’s pure bunk.

    “All other men” are as oppressed by elite men in power as much or more than they are beneficiaries of any real or imagined privileges.

    I read Mike’s assessment about choice and privilege, but when I have advocated for equal choice for men, I did not consider it a privilege, but a representative voice in a decision where two people had been involved in the creation of a new human life. And yes, each situation comes with its unique factors. In many cases were consent was common between man and woman, the father to be could want to abort or see the baby come to term and be born and the mother to be should have equal opportunity to have the same input. Further details such as adoption, child support, child custody, etc. AND THE FINAL DECISION would need to be “worked out” – if life is chosen for the baby.

    The opportunities for disagreement, or conflict, are many. If the two were opposed to each others decision who would cast the tie breaker and determine life or death? Would it be next of kin, or lawyers and judges? It’s all a very complex issue and any decision favoring one sex over the other carries a certain automatic privilege, in my opinion. Neither sex is better than the other, IMO. Biologically we are different. Historically, our roles have been different and they have changed radically as technology has developed. Male studies, or men’s studies, without gender feminist collusion, is urgently needed to give males a truly representative voice in areas regarding major roles in their lives where they have had no voice, have not been equitably treated, and have been told what their roles were by: church, state, feminists, history, chivalry, etc. (in no particular order), in my opinion.

    As fragmented, formative and ill defined as the MRA and FRA movement has been, it is not surprising to see different perceptions of even commmon words (to us) like masculist. If there is a proper definition for masculist like the one Mike has given, then I need to point out that the word is frequently misused and given a connotation of “equality between the sexes.”

    This is yet one more glaring example of the need for male studies, wherein ill defined or misused words about half the human race (males) can be properly used and established in an academic setting, thereby establishing a common (accepted) usage. It might even be possible to see words like masculist and misandry in dictionaries and spell checkers, when the humanity of males is finally, truly, accepted as a legitimate course of study in academia. – Sincerely, Ray

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Great MRN1

    All I can suggest you do is read our GUIDELINES, and try to understand the difference between freedom of speech, which we support, and our freedom to choose what is in this publication.

    http://mensnewsdaily.com/submission-guidelines/

    Anyone in this country is free to start a website and say whatever they choose. But any comments here that claim that men or women, black or white or any other group are inherently inferior to another will be deleted as long as I edit this website.

  • GreatMRNI

    I must say, I’m shocked that M.N.D would attempt to censor another brother’s opinion (Jay’s). To classify someone’s opinion as hate speech is too P.C. for M.N.D. or at least that is what I thought. Most of us Men come to this website to read about issues concerning men, and to voice our opinions about what we read. I found nothing hateful about what Jay stated and to some extent agree with him. Let’s keep MND for Men, regardless of what feminists or others want.

    Also, I too don’t have time for a debate. I just wanted to express my opinion. :-)

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/mike-lasalle Mike LaSalle

    I have received private emails concerning the debate in this thread between myself as the publisher of MND and Paul Elam, who is its editor-in-chief.

    Is there friction? Is this a sign of RIFT at MND?

    No.

    As a matter of fact, quite the contrary.

    As the publisher of MND I try not to stick my personal opinions into the mix too much. MND is not about me — it’s about you.

    But I do have a few basic guiding principles that frame MND’s editorial charter.

    One of these principles is Free Expression. Not withstanding people who use it to infringe on the rights of others, MND is a house of Free Expression. Everyone is entitled to express an opinion here, provided they make a cogent argument.

    This thread really got started when I pointed up Paul’s use of the term “masculism” in his article.

    That caught my eye because I already have a clear idea of what it means to be a masculist vs. an MRA.

    As the publisher, I was compelled to set the record straight about my view and the editorial position of MND.

    That’s it. This is not the sign of a rift at MND. Quite the contrary. It’s a sign of the good health and flexibility of this organization.

    And by the way, I want to make it clear: I owe Paul my deep gratitude – well all do.

    Paul: thank you for every thing YOU did to publicize this event…. and for everything you’ve done to bring Men’s Studies into the fold of polite society.

    You are a good man, brother Paul.

    Cheers

    Mike

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/mike-lasalle Mike LaSalle

    …we engage in a petty squabble over definitions rather than discuss what our next step will be.

    I don’t think there is anything petty about this discussion. Nor do I see any evidence of a squabble.

    If you need some clarification on this point, please read this article by Miles Groth, published on MND back in February:

    Male Studies and Men’s Studies: Not Simply a Matter of Words
    http://mensnewsdaily.com/2010/02/28/male-studies-and-mens-studies-not-simply-a-matter-of-words-2/

    Groth explicitly addresses this question of definitions, and he gives very precise reasons why the course is called “Male Studies”, not “Men’s Studies”.

    As an MRA, I see Male Studies as a very positive development. Out the gate, Male Studies is outside the long reach of institutional Feminists; they cannot co-opt it or claim it as their own. Male Studies begins with a set of assumptions that insulate it from on-campus ideological infections.

    It’s important to note that Male Studies does not operate in advocacy of men. But by its very existence, Male Studies will function in practice to refute ideological feminism through a new and scientifically-supported gender narrative.

    The distinction between “Men’s Studies” and “Male Studies” is not at all petty. The difference means everything. Ditto the distinction between MRAs and “masculists”.

    I think this is a healthy discussion.

  • Ken

    Every conference should allow a Caprero to speak. It provides a valuable contrast for the mis-informed to ponder AND it demonstrates the “inclusion” and “diversity of opinion” that feminist academics are always claiming to have.
    Anxiously awaiting Newsweek’s take on this, if it passes the editors desk that is.

  • SingleDad

    I can only speak for myself personally. I believe men and women are created equal and deserve all the same rights. Therefore, if our society gives a right to one group that affects the other, the other should have a corresponding appropriate right.

    I don’t agree with all that is going on in our society but my personal belief about most things don’t seem to matter to anyone.

    In those cases where I disagree with what society as a whole has decided to do I still think men and women should be treated equally in that area. I may disagree with the whole thing but I demand to be treated equally. This is about civil rights. This is for our sons and grandsons and, in the long run, our daughters and granddaughters.

  • http://dannyscorneroftheuniverse.blogspot.com Danny

    I wasn’t able to attend or view the conference yesterday. Was it by chance recorded for future viewing? Even I have to pay for it I would very much like to see/hear it.

  • HQR3

    I have always treated “masculist” and “MRA” as synonymous. Like “women’s libber” vs. “feminist,” masculist is merely the old form of men’s rights activist/advocate and not as much of a mouthful. As a term, “MRA” is the newbie. Whatever.

    But what’s really disappointing, and symptomatic of our movement, is that fresh from a conference that may very well be a game-changer in men’s rights, we engage in a petty squabble over definitions rather than discuss what our next step will be. I’m very sure our opposition, even before the conference, has been plotting how to co-opt Male Studies if it can’t kill it in its infancy.

    The thrust of our discussion should be how we protect it politically, expand it, disseminate it, keep it pure. We should have ideas on its content, emphasis, text materials, how it should be taught. Unlike the fems, we cannot count on a Ford Foundation to twist the arms of campuses nationwide to adopt it; but what we can count on is massive
    …(quiet)…
    opposition from academia, the feminist establishment, the media and all the usual suspects. We must proactively defend against these now.

  • http://google cudb

    Hello Paul,

    Thanks for your timely blog on the Conference that took place yesterday.

    I kind of feel that it was good that Mr. Caprero was there. Like others have said or alluded to hear, is that he reaffirms why a true Male Studies program needs to be established. Especailly one outside the relm of a Feminist mindset. I found it laughable that he mentioned Kimmel as well. I was started to think maybe he was kind of setup to be there as a plant by the clever organizers, :) .

    @ Jay H.

    Caprero said a lot of crap yesterday, and I caught that little line as well about, “Men as a group have social power over women.” I nearly fell out of my chair. I’ll have to go back and view it again as soon is it is viewable online, as there were so many things wrong with what Mr. Caprero was saying.

    Also I have to agree with Paul and Mike here. What you said about men being better than women was uncalled for. I’m not trying to score points with women, or the MND staff, but when MRA’s say things like this it discredits our movement. I don’t think many MRAs think like that, I hope they do not, I for one do not. Okay off my soapbox. Glad to have you here, and I hope that comment was just out of frustration.

    The rest of the panel was great besides Caprero. It was nice to see Hoff Summers go after Caprero, you could tell she was ready to let him have it. Caprero is definately one of those typical naysayer types…Men have everything! What are they complaining about!

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/mike-lasalle Mike LaSalle

    Could you please clarify how you define the tenets of Masculism and Men’s Rights Advocacy respectively, so as to illustrate the difference?

    MRAs are interested in the liberation of men and boys from the civil and social ravages of ideological feminism.

    Masculists at the very least appear guilty of responding to Feminism in kind rather than challenging the assumptions that gave rise to it. They want to give men a privilege corresponding to the privileges that women enjoy.

    For example, Masculists might want to express their co-equal privileges in the form of a “legal” abortion of their children to compare with a woman’s privilege to physically abort the same child.

    This is called Choice for Men. Here’s an old article that Glenn Sacks wrote on the topic. It appeared on MND way back in 2003:
    http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/sacks/03/sacks012203.htm

    “Choice for men” might be construed as an expression of Masculism in that Masculism asserts privilege for men.

    Choice for men might well be a FAIR response to the privilege women enjoy through abortion rights and their rights under child support. But it is still an assertion of special privilege, and for that reason I have to reject it.

    I remain an MRA, but I can’t be a masculist in good conscience.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Jay Hammers

    Here is a clip from our editorial guidelines.

    Men’s News Daily recognizes the diversity of voices in the world community and seeks to act as an inclusive and unbiased platform for the dissemination of ideas. Therefore, it is the policy of MND that any content, present in the publication or presented for publication, interpreted as hateful or inciting toward any group based on race, creed, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, political ideology or political affiliation will not be tolerated.

    I know those guidelines pretty well because I wrote them. And I wrote them in the same spirit of everything else I write. Because I believe in it.

    The idea that one class of human being is intrinsically better than another not only violates MND’s editorial guidelines, it violates both human decency and common sense.

    People are allowed to come here and be non PC. They are even allowed to come here and put their ignorance on full display. But this is not a place for bigotry.

    Please read and respect our guidelines or don’t post here.

  • http://jayhammers.blogspot.com/ Jay Hammers

    I found this article about MND’s troubles with Google News: http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/09/11/news-information-and-the-politics-of-survival/

    It puts more perspective on Mike’s stance.

    Even though I think it’s counter-productive to yield to feminists in order to be politically correct, I’m not going to continue the philosophical debate as I feel MND, with Paul Elam’s strong leadership, is doing good things for men.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Mr. K

    Neither a tempest nor a hot spot. Just a different view of the matters at hand.

    Whatever differences I have philosophically with Mike LaSalle, they are expressed with almost limitless respect for what this man has done.

    After all, he gave us MND. Certainly anything he believes is worthy of due consideration in my book.

  • http://jayhammers.blogspot.com/ Jay Hammers

    LOL, you strikethrough’d part of my comment? That’s just silly. Are you trying to not offend the delicate sensibilities of feminists, Mike?

  • http://jayhammers.blogspot.com/ Jay Hammers

    Women’s studies is a place for women to go to feel good about themselves.

    Men’s studies is also a place to go for women to feel good about themselves.

    The male studies curriculum is not a place for people to go to get the easy grade. It is an academic discipline to study males.

    Mike, if I’m too liberal and believe in global warming, I’m too much for MND.

    If I’m too conservative and recognize that men have advanced society far more than women ever have, that men are generally more interesting as people, that men create more meaningful works in all areas of society (literature, politics, music, engineering, etc.) then again I’m too much for MND. If I’m wrong about any of these things, please educate me!

  • Mr. Knight

    @ Mike LaSalle:

    Could you please clarify how you define the tenets of Masculism and Men’s Rights Advocacy respectively, so as to illustrate the difference?

  • Mr. Knight

    It still needs to be called Men’s Studies.

    But excellent work all the same.

    It would be great to get requests submitted to universities to establish Men’s Studies programs: not because that effort would be immediately successful, but because the negative responses from the universities would add to the case that MRAs need to refute.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/mike-lasalle Mike LaSalle

    Masculism is not about entitlements. It is simply about men being better than women, something which is intrinsic.

    Jay – this sort of language is a provocation and it’s unacceptable on MND.

  • HQR3

    First when I heard Chip Caprero speak, I thought the conference organizers, like some moderate men’s groups, had invited the opposition to appear even-handed. Then the cynic in me took over. Caprero’s appearance was intended to be a weak foil to the other panelists: a tooth-sucking example of exactly what passes for men’s studies, a living, mincing argument for the urgency of having “our thing.” For the non-MRA, he was the proof in boldface why men’s studies as it currently exists is insufficient, without being as disruptive as, say, a Carol Gilligan. He was the picture that was worth a thousand words.

  • Mr.K

    Mike LaSalle & Paul Elam,
    Long, long time I was in a conference where the Publisher and Editor of the Editorial Page disagreed, The Publisher got his final word when he said with a smile “I still sign your paycheck”. Later when the newspaper was sold to a conglamorate the Publisher got about $15 million.
    Because of my appreciation and admiration for both of you I hope this is just a tempest in the teapot and not a powerstruggle.

  • http://jayhammers.blogspot.com/ Jay Hammers

    The definition of masculism is unclear, but I take it to simply mean men ought to be dominant and women ought to be submissive.

    Feminists don’t like that.

    Rebecca West: “I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute.”

    I’m quoting someone else here, but “Submission is not meant to equate to abuse. After all, men are expected to submit to Christ. Such does not imply that Christ is abusive.

    Submission is the quality of acknowledging that the other person has authority over you. For example, if I should stop my car because police lights are behind me, I am submitting to legitimate authority. It does not mean that I am a doormat.”

    I’d say the dominant theme of feminism is further entitlements for women. Masculism is not about entitlements. It is simply about men being better than women, something which is intrinsic.

  • http://jayhammers.blogspot.com/ Jay Hammers

    I was tweeting during the conference: http://twitter.com/jayhammers

    Here was my first tweet regarding the pro-feminist douchebag you were talking about:
    “Wagner conference: pro-feminist claims men as a group have social power over women. Ridiculous”

    If anyone has social power these days, it’s women.

    They may not have mentioned chivalry but they did recognize the need not to paint men and stereotypes and the need within male studies to deal with feminism, specifically “ideological” feminism, the kind that paints all men as evil and all women as victims.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Mike LaSalle

    Well. I have parted company with worse people on more important topics.

    But suffice it to say, all this usually boils down to ownership of terminology with a smidgen of semantics added in to the mix.

    Never having identified with the term, I have no investment in it. But your post brings up some interesting points that I do think bear examination.

    First, what is a masculist or masculinist (Take your pick, both still get a red line on the spell check)? I mean, what does it mean aside from after market, pop culture definitions?

    We can, as a resort of sorts, consult a place like wiki for the following:

    Masculism is the advocacy of men’s rights and the adherence to, or promotion of, social theories and moral philosophies concerning issues of gender with respect to the interests and legal protection of men. The term masculinism was coined as the counterpart of feminism in the early 20th century. The shortened form masculism appears in the 1980s.[1]

    The masculist political movement originated with E. Belfort Bax’s 1913 The Fraud of Feminism.[2] The term masculism itself gained currency in the late 20th century, in the context of changing gender roles, advocated by authors such as Warren Farrell.

    With all great respect to Nathanson, I am pretty sure Farrell revived the word before the good scholar came in behind him with his own take on it.

    WIKI also includes a pretty significant list of “masculist” articles, many of which could easily have graced the pages of this publication with staunch reader approval.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_masculism_articles

    I am not yet totally ruling out that masculism could be this evil twin of feminism, but searching through MRA literature and elsewhere I cannot find support for the idea.

    In fact, to date, I have only heard the view of it as you describe in one other place. Today, from a clearly feminist scholar, who termed it as an ideology to “re assert male privilege.”

    Of course, I refute completely the idea that male privilege ever existed on its own in the first place, much less in it being reasserted.

    So what I do is go with the contemporary literature and my own “common sense” if you will.

    Our own Pelle Billing refers to masculism in he following way on his blog, from the article Masculism vs. Feminism, “The core agenda of masculists is to work with men’s rights and men’s issues.”

    That makes sense to me. Certainly more than a conspiratorial label with no corresponding evidence that it is such.

    In the end though, it is a word and little else. I hope some day we can afford, as men, to gnash teeth, hotly debate, and luxuriously tug and pull over such concepts.

    I just don’t think thet we are there yet.

    Paul Elam
    Editor-in-Chief
    MensNewsDaily.com

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/mike-lasalle Mike LaSalle

    And then he made the incredulous (and outright stupid) statement that masculism was an attempt to “re assert male privilege.”

    This is where I part company with you, Paul.

    In my opinion, masculism and feminism are co-equal culprits.

    From the conference, I am not sure who was talking at the time — maybe it was Nathanson — but he seemed to conflate Mens Rights Activists (MRAs) and “masculists”, as though they were one and the same thing.

    He also identified both “masculism” and “feminism” as ideologies based the idea of privileged-by-distinction.

    I have never seen you tout “masculism” up to this very moment, so it’s never been a bone of contention.

    So that our readers know, Paul is asserting a personal opinion in this article.

    It is my position that “masculism” is an ideology of privilege, and the twin of “feminism”.

    I do not support any brand or flavor of gender identity privilege.

    Mike LaSalle
    Publisher, MensNewsDaily.com

  • SingleDad

    Congradulations. This is truley a special time for men.

  • Ray

    “Journalists for Newsweek…”

    I’ll just wait for the Chinese account of the conference. It’ll make more sense as far, far less will be lost in translation.


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