It’s Time to Start Negotiating

A great piece, Pelle. And in my mind your questions are the ones that cut to the real core of men’s issues. Sure, there a injustices aplenty in the legal political realm, but the core of this stuff on the ground comes down to what your terms are with women on the personal level.

And as long as men keep rationalizing the acceptance of a bad deal, their lot in life will never improve.

Keep up the good work.

Getting a beer for a man or a cup of coffee is degrading women say when women do it, but kissing her hand, bringing presents, bowing, getting on one’s knees for marriage, standing when she enters a room, … is romantic? ( Would feminist call women waiting on men, bowing, scraping, getting on knees for marriage romantic (Men do it and women get the financial benefits of a man with more income, more education, more money, less closet space, fewer shoes, … then he dies younger and she inherits all his life’s labor, romantic, or stupid?) How is it that women are always the ones who tell men what is appropriate, what is romantic, what we should do for them? Starts with mom and ends with wives for too many men.

SD

Pelle…

Your Negotiating concept reduces marriage between a man and a women to the relationship of a prostitute and her john. Far better, wiser and safer in my humble view for a man to minimize his professional contacts as far as possible with females as well as outright avoid friendships, marriage contracts and intimate relationships with the opposite sex. Then to do as you suggest by attempting to negotiate a better deal with a modern day prostitute.

Divorce Courts vs. Prenups:

Divorce Courts: woman files for divorce, gets man thrown out of the home that he built and/or paid for, reduces the man to the status of a visitor in the lives of his own children, and in various ways lays an ongoing claim to the man’s money and future earnings.

Prenups: woman files for divorce, she leaves the family home that the man solely owns, and she has to get a job to pay her own bills because the man’s money stays with him.

Clearly, Prenups are the better option for men.

And if the man is the primary caregiver of his children within the marriage, then he can get sole custody too. Bundle that with a prenup and the whole debacle of women taking family and home from men in divorces would END.

Yes it is defiantly time to start negotiating. The measure of hypnotic vertigo that men dally in – in their relations with women is precipitous. We are not in Kansas anymore folks.

This really hit the nail on the head, women increasingly want to maintain their favored status but venture freely into fields of endeavor that most men are never fortunate enough to reach.
@ Dabir, you are exactly right; when women decide they want to step away from the roles for which they are best suited and get a “free pass” to try their hand in the man-game, a hooker-john type negotiation is exactly what ensues. But men didn’t start this game ad would be happy as clams to see it go. I don’t know a single man who would just fall over and die if he suddenly didn’t get to walk on conversational eggshells to avoid offending while doing some woman’s work for her.

Pelle, “negotiation” implies that one party (males) have (has?) the power, the ability and the opportunity to do so.

If there is no power on the part of males (and let’s face it, we males have nearly no power left) then this isn’t “negotiation”, it’s a case of “terms dictated to a demoralised imprisoned defeated enemy (ie: men) after an abject unconditional humiliating surrender”. Negotiation under THOSE terms consists of “sign the papers or else.”

Pelle, what you describe is all very fine, but let’s face it, it’s about as likely as Barack Obama going on international TV and begging the forgiveness of everyone affected by the present economic crisis because President Obama had been fooled by his own advisors into this utterly destructive grovelling to those who created the problem in the first place: the damnable banks. It’s about as likely as the same President Obama praising men for their raising of Society from the grinding misery of the Stone Age, to being able to land men on the Moon.

“Barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen”, the Feminists sneer. Sweetie, back then everyone was barefoot, and the “kitchen” was what the ravenous wolf-pack outside the door wanted to turn your hovel into – THEIR kitchen, with you and your children as the main course. That door keeping them out was built by men. The food you were too terrified to go and catch – or too weak, or too ill, or too whatever – that food was supplied by men. Women mainly collected nuts and berries near to the “home” (if such a word can be extended to the real conditions of the time), but fruit and nuts and berries only appear for a few months of the year. Given that the Stone Age also coincided with the Ice Age, then Winter would have been extended with the fruit-and-nut gathering conversely a shorter and shorter time. I’m sure some “Summers” did not exist at all, where the snow only slowed down, and did not stop falling. It was an ICE AGE, remember? The idea of anyone gathering berries and fruit and nuts in such conditions is laughably stupid, to put it mildly. The only source of food was (gasp) whatever animals that men could catch (shock, horror, yes, they actually ate meat, oh, the CRUELTY) and it was only men who had the physical capacity to do this.

This was another non-negotiable period in men’s existence: you either hunted, or were hunted. A slow-running cave man was seen as just as good a meal by a sabre-toothed tiger, (or cat… kinda big for a cat, though) as anything else that was slow, or badly prepared for the actual conditions… and I’ll leave you to try to negotiate with something that was larger than you, hungrier than you and much stronger than you – and thinks of you as nothing more than an easy meal.

Heck, I could be describing how men are now!

If President Obama wishes to castrate himself, well, that’s his business and I and everyone else have to respect that, even if we might find it a rather strange choice. The problem is, he is being shoved into a Social policy somewhat like his economic policy – it’s draw up by empty-headed lunatics. That he should have enough common sense to see this mess for what it is goes without saying. That President Obama cannot see it for what it is speaks volumes about how, if you castrate yourself, you have not just merely removed your ability to reproduce, but seemingly it also shuts down your ability to even raise a whimper of a fight to stand against the blatantly wrong. I presume President Obama’s excuse will be he had his mind… elsewhere… at the time. Well, if it happened to me, I’d certainly be thinking of the pain, rather than anything else so he might be on to something there!

In short, via both his own actions and inactions and by by the actions and corrupt advice from his advisors, President Obama no longer has the authority to negotiate, he merely has to Do As He’s Told, without question, and certainly without doing anything to restore his own credibility.

So, if President Obama does not have the “authority” to negotiate, WHO THE HELL DOES?

I put it to you – no man has the authority to do as you suggest, even if granted the so-called “legal right” to do so, simply because a “legal right” always stands below the SOCIAL right to do so. And now men do not have the social right to do a damn thing.

Young guys feel it the most keenly, which is why they commit suicide the most. Gay guys try to escape from it all by having sex with other guys and pretending it doesn’t affect them. Wow, are THEY in for a shock. It’s like Cambodia trying to maintain neutrality in the Vietnam War. The Khmer Rouge’s Year Zero and the Killing Fields follow, seemingly inevitably.

But first they practice on someone else.

So, no, Pelle, negotiations follow on from having the right to do so. I put it to you, right now, men do not have that right.

It is about time that we deconstruct marriage and the nuclear family from a masulinist view-point. It will show that these structures are the most effective way by which women oppress men. It is significant that men’s expected life time has risen at the same time that the nuclear family has dissolved.