Women’s Sexual Peak Rests Atop a Pile of Lies

2010-08-14
By

(Authors note: For those interested, Chuck Ross did an excellent piece of writing on this, in The Sexual Peak Myth, He approaches the subject with a good bit more scientific diligence than I am willing to do here.  I have already accepted that the subject is mythical and am much more interested in posing some questions about why this is the case.)

Some years ago I was at a night club with a group of men and women. Naturally the conversation turned to sex. One woman, in her late forties, said, in a good natured way, “It’s a shame that by the time men really learn what they are doing in bed, their equipment doesn’t work like it used to.”

“I understand how you feel,” I said, in an equally jovial tone, “By the time women start learning what they are doing in bed their looks start fading.”

Needless to say, my response, while as truthful as hers, more or less took her out of the conversation. It was not my intent at all, but you could tell by the look in her eyes that she felt like every line on her face was magnified a thousand times, reading like a giant “use by” date from the last millennium. Fortunately for me, I didn’t have all manner of ego and identity tied up in my penis, or I might have felt the same way.

There was a silver lining, though. It did spark a rather lively round of verbal sparring with the rest of the people at the table. And I am sure that it was a discussion that has been echoed millions of times at millions of night club gatherings.

Why is it that men and women hit their sexual peaks at such radically different ages?

And the answer is, of course, that they don’t. It is just another one of the myriad of lies we enable women to live for the sake of not disturbing their self image- and perhaps for the sake of getting in their pants in leaner times.

Where else but the current gender Zeitgeist can a woman with crows feet, sagging breasts, reduced sexual hormones, a vagina that does not lubricate as it once did, more difficulty conceiving and less ability to attract sexual partners of their preference, stand up and say “I am in my sexual prime,” and have everyone in their presence nod their head in agreement?

Only in a world where we tell women whatever they want to hear, no matter how ridiculous.

And it fits with some unfortunate realities in women’s lives to maintain the lie. An observation I have, one that I cannot back up with any research, is that as women’s biological clocks tick down toward the final moments, there is a tendency, in the words of Dylan Thomas, to rage against the dying of the light.

It’s not sexual primacy, it’s desperate horniness. Their fantasy of being in their sexual prime when they are well past it is only the labored breathing of someone in their last moments, struggling to suck air just a little while longer.

I am not knocking it. When I was 21 I had a 45 year old woman show me what fer, good and proper, for three weeks in a cabin in Oklahoma. It was an educational rite of passage and a very fond memory in my life. Wouldn’t trade it for the world.

But, let’s face it, the only one in that cabin in their sexual prime was me. I was a youngster with a gold mine of a horny older woman desperate for sexual relevance. And when the experience was over, I walked away smiling, and a little better equipped to take care of business with women who were, well, who actually were in their sexual prime.

And she had at least one more round of clinging to her sexual power; to her relevance in the world.

The point is that without sexual viability, the power of most women in this culture is reduced to whatever is afforded by rote chivalry. And while that chivalry affords them a great deal of latitude, it doesn’t provide them with the meaningful significance of a younger woman who still turns heads- and can have babies.

Being in your sexual prime is about being ready to make babies, not about how willing, or anxious, or desperate you are to be ridden hard and put up wet.

In the pure biological sense, infertile women, even those that just appear to be, are just so much excess baggage. And since women as a group either cannot or will not draw their self worth from anything but sexual power (NAWALT stipulated), we will forever have them demanding to live lies. And in modern times, they even have the option of paying surgeons to cut, suction and inject that lie until it looks damned near the truth.

Business is booming.

There is a solution to this, though it is doubtful we will ever get there.

Women, feminists in particular, have long lamented the male beauty standard. They claim it drives women to extremes like surgery and eating disorders, and results in damaged self esteem, all because men want women to look a certain way.

But of course, once you peel back the layers of victimized drivel and get to the core of the matter, you find that women drive themselves to do these things, biology leading them by the nose, because that is their quickest route to personal power, and because they don’t rise above it and find relevance in other ways.

Like the ways men do.

When women collectively quit worrying about sexual primacy and start focusing on their own innate human potential, when they learn to value their own accomplishments more than they value what they can sexually manipulate out of men, the plastic surgeons will be out of business and their bad self esteem, rather than their personal significance, will be facing expiration.

What’s that you say, women already are like that? They already do more on their own than they try to get men to do for them through sex and other forms of manipulation?

Well, I would like to address that here, too. But I only take on one lie at a time.

Paul Elam is the Editor-in-Chief for Men’s News Daily and the publisher of A Voice for Men.

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  • Squiggy

    Spot on, Paul. If middle age was the female sexual prime, men wouldn’t be tempted by younger women. Not that I’m advocating going for younger women. They’re insane, for the most part. But at least they’re not desperate.

    By the way, about that picture you put up…. It reminds me of a poster I saw in a butcher shop, with the prime cuts marked out. Though that one had a drawing of a real cow on it.

  • Mr.K

    I can visualize virgin Paul Elam humping in the wood cabin in Oklahoma.(Paul is in Texas) What’s wrong with Okie boys? Or did you travel across state line for immoral purpose or scientific research?
    But Paul’s apparition destroys the myth many men have been fed for decades. The X axis. As men mature they want sex while women want a family. The, supposedly men want to settle with family while women’s sex drive goes up.
    Paul Elam, like others before him, has discovered that the cause of Hysteria may not be cured by ancient methods as postulated by Hippocrates.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria
    Until the seventeenth century, hysteria was regarded as of uterine origin (from the Greek ?????? “hystera” = uterus) in the Western world. Hysteria referred to a medical condition, thought to be particular to women, caused by disturbances of the uterus. The term hysteria was coined by Hippocrates, who thought that suffocation and madness arose in women whose uteri had become too light and dry from lack of sexual intercourse

  • Greg

    Ben Franklin had a suggestion about dating older women….”They don’t yell, swell or tell and they’re grateful as hell.”

    Myself…they’re so cute when they’re claiming they’re somehow at their sexual peak and nobody wants it. How sad for them…delusions always are sad, when they demand we pretend their delusion is somehow a good thing, while at the same time they’re insulting us…naw, but to give em’ the truth.

  • chid

    Paul, you say: “Women, feminists in particular, have long lamented the male beauty standard”

    It doesn’t seem like you understand feminism (many women don’t either). Feminism is not about the ‘male beauty standard’. It’s not about men imposing any kind of social control on women (though not to say that that doesn’t happen). It’s about both sexes learning to recognise the constraints that are put on them by the social and cultural entity known as ‘patriarchy’ in which prescribed gender roles are assigned to members of each sex, negating and disallowing any personal characteristics that may not fit (such as emotionality in men and physical strength in women).

    If women are lamenting the ‘male beauty standard’, ignore them. They don’t get it. Because yes, they do those things to themselves. But they do them because of a social conditioning that has historically materially benefited men. Change will come from both sexes waking up and choosing not to buy in, but blame will fix nothing.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Chid

    Oh, God, not another one of these. *sigh*

    Feminism is about using the political and legal infrastructure to garner exclusive entitlements and unfettered power for women,under the false guise of pursuing equality, and always has been.

    Your Peter Pan definition is pure hype, and reflects that it is you that does not understand what feminism is.

  • Kris W

    Chid, I hate to break it to you, but over the last 30 years feminism has proven itself to be nothing more than a female supremacist hate movement. Heck the last 2 years has proven as much(feminist’s cheer with glee as men suffer economically, feminist’s cheering in glee as more and more males drop-out and or don’t continue their education).

    And here is a news flash: THE PATRIARCHY IS A MYTH! It never existed in the modern era. The social paradigm of the 1950′s was a direct result of “The Mothers of the Republic” women’s right movement of the 1800′s who fought for the right to stay at home and raise children!

    Before that most women(except the wealthy) had to work. Be it in a factory, field or as a servant; women worked too. Women where paid less because before the advent of modern machinery most work was done with muscle. And pay(especially among laborers) was based on how much work you could do.

    And another thing chid, it has been scientifically proven that male infants(extrapolate from there because during growth there is no emotion killing hormone released) are more emotional than female infants.

    And what is this thing called “male beauty standards”? Is it some kind of secret code or master plan? NO! It is basic male-human sexuality. It is what guy’s find attractive. Sure a guy can get desperate, but given the option between Marilyn Monroe(in her prime before her unfortunate death) vs some unfortunate chick that fell off the ugly tree and hit every branch, no amount of “social engineering” will help improve the wildabeast’s odds.

    And I dare say male sexuality is far more honest than most female sexuality.

    One more thing Chid, you are completely ignorant of what life was like. If we get hit with a solar storm I don’t think you would last a month without electricity. Before electricity and the modern era life was hard, short and brutal. People needed something to cling to, some purpose and order to life. And once upon a time gender roles served a very good purpose.

    Womens gender roles may seem oppressive by our standards, but men back then where forced to live a life that makes PTSD seem like a joke(no offense or disrespect to people who suffer from that potentially debilitating condition). By putting women up on a pedestal(social conditions of the “enlightened era to Victorian era” mainly as most “Chivalry” was reserved for the daughters of nobility prior to those era’s) it gave society order and men(and women) the hope of a better tomorrow.

    Yet you talk of “social structures” that only really exist in your own imagination, is it ignorance or bigotry? Either way don’t expect to be taken seriously. Maybe if you studied rationalism and took it to heart you would realize how foolish you are. But then again most people prefer to live the life of the self deluded.

  • http://shatterdmen.com/ Shatteredmen

    We all know about ED. how can we help it with all of the ads we see lately for it? We all know how feminist say men think with their “little brain” but in some cases of ED, this could be true. You see, our brain is our largest sex organ. Often contrary to what we have been led to believe, most men are not just looking for the next woman to hop into bed with. Most men want a relationship also but we have been fed a load of lies just as we have with “everyone’s doing it” so it must be OK. Many think that Kinsey did this with his earth shaking book on sex and made it sound like many things were the norm when it was not.

    Many men who have been married for any length of time know that often their wives is not in the mood many times when they are. This alone shows that women are not in their prime as we are told but I contend that one result of this not being in the mood so often is…ED in men. Sort of why get all dressed up for party just to stay home. Of course there are several medical reasons for ED but one area that does not often get explored is “is your wife cold?” IF she is, and if she has little if any interest in sex I do think it will lead to Ed for their husband especially if he wants to remain faithful to his wife.

  • http://shatterdmen.com/ Shatteredmen

    @ Paul

    “Feminism is about using the political and legal infrastructure to garner exclusive entitlements and unfettered power for women,under the false guise of pursuing equality, and always has been.”

    Without double standards, feminism could not exist.

  • chid

    Maybe I’m on the wrong website, but I’m going to respond with the assumption that people here are capable of looking outside of their preconceptions and listening to an alternative idea.

    I agree that feminism has been used as a cover philosophy for many women to justify “using the political and legal infrastructure to garner exclusive entitlements” etc. And I understand that this kind of ‘feminism’ is the one that is most commonly seen and hence why many people believe it to be feminism.

    The point that I tried to make in the last post was that this is not really feminism. And any ‘feminists’ practicing this kind of feminism are deluded, self-serving, and are giving others a bad name – IMO the source of your complaint against feminism.

    Kris W, I really don’t understand much of your post or how it is relevant to mine, but thanks for your input ;) .

  • http://denisspaceeh.spaces.live.com/ Denis P

    What they’re doing is putting a positive spin on the “sluttiness prime” to provide justification and normalize the cougar culture of preying on young men.

    Prime/Peak means “at the top” and that can only apply to the alpha-female that all the males are attracted to.

    However, I prefer older women just because they are more likely to self-analyze and reject the princess mentality.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ chid

  • Maybe I’m on the wrong website, but I’m going to respond with the assumption that people here are capable of looking outside of their preconceptions and listening to an alternative idea.
  • Try to get this the first time, chid. This statement from you means absolutely nothing. I can tell you as editor here that MND readers overall are from some of the best demographics possible; highly educated on average and more diverse than the major feminist websites.

    You are not going to reach anyone here by setting out a insanely unrealistic expectation that they abandon the idea of feminism as it has shown itself in the culture, and affected them personally, in favor of your dream feminism that only exists in the ideals of those who don’t want to hear anyone talk about what real, day to day feminism is about.

    And to set out that kind of challenge with the idea that we are somehow narrow minded for not seeing your personal larger picture is a major FAIL.

    You are at the right website. It is just you that is wrong.

  • http://www.shatterdmen.com/ shattered men

    @ child

    Personally, I am just as opposed to masculism as I am to feminism as I see each looking for their own special interest no matter what it cost the other side. Yes I do think women had a legitimate complaint years ago but all of those wrongs have been addressed and have been overly corrected long ago. On the other hand, all the time women had these legitimate complaints, men had legitimate complaints too and have throughout history such as knowing that society thinks our lives are less valuable than a woman’s. YES I would forfeit my life to protect my wife and most likely I would in many situations be they male or female but it should be MY choice, not demanded of me simply because I am a male. This women and children first did not end on the Titanic. It was on an jet liner that landed in the Hudson recently too.

    I get sick and tired of being called a winnie, angry boy anytime I try to point out that men are abused too as I seek help for these men who have no place to go although we are paying tax dollars to provide shelters for half the abused people simply because they are female. Oh yes, abused men do have some resources…you can check those resource here

    http://www.shatterdmen.com/Women%20Shelters%20Arrangments.htm

    Pay attention to the part starting with and following:

    It has come to our attention that this page is linked on a feminist blog as a complaint about the men’s rights movement in general. I have tried to reply on this site but was unable to so I am replying here for those who find their way here from that site. I ask, why is it OK for these radical feminist to always demand rights for women but anytime a man states there should be equal protection as is supposedly guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States we are called whinny little boys or worse. The blog this was on it by a radical feminist but she does think men and women should have rights and responsibilities. The problem is, she thinks women should have the rights and men should be responsible to assure they have all of them. The following is from this site:

    Also go on to the resources men have

    http://www.shatterdmen.com/Battered%20MEN%20shelters.htm

    While you are at this site, check out what services are given to women but are not available to men

    http://www.shatterdmen.com/VAWA%20II.htm

    http://www.shatterdmen.com/VAWA%20too.htm

    http://www.shatterdmen.com/VAWA.htm

    Child, each of these pages have a contact icon at the bottom where you can find out how to contact me so we can show you so much injustice that men face every day. I do not want to use MND to do this…most everyone here already know it.

  • http://www.shatterdmen.com/ shattered men

    @ chide

    I want to say something about what Paul said just before me…”You are not going to reach anyone here by setting out a insanely unrealistic expectation that they abandon the idea of feminism as it has shown itself in the culture, and affected them personally, in favor of your dream feminism that only exists in the ideals of those who don’t want to hear anyone talk about what real, day to day feminism is about.”

    Chidi use to be on the exact ….no a far worse side than I am now. About 12 years ago, I use to be not only a feminist but a radical feminist. You can read about it here:

    http://www.shatterdmen.com/Kens%20Story.htm

    More important, It can and does effect many men and I have also had some women tell me after reading the link above that they felt just the opposite…they hated being a woman. But let me post something that I wrote for Shattered Men in light of a recent 3 state stabbing spree that left 5 men dead. (Paul I hope you do not mind but my heart breaks over this)

    Most of us are aware of the three-state stabbing spree in the United States leaving 13 people wounded in addition to five who were killed. Authorities have tried to make it a racial issue as most of the victims were Black. I do not think it was racial. It appears there were three victims in Israel also and those three plus the 13 here all have one thing in common…..they were all MALE. I posted this in the news article you can find here”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_serial_stabbings

    Perhaps they cannot find a motive because they refuse to recognize the motive. There is one thing that is in common for all of his victims….they were all MALE.

    “Acquaintances said Abuelazam’s father died of illness when he was a baby, and that he was raised by his single mother and four sisters.”

    I think he was brought up to hate males and it was even worse for him because he is a male but I think he was taught misandry (you may have trouble looking this up but you can find it by searching for it on line) I also believe there is more misandry in our society than m Google has 97,900 hits for misandry while misogyny has 1,010,000 It would seem that far more people, both men and women accept misandry as social justice while they condemn misogyny. The fact that males are often considered the disposable gender also shows misandry in our society. Very few protest when only males are killed but we hear all sorts of screams when women are made uncomfortable. Microsoft Word will correct any misspelling of misogyny while it does not even have misandry listed

    From the Urban Dictionary

    Hatred of men. An acceptable form a bigotry in today’s society. Not only are many women misandrist but many men have been influenced to believe that their gender is one of predaceous oppressors. Misandry can be seem in many forms of entertainment where men are often portrayed as stupid and malicious. Violence against men is also seen as funny. Many courts are also misandrist, especially family courts, and discriminate against men on a regular basis Despite this many men refuse to recognize that there is a problem at all. This could be because of various factors including feeling like a victim makes a man less masculine, education teaches that women are victims and men are predators, and simply that ignorance is bliss.

    Examples of misandry are…

    Men are parasites.
    All men are potential rapists.
    Men are stupid.
    Men are not needed in today’s world.
    From the above definition, I believe it is right on for the person that did commit these crimes.

    For those who will reject this without thought, remember that your father, your brother, son, uncle or husband could be the next victim of misandry. Of course, than some of you will not care. I have even heard some mothers even state that it would be better for their son to be hurt than their daughter because he is only a male.

    I have newsflash for you. MEN have feelings too. We bleed and often do so willingly to protect women and children. Far more men are willing to die for women they do not even know than there are men who will harm them. One example is the Titanic. Hundreds of men died needlessly because they were male and rather than risk swamping life boats with empty seats and risking the life of the women in them, they chose to die.

    The Bottom line: Is it not time to value ALL our people¦.even if they happen to be male?

  • Mr.K

    Shatteredman,
    When I’ve seen the revolving cross atop your site I felt apprehensive that it my alienate others of different faith. But you quote ” Not only that, but I’m also Jewish, but Ken’s loving kindness knows no bounds.”
    Are you a member of this organization?
    http://jewsforjesus.org/

  • http://www.google.com/profiles/mike.lasalle Mike LaSalle

    Responding to Chid -

  • It’s not about men imposing any kind of social control on women (though not to say that that doesn’t happen). It’s about both sexes learning to recognise the constraints that are put on them by the social and cultural entity known as ‘patriarchy’ in which prescribed gender roles are assigned to members of each sex, negating and disallowing any personal characteristics that may not fit (such as emotionality in men and physical strength in women).

    I agree that feminism has been used as a cover philosophy for many women to justify “using the political and legal infrastructure to garner exclusive entitlements” etc. And I understand that this kind of ‘feminism’ is the one that is most commonly seen and hence why many people believe it to be feminism.

    The point that I tried to make in the last post was that this is not really feminism. And any ‘feminists’ practicing this kind of feminism are deluded, self-serving, and are giving others a bad name – IMO the source of your complaint against feminism.

  • It think it might help to consider the word “Feminism” as a standalone, and not try to describe it as this, or that, or what it is and what it isn’t.

    Just the word for a moment:

    Feminism.

    Out the box, it is unbalanced. The word “feminism” is a unique differentiator, meant to highlight one of the two sexes.

    Evidently “Feminism” does not exist in a vacuum of gender and sex.

    Feminism by definition creates and imposes a DIFFERENTIAL on the sexes, wherein one sex — the feminine — is consciously selected and even given its own pedagogical sign.

    But this ism cannot stand by itself. Declaring any idea a “Feminist” idea is ridiculous on the surface. Nothing that can be “feminist” can escape a “masculist” critique.

    Personally, I think the whole Derrida gender deconstruction motif is a dirty business from the get-go. How can a do-good social philosophy like Feminism declare itself the guardian of the world without first being the guardian of its First Class?

    And what is feminism if not a declaration of the First Class?

    Chid, you cannot begin to apologize for the lopsidedness of this word “feminism” that you defend, even before you begin to explain for us why this ism is better than that ism.

    All your houses look alike to me.

  • http://www.shatterdmen.com/ shattered men

    @ Mr K

    No I am not a member of that organization nor was Sue the person who wrote that. It was her website that helped me change my mind. Unfortunately, Sue’s website no longer exists and I have lost contact with her. She was handicapped at birth and was abused by her mother. When she posted in feminist forums asking about abusive mothers, she was called a liar and her membership and post in those forums were history. She wrote to the NOW organization and was again called a liar because mothers do not abuse their children. As a result, she did her own research and crated a website about abused men and she did it when it was very difficult to find anything about abused men.

    As to the website, I am a pastor but anyone is welcomed to be a member of SM and we have even had a witch as a member as well as several homosexuals. I will give strong reasons why a right relationship with God is the first step toward a right relationship with others but I will not cram it down any one’s throat. I have even had another pastor on moderated posts and would not approve many of his posts because it was doing just this. I strongly believe the best preaching I can do…is living what I preach.

    I also contend that there are many Christian men who are abused in their homes including..pastors, several of whom have been or are members. These men have no place to go and I have encouraged secular abuse sites to include SM as a resource and say it is faith based so anyone that is a Christian will know there is a place for them to find help. SM is the ONLY place I know for a man to find help from a Biblical point of view. There are dozens if not hundreds of sites that say they are Christian sites but they mimic all of the gender feminist stats and would get the NOW seal of approval. We will not turn anyone away that is honestly seeking help and we do have many women in SM some of whom came to SM hating all men but now are helping them.

    I trust that this has reassured you that we will not cram the Bible down any one’s throat.

  • steven deluca

    Female sexual peak is aroung the time of the wedding, isn’t it?
    That’s what some of my friends have told me about their wives.

  • Mr.K

    Shattered men,
    Thank you for your clarification. I hope I didn’t distract you from the work you’re doing. But I was somewhat confused by the contradictory wording.

  • http://www.Cyclotronmajesty.net CM

    Good writing. I think it clarifies the matter totally – not that it wasn’t obvious already for all to see… But we live in a world where we have to tip toe around the egg shells of feminine egos so that business will continue smoothly, minimizing drama. Sometimes we forget the stitch of bullshit due to our olfactory senses being benumbed by the onslaught. Yet It’s good to remember and notice it regardless of the foul smell just so that we don’t loose the rest of our senses and walk into a big pile of it and drown.

  • scott

    Bold piece Paul.

  • http://www.mens-rights.net Chris Key

    There’s an old saying.

    “Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.”

    Young women use sex as a means of controlling, defrauding and hurting men. It’s why I don’t have much sympathy for the older women who lose their ability to control, defraud and hurt men via sex. Their complaints about it are akin to an evil dictator like Saddam crying like a baby because they were overthrown.

  • http://www.b-58.net montague

    Wait a Minute Paul!

    Women in their 40s-50s ARE in their prime — if they are not obese.

    Any trim average looking well-dressed woman in their 40s or 50s can score effortlessly tons of 20-30 something handsome guys who are desperate because over 60% of the women in their age group are 30+ pounds overweight. Note to any women/manginas saying that men are obese too: start up a TV show for obese men and become a billionaire.

    The explosion in fat chicks means that most trim 40-50 somethings have way many more opportunities now than 20 years ago when the fat- chicks-to-buff-guys ratio was a lot more in balance.

  • http://avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    @ Montague

    I don’t think that flies. All the fertility (and thus attractiveness) markers are fading by that age. And to say that fit women at 40-50 can get a lot of young men to have sex with them doesn’t mean anything when a 21 year old woman, similarly fit, can get those guys and all the rest that aren’t gay.

    I am not saying that older women can’t be attractive or get sex, per my personal anecdote, but that is not the same thing as being in your prime.

  • keith

    In this description of the “prime”, it does seem defined by the wet and willing.

    I guess if women figure men for only gratuitous sex, then they must also figure that they reach their prime when they reach gratuitous.

    It would seem that these tenderized loins are looking for a good old patriarchal porking. Even horny old feminists get tired of the vagina monologue.

    For those wondering why obese and overweight feminists will not have sex standing up. It might lead to dancing!!!

  • RebelliousVanilla

    montague, I wish what you said would be true. But I know it is a lie and I am a woman. You see, if women would be in their prime in the 40 to 50 decade, I wouldn’t have men lined up for me now, when I’m 20. I’m pretty sure that if I will wait 25 years, I will have less offers. From my observations and I’m a fairly good at evolutionary psychology and simple looking around with my eyes open, we peak in desirability in our late teenage years after which we experience a super slow decline in desirability until we are 25 and then it accelerates and a 30 it falls quite a bit more and by 35 it reaches almost 0. For men, it is the opposite in some ways. Their desirability peaks at about 35. At least I find men in their mid 30s the hottest. They are… well, men.

    Paul, good luck with your work. You do a good job.

    chid, we do it because we are programmed by our DNA to do it. Men are programmed by their DNA to want fertile women, not infertile old, dried up hags who had sex with a bunch of football teams. That’s the truth. And I have a new motto – patriarchy FTW! If I could have everything as it was 100 years ago, I’d trade it in an instant. You know, men being men, we being women. Not all this social pathology and crap. I can only dream though.

  • http://www.mens-rights.net Chris Key

    A year or two ago I read an article about middle-aged women learning how to pole dance. I think the behaviour of the middle-aged women sums up everything we need to know about women’s stance on sex and work. They prefer to be sexual creatures who are attractive to men because it’s more beneficial than participating in the workforce. Being the object of a man’s desire is more exciting for them than sitting behind a desk.

  • MikeM

    From my experience, I could never tell when a certain female would be in their prime or at what age it did not matter if they were 20 or 50, I would always have to take the initiative or simply wait for my partner to get into the mood as far as I am concerned the female is rarely in a state were they will want sex in a continuous rate, they is always some ailment or emotional factor that will slow their prime or they will do the deed to satisfy the needs of their partner, whatever the reasons, I don’t believe that there is a certain time where a women would be in their prime while for a man this is dominated by the testosterone produce throughout their life and the less there is the less the demand exist but even if the male prime is at a peak at 25, it will stay very strong for quite a while enough time to enjoy a great sexual appetite during the best years of your life.

  • lou

    Another eye opening article from this website. I want to thank the creators of this for telling it like it really is. We need more of this! The feminist agenda has ruined this country and needs to be destroyed once and for all. Maybe then will we get back to some sort of normalcy.

  • julie

    Paul, IMO you have the right to be sexist as a free world allows it, but you are the wrong man to be a representative for men when all you care about is hating women. You say you are the happy misogynist but for real men are suffering. You have turned this site into a site dedicated to women. I can’t remember the last time I read an article for men, When is your leadership over? Do readers get to vote who the editor is or do all men have to fight women because you don’t like them?

  • squiggy

    Yes, Julie. We hate women. Even those of us who are married and have daughters. In fact, the secret name of this website is Men (who hate women)’s News Daily.

    Are you serious? Anyone who disagrees with your point of view “hates women”?

    Grow up. And go away.

  • julie

    Squiggy, I know heterosexual feminists don’t strongly hate men and it’s funny to hear them say things about men when they sleep with one every night and have sons. Likewise I know heterosexual masculists don’t strongly hate women and it’s funny to hear them say things about women when they sleep with one every night and have daughters. *doesn’t apply to all feminists/masculists.

    But I said what I felt – that’s me. I will still look here now and then to see what American men’s rights men are up to and say little or nothing in future. I’m sure you all do lots for men but it would be nice to read about it now and then.

  • carrie

    So the moral of this article is, women have absolutely no relevancy or worth as human beings if men aren’t sexually attracted to them? Got it.

    Also, women should stop having sex when they get old, because they get wrinkles and stuff sags. Men, however, should commence having sex, because everyone knows that men don’t get wrinkles, sagging genitals, beer guts, or impotence! Got it!

  • Squiggy

    Yes, Carrie. Aging women should be put out to pasture.

    And angry, bitter, holier-than-thou women should be sent to the slaughterhouse.

    And don’t even get me started on what should be done to ugly angry, bitter, holier-than-thou women.

    /sarc-off

  • Alice

    Thank you for this article.

    I know this might sound harsh, but I can guess why this myth exists.

    Women hoping they can be like men
    Traditionally being older and thus more financially secure is an asset to a male-and women are hoping this will be true for them, as well.

    I remember watching this video about women who could not find husbands. First thing you notice is that they are older,30s and 40s. They have spent their youth pursuing careers (and most likely rejecting suitors) so now the biological clock is ticking and they want to settle down. After all, this is how some men do it, so why can’t they?

    What works for a man doesn’t always work for a woman, and unfortunately, I think more and more women will be rudely awakened to this fact.

    I can understand menopause and peri-menopause can be very distressing and/or confusing times, so here comes the ego boost. I can understand this.

    I have known men who fooled around with older women when they are younger, but they attention has shifted to younger women. This isn’t to say that older women/younger man relationships can’t be loving and fulfulling, but what happens when it’s time to have kids?

  • DonnieH

    Dear Alice,

    You said “Women hoping they can be like men. Traditionally being older and thus more financially secure is an asset to a male-and women are hoping this will be true for them, as well.”

    Yes, I believe many women thought that being financially successful would prolong their sexual relevance and push out their Wile E. Coyote moment indefinitely. The stupidity of this is truly stunning. It is the equivalent of a man who is unemployed and sleeping on his buddy’s couch thinking women will find him more attractive if he wears red pumps and eye shadow.

    I would probably feel more sympathy for them if they hadn’t spent the last 40 years telling men that we’re like bicycles to fish. They got exactly what they wanted, and if it didn’t turn out the way they expected why should any man care?

  • carrie

    squiggy- I haven’t read anything by anyone in this forum to the contrary. The majority of the comments here do seem to state that “older” women are ugly and undesirable. The author states, “When women collectively quit worrying about sexual primacy and start focusing on their own innate human potential…” how are women supposed to do this when the first and foremost way they are judged is by youth and apperance, as this article and comments shows?

  • carrie

    @ shattered men:

    “I get sick and tired of being called a winnie, angry boy anytime I try to point out that men are abused too as I seek help for these men who have no place to go although we are paying tax dollars to provide shelters for half the abused people simply because they are female”.

    Can you tell me what percent of males get abused/rapes versus what percent of females get abused/raped and get back to me? Thanks.

  • carrie

    @ DonnieH:

    “Yes, I believe many women thought that being financially successful would prolong their sexual relevance and push out their Wile E. Coyote moment indefinitely.”

    So all women who aspire to be rich DON’T want:
    -to be self-sufficient
    -respect and the intellectual stimulation that comes with a good career
    -nice house, clothes, car, etc

    ?

  • carrie

    @ shatteredmen:

    In one of your earlier comments you put the possibility of blame of a man’s ED on his wife’s lack of sexual interest. However, since ED is typically attributed to aging and older men, and since we’ve learned from this forum that older men are only attracted to younger women and vice versa, perhaps we can conclude that the (probably younger) wife finds her aging husband repulsive? After all, everyone knows how disgusting older women are! Are old men really that much better looking?

    I guess these old women have to get their rocks off somehow, so they “prey on” younger men (see Denis P.’s comment at the top of the page), in the same way older men prey on younger girls- no, wait, scratch that; I guess it’s different because of human evolutionary biology. Got it.

  • Squiggy

    carrie
    2010-09-04 at 4:40 am

    squiggy- I haven’t read anything by anyone in this forum to the contrary. The majority of the comments here do seem to state that “older” women are ugly and undesirable.

    That’s what you get out of all this. That men find older women undesirable. Your insecure, angry side is showing.

    Besides – we both know you won’t practice what you screech. I’m quite sure you won’t run out right now and find you a fifty-ish bald guy with a gut.

  • carrie

    Squiggy- So if I disagree with you, I’m screeching? Very mature.

    I’m 23, so of course I’m not going to run out and start dating a 50ish bald guy.

    HOWEVER, when I’m 50, and I’m married to someone who’s 50, I would hope I would have the self awareness to realize: I don’t look like I did when I was 23, and neither does my partner. We’re both human beings who age. And because I would have married him not JUST for physical apperance, but for intelligence and character, I would hope that I would still be enough in love with him- and he with me- that the aging we’re both experiencing doesn’t matter to our sex lives.

    I GET that not everyone is going to find women or men older than they are more attractive. It’s perfectly natural. As I just said, I’m 23- so a stereotypical 50 year old guy isn’t going to appeal to me, and I imagine a stereotypical 50 year old woman isn’t going to appeal to most 23 year old guys.

    I am just trying to point out a double standard I see in this article and comment section- men criticizing women for losing their looks as they get old, but don’t men get old too? Should they lock themselves in their rooms as they age with a playboy so they don’t disgust the younger people with their oldness? The comments on here seem to suggest that not only NO NONE wants to have sex witrh an older woman, but the thought of an older woman having a sexual appetite is absolutely disgusting and pathetic.

    The age range of the commenters for this article seems to be older- which makes the article and all these comments doubly ironic. Anyone under, say, 35- please correct me if I’m wrong.

  • carrie

    I would also like to point out that this article goes against the principles and goals of this website:

    “The scientific inconsistency and dubious morality of
    any claim by one gender to describe the state, condition,
    needs, experiences, or the value of the other gender”

    That is EXACTLY what Paul Elam is doing in this piece. He is essentially saying that the sexual feelings many women experience as they age are completely INVALID, because men disagree! Great scientific thinking there! Also, the article and comments are assigning a defininte (negative) value to women because they’re ugly and can no longer bear children. I don’t see this same thinking applied to men, who are valued (positively) for their careers and life experience as they age and mature.

    I guess I would be crucified if I were to suggest that this “sexual peak” is at least indirectly related to the self confidence that more life experience brings? After all, I think someone on here mentined that the brain is our biggest sexual organ- I don’t think it’s incorect to presume that the most self confident people- men or women, young or old- are frequently more sexually desirable than their insecure counterparts.

  • Squiggy

    Carrie – you see exactly what you want to see. “Dialoguing” with someone of your limited experience is a waste of time.

    We don’t hate women, as you seem to think. Although if you get the idea we hate feminists (who hate men), you’re much closer.

    Go tell your “women’s studies” professors you think they’re wrong (about anything) and you’ll see what men have to deal with on a daily basis.

    Hopefully you’ll grow up one day (twenty-three is a child, deal with it) and you won’t be one of those bitter hags the article speaks of. It’s completely up to you, and it won’t be a man’s fault however you turn out.

  • carrie

    Where did I say that the men on this site hate women? Demeaning and devaluing, yes, but I never used the word hate. For someone with so much more life experience than I, it would do you credit if you learned how to read and how not to project your own expectations and agenda onto my comments. I’m not seeing what I want to see; I’m trying to interpret the comments on here, and this is what I think they’re saying. Anyone is free to correct me if he or she wishes.

    I understand that you think feminists are misguided and wrong, but I never said I was a feminist; I’m simply trying to defend the women this article attacks. Just as questioning women’s thinking doesn’t mean one hates women, questioning men’s thinking doesn’t mean one hates men. YOU are seeing what YOU want to see, which is that anyone who dares to call out men on a double standard is a “bitter old hag” who hates them.

    Speaking of, the phrase “bitter old hag” is an interesting one; no where in the article does Paul Elam use that phrase. My interpretation of his thesis is that older women should “learn to value their own accomplishments” more than their allegedly fading sexual relevancy. YOU are the one who now called them “bitter old hags”.

    I was inclined to believe you when you said that the men on this site don’t hate women. But the fact that I can’t even defend them without being called a “bitter old hag”- an incredibly hateful term- makes me doubtful.

    Oh, by the way, comparing old women to cows is another GREAT way to show that you respect women and don’t hate them.

    I don’t have a “women’s studies” agenda; I’m just rrying to understand the thinking on this site.

  • julie

    Carrie, I wrote a couple of comments on this thread and can see where you are coming from – Point taken IMO. Yet, over the past few years I’ve also read other articles and/or comments by Paul Elam, Squiggy and other men who visit this site, and overall I’m extremely impressed with what’s on offer here.

    I suspect no site is perfect and I’d probably think there was something wrong with men here if they didn’t vent about women now and then … especially when I learn what they’re up against and been through. Maybe you are one of those fair females who looks around and gives positive feedback if deserved equally to negative feedback if deserved. Here’s hoping. ;)

  • Squiggy

    I was inclined to believe you when you said that the men on this site don’t hate women. But the fact that I can’t even defend them without being called a “bitter old hag”- an incredibly hateful term- makes me doubtful.

    Is English your second language? Read it again – I didn’t call you a hag (and for that matter, I didn’t even use the word “old”).

    I give up. You have a typical leftist mind – full of preconceived notions, and absolutely closed. You people absolutely won’t listen to anyone. You just take bits of what they said and use it for ammo.

    Enjoy your short, angry life. Buh bye.

  • carrie

    You didn’t directly call me a hag; you implied that I will grow up to be one. You didn’t use the word ‘old’, but “Hag” is a word for an ugly old woman. Or at least according to the dictionary and popular useage.

    In all fairness, I feel like I’m raising valid points, which you won’t-or can’t- address or correct. Basically your defense is to a) call me names and b) say it’s no use arguing with me because I have a “closed mind”. The definition of an open mind is one that’s open to new ideas. I am certainly open to some of the ideas and viewpoints on this site, such as the criticism of our court system that often, unfairly, gives women precedence over child custody than men. On the other hand, you won’t even consider talking to me because you automatically assume I’m a leftist feminist, and therefore everything I know and think is wrong. I actually stated in my comments that I’m perfectly open to corrections to any of my ideas. Is that closed minded or open minded of me? I recognize that nothing is completely black or white; not every movement, party, group, or school of thought is going to be 100% correct or incorrect in its thinking or values.

    Finally, you said to “enjoy [my] short, angry life”. Just because I criticize an article I disagree with on the internet means I’m an angry person? I assume you’re implying that feminists who criticize male thinking are angry. Yet, here is a whole website built on criticizing female/ feminist thinking, and this means- that men aren’t angry when they criticize? Or that it’s perfectly ok for men to be angry at what they percieve as a social injustice, but not for women?

    I’m not angry. In fact, I would say that I enjoy life. I love my family and my friends. I’m not “angry” at men as a gender, nor do I believe that women are superior. And I’m puzzled why engaging in critical thinking should automatically imply these things.

    Maybe it’s you who should enjoy your short, angry life.

  • Squiggy

    I assume you’re implying that feminists who criticize male thinking are angry.

    Well, no. But feminists who are male-hating nazi’s are angry, and obnoxious. From my observance, most feminists are either nazi’s or they’re not really feminists. Believing in equal rights doesn’t make you a feminist.

    I’m not angry. In fact, I would say that I enjoy life. I love my family and my friends. I’m not “angry” at men as a gender, nor do I believe that women are superior. And I’m puzzled why engaging in critical thinking should automatically imply these things.

    You’ve done some critical thinking? Maybe so, but it wasn’t here. I see one place where you claim Paul isn’t holding true to the website’s mission. All of your other comments are completely off-topic claims, or they’re ad-hominem attacks. And the vast majority of them are leftist talking points. Points which have been repeated ad nauseum, yet are still untrue. I’m totally sure you still believe women make seventy cents for every dollar men make. And that women have been hit hardest by the Obama depression.

  • Kris W

    Carrie the fact that your a “leftist feminist” makes you an automatic bigot. The same way a person deciding that they want to be a skinhead makes them automatically a bigot.

    It isn’t a matter of correction. There is nothing to “correct”; feminist’s have intentionally lied and sought out the total economic, political, legal dis-empowerment, as well as flat out social discrimination against boy’s, young men and grown men for the last 20 years!

    You are a member of a hate movement. How the heck do you expect the targets of the hate movement you belong to, to react to your proud declarations of bigotry?

    Members of a supremacy based ideology(when it is in power) rarely are angry. But they often have outrage when those they seek to enslave demand freedom, equality and other basic fundamental human rights.

    We will not allow bigots like you to cover up the past. Your no different than a bigot who tries to cover up and/or deny human right’s abuses.

  • carrie

    Kris W:
    Can you please quote to me where in my comments I:
    a) declare I am a leftist feminist, and or/
    b) show bigotry?

    The entire point I was trying to make was that I feel it is unfair for men to criticise women for aging when they themselves age.

    Here is a summary of my argument:
    Paul Elam: Older women can be ugly and pathetic.
    Me: Old men can be ugly and pathetic too.

    THAT’S IT.

    As a woman, I take great offence to the fact that I apparently have a “use by” date. I’m sorry if this makes me bigoted.

    Also, if anyone else is going to respond to me,could you please respond to my actual arguments and not to any assumed aspect of my life, including descriptions of why liberals and/or feminists are bad. I said NOTHING about either terms.

  • DonnieH

    @carrie: “So all women who aspire to be rich DON’T want:
    -to be self-sufficient
    -respect and the intellectual stimulation that comes with a good career
    -nice house, clothes, car, etc”

    No. They aspire to gain access to richer, higher status men in the delusion that their careers will make them more attractive to those men. It won’t. I thought I’d made that clear. The men will choose younger, more fertile women. There is little on this Earth more pathetic than a barren woman who purchases her own finery in an attempt to substitute for her lack of a husband and children, but, hey, if that fancy handbag will make you feel better about yourself- go for it!

    @carriie: “The entire point I was trying to make was that I feel it is unfair for men to criticise women for aging when they themselves age.”

    No one is criticising women for aging. Merely pointing out the dimishment of their sexual desirability. This should be cause for great celebration among older women because they have been complaining that men (used to) look at them as sex objects for as long as I can remember. Now that these women have grown or matured out of the erotic view of most men, they seem consumed with re-gaining their lost sexual status, but there’s just no substitute for youth, is there? You didn’t want men to look at you like a sex object? Congratulations!

    @carrie: “I’m 50, and I’m married to someone who’s 50, I would hope I would have the self awareness to realize: I don’t look like I did when I was 23, and neither does my partner.”

    Yes, well, the thing is that, with surprisingly little effort, he will be able to cavort with 23 year olds pretty much any time he wants. But by then he may have matured to prefer women in their late 20′s to early 30′s. Don’t beleive it? Ask Christie Brinkley (and she’s one of the better looking older women around, IMHO).

    @carrie: “I feel like I’m raising valid points, which you won’t-or can’t- address or correct”

    Feeeeeling you’re raising valid points isn’t the same as raising them, now is it?

    Perhaps you missed this part at the end of Paul’s article: “When women collectively quit worrying about sexual primacy and start focusing on their own innate human potential, when they learn to value their own accomplishments more than they value what they can sexually manipulate out of men, the plastic surgeons will be out of business and their bad self esteem, rather than their personal significance, will be facing expiration.”

  • carrie

    Donnie H: Thank you for at least addressing my points.

    “There is little on this Earth more pathetic than a barren woman who purchases her own finery in an attempt to substitute for her lack of a husband and children…”

    I would argue that there is little on this earth more pathetic than an old man hitting on a girl young enough to be his daughter or granddaughter- but, to each his own.

    There are two things about your thinking that bother me. The first is the assumption that all women basically want is a man and children. Is this correct?
    “They aspire to gain access to richer, higher status men in the delusion that their careers will make them more attractive to those men”.
    So why do women even bother going to college, graduate school, etc if all they really want is to get married?

    The second : “When women collectively quit worrying about sexual primacy and start focusing on their own innate human potential, when they learn to value their own accomplishment…” So here Elam is saying that women who have allegedly outlived their sexual relevancy should focus on intellectual accomplishments… like a career? Which you just said was pathetic? I’m confused.

  • http://shatterdmen.com/ Shatteredmen

    @ julie “I suspect no site is perfect and I’d probably think there was something wrong with men here if they didn’t vent about women now and then … especially when I learn what they’re up against and been through.”

    Thank you Julie. I have long noticed that anytime men voice that men are battered in domestic violence also we are called whinny little angry boys. I saw this on a CNN message board on domestic violence when three men “DARED” to challenge three women who were quoting all the gender feminist stats on domestic violence using very biased sources while the three men were using solid unbiased sources. The three of us (yes, I was one of them) were called the three musketeers who were extremely violent. My wife reminded me that the three musketeers fought for justice for ALL and that she would rather me be a musketeer than one of the “Three Stooges” I would love to have seen their reaction to that but the message board on this was taken off line shortly after I posted it.

    This does show what men face when we have legitimate complains such as not having equal protection under the law due to the Violence Against Women act or actually having equal access to health care and then being accused of avoiding doctors and told that is why men die earlier.

    There are literally dozens of ways most of us can show major double standards that if we dare say anything, we are often accused of hating women or worse.

    Thank You so much for your comments Julie because so often we do need women to speak up for us since we would only be called bitter, angry violent men just for wanting to be recognized.

  • http://shatterdmen.com/ Shatteredmen

    1. @ carrie
    “In one of your earlier comments you put the possibility of blame of a man’s ED on his wife’s lack of sexual interest.”

    First, I am not “blaming” anyone but I am suggesting it as one possible cause. Contrary to feminist propaganda, most men are not rapist, in fact very few are and most men are not looking to hop into bed with any female who is willing and I contend that any woman who does think so is either a legend in her own mind or it is wishful thinking.

    Carrie, although both men and women have each of the basic needs that I am about to say, men overall have more of a need to be “significant” By this, I mean that men want to leave their stamp on the world, to say “I have been here” and to know they have made a positive impact on some people. No it does not have to be the world, but their little corner of the world….their home. Women need to feel secure, to know their needs will be met especially as they get older. Oh our governments have made it a point to assure this for women but as they do, more men pay the price as their feelings of significances is greatly dismissed. Older men in need however are often put out to pasture since there is a lack of convenient icebergs to put them on.

    You said “ED is typically attributed to aging and older men” Yes often there are physical reasons for this but there are tens of thousands of men in their 80′s and 90′s who are active without that blue pill. It all depends on if they have a willing partner to be active with.

    Yes you may be right, older men may attracted to younger women but I highly doubt it is “only attracted to them” I think it may well be that these younger women pay more attention to them and even if it is because these younger women know these men are financially stable, it may be that is the reason these women show interest in them but it may well be the price these men are willing to pay as I do admit it is often a status simple for them.
    ” everyone knows how disgusting older women are!” Well my friend, all we have to do is show ONE man who do not think these older women are disgusting and I am one that does not think so, nor am I “turned on” by younger women. Since the beginning of the year, I have had to have some “personally” medical attention for some medical problems. One was a bladder biopsy and I have had to undress from the waist down for about a dozen different women several of who had to touch areas I only want my wife to touch. Never once did I become “excited” nor did I “want” them even though a few were attractive young ladies who had to touch me in personal areas so do NOT lump all men into one category because your feminist friends have done so. I also know many men who feel the same way I do. I doubt any of them saw me in that way although I do know that a few of these women were interested in what they say as when I was in the hospital for a week and could not stand up without help, a few of the women’s eyes dropped to a certain area of my body as soon as the gown I was wearing dropped to the floor but rather than thinking these women were perverts as would have been thought about if the genders were reversed, I think it was only human nature to look at any area that is normally covered but is suddenly exposed.

    That Carrie, is a part of human nature and a man’s interest in the female body is GOD’s way of making sure the human race is carried on.

    So Yes Carrie, I do think a man’s wife’s lack of interest in sex can and often does lead to E.D. but that does not mean that every man that has it want to hop in bed with another woman just because she if female.

  • http://shatterdmen.com/ Shatteredmen

    @ carrie Where did I say that the men on this site hate women?

    Carrie, often it does not have to be said outright, it can be implied and anyone that can read “double speak” will know exactly what you mean. Most of the men here have gotten use to being called women haters simply for standing up for men.

  • http://shatterdmen.com/ Shatteredmen

    @ Squiggy “Yes, Carrie. Aging women should be put out to pasture. And angry, bitter, holier-than-thou women should be sent to the slaughterhouse.”

    Squiggy, we must NOT allow ourselves to become the enemy we detest. If we lower our standards to theirs, we become just like them and I am sure you do not want that. Our enemy is not men, women or anyone else but the ideologies they support. We can best overcome this by educating those with those ideologies to show them that their ideals are false and will cause more harm to them in the long run. Our ministry for example has dozens of women in it, many of whom admit that before they came to Shattered Men, they hated all men but now they are firm supporters of the men who come bruised and often literally bleeding for help. One is now a moderator in our group and she often talks to men at her work place that she finds are victims of domestic violence and another who recently passed away opened her home to provide shelter for an abused man. None of this would have happened if we did not educate these women who started out hating men.

    Also to be honest, I think even the gender feminist are simply being used but they are too dumb to realize it:

    http://shatterdmen.com/Bitter.htm

  • Squiggy

    I would argue that there is little on this earth more pathetic than an old man hitting on a girl young enough to be his daughter or granddaughter- but, to each his own.

    Is that as pathetic as you implying someone here said that?

    Stop making crap up, and go away troll.

  • Alice

    Shatteredman:
    being used but they are too dumb to realize it:

    They definitely are.
    ~~~~~

    Carrie:
    The first is the assumption that all women basically want is a man and children. Is this correct?

    I thought people in general wanted families. *shrugs*

    ~~~~~
    Donnie H:
    Yes, well, the thing is that, with surprisingly little effort, he will be able to cavort with 23 year olds pretty much any time he wants. But by then he may have matured to prefer women in their late 20?s to early 30?s. Don’t beleive it? Ask Christie Brinkley (and she’s one of the better looking older women around, IMHO).

    Yep, definitely true in my experience. Not only thought but quite a few older guys thinks its ok to cavort with younger women as long as all the equipment works.

    And Christie’s husband’s mistress was 17/18 if I remember correctly.

    ~~~~
    Shatteredman:

    Yes you may be right, older men may attracted to younger women but I highly doubt it is “only attracted to them” I think it may well be that these younger women pay more attention to them and even if it is because these younger women know these men are financially stable, it may be that is the reason these women show interest in them but it may well be the price these men are willing to pay as I do admit it is often a status simple for them.

    (Some insight from a younger girl who dates older men-may be somewhat offtopic)
    I’ll admit part of the attraction to older men is that they are financially stable. I am not chemically neutering myself with birth control so there is a risk I can become pregnant every single month. I can see how women who date their “equals” esp in my age range and subsequently become pregnant struggle just to get the basics. It also seems like guys in my age group dont want to settle down now, but I would like to within a few years.

    Also, in my experience older men are just more likely to approach me for dates. It seems to me guys get bolder as they get older. I’m more traditional so the guys staring at me but saying nothing to me (usually younger ones) just doesn’t appeal to me sexually.

  • DonnieH

    @carrie: “like a career? Which you just said was pathetic? I’m confused.”

    That’s because you appear to have very low reading comprehension, or low native intellect, or both.

    @carrie: “I would argue that there is little on this earth more pathetic than an old man hitting on a girl young enough to be his daughter or granddaughter- but, to each his own.”

    I think a better analogy would be a man bragging about not needing a woman for sex because he has access to lots of free Internet porn- both are failures at a primary human relationship, whereas in your example they are not.

    @carrie: “The first is the assumption that all women basically want is a man and children. Is this correct?”

    No, that is not correct. Take a few deep breaths and read what I wrote again, but this time try to actively block your preconceived notions about what it is you think I’m saying.

    @carrie: “So why do women even bother going to college, graduate school, etc if all they really want is to get married?”

    This is a good example of that reading comprehension thingy: “They aspire to gain access to richer, higher status men”. This option is becoming less viable as women increasingly outnumber men at US colleges (nearly 2:1). The first order effect is that many women won’t be able to pair up, and a second order effect is that women who get a date often find that the man has no interest or incentive in committing to a relationship. The time-honored “MRS” degree is pretty much unavailable.

    Look, you’re young. You’ve still got a decade or so before your Wile E. Coyote moment. But you now have knowledge that many of your older sisters didn’t have.

    I think it’s less a question of choices than it is a question of priorities. My mom had a college degree (as did her sisters) back in the 40’s, but she didn’t let that get in the way of having a family, which was what she said was the most important thing to her in her life. She pursued her career after us kids were in school full time.

    My sisters all have college degrees and they’re all train wrecks. Two are divorced (one perpetually angry, the other perpetually depressed) and one’s an archetypical cat lady. It’s your life, do what you want. Why should I care? But you will never have better chances of attracting and securing the attentions and affections of a man suitable for marriage and family than you have right now, so if that’s something you think you might desire in your life, you may want to consider some of the information in this thread and take a good look around. Hey, if you want to have sex with a turkey baster when your 40, that path is well worn. Go for it.

  • VVV

    N O This is such BULLSHIT if I ever heard it!!! I am 24 and just now getting comfortable enough to have a real sex drive!!! In essence, you have no idea what you are talking about dude because you are a man!!! Ha ha ha .. I believe that women do hit their optimum sex drive around thirty, and may begin to sooner, but I am sure as f*ck hoping that I am not going d own hill from here because I just got to the first summit!!! I think that you as a man are ashamed to admit that your sex drive only lessens with age, while women’s sex drives get greater!!! Now, I am not saying that women may not peak in their thirties and then it go down from there… but all I am saying is that I have come a long way and am just getting started!!

  • Skeptik

    VVV, you’ve missed the point entirely.
    Sure you may think you’ll be ****ing night and day from here on until you snuff it.
    Although I seriously doubt that. Age catches up with everyone.
    Your sex drive as a woman also means your ability to conceive.
    There’s no argument that from age 30 onwards that lessens with each menstrual cycle until usually by your late thirties/early forties you’re egg-less.






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